Sneak Peek Sony PMW-100 XDCAM 50Mbps Camera | Cinescopophilia Camera Gear Rigs and News for Filmmakers (http://cinescopophilia.com/sneak-peek-sony-pmw-100-xdcam-50mbps-camera/)

Another new camera from Sony! This time it's the new XDCAM addition, the Sony PMW-100!

"Sony have more goodies coming out of the bag with the PMW-100 XDCAM camcoder. Expect the Sony 1/3″ chip PMW-100 XDCAM to record 50Mbps via a HD422 codec to solid state memory devices like SD cards, SxS and to the new XQD card format. The Sony PMW-100 has switchable recording at HD422 50Mbps, HD420 35, and DVCAM 25Mbps. Recording also has a 15 second pre-recording cache. The Sony PMW-100 camera comes with all the extras you would expect from camcorders like dual XLR inputs a zoom rocker, Timecode, Genlock & SDI, Zebra, Peaking, Gain, Exposure, Picture Profile etc. The camera lens is a fixed 10x zoom."

* Switchable codecs up to 50Mbps 4:2:2

* Records to SD, SxS and XQD cards

* 1/3" chip

hmm looks like a direct competitor for the canon xf 105

(meant xf 105 not 100)

That's a really sharp camera! Sony's on a roll today - that's the third camera announced!

Very nice!
Wonder if we'll see some new life in the EX1/EX3 line soon.

hmm looks like a direct competitor for the canon xf 100

I think the XF105 with the HD-SDi and genloc. Be interesting to see if Sony bring out the Prosumer version that they usually do. No genloc, no SxS etc then it would be another interesting product in the lineup. Replacing the NX5 AX2000 in the lineup. Though it is not as user capable as the NX5U as there is only a single lens ring and just 10 times zoom that makes it look like another variant on the top consumer model PJ/CX 760.

Ron Evans

Ron is quite correct, this is a direct competitor to the Canon XF105, not the XF100.

Hmmm, you say how about an NXCAM version that takes on the XF100...? Interesting!

So why couldn't Sony put this codec into a bigger camera. Oh, say, the F3 and FS700?

But hmm...maybe an EX5?

I have got used to shooting with my NX5U BUT the video image is noisy compared to my CX700, I would like 60P and the ability to use some of the nice consumer features on the other Sony's I have like "spot focus" etc. Sort of dumb since the NX5U has a touch LCD but is not used for any of these useful features.

I expect we will see more Sony announcements over the next week. Exciting !!!

Ron Evans

But hmm...maybe an EX5?

oh, that would be awesome!

This is the Sony camera of the day that has peaked my interest the most. And mostly because I feel like it might mean a new EX1 / EX3 series camera is close to being announced.

If this is Sony's response to the XF105, will they update the EX1 to compete even more with the XF305?

It is really dumb business if Sony does not release a major update to the EX1r and EX3. Just look at how many current EX1/3 owners keep asking for an updated model, which means many of us are looking to *upgrade* our existing cameras, which means MORE sales for Sony. Even though the XF300/305 are not *better* in many aspects than the EX1/3, these Canons are selling at a lower price and taking away many possible sales from Sony with many preferring the 50Mb/s.

With the 2 new cameras announced today, it finally seems that Sony is not being overly protective of its high end cameras - which is GREAT!

Although a 3 chip 1/2inch mpeg2 50mbits is the missing link in the lineup, I don't think it will materialize soon. With the s35 format craze, maybe there isn't a market for them anymore, especially the interchangeable lens variant. Such a camera will also hurt the sales of the 320 and 350, unless of course they upgrade simultaneously.
it could turn out as a 3 chip 1/3 50mbit camera instead, a direct competion to XF300/305 and 250 and more competitive priced than a 1/2 camera.

XQD in the announcement is promising. We could see firmware updates to support XQD for the EX1/EX1R/EX3 soon.

The nanoFlash fills the hole that the lack of 4:2:2 in the current EX series has left for some people.

Any information on the price?

The nanoFlash fills the hole that the lack of 4:2:2 in the current EX series has left for some people.

Yeah, but I hate adding more attachments to a camera, especially one that has to be powered. That's one of the reasons I picked the XF305 over the EX1R/3 - the 50mbps, 4:2:2 codec.

This could be a very very interesting NAB.

I have a funny feeling that an EX5 will not appear. I do not know why but I have a feeling the shoulder mount design has been abandoned.

Unfortunately I don't think we will see any developments to the EX1/3 cameras at NAB. Even though the new PMW-100 seems to be a very competent addition to the XDCAM series it is not an alternative to the EX1 lacking many of the professional features of the EX1/3 cameras.

