OK, starting a new thread on this as its not related to hard drives anymore.

I am just getting ready to buy the tools required to build this spinning glass adapter. Below is what I intend to use:

1:A plastic project box to house everything in. size - MB5 145 x 95 x 57·5 (mm):
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=1676&TabID=1&WorldID=&doy=3m9

2:1 Circular glass cutter like here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4402699540&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

3:Pack of 1mm Diamond drill bits like here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5997131218&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

4:Coolermaster 80mm Tri-Blade Silent Fan:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6797075948&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1


Firstly ill cut the fan blades off and the outer body. Ill then drill 3 holes in the centre of a 5x6" glass from a photoframe using the 1mm diamond drill bit, the 3 holes will form a triangle shape to mount to the pc fan.

i will then place the glass in top of the pc fan where it should be mounted as accuratly as I can, then mark 3 holes on the fan. Ill then drill the holes on the fan ready to take 1mm screws to hole the glass to the fan. Ill use rubber grommets/washers, as to prent the screws from cracking the glass when they are tightened.

With the glass mounted, Ill start the glass spinning slowly, then using a perminant marker pen, touch the surface of the glass exactly 45mm from centre (90mm diameter glass), keeping the pen very steady. This will result in a line in the perfect position in relation to the axis of the motor.

Unmount the glass from the fan, then using the circular glass cutter, cut the 90mm diameter glass disk exactly on the line.

Once cut, you can then grind the glass with aluminium oxide (maybe its best to grind before hand?)

Remount the glass and you have it. The glass should be centred perfectly in relation to the centre axis of the motor.


There are 2 possible problems with this method. 1: Any inaccuracy when trying to cut on the line with the cicular glass cutter and 2:making sure the glass mounts to the fan in the EXACT same position each time.

Anyway, im going to buy the tools next week and give this a go. the 90mm diameter disk is the smallest possible while being able to use a 36x24mm frame area. The smaller the diameter of the glass, the less gyro effect i beleive. Ill let you all know how I get on.

Thanks
Wayne.

Ill see if I can make some drawn diagrams today to demonstrate my method, hopefully I can post them later.

Wayne.

Howdy, using a computer cooling fan is a good idea, I wanted to do this not too long ago. However I couldn't power the fan, they require 12V which is quite a lot.

I'm interested to know how are you going to power the fan?

Thanks.

Good question,

According to Keith Wakeham, the brushless fan will have the same effect to varying voltage as a brushed motor, less voltage=slower, higher voltage=faster.

This is something I will have to look into, but I dont think it will require the full 12v as this will spin too fast. There are a few options as far as battery power is concerned. high capacity AA batteries is an option, 8 of them would give 9.6v.

maybe 1 high capacity 9v square battery would work? Others have sujested the use of camcorder batteries.

1 more expensive option is to use a 3 cell lithium polymer pack. these come in very high capacity and supply 11.1v. They do require a special charger, though.

Anybody have any other ideas?

Thanks,
Wayne.

I've been looking at high voltage batteries. Here is a good reatiler:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/family.aspx?menu=77&doy=4m9

They have quite a large selection.

Thanks.

Im popping into maplins tomorrow to buy the project box, so ill have a little look while im there.

Im half way trough drawing these diagrams, ill post later.

Wayne.

Ok,
Here are 10 images illustrating my method a little more clearly:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/final/glass.htm

Glen hurd came up with an idea that could be added as a last step to the aobe method:
Another possibility to creating a perfectly balanced glass disk, is to spin it on the motor slow enough (100 rpm perhaps) that any vibration doesn't pose a danger, and use a fine sharpening stone with lots of oil. Mount the motor on something solid, and raise the stone to where it's just barely rubbing the glass. You may be able to grind it to a perfect circle that is perfectly centered on its mount. That would be better than going with a coupling approach.
You may have good luck, and get a perfect cut on a perfect center. I'm just trying to come up with solutions for the off-chance that you experience results more like mine tend to be :)

G


Anyway, any coments would be great

Thanks,
Wayne

I think i will try this method as well, as you described it very well and I already have all the supplies. Please keep us posted with how your test goes

Jeff,
Im glad to see your giving it ago as well, im not alone!!! I'll certainly keep everyone posted as to how I get on, if you could also do the same.

