I watched tutorials and read the official Apple users guide to learn all the in's and outs of FCPX's new Multicam workflow. Unfortunately I simply can't use it because there's no way for me to mix more than one audio track.

With FCP7 I'd drop all my clips from the various angles on the timeline- sync with plural eyes- then export each angle (due to breaks) as video-only clips (non-self contained) then made a multiclip from them and dropped them back into the timeline. What it did is give me a clean video track for switching my camera angles but left the audio, from ALL cameras, intact, in-sync, and stacked to do my audio mix.

With FCPX it forces you to make your multiclip from the Events folder, and once it's made and dropped to the project timeline you can't break apart Audio/Video (the selection is greed out), you can't even access the channel info in the inspector on a Multicam Clip. I'm racking my brain trying to figure out a work-around. Can anyone offer some insight?

Glen:

I haven't had any problem dragging my multi-cam clips into the timeline and then use "match audio" to sync them before detaching the audio track from the cameras and using the audio from the field mixer and recorder with the synched clips.

D.

I'm having the same issue and it could result in my not being able to use X.

"Match Audio" seems to do nothing for me. But perhaps I'm not understanding how your method would be a solution to the problem. Need to get several tracks in sync underneath the multiclip video.

I have 5 camera angles and 3 audio sources. In the edit I need to blend audio from two sources - and I need to frequently switch which two sources throughout the edit. Sometimes I need priest audio and ambient, then I'll need grooms audio and ambient, then just music audio, then back to priest and ambient, etc,. In a nutshell, the audio cuts/blends have little to do with the which camera angle is active and everything to do with which sources are best.

I need to see the audio tracks below the multiclip so I can do a surgical edits to the audio completely independent from the video cuts.

Exactly Craig, I only want multi cam to edit the video. I want my audio untouched and stacked below the multi clip to raise and lower whatever track or combination of tracks to mix the audio the way I want.

Exactly Craig, I only want multi cam to edit the video. I want my audio untouched and stacked below the multi clip to raise and lower whatever track or combination of tracks to mix the audio the way I want.

I can't even find a work-around to get "the audio tracks stacked under" the multiclip (and in sync).

I'm probably successful in what I want to do because I don't know what I'm doing. I just keep fiddling with FCP X until I find a way to make it do what I want.

On Multicam shoots, I usually record a sound track on a Tascam field recorder using 2-4 channels, depending on the needs. For example, in shooting a large and rowdy public hearing last week I recorded from four mics and then used on-camera mics on a Panasonic AG-HMC80, a Canon 5 D MKII, a Canon 7D and a Sony 560V. In post, I laid down the soundtrack and then added clips from the four cameras and used "match audio" to sync the video on each clip. Then I dropped the camera audios and used the Tascam file for the main sound. Worked smoothly and I was able to deliver a three minute newsclip for a TV station, a six minute clip for a newspaper web site and a DVD of the complete two-and-a-half hour hearing for the county government.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss :)

D.

In post, I laid down the soundtrack and then added clips from the four cameras and used "match audio" to sync the video on each clip.

So I tried the "Match Audio" command. I put a video clip (video w/audio), and an audio track. I put both in the timeline. I selected the audio, then asked me what I wanted to match it to and then clicked to match the clip and then ....nothing. Nothing happened. Audio and video did not sync. My ignorance is not bliss.

Craig:

Don't know why mine works and yours does not. That's strange. What's your setup for editing?

I read somewhere that FCP X has problems matching audio on some DSLR files but I haven't run into a problem yet with files from the 5D or 7D.

D.

Exactly Craig, I only want multi cam to edit the video. I want my audio untouched and stacked below the multi clip to raise and lower whatever track or combination of tracks to mix the audio the way I want.

The match audio has nothing to do with sync... it's just an audio enhancement.

I would be grateful to know if you find a solution. I'll share mine if come up with something.

