I just worked with 2 well established photographers this past weekend. One of them told me that for her previous' day wedding, there were 4 videographers with her in the bedroom for the bride's preparation. Because the room was small, they were constantly bumping into her and she grew very irritated with them. These were young guys, all equipped with 5Ds. What she couldn't understand was why they needed 4 people shooting over her shoulder for basically the same shot. Of course it would have been impossible to position any of them across the small room since it was tiny, but the scene really affected her concentration and ability to work efficiently. During the ceremony, it got worse. The same videographers were constantly scrambling around with sliders, glidecams, and who-knows-whats. In their eagerness of not wanting to miss anything, they kept repositioning themselves, making working with them extremely frustrating. For the reception, they played back an SDE, and she was disappointed at how mediocre their work was. To make a long story short, she blacklisted that company and vowed to not refer them or even accept a job with them again.

For yesterday's wedding, the photographer also complained of how many videographers are showing up at recent shoots, and how they constantly get in his way. He now has a clause in his contract that states "no videography is allowed" during the wedding prep when he's shooting! If the videographer wants to shoot, we will have to schedule our own separate time with the bride.

His biggest complaint was the lack of cooperation he's been getting with the new videographer who seems to be too focused on trying to get their shot without regard to what's happening around him/her. Multiply that by 4 or 5 or 6 people, and you get a sense of how frustrating it can be. Sadly, he too has a growing list of video companies he won't be referring in the future.

Just letting you know what's going around....

That was a bit of an overkill, 4 videographers for a Bride shoot!!! I freelanced for another studio 2 weeks ago, they sent an assistant with a DSLR to shoot videos with me. Basically there were 2 of us shooting the bride prep and already I feel the room being a bit too crowded,the photog has an assitant as well. I sent him off very nicley and asked him to shoot B-rolls at the church, mic the groom, do a time lapse or whatever he thinks he need to kill time and let me do the Bride prep.

Thanks for sharing.

Agreed, 4 people shooting the bride prep is absolutely ridiculous. Not only is it unnecessary, but it sounds like a disaster to edit. I don't want hours of mediocre footage of the bride getting her dress on. I want a few minutes of great footage.

I will say, however, I have been at weddings with three photographers doing the same thing. I still wake up with flash backs to the sound of three cameras firing so frequently that the sound of the shutters mix together and sound like a machine gun.

Unless it's absolutely necessary, I very much prefer to work alone. Part of the reason is the unobtrusive nature I wish to uphold. I know the benefits of multiple angles, but a good videographer would be able to capture this all by himself in situations like this.

Just another thing to differentiate your business. Stress that you use two videographers with unobtrusive techniques. I don't think our brides notice us most of the time and we are always working around the main photographer.

It also stresses the importance of networking with local photographers so you build trust and get referrals from people who enjoy working with you!

I prefer solo most of the time, with my wife covering something else, usually stills. I cannot imagine trying to work with 4 "videographers" (if you call guys who obviously have to shoot 4 DSLRs in hopes of getting "something" in focus and usable, "videographers", to me that's a stretch). I'm pretty sure if the wedding is big enough to justify 4, there are other places they should be shooting...

As has been said, a good videographer can get the needed shots with one camera, and worst case can have a second camera on a small tripod or mount to provide "cover" or additional angles if really needed, no operator required. While I like to shoot 4 cameras for the ceremony, I don't need ops beyond myself.

It's really sad to hear that there are people who obviously are "new" ruining the reputation of the industry just because they heard about this hot new "shoot video with your DSLR" trend. No excuse for it really - the best video and photographers are ONLY "visible" during dedicated "session" times, the rest of the time they should be nearly invisible, IMO...

This is not Larry, Moe and Curlys photo and video shoot, it's someones' once in a lifetime day... don't mess it up, just capture it beautifully and discretely!

Gee four videographers... what would they be charging the bride for the DVD??? It would not be worth doing here as by the time you paid four operators there be no profit in it.

I prefer to work alone and get my shots before the arrival of the photographer, as for them having a clause in their contract forbidding any filming by the videographer, I dont think that would work here as we dont have those sorts of issues...yet....

