I have been lighting several interviews, mostly through the training given on the Vortex DVD - "How to Setup, Light, & Shoot Great Looking Interviews. I've achieved great results following their training.

I have several of the Vortex training DVD's, relating to a few cameras I own and shoot with - and they've been fantastic at getting me up-and-running with great results - fast.

When I visited the Vortex Media Website (How to Set up and Shoot Awesome Interviews with LED Lights (http://www.vortexmedia.com/DVD_LEDDVD.html)), I see that they are offering a new lighting DVD. This time, instead of training for using tungsten, it's all about LED interview lighting.

Has anyone bought it and seen the LED DVD? I just ordered my copy of "How to Setup and Shoot Awesome Looking Interviews with LED Lights"t, since I am looking to replace my tungsten lighting kit with LED's. The big issue for me -- is WHAT LED's should one buy for interviews? It's a whole new ball-of-wax . . . and I don't want to make the mistake of buying a bunch of crap that doesn't work for my needs.

If the disc is anything like Vortex Media's original lighting DVD, I'll get the scoop on the best lights to buy for lighting my interviews - and how I'll get the best results with my new LED kit.

For $60.00 bucks it's cheap - especially if it steers me clear of expensive mistakes when purchasing new gear - plus it should save a ton of time by seeing exactly how Vortex sets up LED's for interviews.

If anyone has already seen the DVD, I'd love your feedback.

Thanks.

Ian

Ian, thanks for posting this. I am currently using three LitePanels lights for my interview kit. [1x1spot, 1x1 flood, SOLA ENG]
Please post a review of your thoughts about the DVD.
I might be interested in acquiring it as well.

Ed,

My copy of "How to Setup and Shoot Awesome Looking Interviews with LED Lights" just came in today's mail. Can't wait to watch it.

And yes, I would be happy to write a review of the disc. I should have some time this a.m. to watch it. If I have time later today or tomorrow, I'll send you some thoughts.

First off, the disc was shipped FAST - and it was well packaged and protected (much better than when I've ordered movies, etc. from other vendors).

Well, I had better run . . . I've got me a new LED interview lighting training video to watch!

Ian

Looking forward to your review... thanks Ian!

Hey, Ed and Chris . . .

I got my DVD copy of "How to Setup, Light, & Shoot Great Looking Interviews" in yesterday's mail. I've now watched the DVD twice, and I made some notes and wrote a review of sorts. Here goes:

I bought the first lighting DVD Vortex offered a couple of years ago - "Hot to Setup, Light, & Shoot Great Looking Interviews". The first thing I noticed is that the new LED lighting disc offers 90 minutes or training vs. the 60 minutes of training found on the their first lighting DVD. Nice! And as with the other Vortex discs I own, they are beautiful to look at. The folks at Vortex care about the look of their product. The high quality of their productions plus the great training Vortex offers is why I'm a happy repeat customer. The ONLY thing that didn't work for me were the audio "tones" or "beeps" that were used (instead of music) to usher in each new chapter on the DVD. Maybe I was tired when watching, but I like the music Vortex usually uses instead of tones. Hey, I know I'm really "sweating the small stuff" here since this really is only a minor "gripe".

I completely trusted the training as offered in the first DVD, so I promptly bought all of the lights and accessories that are recommended by Vortex for achieving television network style interview lighting for under $1,500.00. And guess what . . . the kit I assembled as recommended by Vortex worked great! I didn't doubt that it would. I was delighted that the training that was so simple to follow offered me fantastic results the very first time I used the lights according to Doug Jensen's recommendations. In fact, I've had several compliments about the "look" or my videos - leading to repeat bookings from clients. This first disc is all about lighting with tungsten lights.

The brand-new "Hot to Set Up and Shoot Awesome Interviews with LED Lights" is just what the Dr. ordered. I haven't made the leap into the world of LED just yet - except for some LED on-camera lights that I own and love. I mainly purchased "How to Set Up and Shoot Awesome Interviews with LED Lights" because the first Vortex lighting DVD was so good that I wanted to "mine" any additional tips-and-tricks that I might benefit from by viewing this new training disc. In addition, I wanted to have a good idea of what NOT to buy when going LED. At some point soon, I'll be making the jump to LED. Doug Jensen, in his first lighting DVD (tungsten lighting), takes his viewer through all of the best choices to build a lighting kit where you get the most bang for their buck. Jensen thankfully offers similar advices pertaining to LED choices here. Most lighting companies sell kits that load the buyer up with items that cost big bucks that you'll likely never use. So, at-the-end-of-the-day, the first lighting DVD saved me a ton of money in terms of how to build a great lighting kit while avoiding costly mistakes. And Jensen's training is so good, it makes good interview lighting do-able for anyone wanting great results - quickly, easily and essentially without compromise.

If you don't yet have LED lights but are considering them - get this DVD! Don't make the mistake of buying costly LED lights that you might not need or use - especially when they are more costly than their tungsten "cousins". Doug Jensen's suggestions will likely save you big bucks if you see this disc before you go shopping. Jensen's philosophy is the same for LED lighting as was his advice for tungsten on his first lighting DVD - "less is more". He shows you how to build a an LED light kit with as few lights (and stands) as you'll need to do interview lighting with beauty and artistry.

I really like the fact that the video talks to the viewer on a professional level - but it it should be easy for anyone wanting great results to comprehend. First, Doug Jensen doesn't assume that you already have LED lights, which is great. He starts from scratch and makes the case for both tungsten and LED. He presents a good argument for both. But after watching the DVD, it's clear that anyone doing interviews will clearly benefit from making the move to LED sooner-than-later. I was convinced when Jensen showed how LED lights co-operate much more than tungsten when it comes to "tweaking" the lighting and getting the exposure right more quickly - without as much work this requires with tungsten. It's apparent that lights which remain much cooler to the touch and are faster setting up and faster packing away (not having to wait for them to cool) is the way to go. And, they mix much better with daylight from a window than tungsten. What's not to like?

