Hi Guys,

i know the 5DMK2 has great video quality but is it worth that much more than the T3i (600D) for shooting just video? I can't seem to find out why the larger companies always use the 5DMK2 for video if the T3i is just as good with a good piece of glass. What am I missing?

Take a 24mm 2.8 lens and put it on a T3i. Make a note of how wide of an area it covers. The put the same lens on a full frame 5DMII, and make note of the area it covers. You'll see you're getting more real estate in the 5D. I have both, love both for different reasons.

What you lose on the wide end you gain with a telephoto. There is a 1.6X crop factor with the Canon APS-C sensor DSLRs compared to the full frame 5DII. Therefore a 24mm lens on the 600D is the equivalent of a 38.4mm lens on the 5DII whereas a 200mm lens on the 5DII is an effective 320mm on the 600D.

Video from the 600D & the 5DII is indistinguishable except in low light where the larger sensor of the 5DII means less noise at high ISO. There is also a shallower depth of field with the full frame camera which makes focusing at wide apertures more difficult but may be the look that you are seeking.

DOF and ISO is a pretty huge difference.

I would add choice of fast wide glass to the list, 20/1.8, 24/1.4, 35/1.4 are not easily found in APS-C. It's also hard to find a 50/1.2 or 85/1.2 equiv in aps-c.

Many of those lenses cost as much if not more than a 5Dm2, so for a production company, the cost of the body isn't that big of a deal.

Another factor may be the CPS (Canon Professional Services) eligibility, the 5Dm2 qualifies but not the T3i.

I have the T2i and the 5D. There is no doubt in my mind that at any given ISO, the T2i is noisier than the 5D. With the 5D, exposed right, you can get into ISO 2500. With the T2i, ISO 800 is about max I want to go. The other problem with the T2i is the ISO. They use 100, 200, 400, etc.. up the progression, which are ISO that have gain added, in my understanding. In Magic Lantern you can set t2i at 160, 320, 640 etc., and avoid that. The 5D gives you that benefit without resort to Magic Lantern.

Despite that, I was considerting stepping up to the T3i because of the LCD, and because of the digital zoom which should be helpful in nature shooting. However, the Sony VG -20 announcement has paused my consideration a bit.

Video from the 600D & the 5DII is indistinguishable except in low light where the larger sensor of the 5DII means less noise at high ISO. There is also a shallower depth of field with the full frame camera which makes focusing at wide apertures more difficult but may be the look that you are seeking.

Would a light led panel not help stopping the need for me to increase the ISO if I am shooting indoor weddings? I am trying to find an example anywhere of the 5D vs the 600D DOF just so I can have a "Ohhhh I Seee" moment.

Both are great, and each has their points for and against.

Pro's for the 5dmkII: More fast, wide primes available, better lowlight sensitivity, can get shallower DOF, better build quality.

Pro's for the T3i: Rotating LCD, no overheating, 50p/60p, more zooms to choose from, cheaper lenses, 3x crop mode.

Interesting discussion here

I actually use both these cameras and do love the quality of the 5D more , its simply due to me shooting more in the Forests where mist, rain is a normal situation and 5D gives you that additional ISO without affecting the videos that much. T3i has issues with ISO above 800 in lowlight.

the use of T3i for me is the 3X zoom and the LCD since i shoot more wildlife the 3x with crop sensor and the 800 mm helps. This has to be taken with a pinch of salt as that level of zoom even captures your breath on the video frame as a shake :)

I am very new to ML and installed it only yesterday and trying to explore it.

5D i can bet on anyday with any conditions to perform, its built for performance and can handle most of the conditions very well.
Finally it boils down to money and if you have the extra money anyday the 5D will give you more value for it anyday.

The advantages of the 5DII over the 600D/T3i as noted above apply to all the APS-C Canon DSLRs i.e. 7D, 60D, 550D/T2i I own both the 5DII & the 600D & couldn't justify the extra cost of the 7D or 60D when the same issues apply & the video is no better. In fact the 3X HD crop mode vs. the 640x360 3X crop mode of the 60D & the manual audio gain controls vs. the 7D in my opinion make it a better camera for video & I would still have bought a 600D even if it wasn't cheaper than either of these models.

the use of T3i for me is the 3X zoom and the LCD since i shoot more wildlife the 3x with crop sensor and the 800 mm helps. This has to be taken with a pinch of salt as that level of zoom even captures your breath on the video frame as a shake :)


But this is nothing to do with the camera, as it would apply to shooting the same FOV on any camera, so I can't see how it's relevent in the comparison between the 2.