It's really sad to hear that there are people who obviously are "new" ruining the reputation of the industry just because they heard about this hot new "shoot video with your DSLR" trend.

From what I've heard, these new companies are undercutting current videographer pricing, driving the market pricing downwards. The bad thing (for us) is that these new guys are very tech savvy, have lots of friends on facebook, and their work is viewed as "really cool" and "very fresh" because it was produced by their peers.

As a business, however, it's very difficult to undercharge a client, then split the proceeds with 4 or 5 shooters and editors. I know a couple of young people that started with guns blazing, then quickly faded when they realized how much talent and effort was required to put together a consistent, high quality product. They also had the reputation of not returning phone calls after becoming popular. Sadly for us, however, the damage was already done when they undercharged their clients and set a new baseline for wedding video producton.

We always shoot the prep single camera, more is unnecessary.

I don't think we should be surprised about the effect of cheap DSLRs on both the market and the way of working - it was bound to happen.

One camera morning prep before the photo guy, then out of his way, one cam for arrivals, one doing slides and such in church, two covering the ceremony, two at reception away from each other, two for speeches and two for the dance, Been undercut this week twice by new video guys got their jobs after facebook contacts. their film unknown, no demos just cheaper than me.

I too only use one camera for prep and it's great!!

Did a wedding three weeks ago where the photog came to me and said 'my contract forbids the video guy to take photos' ...She was happy that the only still shots I took were for the DVD cover...aparently her last wedding found 4 videographers all with DSLR's and during the photoshoot they basically shot hundreds of frames of her poses of the couple then sold them the prints at discount rates....I also wonder what they made from the wedding having to pay 4 shooters.

We actually had a group of 4 that were advertising free wedding shoots (the bride had to pay to hire 4 cameras) ...they died a natural death very quickly!!!!


Chris

I'm solo most of the time as well, I really prefer to have a second cameraman along for the ceremony, reception entrance, first dance and events like toasts, cake cutting, etc. Besides that I find it unnecessary. In response to the photographers though, I can't remember the last time I shot a bridal prep and there weren't two photographers in the room. I shot a wedding last weekend where there were two photographers and an assistant following them around with a light on a boom pole and a battery pack on his shoulder, he was in all my shots of the processional, stood 3 feet away from the bride during the ceremony so all I could do was a tight shot and followed them around during the first dance, it was so irritating!

I just worked with 2 well established photographers this past weekend. One of them told me that for her previous' day wedding, there were 4 videographers with her in the bedroom for the bride's preparation. Because the room was small, they were constantly bumping into her and she grew very irritated with them. These were young guys, all equipped with 5Ds. What she couldn't understand was why they needed 4 people shooting over her shoulder for basically the same shot. Of course it would have been impossible to position any of them across the small room since it was tiny, but the scene really affected her concentration and ability to work efficiently. During the ceremony, it got worse. The same videographers were constantly scrambling around with sliders, glidecams, and who-knows-whats. In their eagerness of not wanting to miss anything, they kept repositioning themselves, making working with them extremely frustrating. For the reception, they played back an SDE, and she was disappointed at how mediocre their work was. To make a long story short, she blacklisted that company and vowed to not refer them or even accept a job with them again.

For yesterday's wedding, the photographer also complained of how many videographers are showing up at recent shoots, and how they constantly get in his way. He now has a clause in his contract that states "no videography is allowed" during the wedding prep when he's shooting! If the videographer wants to shoot, we will have to schedule our own separate time with the bride.

His biggest complaint was the lack of cooperation he's been getting with the new videographer who seems to be too focused on trying to get their shot without regard to what's happening around him/her. Multiply that by 4 or 5 or 6 people, and you get a sense of how frustrating it can be. Sadly, he too has a growing list of video companies he won't be referring in the future.

Just letting you know what's going around....

You could substitute the word "videographer" and insert "photographer" thoughout this post and it would totally reflect what I see every weekend as a videographer.