"Hot to Set Up and Shoot Awesome Interviews with LED Lights" is smart . . . it goes well beyond the choice of (and the setting up of) the lights. You get great advice on choosing an ideal location. And then, there's useful advice on what to do when an interview location is far from ideal. In addition, there are chapters offering excellent pointers on how to work with on-camera talent - and how to make them look their best in-front-of-the-camera.

Doug Jensen announces on the new DVD that his company, Vortex Media, is offering full LED lighting workshops which run for a single day - and more advanced training is offered over several days. These workshops will take those interested in advanced techniques beyond what can be offered in a 90 minute training DVD. I didn't find there were things left unaddressed in Jensen's "Hot to Set Up and Shoot Awesome Interviews with LED Lights. I can only assume - and hope - that the Vortex LED lighting workshops might cover more advanced setups that would include the lighting of several on-camera subjects for a two (or more camera) shoot. There is a Vortex Workshop page up, for anyone interested in their workshop series. Here's a link: Vortex Media Workshops for TV/Film Professionals (http://www.vortexmediaworkshops.com/).

One of the my favorite things about "Hot to Set Up and Shoot Awesome Interviews with LED Lights" are the multiple samples of great interview lighting in contrast to samples of mediocre and awful interview setups. Jensen shows examples of several Network news interview setups and points out where they have either excelled or have fallen "flat". This was really wise to include. As Jensen suggests, it's often difficult to explain "why" exactly a certain interview lighting setup looks artful - but when an interview is nicely lit and well composed it's something an audience will recognize as superior immediately. I agree.

I highly recommend "Hot to Set Up and Shoot Awesome Interviews with LED Lights". If good video lighting is important to you, then it's quite likely you'll be revisiting this disc as a resource to rely on for many years to come.

Ian

Excellent review, Ian!

Published at Review: “Hot to Set Up and Shoot Awesome Interviews with LED Lights” DVD from Vortex Media at DVInfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/article/production/lighting/review-hot-to-set-up-and-shoot-awesome-interviews-with-led-lights-dvd-from-vortex-media.html)

A wonderful review, Ian. Thanks. I also own Doug's original DVD on lighting interviews with tungsten, and it's been an invaluable resource through the years. I also like Doug's style... very congenial and conversational.

I, too am intrigued by the LED revolution coming to video, and will likely buy this DVD. I realize that it's a "moving target", but does Doug put a price point on the LED "kit" that he assembles for the viewer on the DVD thew way he did for on the tungsten one? Or at least a range of budget? Thanks!

Hi What kind of back light they recommend on the new DVD? I have an Ikan 1000 for Key and Ikan 500 for fill. I was thinking in a Sony HVLLBPB. what do you think?

What's not to like?

Strictly speaking, what's not to like about LED's is that most of the products on the market (especially "budget" units) fall short in reproducing the complete spectrum, so the results will be less flattering skin tones. I qualified this with "strictly speaking" because one can certainly turn out headshots that are likely to be considered acceptable by all involved, and with the advantages of light and cool fixtures, it's worth it for most people doing this kind of shooting.

I've spent the last couple of years trying to love the results of using LED's (including the rather expensive ones I own) but finally couldn't deny that there was something "off" and I now use them as fill, at best.

No comment on Doug's video which I'm sure is solid. It's just that I would fall short of saying that LED's trump tungsten in every way at this time. A few color-accurate units are finally on the market but at a high price point and not likely to be used by the average shooter.

If you were to create a light kit using nearly full spectrum LEDs such as Lightpanels, wouldn't you have to spend at least $4000?

Sure. But the point is, you can make a kit with full spectrum incandescent lighting for a fraction of that. So regardless of all of the functional advantages of budget LED kits, the final result (the footage itself) may suffer. To what degree of compromise this represents is up to the user to determine.

Obviously the best way to illustrate this is with side-by-side examples of the same setup under tungsten vs LED units, carefully shot to maintain equal levels and light quality. It would be tricky to pull off--attempting to match color temperatures exactly between mixed sources can be tough, especially when dealing with the broken spectrum units.

i have to agree with you charles
although i have a few leds in my kit i am not a big fan of their
light. they just dont look right but i cant really explain what is wrong. its just not right

as a gaffer i advise my dp's to only use them as a little fill or eyelight in a scene already lit by tungstan flouro or other source, some listen and some dont.

the damm things are so cheap and convenient they tend to be overused.

no one wants to use tungstan because they get hot and make the talent sweat.......suck it up
thats the price you pay for nice light.

cheers

I just bought and viewed Doug's LED Lights video. I don't want to give a way too much because, after all, Doug wants you to buy the DVD to get those details.

Looking at his light kit and B&H pricing I'd say his kit (5 lights) is probably just north of $6000.

He does do a comparison between Tungsten and LED, weighing advantages and disadvantages of each and obviously, given the DVD, you know which side he comes down own when you include overall use not just aesthetics of the light. I'd add that given he's a working professional with paying clients that include broadcast, one might guess the aesthetics are not a serious detraction for most interview situations (the focus of this DVD).

He does talk about Fluorescents as well. Obviously he feels LED wins over those in overall use as well. I mention this because some might wonder if he considers that in his comparisons.

It's interesting that his approach to cost has changed from the previous Tungsten DVD to this LED DVD. Under $1500 light kit was a key marketing point for the former I believe. He doesn't mention kit cost in the LED DVD so the above pricing I mention was based on looking at the light in his kit on B&H site.

