I wondered what folks thought about the Vimeo Pro (as an upgrade to to the plus) option. Obviously it has some cool perks such as building custom, private pages and customizing the player, but I wondered if this is vimeo trying to get us videographer folks out of the plus and into the more expensive pro on new rules of terms of use policy.

I use the "plus" feature and use it to embed previews, but do not depend on vimeo for storage space (which I'm not allowed because of their terms) -- I have plenty of storage space on my own if I needed it, but I use vimeo because I like the player and its architecture.

Even now, after the advent of "pro", vimeo still seems to have an "out" for small scale production companies and "artists" (unless I'm reading this wrong), stating: "You can't use vimeo plus for commercial use UNLESS you are a small-scale independent production company, non-profit, or artist, in which case you may use the Vimeo Service to showcase or promote your own creative works."

Any thoughts? There must be tons of us out there who fall into this category as we all seem to use vimeo.

I guess that it's all down to how Vimeo choose to interpret their T&Cs. Thus far they have chosen to ignore all of us using their service to embed videos on a commercial basis. Just like they ignore all those infringing copyright with the music dubbed onto their videos. Their attitude could change.

The most generous interpretation of the T&Cs could allow that any display of a video produced by a "small-scale independent production company, non-profit, or artist" could be said to "showcase or promote their own creative works".

Just like they ignore all those infringing copyright with the music dubbed onto their videos.

I never understood their attitude against this one, it's stated in their T&C that it's not allowed but I find many video's, also from many "small" production companies that use music from known artists. I guess they just try to take in as many as clients possible before one or the other music rights organisations forces them to check on all uploads and remove not licensed songs, unless the uploader can prove otherwise.

Vimeo is anything but clear or consistent when it comes to their T&C's. Since they tend to ignore their own rules, so do I.

I have no intention of paying Vimeo for anything, and if they start cracking down, I'll go back to YouTube. One isn't better than the other, although I've noticed that there seems to be a much higher snob population on Vimeo.

The most generous interpretation of the T&Cs could allow that any display of a video produced by a "small-scale independent production company, non-profit, or artist" could be said to "showcase or promote their own creative works".

I don't see that as a generous interpretation; I see that is what they're saying. Wedding videographers *are* small-scale independent production companies, for the most part, so doesn't this put us in that category.

And yes, they're definitely being ambiguous about the dubbed music in the policy vs. practice. I play it safe, therefore (and that's why most all my wedding trailers use the same couple/only tunes I like from royalty free sites :) )

I wondered about this as soon as I heard they were adding "Pro". I don't think they're going to go after small producers, many of whom are already Plus customers. I'm an independent producer and I use the Plus service for my portfolio and demos, which is perfectly within the terms as far as I can tell. Maybe they will go after people using the service as "preview hosting" for their clients.

I have a hunch the main intention is to go after entities who are using Vimeo as a free hosting service for their catalog of content, commercial or otherwise. All of the companies and tv channels (commercial, public, cable access, or otherwise) that are currently using Vimeo to host their business videos or tv programming could be in trouble. I know of at least two TV channels in my area (one of which is major PBS affiliate) that use Vimeo to redistribute their programming, a clear violation of the terms of service. Groups like this must be using a ton of server space and bandwidth which I suspect Vimeo would like to get paid for.

I'd like to chime in here. I like Vimeo very much, despite some small issues.

Vimeo Pro is designed for small businesses and has more features than most event videographers need or will ever use. If you have $199 a year to spend, it is a great deal if you need the features it offers, and it has lots of features.

Vimeo is not trying to force anyone into anything or "go after" anyone. What they are doing is no different than we do when one of us offers a more inclusive video package and we charge more. Vimeo basic is enough for me as of today, but I will definitely upgrade to Plus in the near future as I'm sure I will need it.

Most people, as a rule, wants everything cheap or free, that is the current mindset nowadays. I see it when a bride wants a cinematic video but only wants to pay $1500 for it.

The Vimeo folks are no different than we are, they are simply trying to make a living, and if we don't want the product, we dont have to buy it.

YouTube has advantages, but it is so cliched it's beyond redemption for me. The atomostphere and nature of the majority of the garbage on YouTube is just a turn off to me.

Vimeo is meant as a showcase for independent filmmakers, and they have really stuck to their vision, and I like that about them. Sure they are inconsistent in the application of rules, I'm sure they have nowhere near the manpower or staff to monitor everything that goes on.

Vimeo displays integrity and vision in they way they conduct their business, and I like being associated with that. I like not having porn and other nonsense in the same forum where my videos are located, and that is worth something to be sure, at least for me.

A simple google search turns up an answer to the difference between a pro account and a plus account and it's straight from Vimeo!

Vimeo FAQ (http://vimeo.com/help/faq#vs_plus)

I have a plus account and I'm sticking with it. I like the customizable embed options, the option to password protect my clips and I like that vimeo is using html5 so the videos are playable on mobile devices like the iPhone and iPad. I also like the Vimeo App, that I use constantly on my iPhone, iPad.

