Well, I'm told my Atomos Samurai will 'ship' NLT 11/29/11. 'I'm elated!'
J.

Make sure you flash the unit to V2.52.

Thanks Peter! Let's keep the Atomos 'Sub-Forum' active, so that it's a resource for 'Best Practices' that 'newbies', like myself can benefit from. I'll try to contribute what I discover during my journey with my 'Samurai'.

J.

No worries. Link to new firmware here: The Samurai - Firmware (http://www.atomos.com/samurai/firmware/)

Those who are awaiting delivery of their 'Samurai', just in-case you haven't already thought of it, you need a BNC to BNC (SDI) cable to attach to the camera's SDI connector and the 'Atomos supplied' mini BNC to 1/4" BNC. They're fairly cheap. If you have a 'Tweakie' friend like I do, you can get them to make you one. Just say'n.

J.

The photos seem to show a regular sized BNC on the unit. Is that correct?

No it's a mini-BNC connector

And when you say Atomos supplied mini-BNC to 1/4" BNC connector, the 1/4" BNC is what we would think of as a traditional BNC, yes?

Yep, standard BNC. But the full size BNC end on the Atomos cable is a female (I think). It plugs into a standard BNC cable.

Is mini-BNC the thing that connects to the Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle?

Incidentally, if the Atomos works out okay... I'll have one BM HyperDeck Shuttle for sale. What a POS.

i'm interested in the shuttle.
Specially that i think it will get a firmware update soon with DnxHD like it's bigger brother.

Well, I am certainly excited to hear that it is getting out there....but since I am using an XLh1, I am concerned about the analog audio recording issues mentioned earlier. That is critical to my workflow. Now I am getting worried. :(

i'm interested in the shuttle.
Specially that i think it will get a firmware update soon with DnxHD like it's bigger brother.

I didn't think this unit (the shuttle he is referring to) was capable of converting video to any other format. I thought it just wrote the data to disk, exactly how it comes out of the SDI Spigot. Is it even possible that it could do this with a firmware update?

The new V2.6 firmware for the samurai is available here;
The Samurai - Firmware (http://www.atomos.com/samurai/firmware/)

Issues Addressed in this firmware update:

Added red letter box border in the monitor when recording (black when not).
Fixed 'stale' video in the black letter box border in the monitor when switching video modes.
Audio fix: certain cameras could detect the wrong number of channels of audio present.


I really think we need an Atomos forum in the Tapeless section now.

Is mini-BNC the thing that connects to the Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle?

Incidentally, if the Atomos works out okay... I'll have one BM HyperDeck Shuttle for sale. What a POS.

Why do you say that Mark?

The 'Samurai' User Manual V. 1.0 is available on the website (see below).

Atomos (http://atomos.com/)

OK...so I'm about to push the button on the Samurai...especially with 100.00 off offer before Dec. 7th

3 big questions I can't get answer to....and their website is HORRIBLE ! (am I the only one thinking that ?)

1. Does the separate audio input work ? I'm coming from a first-gen XLH1 and have to use RCA outputs to (mini connector on the Samurai) to get audio in. My audio doesn't stream down the HDSDI.

2. You have to pay for the Avid DNxHD upgrade? An how does that work....and what resolutions of DNxHD does it record ? DNxHD 220 ?

3. Lastly..I thought I read this....it can record 23.976 fps from the Canon...but then do a reverse telecine and add the junk frames for my transfer into the Avid ? Which means I could shoot 23.976, and then import the footage into avid as a 60i DnxHD 220 clip ?

Thanks...if anyone has these answers. I know this product is new....and it certainly looked great at NAB.

Kevin...you're right about the website, it sucks. To partially answer your question about "You have to pay for the Avid DNxHD upgrade?", the answer is yes. The website says, "Avid DNxHD® codec will be available late 2011, priced at €99, 89GBP or $149 USD for any Samurai user.". I also 'read' somewhere on the website (of course can't find it now) that the 'Avid DNxHD' will be available after January 1, 2012. Given Atomos' track record, I would bet that the release will be later, rather then sooner.

JMHO, YMMV.

J.

Got mine here. Initially was having some issues. The Samurai was just going all "garbly" when I turned the SDI out of my camera on.Whe I toggle it off, the Samura kicked back to the main touch screen. I was stressing big time at that point. Eventually, after flashing the firmware and still not working, I dug through my bag of stuff and found a different BNC cable and I paired it with the 2nd mini-sdi adapter from Atomos and it worked! I have toyed with it for about an hour. I will post more tomorrow as I get some results and maybe I will test the other cable again to confirm that was the issue...either my BNC or the mini-BNC atomos shipped.