I shoot with a 2nd person, and have been wanting to add a 3rd, but neither is ever in the same location.
I just cant figure out why photography teams do that? I'm with the bride, my other shooter is with the groom, and when I add my 3rd, their sole mission is to shoot cool details with the slider and establishing shots of things. as far as one camera goes, still struggling with that one, 7D and lenses, or just the EX1, hahahaha.

Actually some famous video companies are shooting in team of 3-4 currently from what i know. However they do not squeeze everyone in there. Its like one doing the prep for the bride, one for the sisters prep (in our country they have the chinese gate crash prep). In the church it would be 2-3 guys shooting.

We usually cover off with the photographer at the beginning to ensure we have a common understanding what to expect of each other.

We shot a large Asian wedding yesterday (700 guests) & there were three photographers none of whom apparently had a lens longer than a 24-70mm which meant they were up close & personal with the bride & groom all the time. The three of them were working together & they were generally apologetic about getting in front of our cameras but as they were working so close to the couple much of our footage includes at least one of these photographers. However we probably had a better view of the bride & groom than most of the guests as we were using a crane & thus at least one of our cameras was shooting over the heads of the photographers. There were two of us shooting video & while at times were both in the same place this was so that we had footage of crucial portions of the action from different angles avoiding the official photographers & the scrum of guests with cameras.

Photographers complain too much, sure four people seems like an overkill but if thats the contract the bride signed than so be it. I've worked with four photographers at a wedding before and it was tough. What did I do? I did the best that I could having to establish myself as an important aspect of the wedding as well. Instead of complaining and moaning I just worked harder and tougher, not think of ways to baby out with a contract because im too special to work with that many other people. This is the same reason we started offering photography services, too many whining photographers that think they are gods......

Imagine 4 videographers, and 4 photographers at the wedding. Everyone is shooting 5ds, so in the eyes of the guests, everyone looks like photographers. 8 photographers constantly scrambling, trying their best to get their shots. At some point, when too many people are trying to get the same shot, production value will go down instead of up. At what point do we say enough is enough??

At what point do we say enough is enough??

I think Alexandru said it best . . . the B&G hired them all, signed the contracts and paid money for everyone to be there. It's up to us to be creative and resourceful -- we're supposed to be professionals who solve problems, not complain about them.

I think Alexandru said it best . . . the B&G hired them all, signed the contracts and paid money for everyone to be there. It's up to us to be creative and resourceful -- we're supposed to be professionals who solve problems, not complain about them.

I'm not sure if the bride/groom always know how many photographers/videographers are going to be present. If the b/g knew there would be 7 or 8, I don't think she would sign that contract. I just worked with a wedding planner that showed up with 5 crew members. The bride wasn't very happy. 3 photogs, 1 video and 5 wedding planners in her house.

Cannot imagine shooting a bridal prep with more than 1 videographer, it's bad enough scrambling around the rushing and madness between you and the photographer, let alone 3 other videographers. Sounds like a bad case of incompetence, all relying on each other 'just in case'.

I just worked with a wedding planner that showed up with 5 crew members. The bride wasn't very happy. 3 photogs, 1 video and 5 wedding planners in her house.

Someday soon, the vendor list that the bride and groom will have to feed will exceed the wedding guest list. lol

The only time I have ever wanted more than 2 videographers is at the ceremony. Bride and groom prep are perfect with 1 at each place. Having 2 videogs at the photo session makes it a breeze, although I can easily shoot it alone. And I've never thought I had to have a third at a reception. What do you shoot?! Unless you're producing an SDE then I think 3 is pretty good, one mostly just to capture and edit though.

Whatever floats your boat and gets you the jobs I guess but personally 2 is my magic number.

David, there's an easy answer, Cam 1 tight on the speaker, Cam 2 wide on the top or speakers' table, Cam 3 reverse angle guests reaction shots. I'm not asking for a poll but which shot can you afford not to have? Hell, even the local 6pm news uses three cameras.

talking about speeches alone I have 1 camera on speaker, 1 camera on B&G, if the speech refers to a guest then B&G angle gets the guest. I can set up an unmanned camera on B&G if I want as well, so there really is no need for me to have 3 operators.

