I've had an opportunity to work with the Cinedeck several times this past year on the PMW-F3 and encountered a number of problems in the field. Power consumption, weight, size and issues with it crashing or not recording an indexed file in some cases. This meant we were always recording 4:2:0 to the SXS cards as backup and having to deal with the image degradation and matching in post. We also tried to use the AJA Ki Pro Mini as well as other solutions with partial successful results.

I chose the Gemini as it is very compact, light weight, conservative power consumption and a reliable platform. I also comes with 2 SSD ports which is a huge benefit over most of the other systems currently available, especially shooting documentary and reality material.

Having said this, the work flow process presents it share of challenges currently. The only SSD reader is a eSata interface powered through a USB connection. This requires an eSata expressport/34 adapter, assuming your MAcBook Pro is older or the 17" model that has the express port and you have a USB port available. If you are on a newer iMAC then Thunderbolt is your only option or a series of adapters (nightmare) to allow for eSata connectivity. On our MAC Pro, we had to purchase a eSata card. Most of the MAC hardware now comes with Thunderbolt, the big benefit it can chain to your RAID system as well (in case of LaCie) solid state drives for quick and easy connectivity. Apparently Convergent Design will eventually have a Thunderbolt solution (we are hoping they will power it through Thunderbolt and eliminate the need for the USB power)

In the field the current system presents all sort of work arounds in order to accomplish a reasonable download process with a MacBook Pro, but it is doable with some patience and ingenuity.

Another consideration is transfer time as the .DPX files are very large. I recommend eSata drives or at least Firewire800 until the Thunderbolt solution is available. Anything slower and you'll be eating breakfast before it's finished.

Mounting the unit is also a major issue whether in studio mode or on location. There is only one 1/4" threaded mount on the back of the unit near the bottom making it difficult to mount on the rear of a camera assemble, using a Noga arm, hard mounting (Panasonic monitor form), inverse mounting (steadicam) or back mount to cheese plate.

Saying this, on the plus side, the 4:4:4 .DPX format allows for pure image data recording and in the case of low light hooting at 1600ISO, the detail of the image was not fully visible by the naked eye. It wasn't until we were in post on a 27" 2K monitor that we found image information not available during recording. The detail in the blacks and high lights was impressive. The Gemini truly utilizes the F3 XMOR sensor making it comparable if not superior to the Arricam Alexa under these circumstances.

There is promise of new recording formats as well as more functionality in the near future. I anxiously await there arrivals. In the meantime, in my opinion, the Gemini 4:4:4 is the most powerful as well as cost effective solution available currently even with some of it's work arounds.

I would like to point out that taxes in Canada start with the base 5% HST and in most provinces an additional 5 - 7% PST are added. That's up to %12 plus the higher price due to the currency exchange and the added freight and duty costs, making it a serious purchase.

This is my F3 with the Gemini on top and my HDx35 with a Fujinon 18x up front. Excellent package for Documentary and Reality work.

Dear John,

Thank you very much for your comments on our Gemini 4:4:4.

1. We designed a solution to the mounting issues you mentioned.

We just received our first production batch of a small aluminum block that mounts on either side of the Gemini 4:4:4 (or nanoFlash).

This block has two threaded screw holes, 1/4" x 20 and 3/8" x 16, each a very strong stainless steel threaded insert.

The block is also powder-coated.

These will be available from www.nanoFlash.net very soon (as soon as today). We will also make these available to all other dealers.

Thus, mounting to a Noga Arm on either (or both) sides is now easily accomplished.


2. Convergent Design will offer a Thunderbolt Transfer Station in 2012.

We met with Intel many months ago, in prepartion for providing this new Transfer Station.

We have been waiting for the Thunderbolt interface chips to become available.

My best estimate at this time is that we will have these available by March 31, 2012 or sooner.

Another solution is the Sonnet Thunderbolt to ExpressCard 34 adapter.

(I believe we have one in our lab, but at this moment I do not know the results of our testing).

3. I recommend using eSATA or eSATAp external hard disk drives.

4. We completely agree, the image quality improvements when going full uncompressed can be significant.

5. Just a few side notes:

The Gemini 4:4:4 works equally well with 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 cameras.

Thus, it is ideally suited for getting the best out of a Sony F3.

It will also record well from the ARRI Alexa using the HD-SDI outputs.

By April, and possibly sooner, we will have our ARRIRAW recording option available.

Our engineers have been working on this extra cost option and are very happy with their progress.

Thus, one will be able to use the (relatively) low cost Gemini 4:4:4 to record ARRIRAW from any Alexa camera.

I agree with John about the workflow issues with the Gemini. Pulling those big uncompressed DPX files off the SSD's is not the simplest task. But you have to remember that this will be pretty much the same with any device recording uncompressed HD footage. If you want the full quality available from cameras like the F3 then that's the penalty you have to pay.