On the other hand you get 50Mbs/4:2:2 and four channels of 24 bit audio recording with the PMW-100!

Wouldn't it have been quite fantastic with Mk3 versions of the EX1/3 with 50Mbs codec, 4-channel audio and maybe slightly improved sensors!?

Wouldn't it have been quite fantastic with Mk3 versions of the EX1/3 with 50Mbs codec, 4-channel audio and maybe slightly improved sensors!?

Yup. It would seem to be the logical evolution of the EX1/3 line.

It should be a great NAB at the Sony booth. I now expect that Sony will eventually be adding 50mbps to the EX1 and EX3 line - but who knows?

This is the kind of cam I am very interested in.

waiting on pricing...

This is the kind of cam I am very interested in.

waiting on pricing...

About 4.000 Euros + VAT

40-400 lens, bummer.

Spec page is up on Sony germany: http://www.sony.de/biz/product/xdcamcamcorders/pmw-100/technicalspecs

I think this round of Sony announcements is a strong indicator of where the current market interest is.

On the one side there's demand for small ENG camera with deep DOF and Broadcast acceptable codec.
On the other side is an extremely flexible large sensor cameras with lots of DOF control (shallow DOF) and slow motion.

I'd guess that the demand for 1/2" and 2/3" sensors are in decline (relatively speaking) given large sensor DOF control and small sensor deep DOF portable quick use quick turnaround.

My own guess is that for the EX1 and EX3 it may be a slow fade to black although some of us might still hope for eventual improvements in that line.

No 1080 50/60p probably because it's not supported by the Mpeg2 codec (same as Canon's cams).

I was ALL excited until I read those specs and noted:

40 - 400mm 35 equiv - not wide enough, not enough zoom on far end (need something like the NX5 range)
No 1080 60p - total bummer. Just fix the codec! 30P is just not fast enough to smoothly capture action. (and no possibility of a bit of slo-mo in post)

Did not see an expanded focus button.

Really liked the large, high-res LCD, placement is perfect.

WHY CAN'T ANY MANU BUILD A CAM I CAN USE?!? arrrrgggh. Been buying and testing and returning since October 2011. (rejected NX70, NX5, VG20) I'm sick of this ...

Still hoping for a successor to the NX5 - same features, same lens, AVCHD 2.0 codec, bigger LCD, true 1080 res (1000 TV lines - the NX5 does not have this and the footage is noticeably blurry as a result).

But I'm doubting it is going to happen. NAB is just two weeks away, Sony would have leaked it by now.

Might have to abandon Sony for Panny AC160 ... but it is a tank, lacks expanded focus, and the Panny pro support people seem clueless when I call them.

(sob)

Steve

No 1080 50/60p probably because it's not supported by the Mpeg2 codec (same as Canon's cams).

This is absolutely correct.

Whenever you see XDCAM, NXCAM, AVCCAM, AVCHD or Canon XF --
and a couple other badges -- you will know right away that it does NOT
have 1080p60. Because none of those codecs currently support 1080p60.

Wait a minute, why is there only ONE CHIP?

Sony : PMW-100 (PMW100) : Technical Specifications : United Kingdom (http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/product/xdcamcamcorders/pmw-100/technicalspecs)

Am I missing something? I understand it will bring the cost down, but won't this adversly affect picture quality?

Please, someone correct my thinking and tell me this will still replace my EX3...

Andrew

This is absolutely correct.

Whenever you see XDCAM, NXCAM, AVCCAM, AVCHD or Canon XF --
and a couple other badges -- you will know right away that it does NOT
have 1080p60. Because none of those codecs currently support 1080p60.

But my FS100 shoots 1080/60P. So does the NX70.

This is absolutely correct.

Whenever you see XDCAM, NXCAM, AVCCAM, AVCHD or Canon XF --
and a couple other badges -- you will know right away that it does NOT
have 1080p60. Because none of those codecs currently support 1080p60.

Chris,
Doesn't the new FS700 record 1920x1080 at 60p? Is it still considered an NXCAM or are they doing something different with the codec?

(EDIT: I just re-read the specs and it looks like it will OUTPUT 60p but only record 60i?)

