I'm trying to learn and get into the video business and my wife figures that with all the money i've spent on equipment I may as well film her sisters wedding. They weren't going to have a video made so the bride is real excited about this and it's turned into our cheep gift to them.

My plan is to have my big camera set up on the tripod in the back of the Church focused on the stage and the ceremony. I have another camera I'm renting for the day that I'm going to have up front first getting the people coming down the isle and then recording b-roll of the audience and some different angles of the bride and groom.

The sound booth for the Church is in the back and my goal is, since the event will be Mic'd with Wireless LAv mics that I would just tap into the sound board with a cable to my camera in the back and record all the audio directly from the house system. Does this work as well as I have it pictured in my mind? is there anything I should worry about with regards to audio?

Am I on the right track with planning this all out? I'm really not trying to get all artsy with this. I'd like to get the ceremony, toasts, cake cutting, and maybe a few other things. Honestly I am not interested in being a Wedding videographer I enjoy filming corporate events, Sailing, and training videos.

Hi Paul

I set up completely opposite to you!! My main camera is up front so I can concentrate on the couple and officiant and then my 2nd cam is roving to get the procession and cutaways. I guess each to their own???

I got tired of people getting in the way of the main camera when it was further back!!

I use my own mics always as board feeds are tricky...it's great if the feed works well and you have a pro on the desk but if it's a mess then remember you get no audio!! I would still stick a DVR and lav mic on the groom for backup!!

Chris

Bummer.... I had thought to set up in the back because I have plenty of Zoom and I wanted to be by the sound board. I hope the sound guy is going to be at the rehearsal. I think a test run is in order. I had really hoped to use house sound because I don't have any audio equipment yet. What DVR do you use and suggest?

Whatever you decide about your camera placement, keep in mind that people will be there and in the way at times. Another key thing to plan for is that people stand up during the bridal procession. This will block many camera angles. It's also common to have a photographer 'moon walking' in front of the couple as they walk down the isle during the recessional. (moon walking is when the photographer stands directly in front of the couple and walks backwards as they walk down the aisle. What the photographer is really doing is putting on a show that is supposed to impress; everyone with his prowess). None of these shot killers are obvious when you stand in an empty church planning everything. You should plan with those things in mind though.

Hi Paul

Back cams are fine if they are on a bacony and you can get a clear shot of the proceedings, as Jim says, with people standing too... Sometimes, of course, the front row is just too close to the couple in some Churches too!! If you do have a cam up front also realise that they will do readings from another position so if you use your front cam for that make sure that it also has a clear shot of the lectern!!! Of couse if you take a sound feed (I personally wouldn't as more than often the sound guy is just someone who put up their hand to do the job and not an expert!)

Best zooms seem to be the Zooms but they are pricey too!! Maybe hire a radio mic for the day and plug that into your main camera as a feed backup..otherwise you usually need to mic at least the groom, officiant and the readings lectern!!!

Doing a wedding as a one off job and never again is a tough call unless you want to spend un-necessary money!!

Chris

Paul, I wouldn't tap audio from sound booth straight to the camera.. If I were you, I'll plug it into a dedicated audio recorder and let the camera record audio via onboard mic. This way you have more audio sources to work with.

Paul,
I must agree... taking a line out from the church's amp is great if it all works... and sometimes for whatever reason it just doesn't and you wont have the time to sort it out....At venues I must admit that I go down that path but I know the venue and I know the mixer and I have a Plan B as I monitor the audio.

I would stick with the advice already given... stick with a lave mike and/or a DVR on the groom... and if you can... always always always have a PLAN B

My shooting style is almost identical to that already mentioned by others and that is the reversal of what you were going to do... I also cant stress enough that people stand up and crowd the bride and groom and you have to be there to film thru it so you must be able to move around people as they won't move around you.

Good luck

Ok, try 2 for my plan.