PC users have an advantage currently as many PC's and laptops have integral eSata ports, so connecting everything up is much more straight forward. Over the coming months this will get easier for Mac users as more thunderbolt adapters become available, in particular the Sonnet adapters.

Currently my Gemini workflow for longer projects is to do a first pass transcode to Apple ProRes 444 or Avid DNxHD 444 as I copy the files off the SSD's to a firewire 800 drive. For commercials and shorter projects I'm keeping the DPX files.

Dear Friends,

Happy New Year!

Alister, thank you for posting.

We are working on multiple fronts to make this easier and faster.

1. I have found some wonderful ExpressCard 34 to eSATA, ExpressCard 34 to eSATAp adapters, and nice, small, HDD enclosures with eSATA and eSATAp.

eSATAp is the same as eSATA but it also supplies power over the eSATA cable.

I have used other items from this same manufacturer and they are of the highest quality.

I am importing a sample quantity of these items at this time.
After many days of waiting (and getting concerned), they clearned US Customs last night at 10:54 pm (finally!).

I will be testing these, then making them available.

2. We are attempting to make additional documentation available.

We already have some workflow documents on our webpage, which list the software that can accept DPX.
Most of these has been based on our actual testing of the software, thus it is time-consuming to create these documents.

We are in the process of creating a document recommending certain adapters or cards to add eSATA to various computers.

I have asked our team to prepare a separate Step-by-Step workflow document for each of the programs available that use DPX files.


Please note that there are two basic ways to use the Gemini 4:4:4:

a. In full uncompressed mode, where the DPX files are simply transfered to your computer or external disks.

b. In compressed mode, where the DPX files are used as the source for performing a "First Encode" to the compressed codec of your choice.

This mode is very effective for many users of the Gemini 4:4:4.
For example, one can decide to use ProRes 4:4:4:4 or DNxHD 440 or any other codec.

Also note, that once these initial steps are accomplished,

a. One can use their tried and true compressed workflow if they desire,

b. Or adopt a new full uncompressed workflow which has many advantages,
such as the ultimate in image quality and absolutely no generational loss.

I've had an opportunity to work with the Cinedeck several times this past year on the PMW-F3 and encountered a number of problems in the field. Power consumption, weight, size and issues with it crashing or not recording an indexed file in some cases. This meant we were always recording 4:2:0 to the SXS cards as backup and having to deal with the image degradation and matching in post. We also tried to use the AJA Ki Pro Mini as well as other solutions with partial successful results.
.

I've heard that as well (see post by Thomas Billingsley).

Sony F3 / Cinedeck Extreme / Zeiss Compact Primes Review: Part 3 of 3 Thomas Billingsley|Director of Photography (http://thomasbillingsley.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/sony-f3-cinedeck-extreme-zeiss-compact-primes-review-part-3-of-3/)

When were you using the Cinedeck? I think they've been updating firmware on it to make it more stable, but I'd like to know if they have succeeded.

Anyone have other recent experience as well?

I've heard that as well (see post by Thomas Billingsley).

Sony F3 / Cinedeck Extreme / Zeiss Compact Primes Review: Part 3 of 3 Thomas Billingsley|Director of Photography (http://thomasbillingsley.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/sony-f3-cinedeck-extreme-zeiss-compact-primes-review-part-3-of-3/)

When were you using the Cinedeck? I think they've been updating firmware on it to make it more stable, but I'd like to know if they have succeeded.

Anyone have other recent experience as well?

I have recorded literally thousands of clips on my cinedeck and it has worked great. Its been in some extreme environments and temperatures, and it definately has stood up.

It does use a bit of power, but I typically don't power it up until we are ready to roll, or if I am by AC, I plug it in.

I did have a slight issue with the beta software I used, with playback, but since the official software release, not a single glitch I have encountered.

Not to mention the customer service is top notch, Charles @ cinedeck is AWESOME.

Ryan

Thanks Ryan. What battery do you usually use to power it?

Thanks Ryan. What battery do you usually use to power it?

Hey Steve,

I will fire you off an email!

Ryan

By April, and possibly sooner, we will have our ARRIRAW recording option available.

Our engineers have been working on this extra cost option and are very happy with their progress.

Thus, one will be able to use the (relatively) low cost Gemini 4:4:4 to record ARRIRAW from any Alexa camera.

Will the Gemini 444 be able to record the uncompressed F3 signal to ARRI-RAW?

Dear Duke,

The Gemini 4:4:4, with the ARRIRAW Option will only be able to record ARRIRAW from ARRI cameras.

At this time, the Sony PMW-F3 does not have a RAW Option, thus, we can not record RAW from it.

I thought maybe the Gemini might be getting an ARRI-RAW codec. The Gemini records uncompressed now, and the fact that it doesn't process the signal allows it to record that huge stream of data.

