Just saw this tweet from CineAltaNews. Any idea what's up?

https://twitter.com/#!/CineAltaNews/status/164518234102562817

I know! (but it's my own conspiracy theory.) After reviewing the feedback of suggestions for 1.4 firmware, Sony will release 'optional' $$$$ software allowing 4:2:2 and 50Mbps straight out of the camera.

My guess: Free S-Log 4:2:2 Output.

That would be great for me, but jeez, if you paid four grand for it... :(

Free s-log would make sense, although it would only demonstrate Sony's concerns over the Canon C300, which comes with its own log. A big announcement should be something that the Canon can't match.

Well it is the S-Log for FREE.

Actually it's for 899$, but as it comes on a 32GB SxS card (worth 899$)
it's actually for free now.

Hmmmm. I brought S-Log at full price about 4 weeks ago. It has been on back order, so I still don't have it yet. I think I will have words with the dealer about a refund...

Yea, not good for those of us that paid full price.

Yea, not good for those of us that paid full price.

I am with you on that.. *grabs pitchfork and heads to Sony*

Word is that the S-Log is $899, but you may have to send the camera into Sony. If that is true (and it is not confirmed) I wonder if the "remove" option is disabled. If someone removed it, then you wouldn't have a way to re-install. Let's see how this plays out. With the features on the C300 they should make S-Log and 50Mbps low cost or no cost. Refunds for previous purchases. Sony is bleeding money anyways, they ought to light a fire under the F3 before C300s saturate the market.

I hope I get some money back. I was already very irked by the $3680, and now I'm doubly so.

You will have to send it in to Sony for the upgrade. No card is included. I'm happy for everyone that can take advantage of the lower price but p***ed that I paid full price for it. I am looking for the best way to express my dissatisfaction with Sony. And NO, a rebate on other Sony products that I don't need or want isn't going to make me feel any better about it.


From @CineAltaNews Peter Crithary on Twitter:
#F3, #PMWF3 owners that wish to purchase #SLog RGB444 option $899.00 call #Sony service & book it NJ 201-833-5300 or LA 323-352-5000

I am looking for the best way to express my dissatisfaction with Sony. And NO, a rebate on other Sony products that I don't need or want isn't going to make me feel any better about it.


You took the words out of my mouth. $2000 is about my threshold these days for "not a big deal" in camera gear land, and the S-Log upgrade crossed that line by a fair margin. I essentially paid a $2700 premium to use it on 3 jobs since I bought it in September, that's $900 per job.

And to repeat, discounts on gear I don't want, let alone don't need is not going to make it better. If it was a discount on ANY Sony gear, I might be ok. But I already bought that 17" OLED monitor too.

I keep seeing (USA Only) in relation to this. It looks like yet another painful Sony market segmentation exercise for us in Australia. We never get these promotions extended down here.

So here I am, having just paid over $4000AU, and now having been waiting a month for it on back order and not even having it yet, I see it offered to US users for around 80% less.

Thanks Sony :(

I was just about to pull the trigger on a F3. This would have sent me over the edge. I love my EX3, but an almost 3K mistake would have been major. Sony needs to make this right.

First they let US citizens pay 25 percent less then Europeans and on top of that they give you SLog. Sony seems not to be aware that over here we join forums too. In the Netherlands the average price point for a PMW-F3L is 14000 euro's (ex VAT). You paid that same amount in... ouch... dollars. Let's hope they make it a free download over here.

I have voiced my dis-pleasure to my rep, not sure what that is going to do.

I certainly don't want money off future sony products, thats for sure.. argh.

Here is a fair deal for Sony to consider. Anyone who has already dished out approximately $3700 for s-log should be offered a 50% discount on either one of the new PL mount lens for the F3.

Sony send instructions to the retailers (eg.) Abel Cine, B&H to make the offer to past recorded purchasers of the CBK-RGB01 and then you have a few months in which to take up the offer.

That is a fair and honest deal, creates good customer relations, encourages people to buy Sony in future........

Nnnnoooo, loyalty counts for very little these days.

Wow I've never been so happy to be a late adopter. I guess I have to figure out a way to get rid of the SxS card afterwards but that's still pretty sweet. From what I've been reading (has sony confirmed any of this?) people who bought early will get 2500 bucks towards the SR-R1 deck or one of the sony Servo lenses.

I literally was getting the urge and wanted to pay off a couple of bills before purchasing this, now I'm thankful that I did. Can't wait to start playing with my mini Alexa.

I just had a read of the CineAlta News on Twitter. Man, that peeves me big time. So there is a discount for the wide angle zoom lens, but only around 33%.

Clever marketing, but quite deceitful none the less.

Videocraft kindly refunded my as yet after a month backordered S-Log purchase. Hopefully Sony Australia comes through with this deal soon too. I could fly to LA and back, getting S-Log installed, for half the price I'd pay here now.

