A while back, I posted about my problem with Vegas shutting down when opening AVCHD files. I was looking into building a system that would be able to handle AVCHD. My current rig seems to be the weak point, and not Vegas, though I'm not 100% sure.

Any of you have problems editing AVCHD with Vegas Pro 8?

What do you think of the following? Cost is $1000.
Thanks,


PC comes with these:

Intel Core i7-930, 8 MB L2 Cache, 2.80 HHz
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
8 GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333 MHz
1.5 TB hard drive, 7200 RPM
AMD Radeon HD 6450 1 GB DDR3
Soundblaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio

Are the following "upgrades" worth the money?

[1] Upgrade CPU to i7-960, 3.20 GHz costs $470.

[2] Upgrade to 12 GB Tri Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333 MHz, 6 DIMMs, costs $160.

[3] Upgrade to AMD Radeon HD 6670 1 GB DDR5 costs $30.
Upgrade to AMD Radeon HD 6770 costs $110
Upgrade to NVIDIA GeForce GTS 450 Single 1 GB costs $190

[4] Upgrade to Soundblaster X-Fi Titanium costs $40

[5] Add 2 USB 3.0 for $38

These 'upgrades' are ridiculously priced. Don't bother with any of them. Is this Dell or HP?

You can buy any of the 'upgrades' for half the price at any street corner and install them yourself. And while you are at the street corner, get at least two additional disks, one of them can be smallish like 320 GB for OS & programs, the other a large one.

The CPU "upgrade" seems real steep, $470! I hope the "base" CPU is good enough. I don't want to upgrade at $470, but don't want to do that later either, changing CPU is somewhat of a pain. The other upgrades are easy. This is a Dell XPS Studio. My friend, who's into gaming, says this rig should be plenty for my purpose. I just want a 2nd opinion from someone who's doing AVCHD editing, and not from a "gamer".

Thanks,

With Vegas I don't know, with Premiere Pro I would say it is OK from the CPU perspective, but then it is a Dell, which means no overclocking, crippled BIOS, and huge prices for anything over the standard configuration. They steal you blind.

I would either build myself or go to a good custom builder where you get a much better system, because this Dell would not even meet minimum requirements for Premiere Pro and is a lousy editing system, even in its basic configuration.

8 GB memory on a triple channel mobo is crazy, because you run in dual channel mode. Either 12 or 24 GB.

Single hard disk??? You need a smallish OS disk and at least two 7200 SATA disks for an editing station.

ATI video card would be considered as a capital crime in Premiere Pro environments, maybe it is OK with Vegas, but I repeat, I don't know about Vegas.

Soundblaster audio card makes no sense when you have on-board audio.

I suggest you forget about Dell. You supplied the evidence they steal you blind. The 960 has about the same price as the 930, maybe $ 10 more, but they charge you $ 470 extra, well you get the picture.

A while back, I posted about my problem with Vegas shutting down when opening AVCHD files. I was looking into building a system that would be able to handle AVCHD. My current rig seems to be the weak point, and not Vegas, though I'm not 100% sure.

Any of you have problems editing AVCHD with Vegas Pro 8?

What do you think of the following? Cost is $1000.
Thanks,


PC comes with these:

Intel Core i7-930, 8 MB L2 Cache, 2.80 HHz
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
8 GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333 MHz
1.5 TB hard drive, 7200 RPM
AMD Radeon HD 6450 1 GB DDR3
Soundblaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio

Are the following "upgrades" worth the money?

[1] Upgrade CPU to i7-960, 3.20 GHz costs $470.

[2] Upgrade to 12 GB Tri Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333 MHz, 6 DIMMs, costs $160.

[3] Upgrade to AMD Radeon HD 6670 1 GB DDR5 costs $30.
Upgrade to AMD Radeon HD 6770 costs $110
Upgrade to NVIDIA GeForce GTS 450 Single 1 GB costs $190

[4] Upgrade to Soundblaster X-Fi Titanium costs $40

[5] Add 2 USB 3.0 for $38

The base configuration is fairly attractively priced - but most if not all of the upgrades are outrageously expensive. In fact, of all the upgrades on that list the only ones that are worth their asking prices are either of the AMD Radeon upgrades - and only then, if you're not planning to use Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.x. And between the HD 6670 and HD 6770, go with the HD 6770 if you're planning to upgrade to Vegas 10 or 11 Pro. If you were not careful with the selection, you could have spent more than $1,800 for a system that performs as slow as some build-it-yourself systems that cost half as much.

As for the X-Fi Xtreme Audio, it is not a true X-Fi card at all - but a software-controlled sound card that basically dates back to the days of the Sound Blaster PCI 64/Ensoniq AudioPCI (although the Xtreme Audio does use a newer controller with newer software than the old PCI 64). As such, for the price of that card it is nowhere near that much better than on-motherboard audio.