I can tell you this..

Canon XL-h1 (original) HD-SDI out
Control-L out to Samurai
Audio Line out to Samurai input

All is working without a hitch...which is a relief at this point.

I shot about 5-6 minutes in my basement with well below average lighting. I was at 6db. The resulting footage, while not being compressed, looking very grainy. I was a bit shocked as it seems more prominent than the HDV footage I am used to. I reshot thie footage at -3db abd while it is dark, it is much less noisy.

Still, there is a quality to these initial videos that concerns me a bit. I am hoping that in my haste I missed the focus a little or something because edges just dont look as sharp as I was expecting. And this is with the awesome 6x wide angle lens that has broadcast optics. I need to test more before I comment additionaly, but I am concerned a little that the image wasn't nearly as pristine as I was expecting. I hope it was focusing error on my part at the end of a long day.

THanks,
Marty

Marty...I haven't done any recording with mine, yet. I did mount it on my HXR-NX5U and discovered I made an error in my choice of tripods, it's a great tripod, it just doesn't have enough capacity. My purchase was based on published manufacturer specs, but after getting everything configured, camera, batteries, Samurai, ball head, and cables it tips the scales at 8 lb 3oz. However, the 'issue' isn't the 'weight' per se, it's the C of G, which is three times the 55mm 'baseline' manufacturer's spec, placing it at the ragged edge of the max capacity. Oops!

I used the Samurai as a monitor only and was pleased with the quality of the image. So far, no issues. The updated firmware v.2.6, loaded with no hitches. I'm using a Western Digital 360GB 'Scorpio Black' 7200RPM HDD, P/N WDGWD3200BEKT. This is not so much a criticism as it is an observation. When formatting the HDD the 'Samurai' doesn't give you any feedback that you have 'formatted' the HDD correctly. I just assumed I was successful, and proceeded with the 'firmware' download. So far, so good. I'm also using a Manfrotto 492LCD Micro Ball Head w/ hot/cold shoe mount. It's pricey, but very sturdy. BTW, I've left the plastic protective cover on the touch screen, and have found the touch screen still very sensitive. I know it won't last for long, but every day the plastic stays on, is one more day the actual touch screen will last. I hope anyway.

I know this information is very 'mundane', but maybe someone will find it useful.

Regards,

J.

I thing I discovered today on a shoot (luckily not too critical a shoot). If you are recording ANY format other than 1080, you must connect the Samurai to the F3's standard SDI MON out, and not the dual link HD-SDI A output. I was recording 720 50P on the F3 but the Samurai was recording 1080 50i.

An interesting titbit is that you can simultaneously record 720 internally on SxS and 1080 externally. It is probably of dubious value because of the external default to 50i. So for general piece of mind, use the SDI OUT connector.

My Samurai isn't giving me anything from the headphone out port when I record, only when I playback. Anyone else having this problem, or have a solution?

Why do you say that Mark?
It (apparently) works with about 3 or 4 of the 100s of SSDs that are on the market. And the 3 or 4 that work were introduced 12/18 months ago, and are difficult to source so you have to buy something else that you don't know if it'll work.

Of course.. you don't know it's not recording, because there is no display on the unit, just a variety of lights that flash in patterns. You could easily just check the manual to see what the particular flashing light pattern indicates, but there is no manual. You could plug in a display and press the "DISP" button, and then read the onscreen display, but the "DISP" button doesn't do anything.

I have two of them for different applications, and suffice to say I am not a fan. I cannot return them, but I will be selling them both.

Manual is here.
Blackmagic Design: Support Detail (http://www.blackmagic-design.com/support/detail/?sid=3960&pid=3968&os=mac&leg=0)

SSD drives:
The following SSD's are recommended for uncompressed video capture:

OCZ 240GB Vertex 3
OCZ 480GB Vertex 3
Crucial 256GB C300
Kingston 64GB SSDNow V+
Kingston 128GB SSDNow V+

The OCZ's are readily available on Amazon or Newegg as well as other outlets.
They also have to be formatted as HTF.

I guess I must have missed the manual in the box. Not for lack of looking.

I have used the Crucial and the Kingston, neither with long-term success (although they will occasionally work).

Regardless, I was downright thrilled to see that the Samurai worked out of the box, and will hold hours of footage on the same drive that the BlackMagic would hold 30 minutes on... if it could record for 30 continuous minutes, which it can't.

