I just got the Optura Pi today and notice that I can not adjust in manual exposure mode 11+. On the PI you have + or - 11 steps in the manual exposure mode. But mine will not allow this. The Optura at the Camera store had no issue letting me control the iris. This optura at the Camera store probably was one of the first ones. Did Canon change something mid stream. Anyone know?

Michael Pappas

Hi Michael,

When testing, were you at full zoom or wide angle? I have discovered with my XL1S that in low light conditions and full telephoto, the iris cannot be set to the 1.6 position, even when in full manual mode it will only go to 2.6 under certain conditions. As you zoom back toward wide angle, the wider aperture settings become available. This might be the same sort of thing you are seeing.

I would have thought that in manual mode, you should be able to select any combination of shutter speed and iris that you wanted, but it seems that is not the case. In fact, if you set the camera to manual mode, lens to wide angle, shutter speed fairly high and iris to 1.6, then zoom into a poorly lit area, you will see the iris setting change automatically as you zoom in. Manual mode is not all that manual after all.

Ed Frazier

What type of widescreen method is employed by these cameras? Are they
any good?

Mark

What type of widescreen method is employed by these cameras? Are they
any good?

Mark

I know the Pi crops the video and then digitally stretches it to fill the 4:3 frame. I'm fairly certain the 100 does the same thing. That's the bad news.

The good news is that Canon's digital 16:9 stretch is pretty decent. I used it with my old Elura (very similar to the Pi) and the image is pretty nice. I worked with a Sony PD150 last year and played around with its 16:9 mode and it sucked. With the PD150 I'd shoot 4:3 and crop later, but with my old Elura I'd shoot 16:9 without too much hesitation.

I actually have some resolution test charts I ran with my Elura located on my web site. The charts include 4:3 and 16:9 comparisons:
http://www.philipwilliams.com/eluracharts.aspx

Oh yeah, and you can get a 16:9 anamorphic lens for the Pi for just over $300 (probably pricey for such an inexpensive cam, but it is an option).

Philip Williams
www.philipwilliams.com

That's great info.! I guess it's not perfect, but it looks to do a good job. How would you compare the 16:9 to some of todays camcorders? Is there a big difference? I went after a Pi due to low light capabilities, seems if you want a decent picture under low light today, you're forced to buy an expensive camcorder. :(

Mark

That's great info.! I guess it's not perfect, but it looks to do a good job. How would you compare the 16:9 to some of todays camcorders? Is there a big difference? I went after a Pi due to low light capabilities, seems if you want a decent picture under low light today, you're forced to buy an expensive camcorder. :(

Mark

Well, the new Opturas have bigger lenses, bigger CCDs with more pixels, real 16:9 and the latest electronics. Yeah, there'll be a difference. Throw in manual audio control as the icing on the cake. Frankly I'm also willing to wager that a new Optura 50/60 has at worst similar low-light shooting as the Pi (don't even get me started on the "low light" issue everyone has with $500 camcorders these days!).

Howerver, the Pi still does have a very respectable image and it does have one feature that I'm a real sucker for: Progressive Scan video. Not resolution losing Frame Mode junk, but real progressive 30P video. I know a lot of people don't like 30P ("oh, its so stuttery"), but I always found it gave my Elura footage a nice filmic quality that really differentiated it from regular video. If you must have progressive scan, accept no substitues. Frame Mode is alright but loses resolution, and deinterlacing in software never, NEVER, looks as good as native progressive footage.

Good luck,
Philip Williams
www.philipwilliams.com

Well, the new Opturas have bigger lenses, bigger CCDs with more pixels, real 16:9 and the latest electronics. Yeah, there'll be a difference. Throw in manual audio control as the icing on the cake. Frankly I'm also willing to wager that a new Optura 50/60 has at worst similar low-light shooting as the Pi (don't even get me started on the "low light" issue everyone has with $500 camcorders these days!).

Hmm, that's a bit of a head scratcher. I bought the Pi solely on the low light raves. Maybe this was the wrong conclusion. The 60 does have great functionality.