From what I could glean from all the information I read, it looks to be nothing more than a commercial hosting account. The embedded player has no logo, no tell tale sign it was a quickie embed on your site. It also has no obvious links back to the main Vimeo site where your visitors might also find that your competition might also have their videos uploaded. From what I took away from it, it has the ease and simplicity of an embed, with the look and feel of self hosted.

But I could be all wet too, YMMV.

Your observations sound spot on Chip, that's what it seems to be, especially with you putting it in context so succintly.

... yes!

And Jeff, please realize that I was in no way trying to criticize vimeo. I love vimeo! I was on board just about the minute they announced the "plus" version and paid up. I was just merely clarifying that I was in the right by using that, now that they have announced pro. And -- me too-- I hate it when brides try to skimp! ;)

Hey Tim...no worries here, I was just ranting....I get in the mood to go off and do it now and again, wasn't directed at anyone, so excuse me please if I seemed too intense! It's not a big deal for sure. Everyone has there take on things anyway. In this case any reader would be just as well to skip my post and go directly to Chip's, where he wraps it up nicely for all of us!

I hear you!

Seriously guys...

It's against the law to speed on the highway - be we all do because the risk is low.
People put copyrighted music in their videos, because the risk is low. (although this is changing)
People put commercial used videos on Plus, because, well the risk is low. (I'll bet this changes quickly)

I have both a Plus and Pro account. I have client videos on my Plus account to showcase my work and I have a Pro account for client/commercial work to be embedded in their sites. I did this, not because I am a boy scout, but because I don't want to have to explain to client what they got a DMCA letter or their video got deleted - because I chose to ignore T&Cs.

Now having a Pro account for clients has landed me two new clients, yup two, because I can actually house their videos for a very reasonable cost. This give me an advantage over the guy who just hands over a DVD.

Think about it - 250k plays (not loads) is more then 8,000 plays a month. That's 1,250 plays per $1.
For most clients - that is a cost I can burry in the project cost - for a few other - I just bill them a little extra...

Pro is a Win-Win for everyone...Seriously, what other options for this price are available? I have spent the past 3 years looking - there are none!

Pro is a Win-Win for everyone...Seriously, what other options for this price are available? I have spent the past 3 years looking - there are none!Photo Sharing. Your Photos Look Better Here. | SmugMug (http://www.smugmug.com) is the only alternative that I know of in the same price bracket that aren't like Brightcove | The Leading Online Video Platform (http://www.brightcove.com) aiming their offering at wealthy corporations. They were the first hosting service to offer Full HD video which is why we signed up with them. They started as a site hosting portfolios for commercial photographers & added video to the mix & have always permitted commercial use of their service. They were a little slow compared to Vimeo in updating their player for HTML5 & iPhone/iPad users & their player isn't quite as configurable as Vimeo's but they are a realistic alternative to a Vimeo Pro account.

It is my understanding that SmugMug does allow you to sell your videos commercially, they discourage commercial videos from being hosted from their servers. They even go so far as to define how things can be linked and framed?

I have a SM account - but abandoned it because of this commercial aspect and the fact that I have had a lot of difficulties getting embedded content to play properly, especially on mobile devices.

Seriously guys...

I have both a Plus and Pro account. I have client videos on my Plus account to showcase my work and I have a Pro account for client/commercial work to be embedded in their sites. I did this, not because I am a boy scout, but because I don't want to have to explain to client what they got a DMCA letter or their video got deleted - because I chose to ignore T&Cs.

Now having a Pro account for clients has landed me two new clients, yup two, because I can actually house their videos for a very reasonable cost. This give me an advantage over the guy who just hands over a DVD.

...

Pro is a Win-Win for everyone...Seriously, what other options for this price are available? I have spent the past 3 years looking - there are none!

Works for me too. For my business use, I (or my clients) have zero interest in being a part of a "community" or having Vimeo pages pop up with links to potential competitors. I never understood why in the past Vimeo seemd to discount this type of a platform when others stated that's what they were looking for. I guess they've seen the light.

Even Brightcove which killed their free service and went "Enterprise", has come around from targeting big corporate type clients with deep pockets, to offer a more reasonable buy-in.

Not sure whether this new offering will meet all my expectations, but for this low price, seems like a no-brainer to give it a shot.

It is my understanding that SmugMug does allow you to sell your videos commercially, they discourage commercial videos from being hosted from their servers. They even go so far as to define how things can be linked and framed?It's not that they don't allow you to sell your videos it's just unlike still photographs they have no mechanism for it. They do allow commercial use & you can embed & link however you want using their player or a 3rd party player. We have been using their service to host video for clients' websites for 2-3 years in fact since they started their video hosting service. Until Vimeo announced their Pro service SmugMug were the only company offering a similar affordable service & if they would only get their player as functional as Vimeo's they still have advantages e.g. unlimited storage & bandwidth although videos are limited to 10 minutes in length.