Finally it boils down to money and if you have the extra money anyday the 5D will give you more value for it anyday.

If you need the extra latitude, then an all round value discussion doesn't apply here. In such a discussion, you have to take a rounded view and weigh up all the features in a range of situations.

If you took a poll, I would be amazed if more than 10% considered the 5D better value, at least if they were properly informed about the relative merits.

the use of T3i for me is the 3X zoom and the LCD since i shoot more wildlife the 3x with crop sensor and the 800 mm helps. This has to be taken with a pinch of salt as that level of zoom even captures your breath on the video frame as a shake :)
But this is nothing to do with the camera, as it would apply to shooting the same FOV on any camera, so I can't see how it's relevent in the comparison between the 2.The 5DII does not even have the 3X HD crop mode. I have just been filming some birds in the garden with my 600D using a 70-200 F/2.8L with 2X teleconverter & 3X crop mode which added together is the equivalent of a 1920mm F/5.6 lens on the 5DII. I am using a tripod so there is no shake.

Both are great, and each has their points for and against.

Pro's for the 5dmkII: More fast, wide primes available, better lowlight sensitivity, can get shallower DOF, better build quality.

Pro's for the T3i: Rotating LCD, no overheating, 50p/60p, more zooms to choose from, cheaper lenses, 3x crop mode.

Where did you hear that the T3i didn't overheat? I used one for 30 mins and then it overheated. A 5D right next to it was fine for the entire day. Also, the 5D has lower noise overall compared to the T3i If I set them both to 1600 ISO, the 5D will look much better than the t3i.
Another thing you get for the cost is durability. The T3i is made of cheap plastic; the 5D is made out of magnesium. Also, The shutter life is much higher on the 5D.

Where did you hear that the T3i didn't overheat? I used one for 30 mins and then it overheated. A 5D right next to it was fine for the entire day. Also, the 5D has lower noise overall compared to the T3i If I set them both to 1600 ISO, the 5D will look much better than the t3i.
Another thing you get for the cost is durability. The T3i is made of cheap plastic; the 5D is made out of magnesium. Also, The shutter life is much higher on the 5D.That is the very first report that I have seen of the T3i/600D overheating. I have used one extensively alongside 5DIIs & never had it overheat. It is somewhat dependent on ambient temperature so my use of it in a British summer is not a real stress test.

The 5DII is the only full frame Canon DSLR & is a special case for low noise at high ISO although the 1D Mk IV (APS-H 1.3X crop sensor) is said to be even better. If you compare the other APS-C cameras they are all the same with regard to noise whether it's the 7D, 60D, 550D/T2i or 600D/T3i.

Where did you hear that the T3i didn't overheat? I used one for 30 mins and then it overheated. A 5D right next to it was fine for the entire day. Also, the 5D has lower noise overall compared to the T3i If I set them both to 1600 ISO, the 5D will look much better than the t3i.
Another thing you get for the cost is durability. The T3i is made of cheap plastic; the 5D is made out of magnesium. Also, The shutter life is much higher on the 5D.

This is also the very first report I've heard of the t3i overheating.

Can you please confirm that it was definitely a t3i and not a t2i?

Where did you hear that the T3i didn't overheat? I used one for 30 mins and then it overheated. A 5D right next to it was fine for the entire day. Also, the 5D has lower noise overall compared to the T3i If I set them both to 1600 ISO, the 5D will look much better than the t3i.
Another thing you get for the cost is durability. The T3i is made of cheap plastic; the 5D is made out of magnesium. Also, The shutter life is much higher on the 5D.

Yep, this is the first I have heard of this too! I have used my t3i all summer in 105 degree texas heat shooting outside weddings and music videos and have never seen it once. I think this maybe the t2i you are referring too. I have 2 of those and they overheat all the time. Sometimes only after 10 minutes in direct sunlight. I'm trying to get rid of them but I do like using magic lantern on them for long events, because I can turn the bit rate down and record longer clips! Of course in a cooled environment when overheating is not so frequent.

It had a flippy screen and it said Canon on it. It also said T3i on the front. It definitely overheated.

In that case I have to say that you sir are the unluckiest t3i owner on the planet!This is the only report I've ever heard of a 600D/T3i (or a 60D) overheating.

Were you shooting with the stock battery? Did you have a monitor/grip/anything else plugged in? Is it reproducable? Were the any other mitigating factors (ie were you shooting in a bushfire?)?

It definitely overheated.
No offense, but it be interesting to know what 'definitely overheated' looks like too.
(I thought my 60D overheated once, but it was actually something else.)