Does the Gemini have enough processing power to ever do any sort of compression?

Dear Duke,

We have not announced compressed modes within the Gemini 4:4:4.

There are many reasons for this:

1. We do not want to be a company that always announces features; then it takes a long time to deliver.

2. We are working very hard on ARRIRAW (and this project is going extremely well).

3. There are technical hurdles in implementing compressed modes in our unit.
To do the very best job for our customers, we have to implement the codec from scratch.

4. We do not want to announce anything until we have proven that we can implement it.


Now, to answer your question, precisely as you wrote it:

"Does the Gemini have enough processing power to ever do any sort of compression?"

The answer is "Yes, Definitely".


Now, to be clear, the amount of processing power to do a codec, say DNxHD 36 is vastly different than doing a very high quality implementation of DNxHD, such as DNxHD 220x or their new 4:4:4 version.

We are seriously listening to our customers, and potential customers in their reqests for a compressed codec option inside the Gemini 4:4:4.

Please forgive me, but many have not realized the following, so we are trying to get the word out.

One can record full uncompressed, then instead of transferring the uncompressed footage to a computer, use the uncompessed footage for the "First Encode" to any codec, any flavor, any bit-rate, it is actually your choice.

And depending on your computer and hard disk drives, it can be a faster process.
On a decent speed computer with fast disk drives, it will be just a little slower than transferring full uncompressed. So, your mileage may vary depending on your comptuer.

And a final technical note:

The "First Encode" is technically identical to having a camera that can encode the full uncompressed data from the camera's sensor, into the codec implemented within the camera.

Most cameras (if not all) have built in just one codec and just a few flavors or bit-rates.

But, using the Gemini 4:4:4, you record the full uncompressed, then have your choice of most any codec during the "First Encode".

Any, if you decide to save the full uncompressed, you have the option to deliver, for example, ProRes to your client, and then later provide DNxHD or any other codec/flavor/bit-rate.

Dan,

I know you guys get the job done and pay great attention to upgrades. I loved all the multiple free firmware upgrades for my Nano that added many new features along the way. If the Nano had been able to be converted to 10 bit I'd have kept it as it would beat all the others.

I am greatly encouraged that the Gemini does have some processing power. I can understand how many could overlook that their data wrangler can do a first encode as they are importing, but tiny productions (most of us) don't have data wranglers or the time. That's when uncompressed.

When the Gemini does have some sort of compression scheme I'll certainly be giving it a second look as a way to get the most out of my camera.

Dear Duke,

Thank you!

Please feel free to call me to discuss the nanoFlash or Gemini 4:4:4.

My numbers are at the bottom of this page.

Support | Convergent Design (http://www.convergent-design.com/Support.aspx)

Hi Steve,

We used both the Cinedeck RX and EX models recording in 4:4:4 uncompressed .MOV on the F3 with S-LOG (and in some cases only with a PP/Gamma control) and the .MXF on the 3700. Two projects were shot in July and one in September. As they were rental units (we were holding out for the Gemini 4:4:4) I can not definitively state which firmware versions were loaded.

We also found that longer records in warmer temperatures would cause the unit to over heat as the fan would cycle down once it started recording. The longer the fan ran between records, the quicker the batteries drained. Most of the time, we were shooting on location with out AC, so the ratio of Dionic 160 batteries on the F3 was approximately 2.5 to 1 and on the 3700 the ratio was approx 2 to 1 (partially due to the servo/zoom)

Hope that helps.

John Banovich, csc, BFM
Director/Field Producer/Cinematographer

Thanks John, that does help.

When you say that the ratio of Dionic 160 batteries on the F3 was approximately 2.5 to 1, do you mean that you used 2.5 Dionics on the Cinedeck for every 1 needed for the F3 (i.e., you used separate batteries for each)? If so, how much run time would you estimate you got from a single Dionic on the Cinedeck?

Thanks again.

Hi Steve

Yes, it was in fact 2.5 Dionic 160 batteries on the Cinedeck for every 1 on the F3. Run time was dependant on a few factors but the biggest was fan running time. The longer the fan ran, the shorter the battery life. We were able to get close to 4 hours at the beginning of the day, but as the unit got hotter and the daytime temperature did as well, the batteries were only good for 2.5 hours max. (fan ran continuous)

Compared to the Gemini 4:4:4 were we get 6 hours (up to 7 in some cases) with a single Dionic 160 for BOTH the F3 and the Gemini. Another concern we had with the Cinedeck was the Windows based OS and the lack of processor/bus interface/connectivity.

I understand Sony has addressed the later issue with their SS-R1 (also .DPX available), unfortunately significantly more expensive.

John Banovich, csc, BFM
Director/Field Producer/Cinematographer

Thanks John, again, for the very useful info.