See Canon USA Announces Cinema EOS C300 and EOS C300 PL Cameras at DVInfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/canon-eos/canon-usa-announces-cinema-eos-c300-and-eos-c300-pl-cameras.html)

Bit disappointed must admit. Oh well lets hope Red can save the day!

Thanks Chris! Enjoy LA. Looks like a great camera.

Pat

"The two years that were spent in research and development on this camera were lead by a member of Canon USA’s still photography EOS team."

Why?

It's a cinema camera.

Why has everyone gone mad and abandoned ergonomics? Yes you can stick stuff on it, or you can just design it properly in the first place. I've been waiting for a properly designed large sensor video camera but I guess the wait continues because the only real successful contender, the Alexa, is out of my price range.

Appreciate the info Chris! Now go and enjoy some Astro Burger :)

The Scarlet could be the more interesting camera in a number of respects, especially if you need to shoot slow motion.

I assume Canon have brought out a range of accessories for the camera, which does seem to be a modular design. I assume that these will produce an ergonomic design of some sort, although it does seem to be something that is getting lost a bit.

Thanks for the specs and write up Chris, have fun in LaLa land.

I don't have anything constructive to add,
but like to type when I'm sad.

Maybe the most interesting thing is the sensor. 4k, but read as 1080. The method seems exactly as was suggested to me, and I posted here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/new-canon-cinema-eos-c300-c300-pl-cameras/500720-something-new-canon-nov-3rd-28.html#post1693094

If you use a photosite count of 3840x2160 (effectively 16:9 4k) it becomes remarkably easy to do a simple (but effective) read to get 1080. You just have to think of it as a 1920x1080 matrix of blocks, each:

B G
G R

So read out directly (instead of deBayering) and you get R,G,B samples at 1920x1080 resolution - or true 4:4:4 1080.

The speculation in that post was that this is how a cheaper model would read it - but a more expensive model would do a true 4k deBayer. Which leads me to think we can expect a further (more sophisticated) model with true 4k. Otherwise there's little sense in using a 4k chip - better to use something like Sony do in the F3 if all you want is 1080.

I still don't understand how they omitted 1080 60p
No AE !!!!
No AF instead of having remote control AF of their lenses
Why 2 cameras instead of an EF with PL adaptor or vise versa?

I am disappointed.

I don't have anything constructive to add,
but like to type when I'm sad.

That lunch you owe me is going to taste AWESOME! It will help to dispel the taste of sadness...

SO close, yet so far away from what I and MY business need...

Shaun, try this for your shooting:
http://microsites.lomography.com/lomokino/

16K that a I didn't really have to spend is safe tonight. Well that is maybe until the Red unveil.....

very much let down, its an OK camera with decent specs with too many features omitted for most everyday camera work. Too much anticipation for an average overpriced camera in todays world, oh well at least the wait is over so I know it is not the choice for me. Are we not filmmakers who need film cameras not souped up photography cameras, I dunno maybe i'm old fashioned

The wedding and sports shooters can go home, their camera will be here next week.

Cheers.

Allan, what's coming next week?

I was optimistic until the price was mentioned. Not because I can only afford a cheaper camera, but because it's missing many important features that a camera in that price range should have. Still 2 hours for the Red announcement and I'm sure that I'm going to buy a Scarlet.

The wedding and sports shooters can go home, their camera will be here next week.

Cheers.

what camera would that be?

I was optimistic until the price was mentioned. Not because I can only afford a cheaper camera, but because it's missing many important features that a camera in that price range should have. Still 2 hours for the Red announcement and I'm sure that I'm going to buy a Scarlet.

It's looking that way for me too, if the scarlet can give me 120fps at 1080p and is under $10,000 im sold

Biggest disappointment for me is the price. I really was hoping for an upgrade from DSLRs. Im surprised they decided to miss this section out as I'd imagine far more 5D owners would likely upgrade to an FS100 priced Canon camcorder than a £10k+.

Oh well looks like I'm moving to Sony. Not a bad choice but could have been a bit better...