The overheating icon popped up and the screen said "Movie recording hav been stopped automatically" (or something along those lines). I was using name brand batteries without a battery grip and I was using Canon glass. The only thing I had on there was a zacuto loupe. I don't think that's the cause of it though. It may have just been a freak occurrence.

Icon: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachments/canon-eos-7d-hd/14316d1254360237-overheating-warning-icon-mild-temperatures-7dtempwarning.png

Were you able to start recording again immediately? Or did you need to switch the camera off and wait for a while?

Also, are you sure the icon that appeared was not the buffer icon? It looks kind of similar and I thought my 550D was overheating several times when in actual fact it was that my cards were too slow.

Yeah, same here. My card wasn't full or too slow but it was fragmented and it would stop recording once each empty space was full (always start with a clean card kids).

On the 550d the temperature warning will appear and flash for a good few seconds before recording actually stops and live view will often shut down (I can't say what the 60 does since I realised I've never actually seen it)

I've also been using a T3i with no overheating. In California this summer. Outside. No shade.

Suggest you return this unit to the dealer or to Canon service and get a new one.

Best wishes,

Harry.

If the sun shines into the loupe, it can heat the camera, if not burn the LCD(!)

Where did you hear that the T3i didn't overheat? I used one for 30 mins and then it overheated. A 5D right next to it was fine for the entire day. Also, the 5D has lower noise overall compared to the T3i If I set them both to 1600 ISO, the 5D will look much better than the t3i.
Another thing you get for the cost is durability. The T3i is made of cheap plastic; the 5D is made out of magnesium. Also, The shutter life is much higher on the 5D.

I'm sorry but I'm calling BS. You must have been shooting with a T2i not a T3i. I own 2 T2is, 3 T3is, 2 60ds and my shooters both own T3is. All 5 of the T3i's have been used out in in some pretty high heat (90+ degrees) for extended events without even a hint of over heating while the T2i is overheating in about 15 minutes. The T3i is plenty robust for most shooting conditions.

EDIT: After reading the other response I think you had a buffer issue shut down recording. Overheating doesn't always shut down the camera. My t2is that overheat don't ever shut themselves off.

As far as noise at 1600... prove it. I shoot at 1600 all the time and if there's much noise it's barely noticeable. Certainly not noticeable enough to warrant spending another $2k to get a 5D.

Sorry man but you're sounding like one of the 5D evangelists who won't allow themselves to believe these little cameras (t3i, 60d, T2i) that are a fraction of the cost of a 5D can produce comparable results.

I'm sorry but I'm calling BS. You must have been shooting with a T2i not a T3i. I own 2 T2is, 3 T3is, 2 60ds and my shooters both own T3is. All 5 of the T3i's have been used out in in some pretty high heat (90+ degrees) for extended events without even a hint of over heating while the T2i is overheating in about 15 minutes. The T3i is plenty robust for most shooting conditions.

EDIT: After reading the other response I think you had a buffer issue shut down recording. Overheating doesn't always shut down the camera. My t2is that overheat don't ever shut themselves off.

As far as noise at 1600... prove it. I shoot at 1600 all the time and if there's much noise it's barely noticeable. Certainly not noticeable enough to warrant spending another $2k to get a 5D.

Sorry man but you're sounding like one of the 5D evangelists who won't allow themselves to believe these little cameras (t3i, 60d, T2i) that are a fraction of the cost of a 5D can produce comparable results.

Scott, I think the 5dII has about a stop less noise in that range. This is fairly predictable owing to the difference in sensor size.

Agreed. The 5D2 has a bit less noise and can be used at a slightly higher ISO. I stick with multiples of 160 though, and try to keep it at 1250 or below.

But the drop off from the 5D2 to the crop cams isn't a huge deal. The quality depends more on the shooter and scene than which Canon DSLR one owns.

The 5DII is good for at least another stop of light as it is usable up to its maximum ISO of 3200 which can make all the difference. A 16-35mm lens is also really 16-35mm & not an effective 25-55mm. These are the two big advantages of the 5DII versus the crop sensor Canon DSLRs. Build quality may be a consideration too. I own both a 5DII & 600D/T3i & if I had to choose only one it would be the 5DII but if I were to buy another it would be the 600D.

No overheating here (T3i).