Andrew

For the first year I had my NX5U I was a little dissapointed. It was definately better than my FX-1 but the SR11 and XR500 seemed to have a much sharper image with less noise. I have since fine tuned the NX5 and it is now just as good but still has more noise. The stock NX5U's seems to have both macro focus ON and also anti flicker ON both degrade the picture at least as far as my NX5U experience to where the consumer cams were much better. I have also set up picture profiles and it now does not look anything like the stock NX5U picture. If you just used a NX5U in a test without fine tuning then it does not perform well at all. In full auto it performs poorly against the consumer cameras. Auto focus is slow and not accurate, black level is too high, colour is low etc etc. Gives plenty of room for post adjustments but not a simple comparison.

My set up now matches very well with the EX3 and also does look better than the consumer cams ( SR11, XR500 and CX700 ) Gamma set, black level, colour detail etc etc. very different picture. Focus is HYPER critical. I still would like Spot ( touch ) focus like the consumer cams( NX5U has the consumer touch screen) and too would like 60P that I now shoot all the time with the CX700. The features of the NX30 look really atractive as a second camera to the NX5 being able to sync timecode,able to shoot 1280x720P60, PCM audio etc etc. I think it will replace my CX700. If 422 output is needed one can always use a Ninja etc as I think live output from all these cameras is likely 422 anyway. May be a better choice than the PMW-100

I share the view that Sony have all the bits I would like . They just don't have it in a single camera !!! My wish is still for a NX5 "plus" with Exmor-R sensors( lower noise level), full touch screen control, 60P can't think of much else it would need for me.

Ron Evans

Wait a minute, why is there only ONE CHIP?

Sony : PMW-100 (PMW100) : Technical Specifications : United Kingdom (http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/product/xdcamcamcorders/pmw-100/technicalspecs)


Please, someone correct my thinking and tell me this will still replace my EX3...

Andrew

Sorry man. Single chip. Single ring. Fixed lens.There's no way this will replace your EX3 unless you're looking for a big change. They are drastically different cameras. The PMW-100 is just a foreshadowing of what may replace your EX3.

But my FS100 shoots 1080/60P. So does the NX70.

They do? If so, then I stand corrected, thank you.

From where I sit, it's damn difficult to keep up with everything that's going on.

Sorry man. Single chip. Single ring. Fixed lens.There's no way this will replace your EX3 unless you're looking for a big change. They are drastically different cameras. The PMW-100 is just a foreshadowing of what may replace your EX3.

SIGH.

I had my doubts when I read the lens was only a x10.
I would really love a 50Mbs camera with the NX5/Z5 G lens.
...and 1/2" or larger chips
...and 2 card slots
...and three rings
and 2 screw tripod mount
and removable zoom rocker (like the FS100)
and, and, and...

Chris,
Doesn't the new FS700 record 1920x1080 at 60p? Is it still considered an NXCAM or are they doing something different with the codec?



The AVCHD 2.0 spec, which is supported by quite a few Sony NXCAM models (NX70, FS100 , FS700) supports 1080 50/60p in the "PS" mode with a max bit rate of 28 Mbps.

Panny is supposedly going to add that mode to the AC130 and AC160 "soon".

More info about the mode here:
AVCHD INFORMATION WEB SITE (http://www.avchd-info.org/)

So yes, the cameras will record to that mode, but the HDMI / HD-SDI output is still limited to 1080 30p "immersed" in 1080 60i. (I'm oversimplifying a bit).

The FS700 goes beyond the AVCHD 2.0 with some proprietary overcranking. It will give full 1080 slow-mo, but only in bursts of 10 seconds or so. But, considering the mucho overcranking, the result will be nearly a minute of smooth, beautiful slo-mo.

But, I'm a dinosaur that hates shallow DoF (and does not want to shoot at F16 to avoid it).

So, I was really hoping for an NX5 2.0.

Steve

@Ron Evans who wrote: "I share the view that Sony have all the bits I would like . They just don't have it in a single camera !!! My wish is still for a NX5 "plus" with Exmor-R sensors( lower noise level), full touch screen control, 60P can't think of much else it would need for me."

I can't agree more. I'm holding off on jumping ship from Sony to Panny until NAB, hoping, desperately hoping for the "new NX5" ... But the NX5, despite the fact that your tweaks DO result in a much better image, is still not a full 1080 "1000 TV lines" cam. Have a look at the details of the spec , and the design of the sensor, the element count. It is not quite as sharp as newer cams.

Adam Wilt of ProVideoCoalition mentions this here:
http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/aadams/story/cameras_now_its_rocket_science/

"...Sonys? It’s interesting to note that at least some of the 1/3” Sonys aren’t quite full-res; the NX5 uses “ClearVid” diagonal-array sensors that give very good resolution, but it’s not quite full HD. You may have to move up to the 1/2” EX1/EX3 line before you get an honest 1920x1080 photosites behind the lens."