I feel i should judt say "BE CAREFULL", as this method can be dangerous. Sorry, had to say it.

Wayne.

Looks good wayne

Going to have to watch out for a few things with the fan.

Little difficult to get the spinning part dissasembled from the rest, sometimes the bearings are pressed in.

Also your likely going to run into a little bit of a clearance issue with bolts through the plastic so best to dissasemble the fan first to see how much room you have under the hub. It might not be much so might be best to have some countersunk bolts go through the plastic side and the nuts on the glass side.

And just to confirm, I've been running some of my 80mm computer fans rated at 12v at 7v for a while know and they spin (slower) without a problem. Less noise too.

Hi Keith,
I have a fan laying around, in this particular case, I could screw in the screws about 3mm with no problems. It maybe difference with other fans though. Im not sure how to take it apart?

Thanks for again confirming the operation at lower voltage, just what we need.

I have been talking to a friend who works with glass, we are trying to improve the method so the glass can be bolted to the fan once and not taken off again then cutting, getting rid of the possibility of it shifting.

I'll keep you all posted,
Wayne.

The biggest problem is "9:Cut the glass exactly on the line with a circular glass cutter."

There's no way to truly center the cutter.

Perhaps a better idea is to do what is done in all forms of manufacturing to produce balanced rotating assemblies: People do not try to cut something in such a way as to be on-center both in terms of concentricity and center of mass. Instead we just get the thing as concentric as possible, then take the rotating assembly to a balancing shop. Look in the yellow pages. (I assume they are yellow in Europe ;-) ).

If all you can find is a manufacturer, try them. Most balancing machine manufacturers perform it as a service for about $35 for something like yours.

Worst case you could call Turbo Technics in England, explain that your disc is non-automotive and spins only a few hundred rpm, and ask them to steer you toward even just a shop with a non-VSR balancer.

I am sure you will find it easy to get it balanced FAR better than a person could ever achieve by eyeballing it.

And grind the surface first, before balancing, not after!

P.S., One would hate to see you go to this trouble and then crush or break the disc upon tightening. You may want to use rubber washers on both sides of the fasteners through the disc.

And were it me, I would make sure the motor spins counterclockwise (by reversing the polarity sent to the motor, if needed) so there's no tendency for the bolts to loosen over time.

Thanks for your tip Bill. Ill certainly think about that if I fail.


P.S., One would hate to see you go to this trouble and then crush or break the disc upon tightening. You may want to use rubber washers on both sides of the fasteners through the disc.


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, this will 'dampen' the pressure in the glass surface. Thanks.



And were it me, I would make sure the motor spins counterclockwise (by reversing the polarity sent to the motor, if needed) so there's no tendency for the bolts to loosen over time.

I would have never thought of that. Something I will do. Thanks again.

Wayne.

Bought the project box today, here are 2 pics of it (sorry a bit over exposed):

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/DSCI0074.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/DSCI0075.JPG

Outer dimensions are: 150x100x60mm

Inner dimensions are: 145x95x57mm

The box was £4.29 at maplin electronics store (UK version of radio shack)

Wayne.

OK peeps,

I have received the PC fan, as stripped it down as per my tutorial here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/final/glass.htm


Here are some pictures of the fan:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/final/DSCI0082a.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/final/DSCI0083a.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/final/DSCI0085a.jpg

The fan is very quite indeed. Good thing is it already had marks on top where the screws will go which was handy.

Just waiting for my diamond drill bits and glass cutter now. I'll keep you all posted.

Thanks,
Wayne.

I wonder if consistancy in the ground glass face will be an issue. I know flicker can be a problem with these types of adapters.

Thanks Jonathan,
I know that was an issue on the plastic cd version, but the glass version will be ground with aluminium oxide creating a very uniform surface. Im confident there will be no flickering, but the proof is in the pudding.

Wayne.

Thanks Jonathan,
I know that was an issue on the plastic cd version, but the glass version with be ground with aluminium oxide creating a very uniform surface. Im confident there will be no flickering, but the proof is in the pudding.

Wayne.

Good luck with it!

Jonathan-

Thanks Jonathan,

As im still waiting on my glass cutting tools, I thought I would test out my method on a plastic disk to see if i could get it to spin central. It works perfectly well. I added a last step and touched the edge of the disk with sand paper while it was spinning to really make sure it was all central.