Well, good to hear that you are having success with the AtomOS

The resulting footage, while not being compressed, looking very grainy. I was a bit shocked as it seems more prominent than the HDV footage I am used to. I reshot thie footage at -3db abd while it is dark, it is much less noisy.

I think you'll find that this is primarily a ProRes issue. In every test I have ever done with ProRes (using PC's, Mac's and other external recorders), the first pass encode to ProRes adds noise not present in the original. In addition not all ProRes encoders are equal, some perform better than others. I'm waiting for the DNxHD option as DNxHD should be much less noisy.

Curious to know what you find out about the DNXHD option, since I still do all my editing on Avid.

I think you'll find that this is primarily a ProRes issue. In every test I have ever done with ProRes (using PC's, Mac's and other external recorders), the first pass encode to ProRes adds noise not present in the original. In addition not all ProRes encoders are equal, some perform better than others. I'm waiting for the DNxHD option as DNxHD should be much less noisy.

Alistair what happens when you try to import native Avid files into Premiere?

I was able to get outside and shoot some nice footage at the park. Granted, my subjects were ducks and geese who were pan-handling bread from my wife and daughter. But the results seem quite good.

I shot with -3db of gain on the XLh1 and the Pro-res 422 option. I thought this was the best setting but it turns out the HQ is. Regardless, the footage was superb. It seems overly sharp when editing on my PC....almost like edge enhancement, but all footage viewed on my PC monitor over the years looks much worse than when viewed on a good HDTV.

As such, I was initially concerned but after outputting to h.264 and vieweing on my TV I am elated. The footage looks brilliant with great colors and no signs of compression. I filmed a good amount of ducks swimming in the lake and the sun was reflecting and none of the HDV artifacts are present (obviously). So far so good.

Using the Control L is working great so far. I shot aproximately 45 clips and it never missing or behave badly. The audio out of the XLh1 via analog to analog on the Samurai worked great so far.

FYI, when I filled up my HDV tape (Rolling as a backup) the Samurai just kept going. Even when I hit the record button to stop, it didn't. So it would appear that the Control L trigger only works if there is a tape inserted. Unless I am mistaken. I had to manually stop the Samurai via the screen. If you don't want to use HDV tape in an older tape based camera you may need another option. I shot most of the day in an ENG over the should style so reaching up to initialize a recording everytime would have been a pain.

Also, the LCD panel is a waste out in broad daylight as it is far too dark to use. I just left it on the "Menu" screen and referenced it from time to time to verify it was recording. It always was. Also, the screen seems rather dark. What I see in my EVF is much brighter, and closer to what I get when recorded. The brightness needs a boost, and I cannot wait until some of the "field monitor" features are enabled in future firmware updates. Still, I cannot recommend this to replace a good field monitor at this point. But for the price....it can't be beat as an "added feature".

I also shot an outside tree lighting ceremony last night, and it was dark! I had no choice but to crank the gain to +12. I knew it would be noisy, but I figured I'd try. Well I was right. The footage was full of grain it looked pretty bad. However, when I applied the NeatVideo noise filter, it cleaned up phenomenally! I think that the footage is more robust so it had more room to manipulate it. I need to try it on HDV of the same clip but I cannot imagine that it will turn out nearly as well.

Well...I will keep you posted as I move forward with the camera and samurai combo. I wish I was running this on an F3 or even an FS100 though. Oh well. I am amazed at the quality of the images. All this and I wasn't even shooting in the HQ mode after all! I'll give that a try.

Thanks all.

Marty...sweet!! I haven't taken mine out for 'a go', yet. I'm looking forward to it. My plan is to take my rig out to the wildlife refuge, hopefully I'll catch some good views of the White Pelicans, maybe a Bald Eagle, I saw one the last time I went fishing. The panorama is stunning during the 'magic hour'.

I have a question, if you don't mind? How did your PC behave while transferring to files to your NLE. Was it cooperative? Did you use QuickTime Player? In the 'User Manual' I haven't seen any reference to 'QuickTime', I'm wondering if Atomos has done away with the need to use QT to trans-code the ProRes?

Thanks,

J.

Marty...

Thanks for the update ! Promising to hear that the analog audio works well. We too...have an original XLH1. I still like having the HDV tape as a backup. Digital is great but still too many little things can go wrong. So it's also good to hear that the lanc connection works well.


How did you connect the RCA's to the Samurai ? It seems it has two inputs? Both look like mini connections ?