David, how much was the CBK-RGB01 from Videocraft, in Australian dollars? Last year I was quoted a price near $4000, so I chose Creative Media in the UK at around 20% less.

Hope your work with Conspiracy 365 is successful locally.

$4065AU inc GST. Buying local can be critical sometimes, despite the premium, if issues occur. Local warranty and service cuts down time significantly.

Conspiracy was a bit of a nightmare six months :) No fault of the crew or the F3...

Directly from a Sony Rep.

"While supplies last" is an interesting ringer in that announcement. To me this sounds like they are not intending to continue supporting the F3 on some level. Probably implies a new version "F4" with sLog included and perhaps 422 50Mb recording? perhaps 4K? Perhaps decent EVF? It would likely be at a similar price point if dropping the F3. It sure as hell would be nice to know before dropping another $1000.

I think it implies they are going to start including s-log from the factory. The real question will be if the price of the camera will move up $1k to cover it.

Its not likely the F3 will be updated till its in the market for 24-36 months.

Lots of rumors about an F4 but that may not mean anything at all.

When there's a new camera, it's not going to be called an F4. The number 4 is bad luck in Japanese culture and Sony won't use if for a camera model. An F5 or F3R is more likely.

.....perhaps 422 50Mb recording?
Be nice wouldn't it? And not too difficult to do - and a good answer to the C300.
perhaps 4K?
Far less likely. It would mean a completely new chip, and that's a big deal, let alone codec, recording etc implications. The F3 chip has dimensions which suit 1080 video well after deBayering - but is of no use for 4k.

At 1080 the differences between the C300 and the F3 aren't that great in quality respects, the difference is that the C300 chip is also suitable for 4k in the future - the F3 chip isn't.

It's a long stretch to say the C300 sensor is suitable for 4K? Even RED with a higher pixel density can barely resolve a real 3K in their faux 4K. I dare say the F65 is the only S35 sensor around that could hit a real 4K.

When there's a new camera, it's not going to be called an F4. The number 4 is bad luck in Japanese culture and Sony won't use if for a camera model. An F5 or F3R is more likely.

I am waiting for the F7.

Oh ya, well then I'm going to wait for the F9!

After investing $3680 for the S-Log upgrade only weeks ago, you might say that I was royally upset when the price reduction announcement appeared. I understand that most F3 owners will not likely take advantage of the rebate offers, but I had been debating the pros and cons of the 14x zoom. Considering that the ultimate rebate equates to the rough equivalent of the original S-Log upgrade price, I decided to purchase one ... not sorry I did. Despite its maximum and iris ramping aperture issues, the lens is very sharp (sharper than my Nikon 80-200 ED 2.8, and 17-35 ED 2.8) and contrasty. I haven't had much opportunity to put it through the hurdles yet—have only had it for 24hrs and the outside weather is nasty—but I have made some indoor tests with available light and have not been disappointed. The auto features have their place and will come in handy, particularly for a one man show with a monopod. The Steady cam feature is a nice addition as well. As lenses go, once you subtract the currently available rebates, it's really a bargain. Will post again once the rain stops.

It's a long stretch to say the C300 sensor is suitable for 4K?
For a Bayer sensor you should be able to get luminance resolution of about 80% of the sensor dimensions after deBayering. So it's true enough that the "4k" that the C300 sensor should give won't be as good as what would be expected from a 3 4k chip design, or a 5k deBayered and downscaled design.

But what will be the case is that the difference between it's current use for 1080p and using it deBayered with 4k recording is likely to be significant and worthwhile - of the order of 60% on each axis. For the F3 chip, 1080 recording is capturing as much as it's capable of.

I have made some indoor tests with available light and have not been disappointed. The auto features have their place and will come in handy,

Hi Ron, its interesting to get your feedback on the zoom lens as I haven't read many comments from people who have used it.

Am interested to hear a little more about how low light performance with the zoom compares for example with that of an EX1/3. (Obviously different cameras with different purposes but most of us are familiar with how the EX1/3s perform in low light so a reasonable reference point.)

Also be interested in any more feedback you may have on the auto focus.

Many thanks.

After investing $3680 for the S-Log upgrade only weeks ago, you might say that I was royally upset when the price reduction announcement appeared. I understand that most F3 owners will not likely take advantage of the rebate offers, but I had been debating the pros and cons of the 14x zoom. Considering that the ultimate rebate equates to the rough equivalent of the original S-Log upgrade price, I decided to purchase one ... not sorry I did. Despite its maximum and iris ramping aperture issues, the lens is very sharp (sharper than my Nikon 80-200 ED 2.8, and 17-35 ED 2.8) and contrasty. I haven't had much opportunity to put it through the hurdles yet—have only had it for 24hrs and the outside weather is nasty—but I have made some indoor tests with available light and have not been disappointed. The auto features have their place and will come in handy, particularly for a one man show with a monopod. The Steady cam feature is a nice addition as well. As lenses go, once you subtract the currently available rebates, it's really a bargain. Will post again once the rain stops.