Waaah! I want a big zoom, big glass up front, fixed lens (interchanageable is BAD here in the dusty desert), smallish sensor for deep DoF, 422 10-bit HDMI output, AVCHD 2.0 for the 1080 60p, silky zoom rocker, expanded focus (not just stupid peaking which can fool you and blow shots), THREE rings (not a stupid selectable ring), 4.0" LCD ON THE HANDLE out of the way. , SDXC slots with relay or dual record. Why can't I have what I want? WAAAAHhhh!

They do? If so, then I stand corrected, thank you.

From where I sit, it's damn difficult to keep up with everything that's going on.

Yeap, they do. Even my lowly VG20 shoots in 1920x1080 at 60p.

Sure does! Still best bang for the buck going too...

(secretly waiting for FS100 prices to drop)

none of those codecs currently support 1080p60.

It's correct that no MPEG2 codec supports 1080p50/60, so we won't see it in XDCAM or Canon XF cameras. Moreover, no P2 camcorder has this format (it might be possible with future P2 cams). But NXCAM and AVCCAM use AVCHD, which is MPEG4, and 1080p50/60 is part of the relatively new standard "AVCHD 2.0". That's why some of these Sony and Panasonic camcorders are capable of shooting 1080p50/60.

Panny is supposedly going to add that mode to the AC130 and AC160 "soon".

Well, the AC160 already shoots 1080p50/60 from the first day on, but without sound. So the upcoming new firmware will "only" add sound to the pictures. The AC130 can't shoot it now and will not get new firmware, so no way to work in 1080p50/60 with this camera. That's at least what Panasonic Broadcast told us some weeks ago.

The NX5 sensor is not 1920x1080 true. Actual sensors in each chip are 960x540 depending on how one looks at the array. The 540 are on 1080 alternating lines. But the interpolated resolution is more than the sensor count for sure and will likely vary depending on the subject matter/exposure as the interpolating algorithm uses information from surrounding sensors to interpolate the full 1920x1080 pixels. The surrounding sensor outputs need to be significantly different for the algorithm to work. I think the main issue with the NX5 sensors is they are old technology and that may also apply to the DSP associated with them. Focus is thus also important as a slightly out of focus shot does not give the information needed by the interpolating algorithm. In other words there is a multiplier on how bad the image resolution appears to be for a slightly out of focus shot. Likewise under exposing or over exposing the shot also makes this process worse. Now I know my NX5U better I can certainly make it look good and know that in " full auto" its awful in comparison to my CX700 !!! All my uses for the NX5U are in the theatre, on a tripod, so I can take the time to get focus absolutely spot on and when this is the case it can intercut with an EX3 with no problems. When set up this way the NX5U does give a better picture than the CX700 or my XR500 which seem to lack the depth of image that the NX5U or EX3 give to the shot.

Ron Evans

Looks like it uses the same VCL-HG0737K .7X wide angle lens designed for the HD1000U.

The NX5 sensor is not 1920x1080 true. Actual sensors in each chip are 960x540 depending on how one looks at the array. The 540 are on 1080 alternating lines. But the interpolated resolution is more than the sensor count

Ron Evans

Hi Ron, I'm not disputing any of this, and your explanation is cogent and well-worded. And although I grew tired of having to tweak the NX5 image and do all you described to get it even close to the IQ of my little CX550V, the NX5 is a very solid cam with silky controls and a lot to love. One other thing that I did not like was the tiny 3.2" LCD that did not have as good a display as the other Sont 3.5" LCDs.

The old math guy in me can't help thinking about Nyquist's Theorem, though. I suspect that is partly the reason that cams with sensors with more elements will always have higher resolution (assuming similar DSPs, lenses, etc.) than cams that rely on interpolation with fewer elements. More raw data will win out against interpolation, no matter how fancy the algorithm.

I really like the Sony Exmor-R tech with the Bionz processor. So, this little PMW-100 out to be sharper and have better low-light performance than the NX5 - but it will not have the same telephoto performance, and no matter how good the chip, more glass up front = more light gathering power.

8 days till NAB 2012 - still holding out hope for a New NX5 ... wish I could afford to go!

Steve

Absolutely agree Steve. One reason given for having larger sensors is better low light performance only problem is all my little Sony's have better low light performance than the NX5U !!! Like I said before the weakness in the NX5U are the sensors and I would like 60P and the other touch features of the smaller Sony cams.
Still not sure about the PMW-100. Being suspicious of Sony even though ALL my cameras are Sony , I feel the PMW-100 is another variant on the consumer line with the PMW codecs. Now a 1/2" single sensor in a NX5 body would be something else !!!