Howerver, the Pi still does have a very respectable image and it does have one feature that I'm a real sucker for: Progressive Scan video. Not resolution losing Frame Mode junk, but real progressive 30P video. I know a lot of people don't like 30P ("oh, its so stuttery"), but I always found it gave my Elura footage a nice filmic quality that really differentiated it from regular video. If you must have progressive scan, accept no substitues. Frame Mode is alright but loses resolution, and deinterlacing in software never, NEVER, looks as good as native progressive footage.

Good luck,
Philip Williams
www.philipwilliams.com

The progressive scan was my second reason for buying the Pi, I think it's interesting they no longer offer this feature in todays cameras.


Mike

As much as I like the Xi, I still really, really miss the Pi, it really was a great camcorder. Some other lucky DVInfo'er has it now.

I still think the Pi has much better low light ability than the Xi. This is based on comparing new and old footage in similar lighting conditions.

The Pi was almost perfect for me, except for it's electronic 16:9.
The Xi is almost perfect for me, except for it's low light performance and no progressive mode.

Aarrgh, the humanity.

So, how exactly does the Pi achieve 16:9? Is it a crop and zoom or electronic interpolation? Are these two terms the same :). I haven't seen a clear explaination regarding widescreen modes on the web. I saw an article here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article52.php

Talking about the XL1 saying it ends up cropping to 720x360 and pixels are lost.
Does the Optura Pi do the same? I'd like to determine the best method for shooting 16:9 footage.

1: Use the Pi provided widescreen mode.
2: Film in 4x3 then Crop with an NLE


3: Consider the Anamorphic lens. (Don't know how this affects editing process) * Oh well, I see this is cost prohibitive, it costs more than
a new camera.

Finally, what got me started on asking these questions is my JVC DVM76 camcorder. It has two widescreen modes. One to put bars on the top and bottom and one called squeeze for anamorphic. Are these two modes really different? Is one better than the other?

Mark

Looks like all of the "fake" 16:9 methods are just that "fake". They either simply crop lines so horizontal resolution drops from 480 to 360, or an additional "stretch" -> anamorphic is done to the 360 lines to get it back up to 480. However, picture information is lost in the stretch. Effectively 86,400 pixels are lost or 25% resolution. To bad they don't actually "squeeze" the
frame, rather stretch it? Couldn't they have added an additional 133.33 vertical columns to the CCD do this? Seems like it could be done with a
410k or greater CCD.

http://members.macconnect.com/users/b/ben/widescreen/index.html

This is somewhat interesting to me since I wonder how the shape of the pixels come into play. Essentially the picture is captured to a 720x480 resolution but for 16:9 the image is stretched to fit 16:9 aspect ratio.

Does this mean the "true" wide screen MiniDV CCD's have tall skinny rectangular pixels? Additionally, what does that mean for video shot with an Anamorphic lens that optically squishes the image, but records it to a 4:3 CCD. Is this a problem when stretching out the image to properly fit a 16:9 screen?

Mike

Does this mean the "true" wide screen MiniDV CCD's have tall skinny rectangular pixels? Additionally, what does that mean for video shot with an Anamorphic lens that optically squishes the image, but records it to a 4:3 CCD. Is this a problem when stretching out the image to properly fit a 16:9 screen?

Mike

The CCD's in standard definition DV camcorders are 4:3 in shape. The way that "true" widescreen works on these is that a 16:9 area of the CCD is sampled for the video frame (this can be accomplished because of the large number of pixels available on most newer CCDs). This 16:9 area is then squeezed horizontally to fit within the standard 4:3 video frame. This yields a standard 720x480 DV video frame where everthing appears squished and skinny (look at the Optura vs. Elura article that Chris Hurd posted in the Optura Junior section to see some graphics that illustrate the CCD sampling). When this video is played back on a widescreen TV it is stretched back out to fill the 16:9 frame. This is exactly how "enhanced for widescreen television" anamorphic DVDs work.