How was the battery life on the Samurai ?

Thanks for the updates !!

It seems it has two inputs? Both look like mini connections ?
One 1/8" mini input, one 1/8" mini output. As I mentioned earlier in the page, I plugged my headphones into the output and couldn't get anything... don't know if this is my unit, or a systemic problem.

Mike- Have you enabled headphone output for the channels you are recording? Right above the record
button for each channel is a headphone button which must be switched on to get output of that channel to the phones.

Marty- You say “Using the Control L is working great so far.” Which LANC controller are you using? I have tried a couple of controllers with my XL H1 and neither will trigger the Samurai nor pass through to the camera. Are you perhaps not using a controller and just connecting the camera LANC to the Samurai LANC IN and triggering the camera manually to start the Samurai? This is working for me. I would like to hear from anyone that is using a Canon compatible LANC controller to trigger the Samurai directly (understanding that it must also be terminated at the camera).

Sorry. I am using camera to trigger the samurai at this point. I have not tried with any kind of actual lanc controller that you mount on a tripod. I might need this in the future so will be watching intently to see if you resolve this.

FYI, You cannot power the Samurai by plugging it in. You must use the batteries, and change them out when they run low. It does appear you can run it continuously, if you swap one battery out and charge it while running off the other one.

Mike...I 'think' Marty is referring to the Time Code actuation available on the 'Samurai', it allows HD-SDI 'Trigger Record' to 'start and stop' recording.

J.

I know it looked like I was responding to him, but mine was just a stream of consciousness statement. I had been hoping/assuming you could plug it in to A/C power, and you can't. (Directly, at least). Just wanted to share that.

Aaaahhh. I understand, I'm sorry for the confusion.

J.

I am getting no love triggering the Samurai to record via LANC. Anyone else get it to work? The device I am using has been able to trigger many makes of camera (Canon, Sony) so I am confident it works. Are there flavors of the LANC protocol that I am unaware of?

Also, the Samurai manual (page 13) states this for LANC control:

There are 5 ways to start and stop record.

4. Via LANC for Sony and Canon Cameras
5. Via the LANC serial port
controlled by a third party computer or controller.
For system and OEM integration, contact support@atomos.com


I have contacted Atomos Support and waiting to hear back, but there seems to be a known issue based on this being in the manual.

David- There are definitely different implementations of LANC. I also am having problems with this. According to Atomos, controllers for Sony and most Canon cameras (but not Panasonic) should work. This is contrary to the Samurai User Manual which has a misprint. I have reported the problem to Atomos and they are working on it but I don’t know at what priority. Perhaps if you, and everyone else experiencing this, also contact Atomos Support we can get a quicker solution. One thing they have stressed is that besides a LANC controller connected to the Samurai LANC IN you must also have a connection from the Samurai LANC OUT to the camera (the LANC chain must be terminated at the camera not the Samurai). Not only are my controllers not triggering the Samurai, the Samurai is not passing the commands through to the camera at this time. If anyone gets a solution for this please report here what controller and camera you are using.

Edit: We crossed posts and I see you have reported this also. It also seems that the manual may have already been modified from when I reported this so maybe something will happen soon...

That's interesting, Mike. Can you elaborate on the "loop through"? I am not sure I follow, because if you are sending a line out of the device/camera's LANC where are you supposed to bring the terminating line to? Most camera's I know only have 1 port.

This is a critical problem for me to solve because I am using my Samurai in an unconventional set-up. I have been waiting for months for the Samurai as the last piece and if it doesn't work, well, a lot of time has been wasted on my part.

Yes, David, I know exactly what you mean. My set up is rather unconventional as well (I’ll be starting a thread about it soon.) I paid for the Samurai eight months ago and bought all the other equipment at the same time. By the time the Samurai arrived the “send it back date” was long passed on everything else. Fortunately it all works.

What I was talking about is connecting the LANC controller to the Samurai LANC IN and connecting a patch cord from the Samurai LANC OUT to the camera’s LANC port. This should allow the controller to trigger record/stop on the Samurai while the Samurai passes these commands through to the camera. It would start/stop recording to tape on the camera for a tape back-up and, more importantly for me, pass zoom commands to the lens. Right now the controller won’t trigger the Samurai and commands don’t pass through to the camera. A stop-gap solution for me has been to connect a patch cord from the camera LANC port to the Samurai LANC IN and trigger the camera with it’s IR remote. This also triggers record on the Samurai. I don’t have a reliable way to mount the camera remote to the pan/tilt arm which is how I’m used to working. What Atomos has said definitely will not work is just connecting the controller to the Samurai without a connection from the Samurai out to the camera.