I still don't understand how they omitted 1080 60p
No AE !!!!
No AF instead of having remote control AF of their lenses
Why 2 cameras instead of an EF with PL adaptor or vise versa?

I am disappointed.

I had also hoped they would introduce a clever interface for EOS lenses allowing remote or on body control of iris and focus. Maybe it is still to come... otherwise I see no reason for making a dedicated EF model instead of using an adapter.

With the C300 at $16,000 I don't think many F3 owners will be regretting their purchase.

Canon could have really pulled out an ace here but I'd call this a 7 of Clubs.

Have to say the highlights look nice and to me it does seem to have the look of 16mm film but with a larger sensor and includes the grain.

Just a shame about that price.

I was optimistic until the price was mentioned. Not because I can only afford a cheaper camera, but because it's missing many important features that a camera in that price range should have. Still 2 hours for the Red announcement and I'm sure that I'm going to buy a Scarlet.

I've been saying that for 3 years, literaly. :)
I was hoping we'd get a Scarlet from Canon (even at $16,000), but whaddaya doo.

Is there really no on-board recording option that is more than 8-bit? If so, I would consider that a significant limitation for cinema/tv.

Thanks for the article, Chris. It was a very balanced report. Next I'd like to see some actual footage, although I guess we'll have to wait until January.

I'm a great believer in the benefits of oversampling and suspect that 4K oversampled into 1080p will look great.

What I'm wondering about:
a) How good are the read-reset times on the sensor (which, per my understanding, is a primary factor in determining skew)?
b) How good are the Canon gamma controls (LOG gamma, etc.) compared to Sony's?

So I guess we've got a couple more months of waiting (until some footage emerges).

And I definitely agree that the C300 would be very suitable for controlled corporate shooting. Oversampling from the 4K sensor should give a very high-end look!

As a Natural History/Underwater filmmaker who also has to shoot Corporate films to balance the books I'm certainly disappointed as there doesn't appear to be much more in the C300 that I can't already achieve with my 7D (yes I'm sure there actually is, but not enough for me to want this camera). Maybe RED will save the day, but I've been waiting so long now for Scarlet that I still don't believe it will happen tonight.....

"Most of that seems right - I'd be very surprised if it was a 2K or higher cam. Most people will be happy as clams with "true" 1080 resolution, 10 bit 4:2:2 color space, XLRs, a ND wheel, and a clean SDI/HDMI out.

If the price is $15K, I think Canon would be making a mistake - you want to sell glass? Make a cheaper camera then your competition. Either it's going to be priced more along the lines of an AF100, or more expensive then the F3 (a truly "pro" camera).

I suppose it could be both as has been rumored, but the $10-15 K pricing model seems a bit out of wack if true. Of course, that price is a lot more justifiable if the camera's 2K or higher resolution-wise... "

I wrote that in the 'something new from canon' almost 8 hours ago, and while I'm obviously not surprised at the specs (given the above prediction), I am shocked at the pricing. The same basic camera - plus included hard mounted 30.4 - 304mm lens - in the form of the Canon XF105 is $4,000. You can get "L" series glass in the form of the XF305 for $7,500.

Not sure why anyone already committed to Sony or RED would look twice at this camera given the pricing. More to the point, I'm not sure why Canon believes new buyers will flock to this camera in any substantial way.

Canon seems to have missed a very large opportunity to completely dominate the sub $10 K market, instead becoming a company that puts out a camera very similar to the Sony F3 (and presumably SCARLET as well) a year after the fact.

I had also hoped they would introduce a clever interface for EOS lenses allowing remote or on body control of iris.But there is, via Wi-Fi. See my article, linked in the first post.

Allan, what's coming next week?

Dylan, as this is aimed squarely at the Hollywood cinema crowd and TV studios .. with no auto features, I think it's the first of the special custom purpose cams.

There'll be one for the wedding guys, one for the doco group, one for TV news, one for TV sports and others for any other shooters you can think of, fishing, airplane, cars, boats.

They'll be the same cam we see at Paramount today with very very custom specs for each group, like a set of scales for the fishing folk.