My own thought about aesthetics though is that in an interview situation, heat can be a factor depending on the subject. How does a hot sweaty subject impact the performance especially for someone not used to being under lights?

Doug talks about the importance of having a diverse light kit but, to me, this is where cost can weigh heavy. If you do have a specific shoot that demands more than one of a specific light, it's not going to break the bank if you need to buy one more of something if it's Tungsten. On the other hand, with LED, that becomes a much heavier expense. Since Doug talks about LED Fresnels such as Sola ENG for example, I might point out that you can get 4 Lowel Pro Lights for a little less than the price of one Sola ENG.

There are certainly lots of advantages to LEDs but when you factor in cost it also can impact diversity (and expansion) of kit as well. LED might win on the convenience factor though if cost is not a big objection. I suspect Doug might argue that with a diverse LED kit, you can work through most interview situations without a big concern about kit expansion. Also one might think about the relative cost compared to other things. When you compare the under $1500 kit to the $6000+ kit the price comparison is similar to a higher end consumer camera to a lower end pro camera (think top of the line Canon Vixia vs Sony EX1r or EX3) it's not prohibitive for many working professionals.

BTW I should mention that I thought the DVD was very good. It answered a lot of my questions about a variety of LED type lights.

Yes, I bought the DVD, too. While very informative, I'm disappointed that Doug's exclusively recommending Lite Panels. $6k for an interview kit doesn't really intrigue me. I've invested maybe $800 in a used Rifa 66, two Omnis, and a Pro. Lowel stands, a C-stand, reflectors, and other grip, I'm maybe $1,200 into my very versatile, 100CRI interview kit. Sure, they get hot, sure you have to replace bulbs, and deal with mixed light. But I don't think the benefits of LEDs are 3-4x better than what I've got.

Brian, I'm of similar mindset but I can see the arguments for it and why Doug is specific to Litepanels given the features.

Litepanels have Fresnel type LEDs. I think that's critical because it overcomes control/shaping issues of the light. That they all have dimmers means one doesn't have to deal with ND gels or having to move them back (not always possible in some confined spaces. There's no longer the major risk of blowing circuit breakers in somebody's office. That even the 1x1s have have controls to widen or narrow within some range. There's the ability to dial in color temp which can be much faster than dealing with gels. The ability to run on batteries when you're either too far from an outlet or the power cords pose a safety risk.

The question is whether all that is "worth it." If it saves you half an hour or more on a shoot once in a while it may not be. If it's saving you that much time several times a week it may be. If it saves you 100 hours a year, depending on what your time is worth, that's a considerable amount of time you've gotten back.

Basically it may depend on whether you're a nearly full time shooter vs someone who does a lot of post work. If a typical project is a day or three of shoots followed by a week or more of post, the shoot time savings may not be quite as much.

Well said, Craig. Time is indeed $. I'd imagine setting up a nice LED for an interview might take half the time. Although, Rifas go up super-quick. No cords would be lovely indeed. Once prices come down (assuming the do), I'll certainly consider them.

Personally, I shoot 1 - 3 times a week, and then spend the rest of the time in the edit bay. 85% of the time, single headshot interviews. So, I'm a good candidate for LEDs. I just keep thinking of the extra camera, lighting, or sound kit I could purchase with the $.

OK, I'm an amateur, retired teacher, who does a number of interviews for some local non-profits for YouTube and their websites. I too would love to jump into LEDs - so many advantages. I could even deal with the color issues. But what I never see discussed is simply the quality of the light. It just seems too harsh for people to me - this is judging by what I've seen online. And the diffusion filters that come with them seem pretty ineffective.

Are there easy ways to really diffuse these? I want a directional light with very soft shadows, but my interviews are very informal, in the subjects' homes, and there is no time for lengthy soft box assembly, etc. Or is the style just trending for a harder look these days? I have a 2x2 Coollights flo, and I clip a Rosco diffusion sheet in front of the barn doors on that. Is it possible to get that level of diffusion that simply with LEDs? I'm not being dense here, I really hope the answer is yes.

By the way, I know it's a different situation in many ways, but I have a former student who works in lighting for TV, Vegas shows, etc. He told me recently that oh no, he would never use LEDs to light a person. He just feels that currently the light is just too unflattering.

David, since there's no danger of heat or fire, you can try just about any "bootstrap" solution to diffuse an LED panel. Wax paper, fabrics, seamless paper, thin vinyl shower curtain liners, or anything else you see at your local hardware store. I would do a series of tests on a very patient model (kid, grandkid, spouse, etc.) and reward them with candy (or shopping sprees). Document each material from wide to close-up, and see which look(s) you prefer.

Even though I've purchased the LED DVD, I think I'll stick with my Lowel Rifa until the LED price$ come down and quality comes up a bit. Unlike most other hot softboxes, where "speed ring" is an oxymoron, the Rifa opens up as fast as an umbrella and renders beautiful skin tones. It didn't hurt that I found a used 66 model without its diffusion panel for $150 either.

Interesting to read all the comments I've missed over the past month.

@ David, here are some excerpts from an interview I shot this past Monday using only 4 Litepanels lights, no extra soft boxes, diffusion or other grip equipment was used except one cookie pattern. Follwoing the principles I talk about in my DVD, it took me about 25 minutes to set up the lighting by myself. I'm happy with it, but more importantly, the client was very happy with it. My advice to your student who says you can't get good results with LEDs would be to go get some decent LED lights. That's why I bought quality instruments. Saving a few bucks just isn't worth it.

