I just finished building my osc. 35mm adaptor, which works greater than I ever hoped for. Very small grain, low loss of light and silent enough. But my XL-1 is really not good enough for what I want to do. I have been thinking about buying the XL2...but the XL-2 is as you properly know dv...not hdv or even dvcam. How much image information is lost by using normal dv? I have bought the mini35 macrolens for the xl-1 which I want to reuse since it cost about 1200 euros which makes me want to go with the xl. So my questions are these: Do you suspect that canon will release an XL-2s within a year with dvcam or hdv? and is hdv really so much better?

Thanks

-Anders

One of the main limitations of DV video is it's horrible resolution (about 500 lines) compared to film's (about 4000 lines). HD video is just that much closer (I don't know how many lines but it's more towards 4000 than it is towards 500) towards getting the great look of film. There's no question that HD is the future of cameras (Consumer camcorders, at least).

However, since HD video is more detailed, it's much more likely to be sensitive to things like grain from ground glass, even if that is vibrating. It's inevitable that a better SLR DV adapter will have to be specially conceived for HD cameras.

Academy aperture is actually just under 3,000, not 4,000. HD is of course 1080. So it is not a lot closer toward 4000 than 500. However, because of film-to-film generation loss, poor projection quality (from such factors as simple as turning up the lamp brightness on the projectors), and forced limited print contrast range of from 6 to 8 stops, the 1920x1080 8 or 10 bit capabilities of high definition video converted to 35mm print film can be indistinguishable and thus quite useful for filmmakers who still want a feature film print release.

But, you can still do quite well with miniDV, including your XL-1. Evidence of this is that the visual effects industry has been working at about 1500 lines of resolution for years. And, hundreds of films are shot on 16mm and miniDV movies and blown up for feature film release. Some people (snobs in my opinion) may say such films "fall apart" in the theaters but the moviegoer who is not a film or camera buff doesn't leave the theater thinking about any perceived resolution loss.

Besides, what are you doing with your XL-1? There have been some really nice looking films shot on XL-1's.

Hey Anders, are you mounting your adapter over the stock lens or directly to the XL's lens mount like the P+S mini35?

I think you would sure see some gain on switching to a XL2, even if not as much as if you go HDV.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

I think that I will go with the XL-2...But I would be really annoyed if the XL-2s was realeased in a couple of months. But then again the XL-2 has more than twice the amount of pixels compared to the XL-1 and 28 days later didn't look all that bad.

To Michael: I attach it directly onto the XL-1 thereby loosing less F stops and also getting a better image. Actually I think that my adaptor lets in more light with a nikon 50mm F1,4 - than the stock canon lens.....

I have also been looking at the JVC GY-HD100. I think I should be able to convert my relaylens to fit it as well. But what are your thought upon that camera compared to the XL-2. In Denmark where I live the two cameras cost the same. If I were to import a pal GY-HD100. Where would you recommend me buying it?

Can you post a link to a pic of your rig? What type of relay lens are you using? How do you attach it to the XL1's mount?

About your HD100 question, if they cost the same over there, I would go with the HD100. You still have all the XL2 features plus 720p. Just my opinion.
by the way, how much a HD100 cost over there?

The JVC is about 5700 $ without tax....same as the XL-2.

I just uploaded some images for your viewing pleasue ;-)

http://www.geocities.com/afsproductions/index.html

Hey, it looks pretty good. I can't see what lens you are using for relay and how you attached the relay straight to the XL mount. Could you elaborate on that?
Is that 5700 Dollars or Euros? Thanks.

Are the JVC's already available in Europe and/or Japan?

I've just ordered a JVC GY-HD100 and they said that it would arrive about the 20th.

To Michael: The price was in dollars. I actually bought the official Mini35 relaylens which goes straight on the camera....

But now I'll be switching to JVC...so it worn't fit :-( I talked to P+S teknik and they told me that I would need to buy a relaylens for the JVC which cost 1000 euros....arghh. I'm pretty sure that the mini35 relaylens is just a closeuplens in a holster which fits the XL-1...so if they would just let me buy a holster for the JVC....

Can anyone give me some good advise??? Is it possible to get a Canon XL to JVC GY-HD100 converter????

Thanks

It would make sense if they were the same lens, only with a different mount, since they are both 1/3" cameras. Maybe a good machine shop could convert the mount for you. I don't think there's a XL to HD100 converter on the market.
Is the lens a 50mm 35mm lens? What's the minimum focus distance? Do you still have to use an achromatic or condenser lens?