I have rubber washers/grommets on the screws to prevent the screws from cracking the glass (well, when it is glass).

Here are some pics:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/final/DSCI0086a.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/final/DSCI0087a.jpg

Can wait to start experimenting with glass.

Wayne.

Recieved my diamond drill bits this morning. Will do some practise drilling first then proceed with the next step. Ill post some images later.

Wayne.

OK,
Turns out the drill bits i got form ebay were a heep of s**t. Made from soft metal so the drill war down before getting very far. Only drilled 1 test hole.

I have ordered a better quality drill bit from a DIY store, so will continue then.

Wayne.

Wayne,

Just a tip or two, but, did you cool and lubricate the bit at all? The best way to do this is to use a steady flow of machining coolant or at least water. Second best way is to use a soft washer (rubber or something) around the hole, to hold the coolant/water in.

Also with glass you have to use very light pressure and go very slowly. Even a good bit will act like the ones you tried, if you use too much pressure or operate them without cooling/lubricant.

One more thought I had forgotten til now, which is, when the drill bit breaks through the other side it will may break or at least crack the glass. For brittle materials with a grain structure like glass, you will want to drill a hole halfway through, from each side.

Wayne,

Just a tip or two, but, did you cool and lubricate the bit at all? The best way to do this is to use a steady flow of machining coolant or at least water. Second best way is to use a soft washer (rubber or something) around the hole, to hold the coolant/water in.

I read about using lubricant for cutting glass but that was for cutting lines, so didnt relate that to drilling holes, simple really. The drill bits were crap though, i read other ebay member complaining about it (after i bought it, trust me).

The new drill bit i ordered is of a different design, shaped like a spear. Its also made of extremely hard tungsten carbide spear tips, so with this bit, plus cooling with water using your rubber washer method. Thanks for the tip.


One more thought I had forgotten til now, which is, when the drill bit breaks through the other side it will may break or at least crack the glass. For brittle materials with a grain structure like glass, you will want to drill a hole halfway through, from each side.

I was using the method of going half way from either side, thanks for the tips though.

Hopefully next attempt will be more successful, I WILL have a spinning glass solution, plastic is NOT an option;) hehe

Thanks,
Wayne.

Ok,
I have changed my method slighty, not using a perminant marker or circular glass cutter now, but instead replacing the marker with a straight diamond glass cutter. With the glass cutter mounted solidly to a drill press, the the glass and motor mounted solidly under the cutter, the cutter can be lowered onto the glass (instead of the perminant marker), then the fan motor and glass can be rotated.

The cutter will score the glass in the exact position creating a perfectly centred circle. 8 more scores can then be make spaced evenly around the circle, running from the circle to the edge of the glass. Its then just a matter of breaking the 8 peices of glass around the edges of the circle away.

The glass edge can then be cleaned using 120 sandpaper or a sanding block.

This Method means that the glass can be mounted to the fan motor once and not have to be taken off again, preventing any chance of the glass shifting. Obviouslyt the glass should be ground with Aluminium Oxide before being mounted to the motor.

Thanks,
Wayne.

Will the motor shaft be strong enough to support the glass while you press down on its edge with the drill press? I hope it works for you.
From my experience, it seems that cuts work best with a single pass, so I'm assuming you'll be spinning the glass by hand?
Anyway, as for getting the glass disk out, you can use the spiral cut method.
Starting at the edge of the circle, draw the glass cutter across the glass in a slight arc until your within a couple of mm from the edge. Repeat every 30 mm or so around the edge of the disk. Each piece will then simply break off.
With practice, this can leave a very nice edge, and means you only have to use the drill press method once.

G

Glen,
Sorry i forgot to mention, I will be using a model R/C car/airplane wheel under the other side of the glass to support. This plastic whell has a rubber/foam tire, so will not scatch the glass. Thanks for pointing that out.

Yes, Ill be turning the motor by hand this time, by only 1 revolution so the cutter makes makes the score but does not go over it again. The wheel underneith will rotate as the glass does, providing support.

Concerning your method of breaking the glass out, I was doing the same, but with straight lines not an arc, does the arc shape make it easier to break the glass?