Sony PMW-F3 Picture Profile Test on Vimeo


@ Brian
As I say in my DVD, if cost is your primary concern you can't beat tungsten for bang for the buck. Stay with tungsten. I do not discuss the cost of a light kit in my DVD for two reasons: 1) Prices are coming down and I don't want to date the video by talking about cost. 2) This DVD is aimed at busy professionals who can appreciate the unique advantages the LED lights offer over other types of lights -- cost to most of them is a secondary concern. Time and convenience is money. For other people who are working on smaller budgets or who don't need to shoot interviews very often, then I recommend they stay with tungsten. I have a DVD for that too. :-)

@ Craig
Loved hearing your comments and you have done a great job of summing up my philosophy. Thanks.
I just want to correct one thing you said. Lowel Pro lights are not Fresnels so it isn't fair to compare their price to a Sola ENG or Sola 4.

@ Ian
If you don't like the quality of light from your LEDs, you may have bought the wrong brand. As I said earlier, that is why I chose Litepanels. More expensive? Yes. But worth every penny. Don't damn all LEDs just because some look like crap.

@ Charles
The quality of my lights has not suffered at all by switching to LEDs and I can work faster and better than ever before. I would not be using LEDs at all if I felt I was sacrificing quality.

Brian,
Thanks for the suggestions. I did realize that all kinds of diffusers, however home-grown, are capable of being used on LEDs, but I just never see an example of what that can look like. So are you saying that using those types of diffusers on LEDs can produce a softer look?


Doug,
That is a beautiful example of lighting, and I think it's very dramatic. I highly respect your well-earned reputation and expertise, and your XF300 DVD set has been invaluable in learning to use my XF100. So, I agree that beautiful lighting is possible from LEDs. However, as you mentioned, the lighting there was undiffused LEDs, and for my purposes, the shadows were not soft enough.

For those on a budget and shooting in very confined spaces this Lightpanels Sola ENG Flight Kit looks interesting.

http://www.litepanels.com/language/images/litepanels_sola_eng_flight_kit_broadcast_led_light_one_sheet_info.pdf

David, thanks for the compliments, and I agree that sometimes softer is better.

As you know, just putting some diffusion over the front of any light doesn't help much because it doesn't significantly increase the size of the light source. Softness comes from being bigger and closer. In fact, I have a Chimera soft box that goes on the face of my 1x1 Litepanels, and even though it increases the surface area 50%, it doesn't make the light very much softer. For $250 is was pretty much a waste of money.

A technique that I'll be demonstrating at my lighting class at Maine Media Workshops in August (The Art of Lighting and Shooting Interviews | Cinematography Workshops | Maine Media (http://www.mainemedia.edu/workshops/filmmaking/art-lighting-and-shooting-interviews)) is to take a 40" flexfill that has a thin translucent material and blast a Litepanels Sola 4 Fresnel into it. The light isn't terribly strong once it goes through the material, but it's still good enough for an interview and it has a beautiful soft appearance to it. I could never use the Flexfill with a hot tungsten or it would burn up. The Sola 4 is nice because it puts out a circle of light that matches the shape of the flexfill perfectly. I can dim it and adjust the flood/spot of beam to get the look I want. A 1x1 panel can be used put it doesn't fill the circle as well. A Sola 6 would be even better because it is much more powerful, but I don't have one of those.

Thx For the reviews

Hmm, I can't imagine a tungsten burning up a 40" diffusion when placed far enough back to cover the whole panel, unless it's a 2k+. But I agree that it's so nice not to have to worry about gloves or burning things up when working with LED.

just putting some diffusion over the front of any light doesn't help much because it doesn't significantly increase the size of the light source.

True about the size of the source, but it does "help" in the sense that it can make the source more uniform from edge to edge, which is relevant with many types of units, from open face to those with funky lenses to LED's. In the case of the latter, there is an argument that panels made of an array of LED's such as the Litepanel 1x1's are simply a series of point/hard sources, but it's my experience that the number and distance between the elements blend together into a single soft source unless the subject is extremely close to the unit. Diffusion has a much greater effect on a unit like a par or open face, where there is a tendency for a hot spot in the center that quickly falls off towards the edges, or a Source 4 where the edges may demonstrate the rainbow pattern typical of chromatic aberration.

Charles, that is all true. I should not have said "any light", because obviously some types of lamps do benefit from the simplest kind of diffusion material even if it doesn't significantly increase the surface area. Thanks for clarifying. My comments were really directed towards the Litepanels 1x1. I can't speak for other LEDs, but on those lights, a simple diffusion panel, or the special Chimera that is made for just them, makes almost no visible difference whatsoever on faces.

I feel the same way Doug, but tell that to the Zacuto guys, (eye roll):

Wide Open Camera Interview with Zacuto - NAB 2012 on Vimeo

Would I be correct in saying that if I was on a budget I was better off avoiding this DVD and looking at something like the original version of this?

Maybe How to Setup, Light, & Shoot Great Looking Interviews (http://www.vortexmedia.com/DVD_ILDVD.html) ?

I'm looking to start doing some documentary style interviews I want to take very seriously, so I want to get the lighting right. I have had some suggestions on how to do it, and read a bit on here, but I like the idea of a video tutorial.

Ryan, as the producer of both of these DVDs, I would strongly suggest that anyone who has a limited budget for lighting stay with tungsten. It's possible put together a pretty effective 4-light tungsten kit for under $1500 including lights, stands, gels, dimmers, WarmCards, etc. Tungsten has always looked great for interviews when they are used properly, and always will -- no matter what new fangled technology comes along.