I think I will be the first one to make this adapter, it's on my list to do, please stay tune and when it's available, it will be at my website, thanks.

Quyen

Anyone know where I could get a hold of a bayonet mount as the one on the mini35 which connects to the relaylens?

Which bayonet? Nikon, Canon FD, Canon New FD, Canon EF, Pentax K, or... ?

Well, the thing is that I really don't know. I just own the relay lens and have to connect it to my adaptor. And the relaylens has a bayonet type mount(I believe its called). When you connect the mini35 to the relaylens you put the two mounts together and turn a ring to lock it into place. Do you by any chance know of place which makes them? I'm really a novice in this specific area...

Could you post some pictures so we can better understand what you are talking about?

Yes, you will need to know about your "relay lens;" the specifications as well as what mounting flange it has.

Okay...I will get back with an image of the mount and measurements as soon as I'm able to.

Hi Anders,

How are you doing with your hd100. I also have one and also want to get a lense relay working. Have you had any success with this yet. Are their "ready made" lenses that will work. How many stops do you think you will lose?

regards,

Simon

I've been doing some test with my HD100...and I have absolutely no complaints. But I have only been doing test so I can't really tell yet.

To Simon - I don't think that I would loose any stops. But I don't know yet. I made a quick test and the image seemed to be brighter than with the fujinon stock lens as it was with my canon xl-1.

I need to mount my adaptor to my relaylens. I have som images of the mount that I need to mount i to - using a locking ring of some kind I guess.

www.geocities.com/afsproductions/1.jpg
www.geocities.com/afsproductions/00.jpg
www.geocities.com/afsproductions/03.jpg
www.geocities.com/afsproductions/04.jpg
www.geocities.com/afsproductions/02.jpg

The images are of really bad quality - I know. But I hope someone can help me, by telling me what I can buy which will mount to this mount.

I hope it makes sense

Thanks

Hey Anders, shoot me an email. I might be able to help you.

Hi Anders,
your system dof adapter looks very nice. About your relay lense for XL, I believe it will difficult to put it on JVC, the easiest solution is very likely buy a new one.
I might be interested in to buy your relay lense for XL2 if you come to a situation that you would like to sell it.
Well, maybe you have sold it already.
But if not you can send an e-mail for me too, since you live so "close", and actually your adapter too is very interesting to me.

Cheers

Well, I'm sorry to say that I already sold my relay and the one on the images is the JVC version. Thanks for the comments on my adaptor ;-)

Ok,
Did you really do the dof adapter all by yourself ?
It might look abit like a prototype but it seems to me that it is very well designed.
One more question about the supportrods, are the distances to the lense standard so that you can use normal cinematteboxes made by other manufacturers ?
Maybe one day we can see some footage?
Thanks

I made everything except the osc. mechaniscm myself. Les Dittert engineered that. And I must say that he is one talented fellow. The rods was supposed to match the industri standard. But I couldn't find any facts so I just did the distance as I thought it was.

I just made a quick test with the camera and here are the results with the JVC GY-HD100 and 35 mm adapter:

(pixelated and nowhere near full quality - but it shows what the camera and adaptor can accomplish. It was all made without any artificial lighting and I think it was brighter than the stock lens :-) Looks absolutely perfect in full quality!

www.geocities.com/afsproductions/35mmtest5.jpg

www.geocities.com/afsproductions/35mmtest4.jpg

Tell me what you think.

Looks great Anders! I'm glad you found a way to connect your relay lens to you adapter.

Hi Michael

This is a temporary way I think. So I'm still interested in your help. I will contact you as soon as I have the time to take some good pictures.

Temporary you say? It looks great!
It would be cool to see the original .m2t video file. By the way, have you posted a picture of your rig with the HD100?

Some images of the rig:

www.geocities.com/afsproductions/rig1.jpg
www.geocities.com/afsproductions/rig2.jpg
www.geocities.com/afsproductions/rig3.jpg
www.geocities.com/afsproductions/rig4.jpg
www.geocities.com/afsproductions/rig5.jpg

The rig is actually really stable. So perhaps it is okay the way it is.

Thanks for the post Anders,

Makes a big difference.

Simon

Anders, that looks great. What exactly does a relay lens do? I remember reading that the relay is what makes the XL1/2 a better lens system than the DVXa, but still I wasn't really sure.

Mandy, your 35mm lens is your relay lens. Without your adapter, camcorders (as we know them) have no relay lens.