Hi Guys

Shot a wedding on both AC-130's yesterday and I definately think that an essential asset would be a loupe viewfinder over the LCD screen.

It seems that Hoodman's EX PRO kit should fit any 4" LCD and it would certainly make using the cam up on your shoulder a lot easier...even on the tripod I found that the LCD just wasn't sharp enough for my old weary eyes and the Hoodman EVF Kit looks pretty much perfect.

Anyone else have something like the Hoodman on an HVX or HMC150 that they can say really works well??? The DSLR Loupes only fit a 3" screen so I think the EX kit has an extra extender.....

I need to know what would be the best kit to order???

Chris

Why not use the VF? It's actually higher resolution than the LCD

Hi Les

Very inconvenient and way too far back !! Yes it's much nicer res but really badly positioned. You have the whole weight of the camera extending from your eye..sorta domestic camcorder style and at 5lbs or more it's tough to handhold!!

My 130's are on aluminium rails with a shoulder mount pad and handles at the front but the EVF sits near my ear so at the moment I'm using the LCD with a foam board constructed shade hood and a little fresnel lens on the top but it's not ideal. I need something like the Sony EX-3 has (they have an EVF just like the Panny HMC80 with the LCD and a loupe over it.

Now, I have also just found the Hoodman EVF that is made for the Canon XF305 and the blurb says "suitable for all 4" LCD's" The 130 has a 4" LCD ....!!! Anybody bought one of these units???

It seems to almost be a copy of the HMC80 flip up loupe with a decent eyecup too and straps over the LCD with velcro .... I think that might be the best option ???? Anyone know if they have diopter adjustment too???? So far I have only found a suitable model from Hoodman.

Any feedback would be appreciated!!

Be interested to know if this fits as well. Does the Hoodman have any magnification?

Chris,
Just a thought but perhaps a trip to CenturyOptics dot com and check to see if they have a magnifer. That's what I use on my trusty 170(s) when on a tripod or the multirig (so I guess I use it all the time then lol). It's not a VF type setup but it magnifys the LCD really well and works great for focusing.
Just thinking out loud which is hard for me to do at this time of night! ;-)

Sounds like you really like the 130s.

Hi Nate
If you go to the Hoodman site and look for the EX Pro Kit the demo video (all 25 seconds of it) Shows the guy using it on not an EX1 but on a panasonic HPX202 and it looks pretty much perfect!!

I'm still trying to determine whether one needs to buy the EX1 kit as that does say that you have +-3 diopter adjustment (I need that adjustment!!!) but nothing is mentioned on the cheaper X305 EVF.

If it does have diopter adjustment (I think you turn the knob under the eyecup to adjust focus) then I want one or two ... without focus adjust I would think it would be useless unless you have 20/20 vision!!!

I can adjust my rig to suit but I think it would be perfect and you have the same sort of setup as the Sony EX3 ...only thing is you can't tilt the loupe upwards as it's strapped over the LCD.

Anyone else used one on a Panny camera ??? Is the EX Pro kit the better one to buy???

Chris

Hi Don

AWESOME cameras!! Just have to get used to switching in ND's outdoors!!! The wedding went very well but I think a loupe is going to be an essential!!

I'll look at Century as well!!

Chris

Yeah, even on the good old 170s I watch the LCD for the ND sign to flash in it when I go outside. I never forget but sometime I only set to 1 instead of 2 or 2 instead of 1. Oh well.

Hey maybe stronger glasses would do it.

O|O
\--/

Hi Don

Wow! Century Optics are pretty pricey!! The idea is to get away from glasses..I just need them for fine print close up and everything looks weird if I use them further than a foot away!!

I think the loupe is going to be a toss up between the Hoodman X305 model OR the EX1 Kit....both look the same to me so I'll give the dealer a quick call here tomorrow (it will be Monday here by then) and just confirm the difference and see whether to order one or the other!

Sorry I made an error guys ..the camera in the Hoodman demo clip is an HVX200 so that's pretty much the same body (size wise) as the 130 and 160 so it should fit OK.

Provide the kits actually do have diopter adjustment I will order a couple and let everyone know how they work out on the 130 LCD. If they do work (and it looks like they should) it will make the 130 a lot more adaptable on a rig (I can, of course, adjust the rig if need be but judging from my rigs my eye is directly in front of the LCD and about right for distance but the shoulder pad MAY need to come forward just a bit)

Chris

A bit of luck here now!!

It happens that although being called the most isolated city in the world (we were the ones that put on our lights for John Glenn on his maiden space voyage!!) a local camera dealer actually has the Ex1 Pro Hoodman in stock!!

