View Full Version : Output levels of Sennheiser G3 receiver
Zoran Vincic May 6th, 2012, 06:19 PM Reading my previous post I see that I made an error, I should have emphasized the word "properly".
I'm no Eric Cartmann but everytime a G2/G3 receiver I worked with was fed with phantom power, nothing happened. I know that it would be more exciting if I said turned the pp on and then bam, fire, smoke everywhere, run for your lives...
But it was more like oh, left the PP on again...oh well, let me turn it off and continue to work as if nothing happened...dull, isn't it?
If you wan't to be on a safe side, just read the manual first. One would think that if a device could/would be damaged by PP there would be a warning in the manual. In nice, big, bold letters with plenty of exclamation marks.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that the G3 portable receiver's manual doesn't even mention phantom power at all...
Jase Tanner May 6th, 2012, 07:55 PM I frequently run my G3 and an NTG-3 through a Sound Devices Mixpre. The phantom power on the mixpre is either on or off for both channels. G3 is still alive and well.
Rob Lombardi May 6th, 2012, 09:29 PM But it was more like oh, left the PP on again...oh well, let me turn it off and continue to work as if nothing happened...dull, isn't it?
That's great that is doesn't explode into a million bits, but the situation I'm dealing with is that I want to use it while phantom power is on. It seems there isn't a quick "Hey, just buy this cable" kind of solution.
Zoran Vincic May 7th, 2012, 05:25 AM As I said earlier, you're free to use it with PP engaged and without a special cable of any kind.
Rob Lombardi May 7th, 2012, 09:39 AM Fair enough. But won't it introduce a bunch of "hum" and battery drain?
Paul R Johnson May 7th, 2012, 12:14 PM You might get the odd crack when you stick the plug in, but I've never had hum. Phantom power is current limited, so extra battery drain isn't really a problem. Some weird things can happen - some Soundcraft mixers, that maybe are providing your camera an audio feed, react oddly if phantom is present - the LEDs suddenly going up to full - but no impact on the sound.
John Willett May 8th, 2012, 08:34 AM NO! ... The G2/3 has an unbalanced configuration and has been known to cause excessive noise and drain the recorder's batteries faster than you can say "how come my new batteries are dead already".
Only the 100 series pocket receivers are unbalanced - the mains receivers and G1/G2 500 series and 2000 series pocket receivers are all balanced.
You can put a DC-blocking capacitor in the XLR connector to keep the P48 from back-feeding into the receiver output circuit. I would recommend also putting a clamp diode to prevent the turn-on/charging impulse current from getting through to the receiver output circuitry. I can draw you a diagram if you think that is what you want to do. It should not be too difficult to solder these components inside the XLR connector shell.
This is the best option.
John Willett May 8th, 2012, 08:38 AM There's no need for a special DC blocking cable.
The Sennheiser receivers, together with all modern audio devices properly DESIGNED to connect to microphone XLR inputs won't be damaged nor affected by phantom power.
However it may be damaged if it's connected to the XLR input while the phantom power is turned on. The same warning goes for the condenser mics too.
Yes - the evolution receivers are protected against phantom power, except the first batch of G2 receivers.
But - I would not like to unbalance phantom power when you also want to use the phantom for another mic.
But - why don't you plug the receiver into a line input rather than a mic.input? It's the better option, anyway.
Zoran Vincic May 8th, 2012, 08:59 AM It's actually better to connect it to a mic input as the receiver doesn't really output a line level signal even when the output is boosted to + 12dB.
Steve House May 8th, 2012, 10:11 AM If it's not outputting a high enough signal to drive a line-level input properly when the output adjustment is on one of the top settings, you're probably under-modulating at the transmitter. Set the transmitter's audio input sensitivity higher.
Rick Reineke May 8th, 2012, 10:24 AM It's actually better to connect it to a mic input as the receiver doesn't really output a line level signal even when the output is boosted to + 12dB.Re: Output levels of Sennheiser G3 receiver
>> If the system is gain staged properly, a +4dB (ref level) line level signal can be achieved.
That said, some devices (like Canon XL and HD cams ) have inherently lower than 'normal' input gain available, and 'line level' is probably just padded down to the mic pre anyway, so running mic level is not a huge issue in that scenario.
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Thanks John, I should have specified the G2/3 100 series portable receiver.
John Willett May 9th, 2012, 03:06 AM Thanks John, I should have specified the G2/3 100 series portable receiver.
NB: The G3 portable receiver is diversity - the G2 is not.
The 100 series is unbalanced output - the 500/2000 series has a balanced output.
Tom Morrow May 9th, 2012, 11:41 PM I still maintain that the g3 does not put out a pro line level signal. Yes it will produce a maximum signal level of about +4dBu. But true line level has nominal level of +4dBu, and a maximum level of about +20dBu. It's about 16dB short.
Yesterday I was running a g3 into a Sony ex-1r line input, and the signal never got past about a third to half the meter range on the camera. The transmitter was being fed from a Mixpre and properly adjusted so the transmitter peaked when the Mixpre peaked.
As far as phantom power, I have "accidentally" applied phantom to my g3 for long periods of time, and didn't notice any problems at all.
My understanding is that decades ago, most preamp designs were hand designed one off things that may not have been designed to survive adverse conditions (e.g. unexpected phantom). So worrying about phantom damage made more sense in the past. But preamp design has evolved, engineers have gotten more specialized, and generally tolerance for failure has gone way down. Everything is designed to minimize warranty claims, which are now a huge part of the manufacturer cost as integrated designs have decreased the actual product cost.
And the process of building everything overseas now means there's much more pressure on manufacturers to get their designs reliable the first time, whereas in the past they could tweak designs more iteratively. Audio equipment has only been generally available to ordinary people in our lifetimes and there has been quite a bit of evolution in designs over its short history on this planet. In short, it's best to avoid unnecessary phantom power, but if your time is worth anything you'd probably spend more chasing DC blocking cables than a repair would cost if you did actually damage something.
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