Hello, first time poster and new to videography.

I got a Canon XA10 a couple weeks ago and am experience a creaky case. The right side when I press on it with a very light force (either with my hand in the wrist strap or just pushing it with my fingers) it makes a creak sound that easily makes it to both microphones. Similarly, when I have it mounted on any kind of rig and moving or tilting the camera in any direction (presumably stressing the case) or putting a single handle in the tripod mount and moving it in any direction, it makes the same creak.

Second, when I move it quickly side to side I hear something moving inside the housing (I taped the XLR latches just in case) that sounds like a wire.

I contacted Canon who said to send it to a service center and Amazon who told me not to do that and instead get a replacement through them which I'm going to do.

I just wanted to get your feedback on if this is common and is my replacement just going to make the same noise?

I made a short video of the noise that I can post to youtube if it will help understand what I'm describing.

Thanks and have a nice day.
-- Kawika

Hi, not a problem on my XA10, so I can't tell help, sorry. I haven't read of this issue yet.

Did you buy through Amazon? I thought you'd have to contact your seller.

Also in case you need some more answers for them, before you send it in, take it to a Canon shop in SD, get their opinion on what happened.
Hope this helps.

Cheers.

First when moving side to side you might be hearing the infamous rattling sound. That is a known issue. Some people bug out over it, others don't seem to think it's a big deal. I'm one that thinks it is not a big deal.

I have bought and returned for a full refund a 30" Dell monitor from an Amazon buyer, have had nothing but good to say. Also, I think if you buy through Amazon directly (Amazon Fullfillment) you might be able to do exchange or refund pretty easily.

Here's a video I posted on youtube. It's unlisted so you have to use the link. I'm going to leave it up for a few days in case the Canon techs want to see it.

EDIT: Removed video link as Amazon is sending a replacement.

I think some of the noise is just regular camera noise like the shake which could be the battery since it shifts a little. The rest I don't know. I'm hoping they're issues I can work through in normal use.

Not sure I mentioned but this all started when I put the camera on a shoulder rig and leaned to one side and heard a clunk sound.

I did buy it from Amazon and they've offered to overnight an advance replacement. They are an amazing company. They've done this a couple times for me over the years. I was kind of hoping it was an issue I could work through and not bother them but it doesn't seem to be playing out that way.

Thanks for the tips and advice.

Cheers

Well, there's one camera that has been permanently removed from my "must buy list", geez, what a load of absolute boll*&ks.

Makes more noise than my Zimmer frame - and that's saying something!


CS

Mine doesn't make those noises. Send it back!

Thanks for all the info. Amazon is overnighting another camera so I pulled the video and I'll see how it goes tomorrow. Cheers

It's an amazing camera for the price, I'm thinking of getting a second one. Image quality is absolutely beautiful. The audio quality is of the highest quality, excellent circuitry. At it's price point there is no competition, yet. That will change, of course, but for now, purely based on IQ vs $$$, this is the camera.

Update on this issue is the 2nd camera makes the same noise. It seems worse with a tripod plate attached, I'm guessing it's compressing the plastic pieces together so any movement is magnified. Since I seem to be the only one with this issue, I'm hoping it's something like they changed their manufacturing process recently and aren't aware of this problem.

I've asked Canon for a solution and I'm hoping to hear from them on Monday. Sending it to them may be their only suggestion but I'd like to hear them aware of a problem (via the video which I've reopened) and know of a fix before I part with it for 2 weeks. Otherwise I may be looking for another camera. Cheers.

I'd sure like to see the video. My cam is fine, but then the rattle that people make such a fuss about doesn't bother me either.

It's at XA10 noisy case. Any solutions? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHwoYPl5jrQ). I made it public to see if someone had a solution.

I received a response from Canon and they still want me to send it in so maybe they don't know about it. I'll have to clear that through Amazon first but that may be what I do.

I love the cameras features and form factor so I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get this fixed. I'd even consider keeping it if they super-glued the case and wrapped it in bubble wrap but the way it is now it is just too much for my retentiveness to handle.

Cheers

Reminds me of the HV-20 I bought when the were all the rage... casing noises galore, sort of negated any image quality for me. Stuck with Sonys because of it, I'm willing to accept SOME "handling" related noises, but creaking of plastic components that aren't sufficiently rigid or properly mated aren't on the acceptable list. Your short video brought back memories...