Of course, LEDs offer quite a few advantages over tungsten that allow me to work faster, more effiently, and achieve looks that I could never do with tungsten lighting and that is why I am now 100% LED. I have not used any tungsten lights for over a year. But as I said, I don't recommend LED for someone without the $ to get quality instruments -- and the right types of LED lights. I've tried a few of the bargain LED lights, and I would rather use no lights at all than settle for the results they provide.

I hope that answers your question.

Thanks for that Doug. I sometimes have to appreciate that while the dollar is at parity, the AU and US markets are not, so it's not necessarily possible to do the same in both markets.

If you're convinced the other DVD (How to Setup, Light, & Shoot Great Looking Interviews (http://www.vortexmedia.com/DVD_ILDVD.html)) will be better I might take a look. Hopefully it'll at least give a good background/grounding which will give me more ideas moving towards the transition to an LED world.

Anyone looking to the Sola ENGs, look ELSEWHERE! I have had 3 of them and 2 died within the first month (technically, one was DOA). They are poorly built and cannot handle any sort of regular use. The 2 that I kept, both of their barn doors are cracked. I got these in addition to a Dedo LEDzilla and the Dedo has been perfect even though I have been much harder on it. Their color is no where near accurate.

I only have one Sola ENG, but it is everything I had hoped it would be. I've been using it on a nearly daily basis since the beginning of the year and have had no trouble whatsoever. The quality of the light is excellent and mixes well with my other Litepanels lights.

Steve...having just taken Mr. Jensen's "Broadcast Quality Corporate Videos" Workshop in August, we used his LED lighting kit for the our location shoot, it was loaded and unloaded into the van with the normal care given any expensive gear, but I don't remember any special admonitions from Mr. Jensen to be especially careful with the lighting kit. As far as I know, all the lighting kit was still working properly for our B-Roll and studio VO shotlist. I guess we didn't break it? Heh, heh!

I also recently purchased and watched Mr. Jensen's LED Lighting DVD. It was great! Mr. Jensen's LED DVD was/is responsible for my deciding to purchase a similar lighting kit for my small video business. Believe when I say, allocating $6K - $7K of my companies equipment budget to lighting is a large investment, but frankly, after doing a 'cost/benefit' analysis, it just makes sense. Lite Panels LEDs are stated to have a 50K hours life expectancy, and as Mr. Jensen mentions in his DVD, this equates to approximately 8-hrs/day for 15-years! While I don't know what the "Failure-Mode" or yearly maintenance costs might be for Tungsten lighting, I'd venture a guess the "Mean-Time Between Failures(MTBF)" is significantly higher for Tungsten lighting. While the 'buy-in' cost is steep, IMHO, LEDs will pay for themselves in the long-run.

Now, I just need to get more business. Heh, heh!

Best regards,

J.

I have to ask, what advantages do you see over litepanels vs the cheaper LEDs? Aside from the color temperature which I know can be a bit off on the cheaper LEDs.

As far as softness (or lack of) in the lights, or any kind of quality of throw, wouldn't they be about the same?

Paul, I think many ask the same question. One might wonder if this is, in part, the reason why Litepanels has an infringement lawsuit which may have major impact in the LED lighting industry. Obviously they feel their are other companies using technology which they believe they own (and likely selling for much less).

That said, I have seen competitors with LED lights claiming similar CRI ratings to light panels.

Recently at PhotoPlus Expo in NYC, I noticed several companies based in China on the show floor with what appeared to be startup USA distributors. As you might know, LEDs are manufactured in China. While the build quality of some of these lights ranged, they were claiming CRI of 93 much like Litepanels.

Of course Litepanels do have some things close to unique such as the Sola/Inca Fresnel like lights (although I've seen a few competitors surfacing there as well), panels themselves have many competitors and much lower prices and, given what I saw at PhotoPlus, the competition is increasing.

One of the concepts I saw, which was quite intriguing, were modules of smaller lights (much as one might see on a camera) which can interlock to build a panel.

I also note there are many extremely inexpensive LEDs but at lower CRI ratings. Some companies will quite honestly note CRI ratings in the upper 80s. I believe Lowel mentioned that that was the case with their small Blender light.

High CRI ratings are not a good indicator of color quality. Many articles have been written explaining just that. Leds by their nature do have a void or valley in their color spectrum which makes them not perfectly suited for critical color reproduction but to many the advantages in certain situations outweigh that inherent "flaw" .Many companies just throw around the CRI figures to attract sales not even knowing themselves what the true rating really is. I have seen many units in the "true" mid 80's that outperform, at least visually, to them overrated ones in the 90's. The true test is really in trying them out and see how they behave on real life situations rather than looking at spec sheets. Especially when a large investment is at stake.

The true test is really in trying them out and see how they behave on real life situations rather than looking at spec sheets. Especially when a large investment is at stake.

Not always easy to do for many people. Ideally the comparison should be with the same setup and with competing brands/models.

Personally, I'm inclined to avoid "heavy investment" in LEDs at the moment. In the "good old days" a good light kit was valuable for years. LED is such an "imperfect" and changing technology that it's conceivable that lights two years from now may well be improved. Purchases are much more of an ROI evaluation for LEDs as one may have consider it as a shorter term purchase than previous lighting instruments (tungsten).

Yes there's much more than CRI and I've read some of the very thorough tests but one has to realize a large portion of potential customers simply don't have that kind of time nor do the thoroughly understand the details. There's also financial realities and people need to know what compromises might be "acceptable."

Certainly there's LED use in some broadcast work and certainly what might be acceptable for News and Talks might be unacceptable for Episodic TV.

One of the bigger issues I have with LED marketing is that they just don't have enough detail on the quality of light their lights produce.

One of the reasons people turn to DVDs like VortexMedia is that they're willing to trust someone who has done the evaluation for their own business needs. My own concern is that it doesn't present alternatives.