I have a Realty shoot in the morning so after I have done that I'll go and pay them a visit (I'll also have a camera with me!) and go check out this loupe and hopefully can convince the dealer to let me put in on the LCD so I can evaluate it.

Nate?? I should have an answer for you before you climb into bed on Sunday night!! Magnification is stated as 3.0X Which should be great.

If I like it I'll buy two..one for each camera!!

Chris

@Chris ... ahhh yes I was thinking sticks and the VF ... totally understand the handheld issue. I removed the VF from my EX1R all together.

I had a Hoodman on the EX1R. It has a diopter. What I didn't like about the Hoodman or any other LCD approach is that the LCD isn't really designed to hold the weight and accommodate the pressure. In the case of the EX1R, the LCD actually flexes outward a little. I found the Hoodman slipping left to right to the point it covered the screen at times or slipped off the edge at others. YMMV

But in the end, the Handycam designs all have the problem of a lack of proper ergonomics and there's little choice but to frankenstein the rig. I think this is why the EX3, H1 and JVC semi shoulder mount cameras are popular.

Thanks Les

Yes, the mounting issue does present a problem of course...the EX3 does it the same way as the Panny HMC80 so the LCD is in a proper housing and the loupe flips up if you need it to. I have actually seen quite a few EX1's with the EVF physically blanked off !!

I'll look at the sliding issue...a squirt from my hot glue gun would keep the loupe in place all right but that's a little drastic! Maybe some soft "squishy" PVC on the bottom might hold it better??

The weight is always an issue considering the fact that the LCD isn't supposed to hold any extra attachments but I have also looked at the fact that there is 3 mount holes (2 x 1/4" and 1 x 3/8") in the middle of the AC-130 handle which might lend themselves nicely to some sort of extra support from the handle and down to the actual fitting to take some load off the LCD hinge. Hmmm maybe a little arm extending out from the handle so it hovers over the Hoodman near the eyepiece and a spring or lever arrangement between the arm and hoodman to allow you to tilt if you want to... Using it on a rig you should be able to have the support arm fixed as a support (or maybe adjustable on a shaft with a thumb screw but it's certainly worth looking at so the LCD hinges are not over stressed!!

Nice to know it has diopter adjustment otherwise you have to either add or subtract from the length to get the LCD image sharp.

Your input is much appreciated

Chris

I think you'll find the body position of the LCD on the Ac-130 puts the loupe in a poor position relative to COG. The EX1 and XF300 LCD is mounted on the handle near the mics. On the AC-130, it's on the body (lower and further back). When you add the depth of the loupe, you've got quite a bit of camera weight out in front and raised another few inches higher than those other cameras.

Thanks Les
I have my cams on a shoulder mount rig and the LCD is actually at eye level now and just around the right distance from my eye too...if the LCD was positioned the same as the EX1 it would be way too high for me (or the Hoodman would have to be tilted down a lot) and definately too far away...I have support handles on the rig (it's all my own design so anything can be changed!!) and also I have migrated my waist belt and ENG spring loaded rod that I used on the HMC80 to take the front weight off to these cameras too. I have the cameras on dual rails and on a shoulder pad so they sit pretty darn high...it I had an EX1 style LCD I would have made the rig sorta like a rifle stock so it fits into my shoulder rather than on it like the Ex3 does.

I'll post pics if this guy has the hoodmans in stock

Chris

Hi All

I have two Hoodman EX1 Pro kits in my hot little hands now...We tried them out in the store and they should be absolutely perfect.

I'll post some pics later as I have a shoot to do but initial "in-store" tests looked pretty encouraging!!

I will need to move my rig shoulder pad closer to the cam by maybe 2 or 3" but that's about all ..the eyepiece fits nicely and fall into a natural position where you can use it.

More stuff later when I return!

Chris

Hi All

OK the Hoodman is definately too heavy for the Panny LCD..it stresses the hinges and also twists the LCD a bit too..BUT it works like magic IF it's supported and puts absolutely no stress on the LCD at all.

This is just a "demo" photo but what I have done is put an aluminium bar across the handle (using the 3/8" screw hole) and then as a temporary test, I put the Hoodman lanyard rubber ring over the hood and just cable tied the lanyard to the aluminium bar.

It now almost floats in front of the LCD...you can see how there is no stress at all by the fact that I have the hood attached to the LCD with two tiny elastic bands ....I actually used it for a bit like this too without any problems....the LCD is awesome now...sharp as a tack (the hoodman is adjustable) and really great to use.

If you are going to use one Nate (throughly recommended!!) you will need a support for the hood!!!