An anamorphic lens would essentially provide the same result: squeezing a 16:9 image into a 4:3 frame. Actually, you could put an anamorphic lens on a camcorder and combine it with the cam's own 16:9 mode to get an extremely squished video that - when stretched out in some software package - would yield an aspect ratio very close to scope film (about 2.35:1).

When viewed on a widescreen TV the resulting video will be substantially better than that shot with "fake" 16:9 camcorders (ie. crop and stretch vertically) and will also be far superior to having the TV "zoom" into a 4:3 video source.

Clear as mud.

Philip Williams
www.philipwilliams.com

Thanks again for the feedback. It looks like an anamorphic lens is really the way to do. I just don't understand why they're so expensive?

Funny thing is you can get some huge old style anamorphic lenses for fairly cheap, but they would be difficult to mount and use :(

Mike

My Optura Pi had been giving a lot of problems. The picture was blocky or pixalated. On some occasions no picture on playback. It gave the remove cassette frequently, also other problems such as the time code not being registered.

I sent it to the Canon repair center in Irvine CA. When it was returned the repair notice said repair completed and unit was set to factory specs, but it was reacting just as it was before sending it. I contacted them again,they sent Fedex to pick it up for return to the factory. This time when it was returned the repair order said the chassis including the recording heads was replaced. This seemingly has repaired all the problems, but they created a new one. On replacing the left side of the case, the repair person evidently tightened a screw to tight and cracked a small triangle area on the bottom of the case near the point where the battery locks on. I called them again on this problem. Next day Fedex picked up again. It was returned to me today with a new left side. From the small amount of time I have used it I am very happy

I want to express my thanks and gratitude to all of the Canon people that I had contact with. They were very interested and helpful every time I called.
Fedex was here the very next day after I called to pick up for return.

I made my first contact with them May 14 After sending it back two times, I received it back today June 29. I said all this to say my experience with Canon was very positive. The price they first quoted me of $157.00 was my complete cost. They replaced the Chassis and Recording heads And set to factory specks

Bob J. Trimmer

Had a similar experience with my Canon G2. I sent it in to be repaired and Canon basically gave me a new camera for around $150. I was very pleased with Canon's service.

That's good to know they're still repairing Optura Pi's.

Purchased a new Optura PI and was wondering if there's any collective value to it or should I enjoy using it which is why I bought it.

Congrats! I'd advise using it. It's kinda like holding onto an old VCR or TV hoping it's value will go up. With electronics newer is alway better.

Of course the Antique Roadshow has proven me wrong before!

Great camcorder --- I actually own two! :-)

Newer isn't always better. The newer Opturas lack progressive... and the Pi definitely has great color --- better color than the Opturas that used CMY (100mc and 200mc) rather than RGB. The 3.5" LCD is nice as is the size of the camcorder. It lacks real 16x9 but you'll get a picture competetive with most 1ccd camcorders, as long as shooting 4x3. You also have a LANC port if you decide to use it. I don't care about digital photos --- it's a camcorder.

It will still be fine for a long time to come.

Have fun!

You're right John, that's one point for the Antique roadshow.

Thanks for the feedback. I have been using it for a few days and have some questions. 1) Is it normal at times to pick up zoom noise.
2) Is there a way to turn off the auto shutoff.(it's really annoying)
3) When the optura pi is on but not recording do you get a high pitched buzz coming from the motor.

1. No, you shouldn't be recording the sound of the zoom... at least I've never noticed it.

2. No. From the Canon site: "The auto shut-off feature is designed to prevent unintentional depletion of the battery pack and possible damage to the unit. The automatic shut-off should not activate until after approximately 5 minutes in the record pause mode. This feature cannot be overridden. If the camcorder is shutting itself off at a significantly shorter interval than this, have the unit checked by a qualified technician."