Audio: A MP3 recorder taping the house audio into a WAV file format. A wireless Lav mic tapped into my camera. my b-roll camera recording audio from the onboard mic. And a small (college type) DVR on the reading/music lectern just in case.

Is that a better idea?

Paul, I think you have much to learn and many mistakes to make and in my view it's a pity you're going to make some on your sister-in-law's wedding isn't a great start. I'd be prepared to buy her a small wedding gift of the ordinary kind.

Assuming that you have limited time to practice, my honest opinion would be to scan through the work of some of the people here, decide what you think works and what doesn't and just try and record a simple, clean image with reasonable audio, nothing tricksy or as you say artsy.

Sadly your wife's coming at this from the wrong starting point, owning a lot of gear isn't the place to start into any video business and certainly not weddings. It probably sounds perverse but in my view the best place would be a single camera with a single microphone, then you could concentrate on what really matters, the programme. Just my 2c.

I'll make a TON of mistakes. that's no big deal. I prefaced this by saying I'm learning. Honestly, I'd much rather screw up my sister-in-law's wedding video then someone who's paying me. Like I said, she wasn't going to have a videographer so anything I can do is a benefit. If I screw it up all together, I'll buy them something and no one is out anything. I'll only have $50 wrapped up in this if i end up renting the 2nd camera. I think the experience I'll gain is worth $50. The lav is my churches extra/back-up so it's costing me nothing to borrow. The wav recorder is my buddies from his band so it's costing me nothing. I have a camera and tripod. I am interested in getting a DVR. I'm doing some corporate video's and it would be nice to have as a back-up audio source for events and would be great to have as a way to capture voice-over.

I appreciate all the advice. Thanks!

Paul, I understand everything you're saying.

My two points are first simply not to learn on anyone's wedding but learn your craft on things which really don't matter and keep the gear simple. Second it still sounds to me as though you're going to be worrying more about using borrowed gear and "tapping" into mixing desks than making the programme. I'm refraining from mentioning things like impedance matching, AGC, mains hum ....

Good luck.

Keeping things as simple as possible is most definately the way to go...I shoot weddings with two cameras and trust me, you need to be very switched on and well practiced too!!!

A single cam is probably a very sensible idea!!! My very first digital wedding was a relative and I used a little Panasonic GS500 and a radio mic on the groom...nothing else!! As Philip says, concentrate on the couple and get some good direct audio and you will end up with something your sister will love!!!

Complicated setups need plenty of attention...the KISS principle will definately be the way to go..rent a radio mic rather than a second camera!!

Chris

I'm glad you're not mentioning those things cause... I think you know, I'd have no idea what you are talking about. I've been filming everything I can trying to gain the experience. Lacrosse games, on the water sailing footage, lectures, and outdoor trainings. I'll be doing a music concert this next Wednesday. My goal in this wedding, is to stay out of the photographers way, get some good clean footage, and try to somehow record quality audio. Audio has always been the question mark with my videos.

I can appreciate your wanting me to keep it simple. Maybe it would be best to just stick with my camera and mic. I'll still record the house audio but that doesn't take any effort to have the sound guy patch in the wav recorder. The guy who owns it is coming to the wedding anyway. That way, if it works, i have it. If not, i still have the audio off my camera.

My wife is in the wedding so I'll be at the rehearsal and all... I'll spend the time playing with camera placements and all and see what the church is like and where to set up.

Whatever you decide about your camera placement, keep in mind that people will be there and in the way at times. Another key thing to plan for is that people stand up during the bridal procession. This will block many camera angles. It's also common to have a photographer 'moon walking' in front of the couple as they walk down the isle during the recessional. (moon walking is when the photographer stands directly in front of the couple and walks backwards as they walk down the aisle. What the photographer is really doing is putting on a show that is supposed to impress; everyone with his prowess). None of these shot killers are obvious when you stand in an empty church planning everything. You should plan with those things in mind though.

The Moon Walk:

(snipped) ....get some good clean footage, and try to somehow record quality audio. Audio has always been the question mark with my videos.