Thanks for your input Glen.

Wayne.

I haven't tried the straight line method. I think the point of the spiral is that all cuts from the circle come out at a tangent to it, so that the cracking glass travels more or less along the arc of the intended disk. I've had 3/4 of the glass fall away with one twist using this method, but I have no experience whether it's better or worse than using straight lines.
Airplane wheel for support, eh? Sounds great!

G

Glen,
Thanks again for the tip, i'll try that on my next practise.

Yeah the model plane/car wheel works perfect. Its mounted on a bolt so it can not move relative to the glass/fan, but can spinn freely. The cutter comes down onto the glass, the wheel on the other side takes the pressure. As the glass is turned by hand on the fan motor, the wheel also turns via friction. Constant pressure is kept on the cutter until 1 revolution is made, ending up with a perfectly placed score line.

Thanks,
Wayne.

Genius! It does take a good bit of pressure to get a clean score, but using a rotating wheel as a bed under the glass-cutter sounds like the solution.

Glen,
Just tried your 'spiral method'. It seemed to work better, the glass would break in a much more pradictable way, always on the score line, which was not always the case using straight lines. Thanks again for this tip.

Although im now sitting here with blood running down my finger. Its like my 10th cut. Only small nicks, but i think the glass is trying to give me an early warning about something. I think some very strong safety measures and eye protection will be in order when i first spin the glass on the motor.

Wayne.

seems like your making some progress wayne, glad to hear, but to bad about the fingers. I kn ow that they make stab proof clothing, maybe you can get some gloves made out of it to protect the fingers.

Keith,
I really should take safty more seriously:D

Maybe some simple gardening gloves could be in order. I do stress to anyone thinking of using this method BE CAREFULL!!!!

Wayne.

Wayne: I have the housing, motor, condensers, achromats, ground glass, etc...but I am undecided on the best way to mount the glass to the motor shaft.

I am thinking there should be a rubber interface for two reasons: #1 - To reduce the chance of shattering due to sudden movements (if the glass is rigid-fixed to the shaft) #2 - To allow the glass to automatically even / balance itself out (because I am working with low-tech tools and can't guarantee it will be mounted in such a way as to have no Z/depth-motion - so it is easier for me to let it spin itself straight.)

What you've posted about mounting the glass, THEN spinning it slowly and marking the circle - that is an excellent idea. However, I don't have a circular glass cutter so that wouldn't work well for me.

I've sortof slowed down on experimentation due to hurricane Katrina and some house damage (no electricity or phone service at home at the moment), but I will be sure to post pictures when I get something going.

Thanks!

Frank,
Nice to see you here! i changed my method so you only nee a normal straight line glass cutter, if the cutter can be hold on the glass in a fixed position, then rotate the glass in the fan motor by hand, there by scoring the glass in a perfectly centred circle. I used a small model car/airplace wheen on the other side of the glass under the cutter to support the pressure of the cutter.

I hope you succeed with your method, frank.

Wayne.

And there we have it! 1 spinning ground glass.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/spinning%20ground%20glass.jpg

Thanks,
Wayne.

Nice job! Good on ya for persevering.

Way to go! You gotta be feeling pretty good about that!
Congratulations.

G

Thanks Bill and Glen,

Yeah I got there in the end, modified my original method slighty, but got there. Hope to have the thing all housed and some test footage up tomorrow, only if people are interested though.

Glen, yeah it feels pretty good, at times i thought it was not going to work, but i JUST DID NOT want to use plastic, IT HAD TO BE GLASS!!! Im very happy, still ironing out my method to improve things. BTW, the glass is 1.5mm thick.

I would like to thank Keith Wakeham for helping me with the technical side of the fan motor and also about power options, Greg Boston and Ben Winter for sujestions for centring the disk, Bill Porter and Glen Hurd for help and guidance of glass cutting and thanks for all else for moral support.

Thanks,
Wayne.

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but redrockmicro.com sells replacement ground glass for their spinning system for $25 on their site. Since it's designed for the exact same purpose I bet this would be a good way to go and it's a heck of a lot easier than grinding your own and balancing out the center.

And thanks for the props Wayne!