And lastly, for Vegas get at least one additional internal hard drive (although Dell does steal you blind on additional hard drives): On single-drive-only systems, no matter what other components you upgrade, that system upgraded to an i7-960 might as well be as slow in performance as a Celeron G5xx-based system with the exact same single disk because the SATA interface that these hard drives use is only half-duplex. That means that the system must wait for the read operation to be completed before any write operations take place (video editing programs require simultaneous reads and writes, which is something that a half-duplex interface like SATA does not allow).

Thank you very much, Harm and Randall. This is the info that a non-geek like myself can digest, well most of it anyways. I will not be using any Adobe Premiere Pro. I will probably upgrade to Vegas Pro in the near future, so will go with Randall's suggestion of the 6770 GPU.

Please let me know if I understand the following correctly:

[And lastly, for Vegas get at least one additional internal hard drive (although Dell does steal you blind on additional hard drives): On single-drive-only systems, no matter what other components you upgrade, that system upgraded to an i7-960 might as well be as slow in performance as a Celeron G5xx-based system with the exact same single disk because the SATA interface that these hard drives use is only half-duplex. That means that the system must wait for the read operation to be completed before any write operations take place (video editing programs require simultaneous reads and writes, which is something that a half-duplex interface like SATA does not allow). ]

If I have 3 internal hard drives, how should my video projects be distributed? I understand that all the system programs, OS,... stay on 1 drive. Should the raw video footage be on the 2nd drive, and the rendered videos be saved to the 3rd drive? I'm a little confused about the last sentence in the bracketed paragraph above.

You have the disk setup 100% correct.

Thank you very much, Harm and Randall. This is the info that a non-geek like myself can digest, well most of it anyways. I will not be using any Adobe Premiere Pro. I will probably upgrade to Vegas Pro in the near future, so will go with Randall's suggestion of the 6770 GPU.

Please let me know if I understand the following correctly:

[And lastly, for Vegas get at least one additional internal hard drive (although Dell does steal you blind on additional hard drives): On single-drive-only systems, no matter what other components you upgrade, that system upgraded to an i7-960 might as well be as slow in performance as a Celeron G5xx-based system with the exact same single disk because the SATA interface that these hard drives use is only half-duplex. That means that the system must wait for the read operation to be completed before any write operations take place (video editing programs require simultaneous reads and writes, which is something that a half-duplex interface like SATA does not allow). ]

If I have 3 internal hard drives, how should my video projects be distributed? I understand that all the system programs, OS,... stay on 1 drive. Should the raw video footage be on the 2nd drive, and the rendered videos be saved to the 3rd drive? I'm a little confused about the last sentence in the bracketed paragraph above.

In your particular case (having three hard drives - one for the OS/programs, one for the raw video files and one for the exports), put the Windows pagefile on the fastest of the three drives and put the media cache and previews on the faster of the two non-OS drives. The project files should go on the same drive as the raw video files.

And what I meant for the slow performance of single-drive systems assumed that the system had only one hard drive - period. That configuration is not recommended for video editing with even a cheapo consumer program. And when I meant "half-duplex" for the SATA interface, it means that SATA allows data transfers in only one direction at a time through a given port.

Randall,

What does "Windows pagefile" mean? Is the operating system a "pagefile"?

What does "media cache" mean? Are you referring to the photo files, mp3 files,...that are added to the video project?

Is it OK to use USB external hard drives?

Thanks,

I read the other post about purpose-built PC, tons of info on there.
What do you guys of buying a pre-built system from HP or Dell. Is HP better?

Thanks,

Both are good ONLY if you stick to the standard configuration and do not upgrade or add anything and do not want to overclock.

If you need to upgrade or add anything both are really bad. They steal you blind with outrageous prices for every extra you add. If you want to overclock, you are in a deep pile of sh*t, because of their crippled BIOS. If you need to replace a PSU, you are in trouble with HP because of deviant dimensions from standard PSU's.

Do not expect them to help you configure a video editing system, even with unlimited funds, because they simply don't know what is required. You have to tell them EXACTLY what you want and need, then they can triple the amount and make you an offer.

You are much better off with a reputable firm for custom-build video editing machines. You get what you need at a much better price and way better service.

After further thinking, I've decided that I'll follow the Videoguys DIY8 build, and assemble it myself.

Mobo ASUS P6X58D-E
CPU Intel i7-980 Hex Core
RAM Corsair XM S3 24 GB
System drive: Hitachi 1 TB 7200 RPM
GPU: n Vidia GTX 470
Case: Antec Nine Hundred Two v3Black ATX ($119)
PSU: Corsair CMPSU-850 TX 850 W
OS: Win 7 Prof OEM
Optical Drive: BDR-206

The CPU and RAM are recommended for their "Hotrod" system, but I just selected them for my "Budget" system, replacing the Intel i7-950 Quad Core and 12 GB of RAM. The Antec case has a bunch of bays for drives, so I'll add 2 more of the Hitachi 1 TB 7200 RPM drives, for a total of 3.

What do you guys think?

AVCHD is a highly compressed format that's not meant for editing. Converting it to a less compressed format would be a better solution instead of spending all that money. It doesn't mean buying a newer system is a bad idea, but it would save you from getting high end cpu.