This is an interested somewhat detailed test.
Click through to see how the lights' CRI compare.
TRUColor Foton | PRG TruColor (http://www.prgtrucolor.com/node/31)

Comparisons like this are also interesting.
comparison: Lowel ID-light & MicroPro LED light & Dedo Ledzilla Neil vN – tangents (http://neilvn.com/tangents/2011/03/25/comparison-lowel-id-light-micropro-led-light-dedo-ledzilla/)

I have to ask, what advantages do you see over litepanels vs the cheaper LEDs? Aside from the color temperature which I know can be a bit off on the cheaper LEDs.
As far as softness (or lack of) in the lights, or any kind of quality of throw, wouldn't they be about the same?

What I like about Litepanels is that they were the only ones I personally tested that had the features I wanted and the quality of light that I needed to replace my tungsten lights. And they were the only brand that offered the variety of instruments I need for shooting interviews, including Fresnels. I don't see how anyone can get along without a Fresenel light or two in their kit. And since I have gone 100% daylight balanced with my lighting, that ruled out using any of my old tungsten Fresnels.

Are there cheaper alternatives to Litepanels that I may have been happy with? Maybe. But not the other brands that I tested. And I'm not a testing lab or have the time or energy to test every light in the market. I found what worked for me, happily spent the money, and put them to work making money for me. No regrets whatsoever. In fact, just the opposite. Going with 100% daylight balanced, battery-operated, cool-running, lights has been the best move I ever made. As far as I'm concerned the lights have already paid for themselves.

My advice to anyone who is on a tight budget, or who rarely needs lighting -- is to just stick with tungsten lights. They're cheap and perfectly capable of producing excellent results. If you can't do LED right, don't do it at all.

Just bought and watched Doug's LED DVD yesterday. As usual, another great Vortex product! Some random thoughts in no particular order:

1. A copy of the DVD should be in every news room across the country, and each new hire should be required to watch it. Not so much for the LED portion, but for the interview set up basics.

2. I had to laugh when Dough said he'd never met anyone who uses HMI lights as their primary interview source. We should meet. After too many years of gelling tungsten fixtures, a Joker Bug two-light HMI kit was one of my first purchases when I put together my freelance kit a decade ago. They've been my go to, mixed light key source ever since. But LEDs weren't around back then...and I'd love to not have to drag around the ballast boxes, or do the maintenance.

3. This DVD seems like it's most useful to shooters more on the beginning end of their career, although I also found some nice takeaways, as well. His LED kit is over $8K as shown in the DVD, without accessories or stands. That's a pretty big nut for someone starting out.

4. I think I want to do Doug's Maine workshop sometime.

5. Maybe it's outside the scope of what Doug was intending here, but I would have been more interested in detailed LED specific comparisons, and a little less on interview logistics presumably covered equally well in his previous interview lighting DVD. A look at some of the pitfalls of other fixtures, and real world workarounds, might have been instructive. There are undoubtably many folks who would like to use LEDs for all the advantages Doug espouses, but may have to settle for lesser panels, or enter the market a fixture at a time. Some graphic examples of the perils of bad LED color reproduction, and how to lessen it, would be useful.

But as he notes above, go big with the package or go home.

I think one has to understand that this is from Doug's personal experience. It's great information on LED lighting but maybe more limited value on LED light shopping. Somehow I think that may be a difference between his previous DVD on lighting.

It may be that Doug is in a different place now. Cost is less of a concern relative to known good quality. For him, the time to research may cost more than the difference in prices. Consider that two days of research may cost more than buying a more expensive set. He alludes to having looked at other brands and not being quite as happy with them but we, the viewer, are left with doubt since we don't know which lights he looked at and why he wasn't happy with them. Of course it may not be a good thing to disparage brands on a training DVD. At very least it would be good to explain what he looked for and why, more specifically, he found Litepanels best.

There are now a few companies coming to market with LED fresnels but I still haven't seen anything as small or inexpensive as Sola ENG.

There might be more competition with the Sola 4 though.
There's Dracast
LED Light Fresnel Light Fresnel LED 135 LED video lighting (http://dracast.com/lights/led-lights/fresnel-led-135.html)
Zyklight and Arri now have LED Fresnels as well.

One might want to look at Lowel Blender vs Litepanels Chroma though.
Lowel Blender (http://www.lowel.com/blender/)

There are several 1x1 Panels on the market with the same diversity as Litepanels, similar specs on paper, much lower price. Litepanels themselves came out with non DMX versions at lower prices. They seem to be just under $1300.

But Flolight has similar models at $900 with similar specs on paper.
MicroBeam 1024 : High Powered LED Video Light - LED - FloLight LLC (http://www.flolight.com/led-lighting/microbeam-1024-high-powered-led-video-light.html)
as does Dracast
http://dracast.com/lights/led-lights/led-1000-video-light.html

There's no mention of the various "500" type LEDs. Maybe Doug found no need for them but I've seen so many of these on interview shoots that I can't help but think there's good reason many professionals find them adequate.

To the best of my knowledge, the above brands have good reputations and are used by working professionals as well.

The big issue with LED units is their color purity. Unlike tungsten, where an inexpensive shoplight (or a standard household lightbulb, for that matter) can produce full-spectrum light, LED's vary widely in this regard. In general, you get what you pay for.

Ultimately it will come down to the subjective eye of the user. Some may not see an issue with the skintones they are getting, others will find them unacceptable. I would say that if a given user is one who frets endlessly about nuances in codecs, lenses or camera specs, they probably shouldn't be pointing inexpensive LED's at their subject's faces either.