Yeah, and who's going to NOT be interested in your test footage! :)
Personally, I would look forward to people's test footage everyday, but that's just me.
I'm just now discovering that there are a lot of things to discover regarding choice and placement of lenses for these systems (thanks, in part, to Wayne's pictures -- kinda got me off my a$$ and doing some experiments of my own). There also appear to be some subtle "gotchas," in there too.
So here's to your first spinning glass disk, and to more samples of what it can do. (clink of glasses)

G

Ben,
I have heard that the reddockmicro glass is not actually glass but a type of plastic, i could be wrong though. I also heard that the $25 replacement glass is only for customers that purchased the main unit. Again, correct me if im wrong, but thanks for pointing that out.

Still adjusting the housing and that, but hope to have test footage up later.

Thanks,
Wayne.

Ok guys,
Finally got everything together and got some quick test shots with my new baby. My first impressions are that im very pleased, but i need to adjust the condesor lens as the distance is not correct. Here is the link, 46MB quicktime file:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/Spinning_Adapter_Test03.mov


Please keep in mind that these shots are filmed with a cheap 1 CCD panasonic cam like this one: http://www.skala.nl/usr_img/webshop/19/PA-NVDS30.jpg

You will notice both slight barrel distortion and slight vignetting, but this is due to the condensor distance. You can see the barrel distortion on the shot looking through the balcony rails. As in my experiements in my other thread with the condensor lens, 11mm away from GG seems to be optimum. I'll do some adjusting and get some more shots. There is also a slight bit of dust on the consensor lens. BTW, im recording the full 36x24mm frame area.

Anyhow, let me all know what you think so far. Im also working on a commercial unit with 15mm rod support that will be coming in the near future.

Thanks,
Wayne.

Ok guys


SWEET!!!!!
(the aspect ratio seems a little off though, that fan looks rather oblong! ;-)


Nice job; looks awesome!

Someone did it with REAL glass.. Did I miss it or has someone made a guide for this setup? Cause I'll make one... Also Red Rock is plastic cause I had one and they also went up from $10.00 to $25.00... WOW... Thanks...


OK I found the guide but didn't know if this is the updated guide... Also I've had frosted window film placed on glass before for this purpose and it has been the most crisp of anything I've tried... thanks again

OK the footage looked the best I've seen in a very long time... I think I'm back in the game of making my 3rd adapter... WOW looks very nice...

Craig,
Yes this thread is the most up to date information on my method.

I would love to see someone else try this to. I have a few tricks and modification up my sleeve, but thats for the commercial version. I'll get some more 'adjusted' shots in soon.

Thanks,
Wayne.

Hey Wayne, you've come a long way in a short time and its awesome. Glad its working out. I'm downloading the video now to take a look at it.

Glad that method of cutting the glass worked out as well.

WOW Finally
Someone did it with REAL glass..

Not to take anything away from Wayne's accomplishment, which I applaud, but didn't Nick Bartleet do it with glass months ago?

Good job, Wayne, looks terrific!

Thanks Bill,

Nick's design was a little different, spinning a small peice of glass inside a bearing, but this means thats the glass in the centre of the frame is moving very slowley and in theory the dead centre of the glass is not moving at all. While Nicks design has other physical bennefits (smallers size adapter, doesnt suffer from gyro effect), this part of Nicks design always concerned me and you would need a very clean ground glass but more worrying you would need much higher RPM to dissolve the grain perhaps meaning more noise?

The main concern with my method was gyro effect and the glass shattering under sudden movement. Well, under a few controlled and safe tests, with the glass spinning faster then would be needed, I put the glass under extreme movements and harsh sudden turns (movements you would never dream of putting your camcorder through), and the glass held up fine. I put this down to my design having a much smaller diameter disk then a CD, therefore being much stronger and having smaller gyroeffect.

As I say, im working on a commercial version, that comes with 15mm rod support. Which will feature:

1:15mm adjustable rod support
2:Nikon style lens mount.
3:Adjustable GG speed control via rotary knob.
4:Full 36x24mm frame
5:1 - 2 stops light loss.

The unit will be availible in under a month.

Thanks,
Wayne.

Thanks,
Wayne.

Any Idea of possible cost and also what strength of Acromat? 100X 50X... I have a PDX 10 and have only been able to use a 100X and gert it to work properly... Also what kind of case. RAdio shack Box or a better design... Thanks