That creaking noise is monstrous. I don't really know what to do about that. The rattling noise may go away when you turn on image stabilization.

Go shoot video and stop squeezing your camera, that is my suggestion.

You've got to forgive me, but I don't get it at all. I watched your video, why in the world would you squeeze the case? I can not imagine any scenario where I need to squeeze my camera? What am I missing here?

And moving side to side at such a high speed? You are practically shaking the camera, at least that is how it appears. Who would ever move that fast? Moving that quickly from side to side the video footage would unusable anyway. In any normal environment (you are in a completely silent room) the noise would easily not be heard.

And the flexing of the handle while it is OFF the camera? That makes no sense at all. When the handle is on the camera it will not flex. So how is that relevant? Flex it hard enough it will break. It is plastic.

The strangest thing I have ever seen done to a camera is the pushing on the side of the case with pointed fingers. Why do you do that? When I shoot I hold my camera like a delicate instrument, at all times.

Am I the only one who sees this? I got curious and went to my camera, and I refuse to push or squeeze it as hard as you do, I don't want to damage it. I pushed it gently, no problem, it's very stiff.

Sounds like audio AGC is turned on on in a quiet room. That will ensure any handling, case noise, or noise coupled to the case from the support (e.g., monopod or tripod) noise is maxed out in the recorded video.

In any case anyone using a built-in mic (especially on a handicam form factor camcorder) is not is probably not too worried about sound quality.

FYIW: I can hear similar physical noises pressing on the tape loading doors of tape-based camcorders.

Solution - assuming it is not something loose in the camcorder (relates to the Canon suggestion) - handle the camcorder with a reasonable degree of care, skip on auto audio AGC, and use a decent external microphone.

Don, you worded your suggestions much nicer than I did, but you were right on the money. I bought the XA10 because it has XLRs and a shotgun mount and the sounds would never show up using an external mic. But even with the internal mic, handling the camera with proper, normal, care the sounds would not occur either. Any professional, in my mind would not find these issues, because their shooting techniques are such they would never occur.

This reminds me of the rattling issue I've heard so much about. In the two videos demonstrating the issue that I've seen, the shooters are walking heavily, practically stomping through their houses while videotaping almost begging for noise. It would be funny if it weren't so weird.

To anyone who does suffer from a truly bad noise, maybe the phenomenon is real, I don't know.

Kawika, it is important you leave up your video, so that people can see exactly what is being talked about here. This will scare people away from a fine camera, but hopefully if they see your video they can understand how not to cause the problem.

EDIT: I want to point out that I in no way want to discourage people from checking out this camera. I'm not an activist. I'm a user looking for a solution.

Go shoot video and stop squeezing your camera, that is my suggestion.
Hey Jeff,

I understand your confusion. I have two XA10s sitting next to me and I'm confused. I'm open to the possibility I did the 6 things I'm not supposed to do with a camcorder and I've tried your suggestion (long before I came here). Along with that comes my responsibility to operate in a way that gives me the best product I can create. To date, I haven't had much success. To answer your questions.

1. Squeezing. I'm really not squeezing that hard and maybe I've got fat hands or something but when I'm in the grip belt loosely, if I move my hand or flex it in any way (e.g. moving the zoom control on top of the camera) I get the creak. I guess if I never moved the muscles in my hand and didn't want to zoom this would be okay but I kinda need to do that. I know there's noise if I slide my hand across something like the body or belt but that's a completely different noise.

2. The shaking sound in the video I posted isn't a real issue, as I commented in the video, that noise is probably the BP-827 battery which has some play in it. But even with the battery removed and my fingers over the XLR locks there's two distinct noises inside the camera and handle. I can accept that as it may be something floating or a wire or something. But it's there and I was just demonstrating it.

3. Flexing the handle I agree isn't much of an issue when its off the camera but it does show that it's not solid. Maybe it will never come up in a video and that would be great. My experience with plastic however is that any creaks resulting from loose fittings only get worse over time, not better. It's really the case creaking in every mounting situation I've tried that's my main concern.

4. Pushing the side of the case. I was just demonstrating the right side has nothing behind it and to show what's happening when I touch the camera side. I do this when I'm in the grip or if I'm holding the camera from underneath with my hand and my fingers wrap around the body. It seems related to #1 best I can tell. The issue seems to be that the right side is not tightly mated to the rest of the camera and the smallest pressure on the right side or any flexing made to the body will cause the creak. At least in the two I have.