David, we're not being very scientific in our descriptions but at the speeches, assuming your camera on the B&G is facing them, then in most cases the guests will be facing them and all you'll get as a reaction shot is their backs.

I'll be specific about my general placements, Cams1&2 co-located opposite top table, Cam 3 to one side of it. If the economics could justify it I'd have a 4th camera at the other end. Client's reaction to the reaction shots indicate they're very much appreciated and the operator needs to be listening to the speech so as to be ready for the reaction as well as watching for the next shot to frame to ready for the next reaction.

Whilst Cams 1& 2 are co-located, the wide will cover any off-camera activity as well.

As far as the ceremony is concerned, if you don't have three cameras then you can't have clear, full-on pictures of the three people involved, the bride, the groom and the celebrant. Who's the least important and can be satisfied with a rear quarter or back shot? Do none of your grooms ever have a tear in their eye at the vows?

IMHO, this whole business about the number of video cameramen isn't a matter of numbers but about the degree to which they impose on the event. Go back again to the Royal Wedding and tell us how many cameras you spotted?

Yeah, 4 videographers at bride prep is overkill. Although the photog decision on banning videography at prep is such an over-reacting act too.

Sure there are bad vendors, but you shouldnt go to the extent of telling the bride of what to and what not to do on her wedding day. You can give her warning and take the job, take the job and risk co-working with a bad vendor, or simply refuse to take the job altogether.

In the end it's the client's call.

Phillip, I shoot with several unmanned cameras so I think that is why I dont see much added benefit to having an extra operator, the shots are all gotten by 2 operators and all my stationary cameras.

Clearly we have different ways of shooting that work for us, but here's a question for you. What does your third operator do during the preps? is s/he only scheduled to show up at the church while the other two shoot preps? so the work day is different for the third shooter?

What kind of video does that yield when bride is overwhelmed by that many cameras?

snipped What does your third operator do during the preps? is s/he only scheduled to show up at the church while the other two shoot preps? so the work day is different for the third shooter?

David, we shoot the prep time with one camera but since we use the prep shoot to also do one-to-one interviews with the bride and groom, I am there also. My wife is the camera op and in just one case when a bride didn't want any men present, she did the whole job herself.

We generally drop off the main gear and the third cameraman at the church before going on to the preps. He starts and often finishes the setup including the static mics. That means we're ahead of the game and ready for any eventuality whilst the guests are arriving. If the distance from the preps affects the schedules then he also starts the guests arriving coverage.

We work as a team but in a pattern which usually means that on arrival at the reception venue for example Cam 3 does the venue establishment shots, Cam 2 the guests and bridal party arriving whilst Cam 1 is setting up for the interviews, but these are patterns only and flexible to suit the occasion.

An observation from the customer angle - at her wedding recently my daughter didn't want any photographer there during the prep, but was very happy with the two male videographers present who were completely unobtrusive.

Colin, it's refreshing to hear that.

In my experience girls either ban all outsiders, preferring to get prepared in what I believe is the traditional way with their mothers and their chief bridesmaid, or they're happy to have all and sundry present, what might be called the modern way. The important learning for all suppliers is to ask in advance.

I just worked and talked with a very well known photographer last night, he works with a total crew of 2. Last week, he worked with the video crew that showed up with 5 people with 5ds! In addition to steadicams and sliders, they had a big jib arm. The photographer nearly got smacked in the face when he turned around quickly and a 5d was floating there at eye level. He said he spent the entire 10 hours ducking, dodging, and jumping over video guys. Shooting weddings here is quickly becoming a fight on the battlefield...lol

And shortly thereafter "video" will be banned from many venues because of complete and total BOZOS who show up thinking a wedding is some sort of hollywood set... or because they need to have 5 SLR's to "cover" well enough to get usable footage because they aren't competent with their gear...

The rest of us will HAVE to shoot DSLR's so we can go in "stealth" pretending to be photogrphers!

If I'd been the photog, I'd have "accidently" bumped whatever rig was sticking in my face, just to make a point about professional courtesy! Yeesh!