Now has anyone got some neat ideas as to how the hood should be supported from the bar???? Could it be a fixed rod there??? I was going to punch a hole in the hood and use a piece of 1/8" threaded rod..or should it be flexible???

The big velcro strap also seems a bit of an overkill..I'm looking for ideas on strapping the hood to the LCD..maybe just some wide sewing elastic fastened to the end of the hood so it has elasticised straps that keep it in position??

Ideas and you 2c worth would be great

Chris

Oops forgot the image!!!

Hey Chris,

Many thanks for all of this! After my Aussie holiday next month I'll be getting either an AC130 or AC160. Your adventures and findings are a great insight. I've decided I need a camera that has all the main functions as buttons and knobs on the chassis, I am fed up poking around in menus and touchscreens like my Pansonic HMC41 and my current Sony NX70. The real ND filters will be very welcome too, I'm fed up screwing filters on and off or messing around with a mattebox in even the slightest sunlight.

I was kind of hoping that I wouldn't need to start strapping things on to the camera. 99% of my work is tripod based, so maybe I can get away with the viewfinder and/or LCD screen without "extras".

I would worry about the elastic bands being durable enough, you don't want them going "ping!" in the middle of a wedding and taking someone's eye out (probably your own!). My thoughts here are of elastic bands that get exposed to sun getting very brittle and break easily.

Hoodman have their own lightweight mounting, I wonder if it is more durable? Cinema Strap-Hoodman Corporation (http://www.hoodmanusa.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HSLRM)

I used the kit you have on my old Sony V1e camera, including their velcro mounting strap, and it really was good, but I was worried about the stress on the LCD screen. The magnified loupe was just fantastic, the whole kit was a hundred times better than the cheaper devices I had dabbled with.

Hey Mike

It's just me and my total dependance on shoulder mounts and more importantly, being able to have diopter adjustment. You can certainly use the LCD with a hood but if the sun is behind you it is useless!!

On tripod you will be fine!! In fact because the EVF can tilt upwards it's very neat but I STILL like the idea of a loupe over an LCD...guess I was spoilt with the HMC82's!!!

I really hate touch screens..I even have problems with my Android phone!!! The 130 has buttons!!!

One thing you will absolutely love is the area iris and focus...just press the function joystick and move the target over the bride and groom and exposure and focus is only for that area....backlighting is no longer any issue...You can expose accurately (and focus too) and precisely ...just like spot exposure on a DSLR!! My biggest issues at weddings is exposure where there is a bright background and this solves it all!!

The only negative thing I have found so far is the auto level audio!!! It seems to slice the peaks off the waveform unless it's a very tiny signal...manual on the other hand is better than ever!! You can set the max peak level so it's a manual control but still zaps loud sounds.... with my wireless mics I can seriously leave the audio at 50% and it's perfect!!

Unless you really need the variable frame rate and SDI output , the 130 is better value!!

Chris

Chris,

You're probably right about the 130 versus the 160. I am tempted by the variable frame rate, plus the promised upgrade to 1080 50p, which seems to only be for the 160. Maybe by the time I buy it will all become clear!

...but all that is a different thread to a discussion about the viewfinder!

Barry Green said somewhere (or maybe Adam Wilt?) that putting the viewfinder to black & white and turning on peaking was a wonderful experience for ensuring best focus. I can't wait!

I have heard that too, along wit the fact that the auto focus is poor??? Well I have shot about 15 hours on each camera so far and all the autofocus shoots are perfect so that must be a myth UNLESS the camera might be struggling at full zoom!! (which I never use anyway) My HMC82's at full zoom and at a dance recital also used to struggle with auto focus!!



Update on the Loupe :

OK, I have decided on an aluminium bar fastened to the handle and extending out 5" ...I have a piece of 1/8th threaded rod dropping down vertically and at the end a little hook that goes thru the loupe's lanyard "o" ring and provides perfect support (with suspension too!!) and it essentially hangs directly in front of the LCD..In fact you can actually use it quite well without ANY loupe-LCD connection. I'll post detailed pics of the "rig" once the pieces are sprayed matt black so they look the part..believe it or not the "hook" bit is made from an old 3 pronged hook that goes in a drape (called curtains here) It had a neat ring in it already!!

Now the camcorder strap from Hoodman is really useless!! It just doesn't hold the LCD/ Loupe together well at all!! In fact I wouldn't even waste money on it!! If I had known I would have just bought the HoodLoupe 3.0, Eyepiece and Riser . Now, what I'm thinking here is putting 4 x 1/8" bolts in the inside of the riser so they protrude left and right over the top and bottom of the LCD and provide anchors for two "O" rings that will simply strap across the LCD ..top to bottom...I'm sure that's all one needs is a couple of 2" "O" rings and the rider part of the loupe will be held neatly against the LCD !!