Am I the only one who sees this? I got curious and went to my camera, and I refuse to push or squeeze it as hard as you do, I don't want to damage it. I pushed it gently, no problem, it's very stiff.

And that's why I'm here and I appreciate you trying that. I'm really not pushing that hard at all. Since yours doesn't do what mine does my thought is the manufacturing process has changed. Maybe Canon will find there is an issue and they come up with a retrofit or maybe they'll check their supplier QA process. I don't know but accepting the noise is tough for someone like me.

Sounds like audio AGC is turned on on in a quiet room. That will ensure any handling, case noise, or noise coupled to the case from the support (e.g., monopod or tripod) noise is maxed out in the recorded video.

In any case anyone using a built-in mic (especially on a handicam form factor camcorder) is not is probably not too worried about sound quality.

FYIW: I can hear similar physical noises pressing on the tape loading doors of tape-based camcorders.

Solution - assuming it is not something loose in the camcorder (relates to the Canon suggestion) - handle the camcorder with a reasonable degree of care, skip on auto audio AGC, and use a decent external microphone.

Don,

I don't see AGC for audio but I do see the attenuator. Where do I set the audio AGC? What I tried was turned the attenuator on and set the manual volume to 75 so that Metallica playing Master of Puppets playing from a speaker 2' away was -10db on the audio indicator. The creak spikes to 0db which is full scale.


I tried my shotgun mic, same location, set the volume so the indicator showed -10db. The creak was down around -20db but still audible. That's better and can probably be handled in post. I'm not a fan of extra steps but I'd consider it to keep the camera.

Don, you worded your suggestions much nicer than I did, but you were right on the money. I bought the XA10 because it has XLRs and a shotgun mount and the sounds would never show up using an external mic. But even with the internal mic, handling the camera with proper, normal, care the sounds would not occur either. Any professional, in my mind would not find these issues, because their shooting techniques are such they would never occur.

This reminds me of the rattling issue I've heard so much about. In the two videos demonstrating the issue that I've seen, the shooters are walking heavily, practically stomping through their houses while videotaping almost begging for noise. It would be funny if it weren't so weird.

To anyone who does suffer from a truly bad noise, maybe the phenomenon is real, I don't know.

Kawika, it is important you leave up your video, so that people can see exactly what is being talked about here. This will scare people away from a fine camera, but hopefully if they see your video they can understand how not to cause the problem.

Jeff,

I agree except for two things in my case; this is not a professional camera (I'd rate it more prosumer) and I'm not a professional. I know I have a lot to learn in all areas of production but if my first steps involve having to gingerly handle this particular camera and do a bunch of post when I'd rather be out playing then that makes me pause and either fix a problem, real or imagined, or look for a camera that's more of a match for me at this point in my development.

I really appreciate all the ideas and suggestions and I am trying very hard to get to a place where this camera works as I will likely be buying another one. Maybe I had too much experience with my wifes Nikon D7000 that costs $500 less and wouldn't make a noise if you threw it across the room (slight exaggeration but its body is dead silent, even the doors) but I'd like to think that whatever I go with will grow with me and not be a nag. Hopefully cautious.

Cheers

When I use the camera handheld, I use the handle, that's kind of what the handle is for.

If I held your camera in the palm of my hand I really doubt there would be any noise when I shot with it. You squeeze the camera, and it's visible and we can see your hand squeezing. I personally would never hold onto a camera so tight, so this is why I don't understand. The tighter you hold onto the body the more vibration you will pick up as well when you are handheld.

You should hold the camera loosely. It weighs almost nothing, you don't have to "grip" it, it should just rest in your hand. Cup your hands, don't hold so tight. I hold a camera in my hand and I treat it like I'm holding an egg almost, or I grip firmly to the tripod plate on the bottom for something to hold onto.

I let the camera rest in my hand and I guide it with the other hand. Easy does it, gentle, gentle.

If you can't work around the issue you will have to get another brand, of course. Good luck with it and hope you find a solution.

When I use the camera handheld, I use the handle, that's kind of what the handle is for.