3. No. You should not be getting a high pitched buzz coming from the motor. Is this getting picked up on audio or are you blessed with dog-like hearing? :-)

John,
Funny thing you mentioned the dog reference. I take my dog out to the parks and forest preserves almost every day and work with a rescue group handling dogs on weekends at adoption shows. I also feel a bit strange when there's a full moon. :) I do pick up the zoom and if i record in a room with no sound i do pick up the motor buzz. I was told the camera was new when i purchased it so is it possible it needs to be cleaned and oiled from not being used. Found this on canon website. Question: In quiet situations, I can hear the noise of the motor being recorded. What can I do about this? Their answer: Automatic audio gain will set the volume to capture any available noise. In a very quiet setting, this may be the sound of the camcorder motor, which could sound like a hum. To correct for this, provide some 'white' background noise, such as a radio or television. I guess if i scream into the mic when i zoom i won't pick up the zoom noise either. I better quit now i'm starting to talk to myself :).

Can you turn the AGC off ? I've always found it to "drop" transients when recording in a quiet environment. That is, the first word spoken by your subject is dropped.

I checked the manual and didn't see anything about turning the agc off. I'll try using the windscreen function and see if that lowers the sensitivity of the mic. I pick up motor noise only if its completely quiet so I guess I can live with that. When I zoom I pick up gear noise so I'll have that checked.

Received my camera back from Canon within 2 weeks. They replaced some parts under warranty and the gear noise seems to be less noticeable. Good Work Canon!

Hi, I have been very happy with my Optura Pi for five years now, but it recently developed problems, to the tune of $600 in repairs needed. I'd like to get opinions from the forum: should I spend the $600 to get it repaired, or start looking at new models? Thanks in advance.

I hate to say this (because I love the Optura Pi --- I had two, but just sold one to fund a new camera and keeping the second one) but if the repairs are truly $600 (for what?!) then you should put the money toward a new camcorder (unless you require the progressive scan --- but you could get a fully functioning used Optura Pi for much less than $600 if you look around). Just my opinion...

Canon Optura 50 - $444.95 at B&H
Canon Optura S1 - $549.95 at B&H
Canon Optura 600 - $899.95 at B&H
Panasonic PV-GS300 3 CCD - $649.95 at B&H

I agree. The Pi is not worth a $600 repair. I love that camera, I own one and am very fond of it -- however you are much better off spending that $600 on a newer Optura. All you're giving up is progressive scan and the large flip-out LCD. The newer EIS is almost as good as OIS was on the Pi. All newer Opturas have an RGB color filter like the Pi. Image quality on the newer Opturas will be significantly better than the Pi, primarily due to the Digic DSP and improved CCD technology. Hope this helps,

Thanks, I appreciate the input. The $600 estimate I got was from an independent technician (not Canon) for replacing the following: (1) the capstan motor, (2) the reel drive mechanism, and (3) the flexible circuit board connecting the LCD screen and eyepiece. For the record, I did not abuse this camera, so I have to wonder if these parts are failing due to age. I might get a second opinion on the actual repairs. BTW, Canon offered to take it as a trade in (plus $300) for a refurbished Elura 60.

You might want to consider the Optura 50. Or, you can get a NEW Canon ELURA 80 for $334.95 at B&H. But, I don't know what your budget is; check out each camera's features and one will probably appeal to you.

Donna, it seems strange the repair center wants to replace the Captain unit(part of the deck unit), and the reel drive unit(slide mech), plus a flex board for the LCD.

It sure doesn't seem that they don't know what the problem is, and are throwing part into the unit to solve the problem. The deck unit and reel drive unit are the complete tape unit. I don't know what the original problem was, but this is a lot of very expensive parts going into a camera you said was'nt abussed.

As for the torn LCD flex. On the Optura Pi, if you didn't have a problem with your LCD or control buttons, I feel there's something not quite right about this part being needed. The Pi is a very tricky camera to disassemble correctly.

Jim

<snip>The newer EIS is almost as good as OIS was on the Pi. <snip>

Just an FYI, the Optura 50/60 actually do have OIS. The 30/40 had EIS.

www.philipwilliams.com

Quite right Phillip, but the Optura S1 and 600 (both newer than the 50 and 60) have EIS.