Have you seen an official announcement from Sony on the 14x Zoom rebate? On their rebate page, I can't seem to find it.

For a Bayer sensor you should be able to get luminance resolution of about 80% of the sensor dimensions after deBayering. So it's true enough that the "4k" that the C300 sensor should give won't be as good as what would be expected from a 3 4k chip design, or a 5k deBayered and downscaled design.

But what will be the case is that the difference between it's current use for 1080p and using it deBayered with 4k recording is likely to be significant and worthwhile - of the order of 60% on each axis. For the F3 chip, 1080 recording is capturing as much as it's capable of.

You "might" get close to 3K in ideal circumstances, pointing it at a res chart that doesn't move. More likely 2.5K in general use. Plonking that into a 4K bucket just increases your data processing and storage overhead for no gain.

Hi Steve,
There are actually two rebates that may nor may not apply to everyone. The first is a $1200 Loyalty Rebate and here is the link: Current Promotions (http://www.sony.com/F3SLOGloyaltyrebate)
The second is a $2500 rebate that is mentioned on the B&H website but has yet to appear on the Sony rebate site. I'm assuming that Sony has yet to add that to their site. If your purchase conditions apply, I've been assured that they are stackable for a total of $3700.00.

Hi Simon,
You are correct. There are very few reviews of the 14x Zoom, however, what little I did read was encouraging, so much so, that I bought one.
In regards to its autofocus, it works reasonably well. I have only had the lens since yesterday and it's been raining here in S Florida. Therefore, all of my testing has been indoors with available—incandescent or natural—lighting. The autofocus is not lightening fast—but fast enough—under these circumstances and very accurate (no hunting and no visible breathing). I will reserve any further comments in this regard until I've had some time with it outdoors. The IS does what it's supposed to do and is welcomed feature.

As for light sensitivity as compared to the standard lens on an EX1/3, not sure a direct comparison can be made, given the inherent sensitivity of the F3 and the Zoom's variable lens speed. At first glance, however, one would assume that its t3.9-6.8 limitations would make it much slower than the EX1/3. However, since the F3—especially with S-Log engaged—is inherently more light sensitive than those two reference cams, it seems to serve as a mitigating factor. And since I no longer own either (did have an EX3) I am unable to make a direct comparison. That said, I think we can assume that in typical "low light" conditions this lens would not be my first choice, but at this point I'm only guessing. More than 90% of what I record is outdoors and would not benefit from shallow DOF, making this lens a good choice for my all around carry. But if the situation demands a faster lens it's easy enough to remove it and hang one of my Nikons or Zeiss primes.

Thanks Ron. I look forward to your footage and comments on the new lens,

Thanks Ron. Really helpful feedback.

You "might" get close to 3K in ideal circumstances, pointing it at a res chart that doesn't move. More likely 2.5K in general use. Plonking that into a 4K bucket just increases your data processing and storage overhead for no gain.
I think those figures are very pessimistic.

As evidence, look at the F3. It's known that the effective sensor count is somewhere close to 2456x1372 (the actual count including the masked pixels is 2468x1398), yet it delivers performance very good in terms of 1080 recording. Extrapolating what you say about a 4k sensor only giving "more likely 2.5k in general use", that would imply F3 performance equivalent to about 1500x875. In practice it's much better.

I'd heard somewhere around 80% as a ballpark figure, and the F3 results back that up. So horizontally the C300 sensor would be predicted to have around "3.2k" when fully deBayered. Maybe not "true 4K", but surely wrong to describe it as "no gain"?

Likewise remember that in the C300 the sensor does not use a considerable number of photosites round the edges - it windows 3840x2160 of a somewhat bigger sensor. Those could be used to give a somewhat bigger inprovement than the above suggests.

Good points Ron. I've had my 14x lens for just a week now and I'm really beginning to like it. Although the speed of the lens isn't constant, I was surprised to see that most of the ramping actually happens between 100 to 252mm. This makes the 18-100 range much more usable than I was expecting. It is quite slow at the longer lengths but the sensitive F3 chip goes a long way to compensate. And of course, you get the impression of a shallower DOF at the longer lengths anyway... (before I get flamed - I know it isn't !!!).

I've never been a fan of auto-focus on any camera but I must say the MF assist is really quite good. Never having had an EX3 or 1, I didn't know what to expect, but as long as your subject isn't moving around too much, it's a good aid for 'run and gun' type shooting. I find the full AF a bit slow for my use but it is very smooth. The steadishot works well hand held... but don't forget to turn it off with tripod use as it does seem to float around a bit on static tight shots.