Paul, audio has always been the poor relation in television and you get full marks in my book for recognising its importance. I can remember being told that by an ex-radio man at the BBC in 1953 and it's been the same ever since.

Of course, there's a good reason for it; when TV first came along radio mics and equipment were designed for ease and quality of production. Suddenly they have to consider what it looks like and the first studio solution was the boom mic.

Things have improved considerably and we now have miniature, radio mics etc etc, but there's always been a lingering idea that the picture is more important than the sound.

Happily today we're moving away from these antiquated ideas but the debate as to whether the means of production should be seen or unseen will last for much longer.

Out of all my recorded audio wedding, my fave usually comes from the lav mic on the groom/officiant. The audio from mixer, onboard camera, etc are usually for my backup only. During reception, I stuck my lav mic on the podium mic.

Although I dont use wireless system and have used audio recorder to remove all the worry of signal interference, etc. Once your audio is set, you can concentrate on the camera throughout the procession.

Out of all my recorded audio wedding, my fave usually comes from the lav mic on the groom/officiant. The audio from mixer, onboard camera, etc are usually for my backup only. During reception, I stuck my lav mic on the podium mic.

Although I dont use wireless system and have used audio recorder to remove all the worry of signal interference, etc. Once your audio is set, you can concentrate on the camera throughout the procession.

I've found myself having the same experience. I will normally have 5-6 audio sources to work with, but end up trashing all but the groom's mic (which I end up using for the vast majority of the ceremony) and the podium/speaker mic (for readings, sermon, etc.). I keep questioning whether it's all necessary, but, you know . . . I'm paranoid.

Also, in my mind, the audio recorders are far superior to any wireless systems. They've vastly increased my audio quality -- and stress level -- at the shoots. Again, I can concentrate on being creative, and not on whether the wireless mic is functioning clearly and properly.

Also, in my mind, the audio recorders are far superior to any wireless systems. They've vastly increased my audio quality -- and stress level -- at the shoots. Again, I can concentrate on being creative, and not on whether the wireless mic is functioning clearly and properly.

That is, if you remember to hit "record" before the groom pockets it! I've once had this experience, I forgot to hit record on the audio recorder on the groom while my backup audio recorder ran out of battery mid way through ceremony. And because you have no way of monitoring it, I only realized this when they finished the vow!!

Luckily, the audio on my RODE is usable. The B&G never complained about the audio. Phew.

That is, if you remember to hit "record" before the groom pockets it!

Haha, true! I'm very paranoid about that -- even with the hold button on and secured with tape -- and I always end up checking that it's recording a couple times. Then when I get the recorder back from him after the ceremony, I always feel a wave of relief when I see it's been recording.

I'm much more confident today... I went over to the venue last night to help decorate (and get a feel for the way thing will work. They don't have a balcony but they do have a Very large sound booth that is elevated by 3 steps and surrounded by a half wall a the back left side of the auditorium. I set my camera up there with the tripod fully extended and no matter where my tall friend stood I still had a view of the entire stage as well as most the aisle. This is going to be my main camera and if all else fails

I did (contrary to advice) get that second camera after talking to my sister-in-law. the whole first row on both sides of the auditorium is empty. The plan is to get a low angle shot from the aisle of them all walking in and once the bride passes move to the outside of the first row and get a good angle on her face and the reading lecture.

I'm really happy. The room is nice and bright, the sound guy is more then a volunteer, I have some redundancy between the 2 cameras and 3 sources of audio...

I'm feeling much more confident now about the whole event.

Thanks for all the help! I hope I grasped on to the advice you all were giving.

I just (against all advice I've heard here on this forum... but it's my sister-in-law so who cares) played the opening 13 minutes of their video for them tonight in a rough form. I just wanted to show her how i was cutting back and forth between the 2 cameras and make sure she liked that instead of just focusing on her as she came in. They both LOVED it!!! I told her how self conscious I am especially after seeing a bunch of the videos on here including the one shot with the Red Epics. I showed her that video and all she could say was... "that's nice, a bit over done, It's not us. What you have is our wedding and it looks great."