If I held your camera in the palm of my hand I really doubt there would be any noise when I shot with it. You squeeze the camera, and it's visible and we can see your hand squeezing. I personally would never hold onto a camera so tight, so this is why I don't understand. The tighter you hold onto the body the more vibration you will pick up as well when you are handheld.

You should hold the camera loosely. It weighs almost nothing, you don't have to "grip" it, it should just rest in your hand. Cup your hands, don't hold so tight. I hold a camera in my hand and I treat it like I'm holding an egg almost, or I grip firmly to the tripod plate on the bottom for something to hold onto.

I let the camera rest in my hand and I guide it with the other hand. Easy does it, gentle, gentle.

If you can't work around the issue you will have to get another brand, of course. Good luck with it and hope you find a solution.

Thank you for the tips. I think I can do that in most cases and I'll have to figure something out in the situations where I may touch the camera or move it. It still leaves me with thinking I have the only two XA10 cameras that make a creaking noise.

Amazon kinda forced my hand as they scheduled pickup of both cameras back and won't confirm they do not want me to send it to Canon (likely a comm error). I'll either have to go against their instructions to get Canons official word on it or suck it up and get to recording as-is. Tough decision.

Thanks again!

Good luck, it is not fun to be unhappy with an expensive purchase. You are showing Amazon to be a great vendor. I like them very much also.

Thanks again. Official word from Amazon is they do not want me to send the camera(s) to Canon under any circumstances. I'm guessing Amazon wants to hear directly from Canon why two cameras were returned.

XA-10 = Amazing IQ, c**p build quality. The image from XA-10/G10 far outweigh the problems of poor build quality. But it could, and should be much better.

I don't see AGC for audio but I do see the attenuator. Where do I set the audio AGC?
Page 76 of the manual. Mic Level is either Automatic (aka: audio AGC or ALC) or Manual.

XA-10 = Amazing IQ, c**p build quality. The image from XA-10/G10 far outweigh the problems of poor build quality. But it could, and should be much better.

I am leaning that way. I'm making some progress at getting better holding the camera per the recommendations here. The video and audio quality is amazing. I let Amazon know I want more time with the 2nd camera.

Page 76 of the manual. Mic Level is either Automatic (aka: audio AGC or ALC) or Manual.

Thanks. I did that and it is quieter. The shotgun mic is quieter as well. Thanks.

You are on the right track, and are to be commended for accepting advice. Well done.

When you are shooting normally, an event, or whatever, this noise issue will not exist. As you get out and start using the camera in a normal way, you will find this to be true..

When you focus on the noise, and do things to make the noise, then all you can think about is the noise, that is normal. Get out and go shoot some real footage, enjoy your camera!

Just a quick review on audio automatic level control (ALC).

It is intended for point and shoot or run-and-gun type use where the shooter does not have the time, skill, or inclination to manage audio levels and where audio levels are totally unpredicatable. The camera attempts to make all sound average out to be equally loud, the whisper, the shout, the a/c running in the back ground, the camera operators heavy breathing, the hand shifting in the grip, etc. and so on.

As the ambient sound level changes the audio gain will gradually increase or more quickly decrease to maintain the average sound level, up to the gain limits of the camcorder. The net result is that during period of relative quiet in the progam material you can hear the background noise level increase as the gain increases. A sharp noise like a single clap will be very loud because it is over before the ALC can react to it.

For reasonably predictable audio environments one is generally better off using manual audio level, setting the record level so that audio peaks just miss hitting maximum digital record level. This preserves the dynamic range of the audio, and avoids the pumping of background noises. However, there are instances where using ALC is an approriate approach. The trick is in recognizing what is most appropriate for the current shoot circumstances.

You are on the right track, and are to be commended for accepting advice. Well done.

When you are shooting normally, an event, or whatever, this noise issue will not exist. As you get out and start using the camera in a normal way, you will find this to be true..

When you focus on the noise, and do things to make the noise, then all you can think about is the noise, that is normal. Get out and go shoot some real footage, enjoy your camera!

Thank you for the kind words, assistance and putting up with my questions. I agree, when you focus on something you'll find it. I gave the camera to my wife and of course, no noise. For a second I thought, you're not holding it right. Then I caught myself and realized it's probably me. :) Thanks again.

Just a quick review on audio automatic level control (ALC).

