View Full Version : Companion camera for the FS100?


Bruce S. Yarock
July 22nd, 2011, 09:49 AM
I'm curious as to whether anyone else is in the same situation. trying to figure this out.
Here's the history:

1- I had been shooting everything with my Canon XLH1 with a wa lens, and an XHA1 as a second camera.

2- About four years ago, I added a letus extrememe, for obvious reasons.

3- Two tears ago, I got rid of my Nikon photo gear ( I also do event photography) and bought one , then anbother Canon 7d, plus the necessary lenses. I've been using the 7d's whenevr I could, to get the look, and the Canon tape cameras, when I needed extended recording time, on board audio, controlable zoom , and ease for run and gun use.

4- Recently I bought the FS 100 with the kit lens. I also have a nice selection of Nikon Primes plus a tokina 28-7- 2.8. I've used the FS100 at a couple of events, pretty successfully.Having great on board audio and long record time is a pleasure.But he tiny buttons and ergonomics of the camera make it a lot harder to make quick changes when compared to my Canon H1, with all of the control knobs easilly reachable, etc.

5- In order to pay for the FS 100, and because I'm tired of tape, I decided to ssell my two A1's and my H1 with all it's accessories. I sold the two A1's and one dn 60 cf recorder (still have oine). I've been getting my H1 rig ready for ebay, but am uncertain about whether or not I should sell it, or replace it with something else.

The main thing that I'm missing, if I keep only the FS100, is the bility to do speed controlable zooms.This comes into play often at weddings, and some ommercial shoots. On one web commercial shoot, where I was trying to stay with the 7d's for the look, the client kept getting frustrated because I ciuldn't do slow zooms. Luckilly I had also brought one of the canons also, which I had to use.

So the question is, "what do I do"? Should I keep the H1, which will keep going down in value, or should I sell it and buy something else , whoose image quality is closer to the FS100 and is card based? What would that be? I know that a lot of guys are mixing 7d's with ex';s, but the ex is several years old now, and the cards are WAY too expensive. I could bite the bullett and buy a nano flash to use with the H1, thereby getting a better image,and being able to recoird to cf cards, but I'm not sure it would cut well with the fs 100.
I'd really appreciate anyone's feedback or ideas.
Thanks
Bruce Yarock

Doug Jensen
July 22nd, 2011, 09:54 AM
Bruce,

I have not used one myself, so I can't speak from personal experience, but I think the NX5 would make the perfect camera for the situation you describe.

Sony HXR-NX5U NXCAM Professional Camcorder HXR-NX5U B&H Photo

The workflow would be the same, you can share cards, an FMU, batteries, and other accessories between the NX5 and the FS100. They have a lot in common.

Bruce S. Yarock
July 22nd, 2011, 11:12 AM
Doug,
Thanks for the info. I just spoke to Dan Asseff, also on this forum, and he told me that he uses the nx5u as a companion camera at most of his events.His wife uses it for the wide safety shots and for zooming, while he uses the FS100 for the beauty stuff. The zoom has a drawback in that there's no physical controller like on my Canons (two menu options-slow or fast), but I'm sure I can get around that.
Dan says the look is very similar, althgough the cameras have different sensors. Hopefully I can get close to enough for my Canon rig to pay for it. Looks like the camera I need.
Bruce Yarock

Galen Rath
July 22nd, 2011, 12:26 PM
Bruce, it looks like it has a physical switch to choose between variable zoom and fixed zoom, but you are commenting that you have to go into the menu to select the speed, correct?

Bruce S. Yarock
July 22nd, 2011, 12:31 PM
Galen,
I was asking Dan about the zoom options, since he has the camera (I don't). He said that there isn't a zoom speed controller on the camera, and that you have to go into the menu. If it does have a switch that allows variable speed, controlled by the zoom lever, that would be better.
BH sys that you only have 2 choices...slow or fast, and that it's in the menu.
Bruce Yarock

Dan Asseff
July 22nd, 2011, 04:20 PM
Bruce,
It does have variable speed by the amount of pressure you apply to the rocker arm, it does take more practice than the Cannon with the dial to control the speed. Another option is a LANC controller. Asome camera for run and gun work. Our PBS channel loves the image I get out of that camera.

Dan

Galen Rath
July 22nd, 2011, 04:51 PM
Dan, are you using an external recorder for the PBS material?