The problem is many of us have nothing more than manufacturer specs and anecdotal stories to determine lighting quality short of buying or, in rare cases, renting (it seems many brands aren't available to rent).

Recently I was at a trade show and watched a panel discussion focused on LED lights. Shortly after, I went over to the Litepanels booth and talked to someone who had been on the panel along with a "booth" person. We were talking about light meters specifically designed for LED lights and he presented one he had just purchased for about $2K (which is very inexpensive for an LED specific light meter from what I understand). He tested the Litepanels 1x1s (a few different but set to 5600k) and it seemed the CRI was in the mid 80s. The spectrometer had the rise at around 450nm ish if I remember. Obviously the test conditions weren't idea and the quality of the meter itself was unknown.

Basically without real testing we have no way of knowing whether there's any light quality difference (CRI, spectrometer results, color temp) between Dracast and Litepanels for example or companies like PRG (which does have a test online) claiming their LED lights are better.

LEDs are certainly not full spectrum but it's just very hard to know how significant the differences are relative to price.

Will this DVD still be relevant to us hobby guys that can only afford cheap 160 leds?

Just bought and watched Doug's LED DVD yesterday. As usual, another great Vortex product! Some random thoughts in no particular order:.

Hi Bill, thank you for purchasing the DVD and I'm glad that you liked it. It'd be great to meet in person at one of my Maine Media courses if you can ever make it. The 2013 schedule should be finalized soon.

Honestly, you are the only person I've ever heard of that uses HMI lighting indoors for regular sit-down interviews. if you've been able to make that work for you, I'm impressed. My hat's off to you. I'd rather have my fingernails pulled out than use an HMI kit indoors. How does the talent like it?? :-)

I realize you're not really expecting a direct reply to you comments, but I thought I'd chime in anyway to your comments and some of things other people have raised. I hope my comments don't sound defensive, because that is not how I mean them. I just want to clarify a few things.

Yes, the lighting kit I have chosen to put together is expensive, and I make no apologies for that. I am serious about my career and the cost of a light kit is peanuts in the big scheme of things. It's always been my philosophy to invest in quality tools that will allow me to work better, faster, more efficiently, and that will last for years and years with reliable service. Furthermore, I don't ever want to have to apologize for my equipment to clients, tell clients 'it's just as good as _____", or take a backseat to anyone. I apply this philosophy to cameras, tripods, audio, etc. and it has never let me down.

I did buy (and discard) a couple of other brands of LED lights before I realized they weren't cutting it, and moved over to 100% Litepanels. But I choose not to name the names of those unacceptable lights in the DVD because I'd prefer not to get sued. And why single them out? If I named the brands I didn't like, would viewers then assume all the other brands are okay? I chose to keep the DVD positive and only name the equipment I choose to use in my own business.

Keep in mind that Vortex Media is not a testing lab and I can't just go out and buy a bunch of lights to test. And that's not the purpose of the DVD anyway. The purpose of the DVD is to show people HOW to use their lights and their cameras to create nice looking shots. It is up to the viewer to decide which lights are acceptable. And even it I did have the resources to test a bunch of different lights, the DVD would be outdated the very first month it came out because new lights are coming out all the time. Some good, and I assume some bad. So, Litepanels may or may not be be the only acceptable brand of lights out there. I honestly don't know. I'm just telling people what lights I chose, and why I chose them. If people find there are other brands for less money that can get the job done, that is great! Then they can sse the techniques in the DVD to make them fly. LED does require different techniques than other types of lights.

Another reason for choosing Litepanels is that they are the only brand that offers all the different types of lights that I need for interviews. What am I going to do with a a bunch of identical 1x1 panels from some other company? Nothing. It'd be like telling a mechanic he could only have 5 identical screwdrivers -- and no wrenches or other tools. Litepanels offers me the variety I need.

In my first interview lighting DVD (only tungsten) my goal was to teach people how they could get great results on a budget -- by using the exact same lights I used to use every day. Until that DVD came out, a lot of people didn't think you could do network news-magazine caliber interviews with a light kit that cost about $1500. However, I showed that you could, because that $1500 kit was the basic kit I used on over 200 freelance shoots per year for clients like Dateline, 20/20, History Channel, Discovery, etc. It wasn't because I could not afford a more expensive light kit, the point was that I didn't need other lights. That kit allowed me to move quickly and efficiently with no sacrifice in quality. That was the purpose of that DVD.

But with the LED DVD, that was not my goal. I am NOT showing what can be done on a budget. In fact, just the opposite. If someone does not have the resources to purchase quality LED instrument -- and a variety of different types of lights -- then I strongly suggest that they stay with tungsten. In my opinion, LED is not something that should be attempted on a tight budget if you care about doing quality work. If you took away my Litepanels lights, then I'd go back to tungsten.

Hey Doug:

Slip me some information when the schedule gets firmed up for Maine, if you have a chance.

Regarding HMI for keys: The ballast box and cables can be a pain, especially when one is moving from room to room in a b-roll situation. But they put out a lot of light when you need to compete with windows. In an interview setting, I use HMIs and Chimeras with the deepest diffusion panel (and sometimes the interior diffusion as well) and nearly always use the fabric grids to contain the spill of light. Having the key off axis a bit and back an extra 5 or 6 feet keeps it from being much of an issue for the talent. In most cases, I'm trying to light with the key just enough to be slightly less than wide open.

One advantage the HMI has over an LED panel, it seems, is the ability to also have some utility outside as a fill, using the frosted fresnel or a piece of diffusion on the barn doors. But that's another story. Ultimately, I'd mostly like to have an LED kit to go with the HMI and ARRI kit, and then I'd mostly have the bases covered.