It is intended for point and shoot or run-and-gun type use where the shooter does not have the time, skill, or inclination to manage audio levels and where audio levels are totally unpredicatable. The camera attempts to make all sound average out to be equally loud, the whisper, the shout, the a/c running in the back ground, the camera operators heavy breathing, the hand shifting in the grip, etc. and so on.

As the ambient sound level changes the audio gain will gradually increase or more quickly decrease to maintain the average sound level, up to the gain limits of the camcorder. The net result is that during period of relative quiet in the progam material you can hear the background noise level increase as the gain increases. A sharp noise like a single clap will be very loud because it is over before the ALC can react to it.

For reasonably predictable audio environments one is generally better off using manual audio level, setting the record level so that audio peaks just miss hitting maximum digital record level. This preserves the dynamic range of the audio, and avoids the pumping of background noises. However, there are instances where using ALC is an approriate approach. The trick is in recognizing what is most appropriate for the current shoot circumstances.

Thank you for the tips. I understand audio pretty good and hadn't reached the point where I was playing with the manual gain (ALC) but I understand it's use now along with the manual controls for the external mic. Great features. The mics are extremely sensitive. I heard my foot rubbing on the floor from 10 feet away. No more shuffling for me. More lessons learned. Cheers

I agree and find the onboard mic quite good, thought I've only used it once. I dismantled a Rode Videomic, removed the support system and it fits in the shotgun mic holder perfectly. I love my setup, great audio.

This is my solution to the problem.

The plastic switches on the handle makes a noise, also the base plate has a small piece of plastic that also rattles.

The DIY shock-mount is so that you don't hear the camera zoom.

Rainer, the problem is not shotgun mic noise, you didn't read the thread all the way. Go back further. The problem was a complaint that the camera was noisy when it was squeezed. The solution was to stop squeezing it.

The Rode mic thing was an aside, not related to the original issue.

An interesting DIY solution to reduce coupling of handling noise to an attached mic. Maybe add a bit of black magic marker to make the rubber bands less obvious to others if used in a professional/paid environment where looks count. (Or maybe other can't see them when in the wild.)

One lesson learned in the early days of the XL1 series was to be sure to NOT over-tighten the mic clamp screw. If the rubber in the mount is compressed too much it will increase mechanical coupling of handling noises to the mic body.

Don, should we (I) loosen the mic holder screw between shoots, I wonder? Hmmm, I'm going to go loosen mine now just to be safe.

Ok, i did not read through everything. I know that the loose mic switches on the xa10 is a big problem, that is why I posted.
it is possible to confuse the loose audio switches with case noises.

His video showed him squeezing the camera, and pushing in on the sides of it, it was pretty clear it was not the rattling, but hey, you tried to help!

Don, should we (I) loosen the mic holder screw between shoots,

The issue is that the mic clamp screw should be just tight enough to hold the mic so it doesn't flop or slide out. If you tighten it too much the rubber becomes compressed and no longer provides the damping/isolation. Some people would tighten it as if it was a lug nut, and with a full size mic barrel it would compress the damping material to the point of coupling body noises to the mic.

I remove the mic when I pack the camcorder at the end of a shoot.

His video showed him squeezing the camera, and pushing in on the sides of it, it was pretty clear it was not the rattling...

It definitely rattles. The handle makes two distinct rattle noises when I shake it in a weird way and I already knew about that when I bought it and can live with it. Someday when the warranty expires I'll probably crack it open and put some tape on whatever is rattling.

...but hey, you tried to help!

Always appreciated. Cheers

Yes the camera rattles if you shake it but that is not what you were complaining about originally, is the point, unless I missed something.

You are correct.

As you say, It does rattle, but only if you shake it. I remember when I got the camera, I couldn't make the noise without shaking the sh_t out of it. It made me wonder, what in the heck do people plan to do with the camera when they are shooting, shake it?

If I'm shooting something where I'm moving that much, the footage would be not be any good anyway.

This is just a guess. The early videos I saw of this camera in action were people riding skateboards. Seems in that situation the wheels rolling are going to cause a lot more noise than a rattle so it wouldn't matter much. And as you pointed out, when you know about something you'll tend to focus on it and that would seem to be the case. I agree that it takes some doing (mishandling?) to make it rattle. If I'm really moving about I'm probably making more noise than the camera would. In situations where it could rattle then I'll likely have off-camera audio or music or something.

I agree with you.