I know they are working on figuring it out. I got another e-mail this morning asking me to try something and report back. So far I have been very pleased with support from Atomos. Here are a couple of other things I have learned from them which I haven’t seen reported yet here:

They intend to produce a sun-screen for the Ninja and Samurai but have not yet started working on it and don’t know when it will be available.

The DNxHD upgrade is expected to ship in February.

Mike Watson-
B&H does list an AC power option for the Samurai. The B&H order No. is ATOMACP001 $80.00

Just tested a tried and true ProLanc controller on a Sony NX5U and the Atomos NINJA. This ProLanc controller is a simple On/Off/Record/Stop affair only. It will control the Sony NX5U when plugged directly into the camera, but when looped through the NINJA neither the camera or ninja work.

It appears the NINJA is not accepting or passing the low voltage Lanc signal during loop through.

Tested another vendors Lanc controller and it to did not work with the NINJA. Rather frustrating if one wants to use the NINJA when mounted on a handheld rig.

Also tested the ProLanc controller directly plugged into my Sony FS-100.It worked fine, yet when looping through the NINJA once again nothing happens!

This is the controller I am using. ProLance LRC-01 controller. http://www.prolanc.com/products.html

Mike Watson-
B&H does list an AC power option for the Samurai. The B&H order No. is ATOMACP001 $80.00
Near as I can tell, there is nowhere on the Samurai to plug in a DC adapter like that one. If there was, they are certainly available for less than $80. I did look for a standard-ish DC jack on the Samurai, and didn't find one, hence my conclusion that it was not possible.

I did qualify my earlier statement, in that I think there is an AC adapter out there that looks like a 970 battery but plugs into the wall (AC/DC transformer style) that would probably power it. I'm sure I have one in the archives here somewhere, as I know I've used one before.

Yes, David, I know exactly what you mean.

What I was talking about is connecting the LANC controller to the Samurai LANC IN and connecting a patch cord from the Samurai LANC OUT to the camera’s LANC port. This should allow the controller to trigger record/stop on the Samurai while the Samurai passes these commands through to the camera. What Atomos has said definitely will not work is just connecting the controller to the Samurai without a connection from the Samurai out to the camera.

I know they are working on figuring it out. I got another e-mail this morning asking me to try something and report back. So far I have been very pleased with support from Atomos.


Thanks for the explanation Mike. Why Atomos does not make this information available is beyond me. Contrary to your experience with Atomos support I cannot say the same. They have yet to respond to my request after 3 days other than an automated reply. Unfortunately, looping through is not an option for me because I am using a custom made BE-HD10 camera that has no LANC. I am triggering with a motion activated device for a camera trap. I suppose I could throw a small Sony handicam into the enclosure to complete the loop, but that is just another thing to have to supply power to which is at a premium in this rig. I really thought this was going to work, but now I may be going with the PIX 240.

Mike-
B&H used the wrong picture, but they do sell the AC adapter for the Samurai. The correct picture can be found in the Samurai manual, item 13, listed as optional. However, if you can find a cheaper solution please let us know as $80 does seem a bit much. Thanks

Robert,
I purchased the Sony AC-VQ1050D and it powers the Samurai no problem. While pricey ($98), time is money and I have no idea how long it will take to get the Atomos version. Plus it includes a 12V adapter so I can charge the batteries from my truck if necessary.

On another note, I can report that the Samurai draws about 6.5 watts in standby and jumps to 7.4-7.6W when recording using a SSD. Just FYI, this is important for the project I'm working on.

David- That is an interesting application. If you can say at this point, what subject are you going after? I have built a couple of camera traps in the past based on the old Pixcontroller boards. They had the ability (although I never used it) to activate a servo which was mostly used to switch on and off Nightshot mode on the Sony cameras. Can your trigger circuit possibly trigger a servo or solenoid to physically touch and trigger the record/stop on the Samurai touch screen? It might be crude but effective.

Sorry about your slow response from Atomos support. I suspect as more and more units get out there they may be temporarily overwhelmed. I was supposed to hear back from them today but haven’t yet.

I just got the craziest email from Atomos announcing their attendance at the 2011 IBC in Amsterdam, September 9 - 13. "FIND US AT STAND 6.C28e". Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't IBC 2011 already occur?

This is a little odd, don't you think?

J.