I said "match audio' when I meant "synchronize clips." That's the command I use to match up the different camera clips with the master sound file form my Tascam field recorder. My mistake.

Once you have the sounds synched you can detach audio from the different camera clips and you have a synched set of clips with the master sound file. Sorry for the confusion.

D.

So Doug, would this scenario work best when sing multiple audio sources to be mixed with multicam?

1. Create "Empty" Compound Clip in the "Event Browser"
2. Open the Empty Compound Clip
3. Place Recorder Master Audio on Primary Storyline
4. Place additional video clips as attached clips to the "Primary Storyline, Main Audio"
5. Synchronize Clips
6. Break apart "Video" clips and delete video, leaving only audio
7. Select "All" media to be used with multiclip (Video and created Compound Clip) (This would most likely be the same media that you used in your compound clip).
8. Create Multiclip
9. Select "Audio Only" in multicam
10. Select "Audio Compound Clip" as audio only to be used in multicam
11. Select "Video Only" for multicam
12. Proceed to edit multicam
13. While in multicam "Open" the compound clip and adjust audio as needed. It seems that while you can't break apart video and audio in multicam, you can open a compound clip to edit (mix) with. Hense my suggested use of a compound clip for an audio mix.

Does this sound about right?

BTW, I created the empty compound clip for the audio, because you can only select media in the "Event Browser" to create muliclips with. And there seems to be no way to get a compound clip from the "Storyline" to the "Event Browser".

Michael:

My head is spinning just reading all that. Maybe I'm a dunce but what I do is load the audio file, click on it and the different clips I want to synch and hit the pulldown men and click "create new multi cam clip" That gives me a clip with all the angles, which I can then pull into the timeline and edit. detach and eliminate the various camera audios, leaving the Tascam audio file which is synced with each clip.

I was also able to do multi cam edits before the .03 update by using "synchronize clips" and syncing the audio file with each of the different cam clips. The new multi cam feature streamlined that process.

I figured it out by trial and error and probably a lot of dumb luck. It helps that I seldom know what I'm doing. I just look for something that works and then do it. :)

D.

Doug,I know that my workflow sounds nuts.

But from what I can tell, once the multiclip is created you can't break it apart in the timeliness.
Just like you can't break apart the audio in the angle editor.

If there's a way yo break apart the multiclip I would love to know how.

Michael:

What I do is pull the multi clip into the timeline and then use the angle view to make the cuts between cameras (using the blade tool). I set the active audio priority to the Tascam audio file and then set the angle viewer to video only for the edits. When you cut between cameras in the angle viewer it updates the multi clip in the timeline to reflect the edits and doing do in video only mode leave the audio track intact. I haven't tried to modify the audio file once the multi clip is created so if there is a way to do that I haven't discovered it yet. But using blade to make the cuts between the camera angles works well for my needs.

D.

What I do is pull the multi clip into the timeline and then use the angle view to make the cuts between cameras (using the blade tool). I set the active audio priority to the Tascam audio file and then set the angle viewer to video only for the edits. When you cut between cameras in the angle viewer it updates the multi clip in the timeline to reflect the edits and doing do in video only mode leave the audio track intact. I haven't tried to modify the audio file once the multi clip is created so if there is a way to do that I haven't discovered it yet. But using blade to make the cuts between the camera angles works well for my needs.


Doug, what your suggesting doesn't seem to allow me to have multiple audio sources active (to be mixed) in a multiclip.
As all you are doing is selecting one audio source, your Tascam for the primary audio.

I don't have an issue with only using one audio source.
But many times I am using the multiclips camera audio as well as recorder audio, or even 2 recorders for my main audio mix. So what I'm after is a way to have more than one audio source active in a multiclip.

This is why I suggested using a compound clip for my main audio source in a multiclip. As you can go into the created audi compound clip (in your multiclip) and open that up and apply and changes, levels, filters etc. to it.