Cheers.

Just not 'continuous' AF, right Chris?

-cp

Does anyone else find it absolutely hilarious that an expensive new Canon camera cannot autofocus with it's *own* lenses, yet one of it's competitors will?

Well, the new Canon doesn't change a single thing in the camera world. Not a tiny bit.

The C300 is apparently nothing more than an F3 competitor (or clone), with essentially the same feaures, even worse ergonomics, no 60p@1080, at exactly the same price as the Sony.

Only that the F3 sports 3D SDI uncompressed RGB 444 connectors, which the Canon lacks.

I don't see why anybody would get the Canon rather than the F3, honestly.

I guess this might be in Japanese's DNAs. Move very conservatively and don't embarrass or destroy your competitor's products.


After this I guess we can't expect much from the upcoming 5D3 either. Just an incremental improvement and that's it. Typical Canon.

Great article, thanks Chris.

I suppose we probably should have seen this coming really, an F3 competitor does make considerably more sense than an FS100/AF100 competitor if you're going after professional film/tv production.

Shame about the lack of 10-bit, but the XF codec is solid, trusted and widely accepted for broadcast, so that's okay.

I for one really like the sound of the sensor. The 4K downsampled to 1080p appears to be all about colour, added to the built-in LOG recording, I'm very keen to see how the C300 handles colour, tonality and highlights - all of which are FAR more important to me than outright resolution (as far as I'm concerned 1080p looks great projected on cinema screens).

I'll be very interested to see how it compares with the F3 price-wise down here in Australia, and whether the additional cost of SLOG for the F3 will make the Canon the more appealing option.

I can't afford either one anyway, so here's hoping Scarlet comes out at a more reachable pricepoint - or it's back to my original plan of getting an FS100, which I was just about to do before everyone went announcing their announcements.

Does anyone else find it absolutely hilarious that an expensive new Canon camera cannot autofocus with it's *own* lenses, yet one of it's competitors will?

What Canon competitor will autofocus with Canon lenses?

Anyone know if there's built-in ND filters? I can see an obvious place for them in the images of the camera?

Also, is the native codec 10-bit or 8-bit. I'm seeing conflicting reports.

What Canon competitor will autofocus with Canon lenses?

From Chris Hurd's article:


But anyone wanting to use autofocus on a Canon EF or EF-S lens — which is a primary feature of the EF line — will be better served by choosing a RED Digital Cinema DSMC camera equipped with RED’s own DSMC Titanium Canon EOS mount, which fully supports autofocus and other EF lens features.


So, RED.

Price is a bit disappointing. The AF100 & FS100 market remains unchanged it seems.

Looks like this and the F3 will be going head-to-head. From the specs it would appear that the F3 would remain the 'cinema' camera of choice, while the C300 would be the obvious choice for TV productions (with that broadcast standard codec ready to shoot out of the box).

My guess is while DSLR users are going to be disappointed, and Film Studios underwhelmed, this thing will sell by the bucketload for TV productions, documentaries, wildlife etc.

From Chris Hurd's article:



So, RED.

My bad, I didn't count Red amongst Canon's competitors, was thinking of the DSLR market. You make an excellent point.

It would perhaps be one of those other models to which Allan Black refers. It looks like an HDSLR form factor .... so the Cinema 5D perhaps

Maybe Canon will host yet *another* big event to unveil it, this time on December 3rd. ;)

I've seen a lot of newly announced equipment on these pages over the years, and the response is generally something like "May not be perfect, but can't wait to get my hands on one". This time it's
"What were they thinking? Where's the door?" In future, business schools will study Canon in the 2000s as model for how to lose loyal customers. And Simon, by the way, this one will definitely NOT be bought by wildlife people. With it's big chip, big price, and 50mbps, 422, already available by Nanoflash for $3000, it is totally unsuitable for living creatures.

The RED guys faces won't be red, we'll see now why JJ hopped on the Nov 3 bandwaggon.