Quite right Phillip, but the Optura S1 and 600 (both newer than the 50 and 60) have EIS.

Wish Canon would just make up their mind :)

I haven't figured out how to start my own thread (I'm new at this). What motivated me to join the forum was to ask about the Optura Pi. My mother recently brought me an Optura Pi to put on Ebay and sell for her. I know nothing about camcorders, but enough about Ebay to be intrigued that there were no Optura Pi's for sale. I've learned from this forum that although the Pi may be a few years old, that it is appreciated. The one I've got, looks like it was never or very lightly used. It's got the manual and a carrying case and all the wiring and such. Since all these cameras look the same to me, I assumed this was just an older camera that I could sell for a hundred dollars or that I would buy from my Mom for cheap and use for family camera. From what I read, this kind of use might be doing a disservice to the camera. I saw earlier in this thread that someone indicated that used Pi's presently sell for under 500-600. My question is what value should I expect when I sell it? I appreciate any feedback and apologize for using this thread to pose this question.

Hi Greg,

I've moved your post into a new thread. Our members should be able to help you establish a reasonable price for your Pi. As a Pi owner myself, I believe the camcorder, if it's in perfect working order, should fetch about $500 but hopefully others here will have some input for you on this.

Hi Greg, as you noted, the Optura Pi is rarely seen on Ebay. A couple reasons, firstly being that most Pi owners aren't interested in selling! Try finding a new camcorder that does 30P progressive scan and its easy to see why...
Secondly, there's always a market for it, so when they show up on Ebay they pretty much always sell. Its not one of those products that people keep having to re-list for weeks on end.
Thirdly, well frankly, I don't think Canon made that many of them.

Now as for sale value on Ebay, that's going to also be dependent on your Ebay account to an extent. I've seen guys with 10 feedback sell something for $100 that a guy with 300 feedback moves for $170. With that caveat in mind, just use the Ebay "Advanced Search" and check the box for "Completed Items Only" (or something very similar). That will pull up completed auctions only and you can gauge what people have been getting for Pi's lately. I'm gonna say that a mint camera with manual from a reputable seller should fetch between $375-450 on Ebay.

That's just based off memory from about a year ago when I was looking for a Pi on Ebay. I'd say that if one wishes to sell a Pi, now is probably a good time. I think there's going to be pressure on niche cams like the Pi as affordable HD cams come out.

Good luck!

www.philipwilliams.com

The Canon Optura Pi and the JVC DVL9800U (a similar 30p consumer camera) do fetch a premium on eBay. I got one of each last year to do some experimenting.

Thank you for your responses. This forum sounds like it contains a great group of thoughtful and kind people.

Greg Cantwell

I've had very good luck with the West Coast Canon repair.

Send it to them for an estimate. I bet it will come in closer to $200. And you should have it back in 3 weeks.

-Tom-

EIS vs. OIS... wish Canon would just make up their mind :)Image quality used to take a hit with EIS, but EIS technology has dramatically improved in recent years. It's now very good, and commonly Canon chooses it for their smaller form factor camcorders such as the Optura 600 and S1.

Hi All,
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. Just to update you on my Optura Pi, I finally decided to send it in to Canon West Coast Factory Service. Lo and behold, they were able to fix everything for a mere $62 + shipping! And I mean everything. Here's what the service details say: replaced main chassis assy/slide chassis assy/drive gear and idler gear assy/ cleaned and checked/ etc.

Don't know why I didn't send it to Canon first--I guess I tend to assume that the Manufacturer is always going to be more expensive. But not this time. I am thrilled to have the Pi back and working beautifully, and even more thrilled that I don't have to go shopping for its replacement quite yet!

Donna

Excellent! Yes, Canon has great service. I’m relieved that you got your Optura Pi fixed; I know I still love mine and will keep it until they pry it from my cold, dead fingers… (or until I just decide to get rid of it, but that doesn't sound as dramatic) ;-)

Nice to hear a story with a happy ending! Its good to know that Canon came through on an older model with a reasonable repair bill.

www.philipwilliams.com