Pics later !!!

Chris

Re. the autofocus, Chris. I've seen a lot of discussion on "the other website" about this. Generally, it seems to be a lot of dark, dim churches, lounge rooms etc. that seem to have difficulty focusing. Jan from Panasonic has been uber-responsive there, and I've seen nothing that puts me off the camera.

My short experience of Perth suggested that it wasn't often very dark and dim, so maybe it's not a problem for you! (But ruddy 'ell, it wasn't half windy on the day I went to Freo!)

What you're doing with that mount sounds interesting, Chris. I see Hoodman have some similar mounts for DSLRs that do the same job, mounting onto the accessory shoe and acting as a bracket for the loupe. I'm not sure they are of any use to you, but maybe they could inspire the engineer in you?

HOODCRANE-Hoodman Corporation (http://www.hoodmanusa.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HCRN)

I made a viewfinder loupe for my EX3 that gives me a brighter and bigger image than the original. It gives a bigger image because the lens used has a shorter focal length than the Sony lens. Physically the new loupe is ~ 2” shorter making hand holding easier.

A disadvantage is that the shorter focal length and large aperture increases the risk of sun burning the finder screen. I have now added an internal sun-blind operated by the cord fitted with the blue knobs (see photo).
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/images/attach/jpg.gif

Nice Alastair!!

It looks good and us guys that prefer EVF's are happy too!! My issue wasn't so much focal length or magnification rather than the ability to adjust the focal length..the Hoodman provided that but at quite a cost!!! The EX Kit here is $185.00 and I needed two!!!

I am done with my Hoodman and it's a joy to work with...The final "crane" was an aluminium bar with a piece of 1/8" threaded rod going down to the loupe's lanyard "o" ring..it takes all the weight and there is no pressure on the LCD at all...I tried punching holes in the end of the loupe and pop rivetting elastic across it but it distorted the shape so it all had to come off. Because of the "floating" loupe ..All I need is two domestic elastic bands to keep it in place and it never moves...the pins top and bottom are just pop rivets inserted from the inside using the holes from my first disasterous idea!!!

I've also had to move the rigs shoulder pad 3" closer to the camera and then everything was given a coat of matt black paint (not the camera!!!! just the aluminium) I'm pretty happy with the operation now!!

Mike? I haven't really seen any focus issues and if there was did you know that the focus and iris rings provide tweaking even if you are shooting in auto??? I would say that any focus "slowness" would tend to be at the 22X zoom...I haven't seen it at wide angle even shooting in low light!! By using the area function both the iris and focus only operate in the target lines so any fuzzy low light background is not taken into account....it's a function I will use a lot!!!

Chris

Chris,

You probably should have bought a AC120 and done this to it, seeing you don't use the EVF.

Globalmediapro have them pretty cheap I see!

Cheers,

Vaughan

How does the saying go?? "Closing the stable door after the horse has gone" ????

Exactly one week after my cameras were delivered, the 120's appeared in GMP's stock list...Just bear in mind that you save only $800 and apart from the lack of EVF you also don't get a battery, charger and accessories either.

The standard EVF is very useable if the camera is on a tripod or monopod!! It purely the fact that if you hand hold (and I do close to 2 hours a day handheld shooting most weeks) the end mounted EVF makes the camera a killer on your right hand!!

By using the little crane on the handle I can actually remove the 2nd EVF in a matter of seconds if I need to use just the LCD screen...I just unclip the two bands holding the screen and unhook the rod and I'm back to LCD.

If anyone wants dimensions for this mod just let me know !!

Chris

Barry Green said somewhere (or maybe Adam Wilt?) that putting the viewfinder to black & white and turning on peaking was a wonderful experience for ensuring best focus. I can't wait!

Just tried this and it is AMAZING. Thanks for the tip!

Hi Guys

I did another small mod to the loupe on the 130 viewfinder that sits on the LCD screen so I thought I would post a pic in case anyone else wants to do it. I have scrapped the rubber "extender" from Hoodman as it's way too heavy and it flexes too!!
All I have done is built a little box made out of black foam board and hot-glued together about 2" high and then I stripped off the rubber coating on the actual loupe (glue didn't want to adhere to the rubber but it sticks well to the plastic case of the loupe) and simply ran a strip of hot glue around the edge so the loupe stays firmly in place. As before the little box sits over the LCD and being much lighter, it works a lot better too. I just keep it in place with a few rubber bands.

Sorry I uploaded the pic to the wrong post but you can find it on my other DIY rig thread! (not allowed to post pics twice!!)

Works well for me now!!

Chris