I have browsed countless forums and seen videos...
I can't seem to decide....
the M41 has the same sensor but a lower quality lens than the other 2
the g10 has a good lens and a few extra manual control (I think the M41 has very few if any), and the XA adds the convenience of the detachable grip and zebra and peaking

there is quite a gap between the M41 and the XA in terms of cost (almost 3 times the price!) whereas the G10 is kind of in the middle

what I like about these camcorders is the alleged good low light performance.
Can anyone tell me how many manual control you have on the M41 and if it's enough as a B-cam?

Dont know much about the M41.
The G10 and XA10, are the same camera, imaging wise. The XA10 does have a few extra features. If sound is important, go for the XA10. Both cameras will deliver higher resolution than your 5d.
I had a play with an XA10 a couple of weeks ago, outstanding quality, and very user friendly.

The m41 has practically the same low light IQ with the other two. Both the XA10 and the G10 will go higher in db gain (+24 vs +18 db) but +18 is more than enough and you don't really want to go any higher than that anyway.

m41 gives you the option of manual exposure through an exposure lock/exposure compensation mode.
you hit exposure on the touch screen menu, select M and the camera locks the current exposure. After that you can go +/-3stops and adjust exposure.

On the XA10 you have some more control thanks to the additional exposure wheel on the back of the camera.

I believe the m41 has the best value for money ratio among all cameras in the market as a B-role camera.

The lens doesn't seem to be that bad (i can't see a difference with the XA10 lens) and it is as fast as the lens on the G10 & XA10, just not as wide, starting at a 43mm equivalent compare to 30.5mm on the other two.

I have to mention though that AF is equaly bad on all three (well I haven't tried the G10 but I can safely assume that it is the same as the XA10)
The XF100 with the descent sized focus ring is much better in this regard as you can at least use manual focus a lot easier.

aside from the handle and audio controls.
what are the other differences in manual controls between the G10 and the XA-10?

The XA 10, with the handle off, is essentially a G 10 with 64 GB of on-board storage.
To the best of my knowledge, the controls, functions, menus, etc. are near identical.

The XA 10, with the handle off, is essentially a G 10 with 64 GB of on-board storage.
To the best of my knowledge, the controls, functions, menus, etc. are near identical.

The XA10 has a standard hot shoe located on the front of the unit, where the handle connects, while the G10 has one of those Canon "intelligent" shoes located at the back of the camera near the viewfinder. The G10 also does not have the infrared mode that the XA10 has. Those are the biggest differences (besides the built in memory size).

I read a lot about the rattle issue for the XA10, supposedly the XLR switches

can someone advise on how to check this in store, so that I don't end up buying a lemon?

The rattle is not an issue, if you test hard enough you will find its the same on most Canon and other cams that utilise this kind of sliding switch. It was the same a few years ago with the XH-A1. Its not a fault, simply the design of the switches.

The rattle is not an issue, if you test hard enough you will find its the same on most Canon and other cams that utilise this kind of sliding switch. It was the same a few years ago with the XH-A1. Its not a fault, simply the design of the switches.

this is not an issue?!
XA10 Handle Rattle on Vimeo

Colin, you are kidding right? not sure someone included a permanent "maracas" mode
if it's simply the design than it's... bad design

watching the last few seconds it looks like a toy...

The rattles on my XH-A1 were nothing lile that, likewise the XA10 I used a couple of weeks ago. It sounded very much like the fixing screws at the back of the handle rattling in the final shot. All the sliding switches are loose on the Canons, if you tap them they rattle. Never thought of it as a problem on cameras at this price point. Go and check a camera out if you get the chance, you will see what I mean.
But it definately sounded like the screws rattling, I would not think the switches are heavy enough to make that sort of sound. As I said, the switches on the XA10 I used, rattled, if you flicked them, but nothing like that.

I read a lot about the rattle issue for the XA10, supposedly the XLR switches

can someone advise on how to check this in store, so that I don't end up buying a lemon?