This way you can have multiple audio sources as your main audio source.
I tried it the other night after I had already cerated a multiclip. The original multclip only had separate audio and video clips in it.

I created an empty compound clip and dropped my H4n audio on the primary storyline. Then made sure that the Event browser would only take "Audio Only" from my video clip. And placed my main cameras audio only as a connected clip to the primary storyline.

I then duplicated the camera audio (which had on camera mic and wireless feed) and placed it above the other camera clip. I then made this dual-mono only (as I only wanted the wireless audio feed) and muted one of the channels. I did this for some audio fullness.

Then clips were synced, and I opened up my multiclip, and added another angle and placed the audio clip in the exact same position as the recorder audio in my multiclip as an additional angle. Since the audio was already synced and the recorder audio was the same file and length, the compound clip lined up perfectly.

Now I switch my angle for my audio to be the compound audio clip. And I now have multitrack audio in my multiclip. I can open up the compound clip, while still in the multiclip and edit my audio mix if needed.

Audio mixing is FCPXs weakest point right now if you ask me. As there's no real way to mix your audio (no audio mixer filter) sources either in the main timeline or multiclip.

Michael:

Understood. I seldom try to use more than one audio source. Most of my work is run-and-gun news shoots with some venturing into music, pubic forums and docs. The news clips usually just use a wireless setup directly into a single camera. The docs and music stuff involve more than one camera but still a single audio source.

I agree audio is a weakness in FCP X. It doesn't impact my work much so I can live with it for now. I can still use FCP 7 and PP 5.5 when needed.

Sorry for the confusion. Let us know if you find a way to make multiple audio work in a multi clip.

D.

Audio mixing is FCPXs weakest point right now if you ask me. As there's no real way to mix your audio (no audio mixer filter) sources either in the main timeline or multiclip.

I'm askin' you. lol You totally get it Mike, every damn word you typed, 100%.

It just seems wrong that after being excited about the addition of multicam, then getting the 10 demo and seriously kicking the tires (wait, I even drove those tires through the mud), this question kept popping into my head... "how long can I hold out with FC7?" (I mean really, they already stopped giving me software updates)

Dear Apple, There are some awesome things in FCX, but the audio functionality is so dumbed down that I feel like you're treating me like I ride on the short bus. I need to slice, dice, chop, mix, tweak, and finagle with the audio completely independent of the multiclip video. Audio edits (with multiclips) in FC7 run circles around caveman 10.

Also, don't forget:

Apple - Final Cut Pro - Feedback (http://www.apple.com/feedback/finalcutpro.html)

You never know if it helps...

It's still got a ways to go but there are some good features there.
MacBreak Studio - Episode #148: Audio Editing in Final Cut Pro X - YouTube

Hey folks,

Here's a wee clip I made about my audio workflow with Multicam Clips.

Excuse my poor presenting skills.

MultiCam Audio workflow in FCPX on Vimeo

Your presenting skills were great.

...but these threads are wrapped around the question of how to blend audio sources.

Here's another example. In addition to the creative aspect of what we do, I also provide a raw edit of the wedding reception. Some of it shot with multiple cameras. To make it sound clean but still have a very natural live feel (like you were there), we mix clean DJ mixer audio with camera audio. Often times the mixer audio and camera audio are not as consistent as one would hope for. Throughout the edit I will make volume changes to the mixer audio and cut back and forth between the best camera audio available.

"Get better audio" ...well no - that's not the problem. (hypothetically) I've got one camera in close to the bride on the dance floor and we hear the bride with friends singing. I want that audio source because it is better than a planted microphone. Then on the other side of the dance floor a bridesmaid yelled "we love you guys, whoooh..." and I want to blend in that audio which is also better than a planted microphone. Then 2 seconds later, one of the camera's gets too close to the speakers, now I don't want that audio BUT i DO want the video from that camera because it was an awesome shot! This comes up time and time again in event videography.