Scott, I think the 5dII has about a stop less noise in that range. This is fairly predictable owing to the difference in sensor size.

that had nothing to do with the discussion...? The issue was the amount of noise at 1600 ISO. If there is more noise at 1600, it' isn't enough to warrant spending another 2k. And yes I agree the 5D has a 1 stop of light advantage over the T3i and other similar cameras, an again I don't think it's worth $2k for that one stop. If you are shooting in that low of light I would rather spend that money on an off camera lighting kit.

that had nothing to do with the discussion...? The issue was the amount of noise at 1600 ISO. If there is more noise at 1600, it' isn't enough to warrant spending another 2k. And yes I agree the 5D has a 1 stop of light advantage over the T3i and other similar cameras, an again I don't think it's worth $2k for that one stop. If you are shooting in that low of light I would rather spend that money on an off camera lighting kit.

Sorry for being so dumb Scott. I will try harder in future.

that had nothing to do with the discussion...? The issue was the amount of noise at 1600 ISO. If there is more noise at 1600, it' isn't enough to warrant spending another 2k. And yes I agree the 5D has a 1 stop of light advantage over the T3i and other similar cameras, an again I don't think it's worth $2k for that one stop. If you are shooting in that low of light I would rather spend that money on an off camera lighting kit.There are many occasions where it's not possible to use an off camera lighting kit e.g. in church, run & gun documentary etc. In any case low light performance isn't the only advantage of the 5DII. Good wide angle lenses are another. Build quality & superior still photographs are others. All in all a 5DII is my first choice camera with a 600D as my second choice. Here in the UK the difference in price is only around £1000 i.e. about $1500 although putting that in perspective it means that you can buy three 600Ds for the price of one 5DII.

Jumping a little late, but for me the 5d2 was worth the extra expense. The quality of construction, controls and the pro shutter make it a better long term investment. You'll get a lot more clicks out of the 5d2 than any of the lower cost models. The rear jog-dial is a must have, no more video game controls for me on a DSLR ... though they are fine on something like the NEX or the Fuji X100 that I use as walkaround or B cameras tot he 5d2. The extra sensitivity and less noise are a big for me as well since I like to frequently shoot wide and in natural light - the FF sensor allows you to take full advantage of the lens' FOV and aperture. So while the cost of the t3i body is lower, a lens that gives you the FOV of a fast 35mm or 24mm will cost quite a bit more, and in many focal lengths it just doesn't exist. I just picked up a Zeiss 21/2.8, which would be a grossly overpriced 34/4 equivalent on a cropper. The 35/2 is half the cost of the 21. That $900 difference is more than half the difference between the 5d2 body and the t3i body. When you start investing in fast glass for specific FOV's, the price gap narrows pretty quickly. I guess it depends on your needs if there aren't budget restrictions. If I shot wildlife I'd buy the 7d. The added cost for pro construction and a FF sensor is worth the investment.

Disregarding video quality and which one's better and if they're the same, a canon 5D MKII is still going to be working 10 years from now and It's going to hold on to it's value pretty well. A T3i will maybe last 3 years with standard usage and if it is still working in 10 years, It'll make a great paperweight.

I agree with Chris. Want to use primes? Get the 5D2. You can get fast set of primes from wide to medium tele. Want zooms? Get a crop cam. You can get an 11-17 as well as a 17-55/2.8 with IS. Can't match that on the 5D2. (The 24-70/2.8 has no IS.)

One thing that confuses me is why to shoot at 1600 ISO? The low noise settings on the 5D2 are 160, 320, 640, and 1250. If you must, go for 2500 ISO, rather than 1600.

Of course, everybody has their own feeling about how much noise is too much noise depending on their projects, their monitoring, and their personal preferences. Some shoot at 6400 ISO and are thrilled that they can use so little light. Others won't go one stop over 160 ISO, preferring to burn watts rather than see noise. Some use noise reduction regularly. Others won't touch it. We might be able to measure noise scientifically, but tolerance for noise is subjective.

Disregarding video quality and which one's better and if they're the same, a canon 5D MKII is still going to be working 10 years from now and It's going to hold on to it's value pretty well. A T3i will maybe last 3 years with standard usage and if it is still working in 10 years, It'll make a great paperweight.

Let's be fair here. That's a bit of an exaggeration, no? My Canon Rebel XT from 2005 is still working great -- plenty of wear and tear. And there's no way that's a better built camera than the T3i -- or am I missing something.

We have the original 300D and I've put it thru some seriously tough conditions, and it still works fine after a shutter replacement, so that the T3i won't last 3 years is just bogus.

We still also have and use a 350D, 400D, 20D, 1Ds, all much more than 3 years old. The pro bodies are expected to last, but the consumer bodies are not junk.