The rattles on my XH-A1 were nothing lile that, likewise the XA10 I used a couple of weeks ago. It sounded very much like the fixing screws at the back of the handle rattling in the final shot. All the sliding switches are loose on the Canons, if you tap them they rattle. Never thought of it as a problem on cameras at this price point. Go and check a camera out if you get the chance, you will see what I mean.
But it definately sounded like the screws rattling, I would not think the switches are heavy enough to make that sort of sound. As I said, the switches on the XA10 I used, rattled, if you flicked them, but nothing like that.

thanks that's precisely why I had asked what to look for when buying it - I guess holding the handle alone and shaking it like in the videos would be enough to see if you are buying a lemon. But Canon should rectify this - not sure I agree with your comment implying that a customer shelling out £1600 on a camcorder shouldn't complain about something like this? I have owned a number of quality camcorders (ex1r, Z1 etc) as well as cheaper ones (panasonic TMs etc) and never had maracas mode : )

Both cameras will deliver higher resolution than your 5d. I had a play with an XA10 a couple of weeks ago, outstanding quality, and very user friendly.

Is this true? I've never heard that the XA10 has better resolution than the 5D?

The rattles on my XH-A1 were nothing lile that, likewise the XA10 I used a couple of weeks ago. It sounded very much like the fixing screws at the back of the handle rattling in the final shot. All the sliding switches are loose on the Canons, if you tap them they rattle. Never thought of it as a problem on cameras at this price point. Go and check a camera out if you get the chance, you will see what I mean.
But it definately sounded like the screws rattling, I would not think the switches are heavy enough to make that sort of sound. As I said, the switches on the XA10 I used, rattled, if you flicked them, but nothing like that.

OK so went to a shop and held the XA in my hands... that thing bloody rattles like crazy! the build quality of the handle resembles that of a toy, frankly speaking.
I also tried an XF100 and the switches rattled too, but it has a small plastic cover so it's a non-issue

even the guy @ the shop was speechless, and couldn't believe how stupid this was, even more because the noise occurs right on top of the mics

The rattles on my XH-A1 were nothing lile that, likewise the XA10 I used a couple of weeks ago. It sounded very much like the fixing screws at the back of the handle rattling in the final shot. All the sliding switches are loose on the Canons, if you tap them they rattle. Never thought of it as a problem on cameras at this price point. Go and check a camera out if you get the chance, you will see what I mean.
But it definately sounded like the screws rattling, I would not think the switches are heavy enough to make that sort of sound. As I said, the switches on the XA10 I used, rattled, if you flicked them, but nothing like that.

Is this true? I've never heard that the XA10 has better resolution than the 5D?

me neither

Its common knowledge. DSLRs do an awful job of downsamping. Its called line skipping, basically they ditch 2 out of 3 lines when downconverting from, for example, 18 MP, to the 2 MP needed for HD video. Consumer Video cams have a far higher resolution. Google it, its all out there.
http://ninofilm.net/blog/2010/04/17/536/
http://poetzerofilm.com/2010/04/8-reasons-not-to-buy-a-dslr/
Guys, please dont think I am knocking DSLRs, I use one, and love it, but I am very aware of its limitations, and use it accordingly. A DSLR in it current stage of development could never replace my video cams. In the near future we will see a great deal of activity from manufacturers as they continue to develop large sensor video cameras. The imminent VG20 from Sony looks very interesting indeed.

I have the XA10 and the rattle issue is not an issue for me at all. I don't do walking shots much and if I do I would walk much more smoothly than you are Fredrico. If I can see the camera shake with each step as I can see in your video, then I am not walking properly.

In any event, as a professional videographer there is plenty of ambient noise (weddings, etc) that make the rattle a non-issue. In any event my walking shots are normally edited out or set to music. On a steadicam it wouldn't occur. During normal shooting using proper technique the rattle will not occur. It is, to me much ado about nothing. Technically one could complain, but on a practical level, it's not important to me, and it shouldn't be for most people who are using proper shooting technique.

On the other hand, for doc or ENG purposes, I could see it as an issue, but in that case you are likely using a more advanced camera. If your specific style requires that you shoot in a way that you will hear the rattle, you might have problems.