Wonder if Sony has anything else to show in the next few weeks.

Ron Evans

Sony product brochure courtesy of SlashCam:

http://www.slashcam.de/files/PMW-100_Broschuere.pdf

Has some good details, confirms there is expanded focus and that SD cards can be used if you buy a SxS to SD adapter.

I'm really torn - the ergonomics of this cam look great, has some interesting features such as frame recording, which, if it can be combined with the interval recording *undercranking* will produce much better fast motion than other methods where each interval must contain enough frames for the Long GoP thing...

But I really like 1080 60p! (sob)

Steve

Has full 1920x1080 sensor but like you, wish the rest of the features were like the NX30. Maybe that sensor in the NX5U !!!

Ron Evans

According to the literature it's a single sensor with 1920 x 1080 pixels which is very disappointing as this means bayer or clear-vid, either way the resolution is likely to be some way below that of an EX1 or EX3.

Yeap, they do. Even my lowly VG20 shoots in 1920x1080 at 60p.

Not to mention even some of the Sony PS cams do... TX100v/200, HX100v/200v, HX9 & whatever the replacements for that one are...

Actually 1080/60p is pretty impressive from the TX100 considering it's just a point and shoot full auto proposition!

Pretty much any higher end new release Sony has 60p, the new Alphas also have 24p, along with 60p. I believe the NEX cameras do as well.

60p has it's attractions, there's a definite "crispness" about it over 60i. Definite "being there" feeling when played back on a device that can properly handle it, and you can stop and freeze a frame in time...

According to the literature it's a single sensor with 1920 x 1080 pixels which is very disappointing as this means bayer or clear-vid, either way the resolution is likely to be some way below that of an EX1 or EX3.

It says effective so no way of knowing if that is the real sensor or after interpolation. Same issue with the NX30 which says 6650k gross 6140k actual, whatever that means !!! That's about 3 times 1920x1080. Be interesting to see how these cameras compare. On the surface I think the NX30 with a Nanoflash may be a better deal !!!

Ron Evans

Not to mention even some of the Sony PS cams do... TX100v/200, HX100v/200v, HX9 & whatever the replacements for that one are...

Actually 1080/60p is pretty impressive from the TX100 considering it's just a point and shoot full auto proposition!

Pretty much any higher end new release Sony has 60p, the new Alphas also have 24p, along with 60p. I believe the NEX cameras do as well.

60p has it's attractions, there's a definite "crispness" about it over 60i. Definite "being there" feeling when played back on a device that can properly handle it, and you can stop and freeze a frame in time...

60p is also better when trying to show the humidity's affect on truss rods in older neck-through basses...

HA, just kidding. Good to see your post Dave. Long time no speak/type.
I might need to talk with you regarding my bass again. I figure it needs to see the guru once every 10 years or so...
:)

...and while I am excited to see Sony coming out with new cameras. I was really hoping for an EX5 or an NX5 with bigger chips or an FS100 kit with power zoom and a zoom rocker handle like the FS700.
But I guess we still have a few more days...

Effective Pixels does not normally refer to post de-bayered pixel count. I'm quite sure that if the sensor had a larger pixel count Sony would be boasting about it, after all many people will buy based on getting the largest number of whatever it is.

Even if they are combining several smaller photo sites into a single pixel, the pixel count is still too low for full resolution HD with a single sensor. So as has been suggested by others it's not unreasonable to expect resolution similar to the Canon XF100/105 which also uses a single 1920x1080 sensor.
Effective or actual pixels normally refers to the pixels actually used for image capture. It's quite normal to have extra masked pixels around the edge of the light gathering part to measure sensor noise and voltage levels to asset with noise reduction and black balance. These are not normally included in the "effective" pixel count, but often included in the gross pixel count.

Of course resolution isn't everything. Noise, contrast, dynamic range etc all combine with resolution to produce the image and if all the others are very good, then slightly lower resolution may not be that big an issue. In addition there is still a massive amount of confusion over resolution and image sharpness.

The question raised by the use of a new sensor with 1920x1080 pixels is... where is the camera with 3 of them? A full 1920 x 1080 resolution 3 chip camera, maybe EX1 replacement?

It looks a lot like the NX70's design. Why didn't Sony add the dust- and rainproof cover as with the NX70? I do still hope Sony comes with a dust- and rainproof EX1-like camera one day. If they than would even add 50 Mbps you have an ideal Camjo cam which will get popular among camera-journalists around the world.