Dan Asseff
July 22nd, 2011, 05:23 PM
Galen, I shoot for another guy who has the contract with them. I just shoot then give him the cards and he edits the footage. I have tho say It look really good, I watch it over the air and it is tact sharp and clear. I have a shoot this Wednesday and am tempted to use FS100 though. I think that most stations really wouldn't know the different if you didn't tell them.
Dan

Galen Rath
July 26th, 2011, 04:08 PM
So, Bruce, are you going to pull the trigger on the NX5U?

John Vincent
July 27th, 2011, 09:41 AM
My only issue with regard to the suggestion about the NX5U would be cost - it's only a grand less the FS100 itself. True, it has a built in lens, saving you some money, but I'd think the only reason to use this camera is to makes sure you'd have a shot in focus (which the 1/3" chip set should make it easier to do, assuming decent light).

What about using the NEX-5 as an el cheapo solution? It has a similarly sized chip set, will take the E mount lens mount (and I'm guessing the adapters as well), 1080i AVCHD HD video, and can do neato things like taking panorama stills (as well as taking normal stills).

It's also tiny, meaning you could get into places the FS100 couldn't. Perhaps not ideal, although it would seem to be a good "crash cam" if you needed one. For those on a budget, this cam seems like a good bet, if only b/c of its cost - $600 w/kit lens:

Amazon.com: Sony Alpha NEX NEX5A/B Digital Camera with Interchangeable Lens (Black): Camera & Photo

A review:
Sony NEX 5 Review (http://www.digital-photography-school.com/sony-nex-5-review-2)

Bruce S. Yarock
July 27th, 2011, 09:45 AM
Galen,
I'm planning to get the camera, but first have to sell the rest of my Canon gear (H1, wa lens, etc.) which is now on ebay.
Bruce Yarock

Bruce S. Yarock
July 27th, 2011, 09:47 AM
John
Thanks for yhe info. I still have my 2 7d's with good lenses (although I might sell one body).
I
' leaning towards the other once (nx5u) once I sell the rest of my Canon gear.
Bruce Yarock

John Vincent
July 27th, 2011, 02:07 PM
Bruce, would you have bought the Birger adapter if it were out? Or some other reason you want to get away from the Canons?

You might be interested in a canon matching scene file (among others) that Ablescene posted yesterday:
FS100 Scene Files from AbelCine | CineTechnica (http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/07/25/fs100-scene-files-from-abelcine/)

Bruce S. Yarock
July 27th, 2011, 02:19 PM
John,
I would have sprung for the Bitger, but it's still vaporware. I'm keeping one of my 7d's and the good Canon lenses (17-55 2.8, 70-200-2.8, 50mm 1.4, 18-135 kit lens, and the fantastic Tokina 11-6, which I wish I could use on the fs100). In the meantime, I already had a bunch of Nikon primes from when I used a Letus extreme, so I bought the fotodiox adapter. As I said elswhere, I'm relly happy that I bought the Sony 18-200 kit lens, because it looks good, and has a fairly usable auto focus when needed.

What I'm selling is the last of my Caonon hdv tape cams. I sold the 2 A1's, and still need to sell the H1 and wide angle lens ( plus monochrome viewfinder and century hd fisheye). As soon as I finish selling at least the camera and lens, I'll get the 5u. That way I can still do a 3 camera shoot (Canon hv 30 for extra), have the FS100 for the beauty stuff and the 5u for more run and gun situations.
I'm definately keeping my Canon lenses because, I'm keeping one 7d and also occasionally get an event photo job.

Jugling...juggling...jugling
Bruce Yarock
P.S,. Thanks to Doug and Dan for reccomending the other camera. Hopefully I'll see Dan tomorrow in Port Orange and check out the camera.
Bruce Yarock

Jon Braeley
July 29th, 2011, 07:02 AM
I will be using my GH2 as a second cam.

I have owned or used most all of the Canon's in the last two years ... the GH2 blows them away. It's my stealth doco camera. I think it will work well with the FS-100 even though the sensors are a world apart unlike the 7D.

John Vincent
August 4th, 2011, 09:48 PM
This new batch of Sony DSLRs might also be a good bet (although I think they all would need the alpha mount adapter):
sonyalpharumors | Home (http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/)

Bill Bruner
August 5th, 2011, 05:31 AM
...The main thing that I'm missing...is the [a]bility to do speed controlable zooms.

John and Jon - not to speak for Bruce, but he was pretty clear. He needs a speed controllable power zoom. Sadly, Sony A-mount DSLRs, E-mount NEXs, and Panasonic GH2s are limited to still-camera manual zooms.