Cheers.

this thing will sell by the bucketload for TV productions, documentaries, wildlife etc.
I'm not that sure. At the same price point as the F3, every independent Pro cameraman and TV network wil rather get the Sony instead, as it has better ergonomics, can use AF lenses for run and gun and with a cheap KiPro and S-log you get 14.5 stops (with the new firmware) for more cinematic projects.

Who's Canon targeting with this camera? I don't really get it.

The camera comes with a choice of lens mounts either EOS or PL, they could just have the two versions in that picture.

To have traction against the F3 in the market, the pictures will need to be really impressive

My bad, I didn't count Red amongst Canon's competitors,

Yeah, I didn't either, until today.

I'm not that sure. At the same price point as the F3, every independent Pro cameraman and TV network wil rather get the Sony instead, as it has better ergonomics, can use AF lenses for run and gun and with a cheap KiPro and S-log you get 14.5 stops (with the new firmware) for more cinematic projects.

Who's Canon targeting with this camera? I don't really get it.

Well, the XF300 was passed by the BBC and various other networks, mainly based on the quality of the codec (and the lens). I reckon TV studios would see this as a strong contender for dramas, documentaries and other productions. The ability to shoot it straight out of the box, without any external recorders would be seen as a real positive by many (something not possible with the F3).

Well, after reading the details about the C300 I don't regret buying a F3 at all.

But there is, via Wi-Fi. See my article, linked in the first post.

Chris, I meant something more along the lines of a follow focus wheel that could be attached to the camera and used by an operator or AC or detached for remote operation.

Have they provided a way for the operator to control iris on EOS lenses? (Obviously a phone/tablet via wifi is not suitable for this).

Well, the XF300 was passed by the BBC and various other networks, mainly based on the quality of the codec (and the lens). I reckon TV studios would see this as a strong contender for dramas, documentaries and other productions. The ability to shoot it straight out of the box, without any external recorders would be seen as a real positive by many (something not possible with the F3).
Ok, so we have:

-Canon C300 at $16k. Can shoot 50Mbps but only film-style. SDI out won't get you 444 or more stops.

-Sony F3 at $16k, 35Mbps. Add $2k for a KiPro are you're BBC ready and beyond. You CAN shoot Run and Gun. NDs included. Add S-Log and you get the closest there is to an ALEXA.


No camera is an island but a system. Given than you need plenty of stuff besides the camera body (DSLR/PL lenses, Sachtler, Mattebox+NDs, mics+transmitters...etc), the additional $2K for the KiPro or Pix240 hardly make any difference in the overall amount.

With the C300 you're painted into a corner. The F3 is on the other hand 3 cameras in one. I still don't get it.

Well, the XF300 was passed by the BBC and various other networks, mainly based on the quality of the codec (and the lens). I reckon TV studios would see this as a strong contender for dramas, documentaries and other productions. The ability to shoot it straight out of the box, without any external recorders would be seen as a real positive by many (something not possible with the F3).

This is my thinking exactly, no one else is doing on-board S35mm recording to a broadcast approved codec anywhere near this pricepoint.

If DR, colour, tonality and highlight handling are on par with an SLOGged F3, then this it will become even more appealing (for the fact that it'll cost a couple of grand less).



With the C300 you're painted into a corner. The F3 is on the other hand 3 cameras in one. I still don't get it.

But the Canon has LOG recording built in - so we might see 'Alexa-ish' images from it anyway. It's just not a run & gun machine.

I think the telling point is that it is labeled as EOS & designed by EOS employees. There are a lot of good things with this, but I see a lot of other people disappointed like myself.

I kinda feel that the video guys at Canon know video better than the still guys. The fact that there was a XH-G1 / XH-A1; XF 300 / 305 proves that there are some people in Canon that understand the varied needs of video. If you take the best of the EOS cameras & put it in a video camera, I'll be excited. Another video camera in a EOS camera & I'm now just counting down the seconds until Red disappoints me too.

but the Canon has LOG recording built in - so we might see 'Alexa-ish' images from it anyway. It's just not a run & gun machine.

Log over 8 bits? Meh...