Pete,
Are you talking about Cineform Neoscene?

I do my editing primarily on the Mac and convert to AIC or ProRes, I don't know the comparable codec for the PC but I'm sure someone here could tell you. Converting is not without its draw backs, mainly the time it takes. Not knowing your budget and process its difficult to say what would be best.

The videoguys DIY8 build is around $1500, with my "upgrades", it should still be under $2000, which is my budget. the current PC is 3 years old, Q6600 cpu, Win XP,.... While converting the raw AVCHD footage, using Cineform, may work, I feel my system is getting long in the tooth. Might as well get a new one. I'll have to think about this a little bit. My problem is that Vegas shuts down when I import the AVCHD files. If Cineform can convert those files into something else that doesn't cause Vegas to die, then it'll be worth the $129 cost.

Thanks,

Why don't you download their trial version and see if that fixes the problem. If it does then you can stay with your current system or do a budget build.

http://estore.cineform.com/downloads.aspx

I was able to build $600 i5 system that does great. For $800 you should be able to build a budget i7. You'll find you'll end up spending a disproportional amount of money to get a small performance gain above a basic system. In my opinion any system you build no matter how expensive will be slow after 5 years.

I will d/l the trial Cineform and go from there.
Thanks,

Update: Cineform Neoscene converted all the troublesome files to avi. The file size increased about 10 times. Vegas imported them fine, and I am happily editing again. No new PC needed!

Good to hear that worked.

Thanks Pete!!

Update: In my previous update, I reported no problem. That project was only 9 minutes long, and at that time the Neoscene trial was still in effect (within 2 weeks of downloading).

My latest project is 15+ minutes long. Neoscene trial download has expired. However, I used Neoscene to convert those AVCHD files to .avi before the expiration date. I attempted to render to Sony AVC (same as the previous successful project). Vegas just shut down at about 20% into the render, I tried this 5 times, and the stoppage occurred at exactly the same point (20%). The part that WAS rendered played fine, the size of this file is 698 MB.

[1] Is it possible that the trial version of Neoscene has a timecode built-in, to disrupt all the files that were converted to .avi by Neoscene DURING the effective trial period, but were not used in a project & rendered until AFTER Neoscene expired? My thinking in asking this question is that Neoscene wants me to purchase the full version. No big deal, I was planning on doing it anyways.

[2] Since Vegas shut down without any warning message(s), is there a log file maintained by Vegas somewhere on my computer? Maybe I can post that log file, so you guys can help me.

Thanks,

I, too, have a Q6600 based machine and had only two ways I could realistically edit AVCHD (and it wouldn't even touch Canon DSLR MOV's!). One was to drop the bitrate in the camera to 12Mbps, and the other was to replace the ATI card with an Nvidia and then I had to "go slow" and use 2nd track and transitions sparingly.

A Core i7 920 based machine did some better but still could not handle the Canon DSLR files without transcoding.

A few weeks ago I got an HP h8 with 2nd generation Core i7 2600, 8GB RAM, Nvidia 530 1GB (upgrade for $60 IIRC), and a few minor tweaks (including bigger power supply). Cost came in at just under $1250 and with discount coupons (and special sale) it came in at $964.

In today's editing environment there may be no substitute for a modern fast CPU. I use what is probably the most PC resource "HONGRY" NLE package (Avid Pinnacle Studio 15 - latest version) and I can drop both AVCHD and Canon DSLR MOV clips on the same timeline and editing seems to be going smooth as butter. With this computer, I can come in straight from a shoot, copy the "take" from media cards to a pair of external hard drives (for redundant storage), copy what I need from one of them to an internal and be editing within minutes.

You were on the right track with the Core i7 hex core machine but could get by with a lot less than 24GB RAM.

Hi Bruce

Vegas doesn't depend on the video card at all up to version 10..version 11 will be different. I could actually struggle thru AVCHD at 17mbps on my little DuoCore 2.2 but preview was awful and it rendered with Vegas 9 about 8 X realtime!!!

With my i7 2600 and 8GB ram (much the same as you) and a simple video card I can preview 24 mbps video at full resolution and the render is super fast too (sometimes pretty close to just 1/3rd of realtime)

It's so nice to render a 20 minute wedding ceremony in 7 or 8 minutes instead of over 2 hours or more!!!

That's in Version 10E at present!!! Plenty fast enough for me!!!

Chris

This machine would be good IMO. MSI Global ? Notebook - GT780 (http://www.msi.com/product/nb/GT780.html)

When I try and play AVCHD codec on the adobe premiere pro 5.5 time line at full resolution it sticks and studders. It is better if I play back in 1/2 resolution. However HDV files and DV files play smoothly and perfectly fine at full resolution. I guess decompressing the highly compressed AVCHD codec will always be a painful process. I won't go into all the details but I have a souped up system. 64 bit, 12gb ram 10,000rpm hard drive and AVCHD is just not a good codec for me. I will stick with SD & HD files or P2HD etc., but no more AVCHD for me.

Larry Kropp
L&M Video