I *wish* there was a speed controllable power zoom for my GH2 - but power zooms (and headphone jacks) are two big reasons why camcorders still make sense for certain jobs.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

David J. Buchanan
August 11th, 2011, 07:44 PM
Do you guys think a T2i would be a good fit with the FS100? Or should I sell mine and get a NEX5 dSLR?

Monty Wentzel
August 31st, 2011, 06:33 PM
I know this goes beyond the normal zoom on a lens, but I do zooms in FCP all the time. I don't do real long zooms, just slow limited moody ones for effect, nothing like you may need in a wedding etc...

Other than that I never do zooms. I don't do the type of work that calls for zooms.

Mark Kenfield
August 31st, 2011, 10:58 PM
I'm quite intrigued by the possibility of using the upcoming NEX-7 as a backup/b-cam for the FS-100, your lenses would be the same, as would image characteristics (and possibly quality?). As a small, light-weight b-cam for close-ups/coverage to intercut with a master from the FS-100, I'd think it might make a pretty solid match.

John Vincent
September 1st, 2011, 07:22 AM
Maybe the VG20?

Shawn Lam
September 8th, 2011, 09:35 PM
I have not used one myself, so I can't speak from personal experience, but I think the NX5 would make the perfect camera for the situation you describe.
.

I just did a 2 camera live switch in HD using the BlackMagic Design ATEM 1 M/E with both the FS100 and NX5U and can tell you that they don't match nicely.

The problem is that the NX5U is too noisy next to the clean image from the FS100. We even pushed the FS100 to 15db and the NX5U to -6db for one test and the FS100 still has less noise.

At the end of the shoot I called my Sony dealer and bought a 2nd FS100 - I picked it up on the way home.

Bruce S. Yarock
September 24th, 2011, 04:37 AM
I got a last minute 2 camera concert shoot this Sunday, and it helped make my decision...I bought the nx5 and it will be here this am. That gives me a day to teach my girlfriend how to use it( she's used o my former Canon xha1).
Bruce Yarock

Bruce S. Yarock
September 27th, 2011, 05:31 PM
We used the NX 5 for the wide safety shot, and I'm very happy with the way it looks. Used the same picture profile and Kelvin temp on the NX5 and the FS100, and the look is really close. We are jsut capturing , and will post once I've seen the ootage cut together.
I used the fs100 for tighter shots. Unfortunately, we had to shoot both cameras from the up top control room area.
Bruce Yarock

Bill Bruner
September 27th, 2011, 06:15 PM
Mike Kobal just did an interesting comparison (http://www.mikekobal.com/blog/?p=2187) of the NEX-5N(!) and the FS-100 on his blog.

Sony Nex 5N compared vs Sony FS100, which one is better, ungraded, graded 1080/60i - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XqoZlxfP_g)

Don't know why he used interlaced and not progressive for the side-by-sides, though.

Bottom line seems to be that the 5N is a capable little B-cam for the FS.

Anthony Mozora
September 28th, 2011, 11:49 PM
NX5 is the best companion for the FS100

I have that camera and they are the perfect match together.

the second camera that i have for a combination with FS100 and the NX5 is the cheaper XF100 by CANON

Noah Yuan-Vogel
October 10th, 2011, 09:17 AM
+1 for GH2 as b-cam for FS100.

There are a number of reasons the GH2 is probably the best camera to go along with an FS100

Sony NEX still cameras might make sense but like Canon DSLRs they all have significant aliasing and lower resolving power when used for video.

GH2
+Has great looking, natural gamma and color, better than anything you can get out of any Canon or SonyNEX still camera from what I've seen
+Very high resolving power and low aliasing, sometimes it seems to produce even higher resolution video than my FS100, and far surpasses all other still camera video options in these regards
+Short FFD like FS100 (with the right adapter you can share pretty much all your lenses if you use canon/nikon/PL/etc on you, other NEX cameras also have this benefit)
+HDMI output without without losing onboard LCD, manual mic level, sound level meters and live histogram, articulating LCD, ETC mode adds lens flexibility
+Shoots same AVCHD format as FS100 (encoders may differ, but file structure and decoder is the same as is the media)
+relatively inexpensive, I preordered mine for $680 back 10 months ago

The only downside to the GH2 is the slightly different imager size and lower noise performance at higher ISOs, but there is no camera at any price that quite keeps up with the FS100 for low light shooting, so that will be an issue to some extent with any b-camera

The next option might be an NEX-5N if you can handle soft images and aliasing.