What's really surprised me is how sharp this lens is. Really zingy at anything up to around 100mm even wide open. It's also proved a good colour match for the Sony T2 Kit primes.

There's a couple of things I don't like about this lens mainly involving the servo zoom. It's noisy - admittedly only at full speed, but you would hear it in a two camera interview situation. The take-up speed of the zoom rocker (I think this is also called ramping) it also too sharp for my tastes... and I can't see how to adjust it? You notice this when you want to start a very slow zoom or creep in... ie. you can't! The rocker's also in the wrong place but I knew that before I bought the lens.

In short - I'm very happy with this lens. It's super sharp and really useful up to 100mm or so. When you do need to crash in for a very tight shot it also helps not to have to change lens with tight budgets, no time and a director breathing down your neck. It doesn't replace fast primes but it does transform the overall usability of the F3 for all sorts of work I wouldn't have considered for this camera before.

Attached is a document I received from Sony explaining all of the rebates.

Ned Soltz

Hi Paul,

I agree that the steady shot works, but after giving it a more intense trial this a.m. I've noticed that its benefit is more subtle than I had originally thought. And in some A/B tests with the lens set on its tele end (with and without) its effect is hardly noticeable. Has that been your experience, or do I have a mechanical issue with the lens?

Hi all: Do you think it's worth starting a new thread on the zoom lens, given the new rebate and the discussion going on here? Can we move some of this thread to a new one?

You have my vote.

Oh ya, well then I'm going to wait for the F9!

Ok.. I hear there is a F11. Think Spinal Tap! Cheers Doug.

I think those figures are very pessimistic.

As evidence, look at the F3. It's known that the effective sensor count is somewhere close to 2456x1372 (the actual count including the masked pixels is 2468x1398), yet it delivers performance very good in terms of 1080 recording. Extrapolating what you say about a 4k sensor only giving "more likely 2.5k in general use", that would imply F3 performance equivalent to about 1500x875. In practice it's much better.

I'd heard somewhere around 80% as a ballpark figure, and the F3 results back that up. So horizontally the C300 sensor would be predicted to have around "3.2k" when fully deBayered. Maybe not "true 4K", but surely wrong to describe it as "no gain"?

Likewise remember that in the C300 the sensor does not use a considerable number of photosites round the edges - it windows 3840x2160 of a somewhat bigger sensor. Those could be used to give a somewhat bigger inprovement than the above suggests.

I used your figure of 80%. That's 3072. 3K. Best case. Look, all you've written will not make that 4096. The C300 chip will not shoot 4K, it is not suitable for 4K I can't even see how you can prevaricate on that?.

I used your figure of 80%. That's 3072. 3K. Best case.
"4k" is normally taken to refer to 4096, and by my maths 80% of that is 3276.8 - not 3072. Compared to 1920 that's an increase of just over 70% on each axis.
Look, all you've written will not make that 4096. The C300 chip will not shoot 4K, it is not suitable for 4K I can't even see how you can prevaricate on that?.
And if you go back to my earliest posts you'll see no claim it will make "true 4K". Look right back at post 34 as example:
So it's true enough that the "4k" that the C300 sensor should give won't be as good as what would be expected from a 3 4k chip design, or a 5k deBayered and downscaled design.

But what will be the case is that the difference between it's current use for 1080p and using it deBayered with 4k recording is likely to be significant and worthwhile - of the order of 60% on each axis.
Is that clear enough?

(The 60% is by comparison with Quad-HD - 3840 - 70% is by comparison to 4096, which the C300 chip is capable of.)

Many cameras over the last few years have claimed "1080 recording" but have not been able to manage 1920x1080 resolution (eg the HVX200 with 960x540 chips, and res of about 1150x650). Should it have been the case that if "true 1080" couldn't have been achieved everybody should have just stayed with SD in the meantime? I don't think so.

In this case, a 60-70% res increase per axis over 1080 seems well worth the effort - even if it's not the full 100-110% that "true 4k" would achieve. And the reason for ending up with a 4k raster recording (as opposed to a 3.2k recording) is that the chip deBayers easily to that resolution, no downscaling is needed, and it ends up a common standard. Hence the reason for "plonking the 3.2k into the 4k bucket" as you put it. Very similar reasoning to the design of the HVX200 and the choice of 960x540 chips. Easy processing to a "1080 bucket", even with the pixel shift.

The C300 only has 3840 pixel horizontally. Hence 80% is 3072. Good lord. Take your shifting goal posts elsewhere please.

If you think something that could resolve 3K with a very strong tail wind is suitable for 4K, good luck to you. I'm going shooting.