Regarding the LED quality: because I also know several good shooters who use the less expensive LEDs and like them a lot...I had been hoping to see at least a montage of side by side LED color quality across a number of fixtures, even if you didn't identify them by name.

But, as you noted, rather outside the scope of your DVD, and didn't really detract from its utility as a teaching tool.

Honestly, you are the only person I've ever heard of that uses HMI lighting indoors for regular sit-down interviews.

Guess you can add me to that list too, Doug. Although I don't know if by "regular" you mean, as a standard one-size-fits-all procedure, or just when needed.

A few years ago I did a corporate job with Vincent Laforet that involved a series of highly stylized interviews. Vincent was doing promo work with Litepanels and he had a case full of 1x1 units with us, and wanted to use them as the primary light source for the interviews. In many cases we were able to make this work. However we had one location that was adjacent to a sunlit atrium. We used that as a background but I needed to light to a higher level than a controlled environment would allow. We had the frame to build four Litepanels into a grid which I used as the primary source. The picture below shows the rather ugly setup. You can see that I actually needed to add a fifth Litepanel into the diffusion frame to get enough "poop". It was, frankly, something of a cluster-you-know-what. We had a 1200w HMI with us but Vincent really wanted to use the Litepanels.

We got through it, but later in that job we did an interview in a small living room using a background window behind the talent. This time I pulled out the 1200 and bounced it into the wall adjacent to the subject. While it was obviously a high light level compared to the Litepanels, it wasn't hard to look at. We were able to retain value outside the window and it was a simple setup.

That's just one story but I would say that over the years of doing an interview here and there, I have used HMI a small but significant portion of the time (admittedly the ones I do are not generally "TV style", more doc or corporate, which may have a different aesthetic and expectation and commensurately larger crew and equipment package). But bottom line for me is: not all interviews take place in controlled environments where one can define the light level. Sometimes you have to accomodate existing backgrounds and work up to a specific stop.

The shoot I described above took place three years ago, but since then a few high-power LED units have come on the market (Nila for one) that could have subbed for the 1200 HMI.

Doug,
Thanks for following this thread. As you can see there's many more concerns about LED than Tungsten lighting. Your DVD does an excellent job showing how to use a diversity of LED lights from Fresnel to Panels, it's the "unsaid" stuff that leaves viewers a bit uneasy.

While product comparisons might be outside the purview of the LED DVD, you brought up a preference. You did do a comparison between LED panels and Tungsten complete with chip chart showing color rendering.

Compare Litepanels to "Brand X"
Perhaps you might include one of the "poor quality" LED in that comparison without mentioning the brand. Another good real world test is simply to show a test with a real subject with Litepanel compared to "Brand X." It would inform the viewer what to look for. It's of major importance and probably why there's so much concern. It would be good to educated the viewer in how to judge LED light quality

Perhaps toss the above online. If you do an email blast or some other outreach to people who bought the LED DVD you may get a lot of views. Of course you could take marketing advantage of that in some form. It's obviously a hot topic.
_________
Pricing issues
I've used a separator for this since Doug already responded to pricing issues.
I'd agree that you really can't go into this on the DVD without making product comparisons and, yes, that would be risky territory for a tutorial DVD in which pricing and products change frequently as you point out in this thread.

This very comment, is a big concern with LEDs. It's still appears to be a technology in development, unlike Tungsten lighting. An excellent and expensive purchase today may be eclipsed in short order either in quality or pricing or both. For many, it makes the ROI (Return On Investment) much harder to calculate.

That Litepanels is using the legal system to protect patents may well mean they see the challenge that other companies are using the same technology (and possibly at lower prices). There are even other companies coming out with LED Fresnels (ironically none seem to be less expensive than Litepanels in that category).

Some price breakouts

Litepanels themselves are responding to price issues and that's a good thing.
For example:
I believe Doug may have used the following in your DVD w/ B&H Prices.

1x1 Mono LED Daylight Spot Light $1795.50
Since the DVD came out, Litetpanels came out with a version sans DMX control
1x1 LS Daylight Spot LED Panel $1255.50
So there's a big savings right there even staying within the same manufacturer.
I believe you also use
1X1 Bi-Color Variable Color Temperature LED Flood Light $2695.50
Unfortunately there's no LP LS non DMX series equivalent.
Of course if one can live with a daylight flood there's
1x1 LS Daylight Flood LED Panel $1255.50

So Doug's two panels are $4491
but you can drop that to $2511
for a savings of $1980 while staying with Litepanels

If you really wanted to go "budget" there's
Flolight MicroBeam 1024 High Powered Video Light (5600K) Spot $799
Flolight MicroBeam 1024 High Powered Video Light (5600K) Flood $899
That's $1698. That's a drop of $813 below the two Litepanels LS series.

So the tiers from Doug's to "untested" are:
$4491 - Doug's Litepanels panels
$2511 - Litepanels LS series
$1698 - Flolight panels

The other lights
Sola ENG $715
I see no competing LED Fresnel in that class.
Sola 4 LED Fresnel Light $1345
The few other LED Fresnels in that class seem to be more expensive.
Croma $584 but has a $100 discount through Dec 15 so it's currently $484
Lowel Blender is $494
So no major price difference there.

So Doug's kit (not including stands and accesories)
$1795.50 1x1 Spot
$2695.50 1x1 BiColor Flood
$1345 Sola 4
$715 Sola ENG
$584 Croma

Total $7135

By going with LS series you can drop that to
$5155
By going with Flolight you can drop that a litter further to
$4342
savings of $2793 if you dare.

Here's an HMI-enabled interview setup for Doug. Two 400 par HMIs, two ARRI 150s and a reflector. Look...the subject is smiling, not grimacing!