So I need to blend and mix audio independent of which camera angle is active. These decisions need to be made on the fly while I'm choosing camera angles.

FCX can't do it.

Haven't tried this, but can't you simply add audio only from each clip as secondary story-lines and then adjust levels as necessary?

Nope. How would you maintain sync across 50 or so clips that succumb to the forces of the magnetic timeline?

Picture this. A multiclip that was shot over the course of several hours. An SLR was used, and the record was started and stopped 50 times.

The only thing I can think of is to duplicate the multiclip for every camera angle, export audio only, then import those audio tracks, then add the new angles (audio only). And even then, FCX doesn't let us blend it. But seriously the thought of this workflow is so ridiculous it makes me want to kill myself.

Your presenting skills were great.

...but these threads are wrapped around the question of how to blend audio sources.

Here's another example. In addition to the creative aspect of what we do, I also provide a raw edit of the wedding reception. Some of it shot with multiple cameras. To make it sound clean but still have a very natural live feel (like you were there), we mix clean DJ mixer audio with camera audio. Often times the mixer audio and camera audio are not as consistent as one would hope for. Throughout the edit I will make volume changes to the mixer audio and cut back and forth between the best camera audio available.

"Get better audio" ...well no - that's not the problem. (hypothetically) I've got one camera in close to the bride on the dance floor and we hear the bride with friends singing. I want that audio source because it is better than a planted microphone. Then on the other side of the dance floor a bridesmaid yelled "we love you guys, whoooh..." and I want to blend in that audio which is also better than a planted microphone. Then 2 seconds later, one of the camera's gets too close to the speakers, now I don't want that audio BUT i DO want the video from that camera because it was an awesome shot! This comes up time and time again in event videography.

So I need to blend and mix audio independent of which camera angle is active. These decisions need to be made on the fly while I'm choosing camera angles.

FCX can't do it.
Geoff, I found a solution for using multi track audio for a multiclip. I create an multi-track audio only compound clip and use this as my laster audio for the multiclip.
I normally use 2-3 audio sources in my mix.

It's a 3 step process...

Create empty Compound clip in the Event Browser then...
1. Open Compound clip and place recorder audio on primary storyline
2. Select "Audio Only" as selection method
3. Select and place Camera 1 and Camera 2 as connected clips to the main storyline. Since you selected "Audio Only" for selection method, only the audio is brought to the timeline.
4. Synchronize audio in Compound Clip

Create MultiClip
1. Select Camera 1, Camera 2, and Compound Audio clip you just created.
2. Open angle editor and check sync
3. In angle editor select "Audio Only" set audio to Compound Audio Clip
4. Select "Video Only" and edit your cuts as needed in the multiclip window

If you need to mix your audio, simply go into the "Angle Editor" and open the Compound Audio clip and adjust your mix as needed. You will have full control over all of the audio in this compound clip, and can cut and delete, adjust your levels, add effects (compressor, limiter, EQ etc.) make l-cuts for audio as needed.

This method worked well for me recently, as when I mixed a wedding ceremony, I had clean harp audio from a H4n for the wedding music. Since I only needed main wireless audio from groom for all audio, I then doubled up my main wireless audio for the ceremony audio. I double this up to get a fuller sound in my mix.

If I had 2 wireless signals going, I would simply mxi the two as needed.

Another thing I was able to do was take additional harp music and remix it into the ceremony as a subtle music bed to further enhance the edit.

Thanks Craig.

Hopefully with more later updates Apple refine the multi-cam feature to make working with audio better, without having to work out complex & time consuming work-arounds.

I was using Pluraleyes prior to the FCPX multi-cam update. Pluraleyes have since updated their soft are to include multi-cam clips.

Thinking about it that may be be worth looking at because you can sync your footage into a new project, plus with the new Pluraleyes update you can also create multi-cam clip. Although I haven't used plural eyes since the FCPX update, so not 100% sure if it will create both a new synced project and a multi-cam clip, or just one or the other.

So you should have the synced project where you could edit your audio the way you want, then turn that into a compound clip. Then add the multi-cam clip to that project and cut the video.

This is kinda similar to Michael was suggesting, but with potentially less steps.

Thinking about it that may be be worth looking at because you can sync your footage into a new project, plus with the new Pluraleyes update you can also create multi-cam clip. Although I haven't used plural eyes since the FCPX update, so not 100% sure if it will create both a new synced project and a multi-cam clip, or just one or the other.

Scott, I believe the answer to that is yes, both multiclip and synced project will be cerated.

See this video for details.
PluralEyes for Final Cut Pro X (with multicam) - YouTube (http://youtu.be/hx9wuAhx2kk)

With FCPX it forces you to make your multiclip from the Events folder, and once it's made and dropped to the project timeline you can't break apart Audio/Video (the selection is greed out), you can't even access the channel info in the inspector on a Multicam Clip. I'm racking my brain trying to figure out a work-around. Can anyone offer some insight?

So Glen, I'm curious if Michaels solution worked for you? I hadn't tried it until today, but it's so much easier than I first thought after reading this entire thread. I like the way Michael lays everything out in steps, but don't let that intimidate you like it did me at first.

You can do it one of two ways. You can create your multicam clip first, build your multicam project as usual and then create and add your compound clip to the multicam project last. Or, you can simply create your compound audio clip first, then create your multicam clip using your compound clip as your main audio "camera angle"

The first time I experimented with this, I created my compound audio clip after I already had a multicam project created.

From the event browser, command-select all of the associated clips (i.e. camera angles and separate audio soundtracks from your H4's or what have you) and chose to sync those clips to create a new compound clip. Once you have created your compound clip, you may want to insert markers or other type of meta data if you wish indicating where specific portions of your different sections start, just as a reference point mind you, not for any kind of syncing purposes) then break apart clip items (audio and video) and delete the video portions. You can then simply add your compound clip to your existing multicam project, sync it to the monitoring track and use the new compound audio clip as your main soundtrack. You further manipulate your audio by opening the audio up into the timeline and adding audio key frames to edit your multiple track soundtrack as desired.

For others reading this, again, it's not as complicated as it sounds. You just need to ensure you have a good understanding of how to sync clips using audio to create then edit compound clips, add angles to and sync the new angle to your multicam clip, and manipulate your audio in the timeline of the multicam clip. If you don't know how to do any of that then your SOL and you need to purchase some basic FCPX training. I would suggest Ripple Training, or the FCPX courses at MacProVideo.com. Just remember, you get out of it what you're willing to put into it. Thanks again for the direction there Michael!

First off: I've never done multicam but that's on my list of things to do so I have an interest in this discussion. Also, most of the discussion here involves steps I've yet to take and; consequently, don't fully understand.

However, in following this thread there has been a thought that I keep thinking of and wondered if it would be of any help.

The video is recorded in increments, a frame at a time (as I understand it). One can "zoom in", so to speak, and view each single frame in the video line.

The audio, I think, is recorded continuously. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I look at my track the audio appears to be continuous.

So, if one tried to insert a B-cam video track it would seem that it would have to be a full frame and not a partial. Would this be correct? If so, If the B-cam frame rate wasn't sync'd exactly the same as the main camera, then there would be a minuscule amount of audio time difference at each end of the inserted video track. Did I explain this okay?

If the first and last frame of the inserted track is butted end-to-end with the main track and not overlapped, the would have to be some audio time difference.

Fortunately I don't have to worry about these details for now as I've got other problems to work on. Hope this provides some thought without throwing the thread off course.

I've only tried one project in FCPX using multiple audio sources and it gave me fits. I have a rare wedding tomorrow and I've been trying to decide whether it's worth it or not to even try it in X. I feel like I'm taking a huge step backwards, but I'll load it up and see what happens.

Thanks for the info Michael.