I know this wasn't a paying gig, and it was the best possible client for my first try... but this makes me very happy that they are content with what I am able to produce.

I'm going to post a few clips here for critique in the near future. I would appreciate some feedback.

Congratulations Paul! It always feels great when a client (paying or non-paying) really digs your work.

I showed her that video and all she could say was... "that's nice, a bit over done, It's not us. What you have is our wedding and it looks great."

That's exactly my view of all the "cinematic," slider-laden, showy wedding videos out there. Way overdone and over-stylized for my taste (for a wedding, anyhow). I know there's a high-end market out there somewhere for this kind of video (what some people like to mislabel a "film"), but in the markets I've been working in, people want a nice-looking documentary of their day -- not what looks like a Hollywood movie trailer.

For church weddings:

Groom's lapel mic + wav recorder on lectern takes care of the most important stuff most of the time.

Wav recorder set up near instrumentalists at outdoor weddings (like harpist way off to the side) is a must if you want to hear that music well on the video.

Otherwise, be creative and improvise. For those short outdoor weddings that have one single reader who reads from a random spot and in windy conditions, tap them on the shoulder during dinner and have them re-re-record into your wav recording and sync by using cutaways. (They'll read close enough to how they did the first time, that it's fairly easy to sync.).

One cool/creative thing that can be done in certain church situations: while you're setting up your b-cam in the balcony, take a look at the small organ speaker/monitors to see if they're playing the church's main audio. Putting a wav recorder right in front of one of them can get you a very clean sound for times when the priest is in no-man's land with his robe mic (and otherwise very echo-y).

One cool/creative thing that can be done in certain church situations: while you're setting up your b-cam in the balcony, take a look at the small organ speaker/monitors to see if they're playing the church's main audio. Putting a wav recorder right in front of one of them can get you a very clean sound for times when the priest is in no-man's land with his robe mic (and otherwise very echo-y).

I've done something similar at a lot of weddings. I use a Rode Videomic, which goes out stereo miniplug into my MP3 recorder. Then I attach both to a boom mic stand and point the mic directly at the speaker. Most of the time, the speakers are up off the floor, and there's nowhere to set the recorder by itself.

Very cool, Corey.

May I ask: which speaker do you usually end up targeting?
Are you able to do this fairly discreetly? (I'm trying to picture where they all usually are in most churches).

May I ask: which speaker do you usually end up targeting?
Are you able to do this fairly discreetly? (I'm trying to picture where they all usually are in most churches).

I usually look for the most out-of-the-way speaker, so that it's less likely my setup is seen. And it really depends on the church -- some of them may only have one main speaker, and if it's inaccessible or too prominent, then I'll usually put lav mics on both the officiant and the groom, or on the lecturn and the groom.

Another alternative would be to actually gaff tape the recorder to the speaker. It's usually not noticeable, and comes out remarkably well in my experience.

Haha, true! I'm very paranoid about that -- even with the hold button on and secured with tape -- and I always end up checking that it's recording a couple times. Then when I get the recorder back from him after the ceremony, I always feel a wave of relief when I see it's been recording.

Well.. apart from 'forgetting to hit record', I did another foolish mistake on my last wedding. I accidentally plugged my mic on the earphone jack instead of the mic! So it's recording a very audible and clear silence the whole ceremony! Lucky my camera was relatively close, wind was quite, and so my on board mic recorded all the audio. Talk about a backup plan!

I've been taping over the settings button just to prevent the settings on the recorder changes accidentally. Next time, I'll tape over the earphone jack just to make I only have one hole to plug my mic into!

I thought I was the only true idiot when it comes to plugging things into the wrong hole!!!

I changed a battery on my older receiver and to do so I need to take it out of the camera mounting case on the back of the camera and also unplug the output cable....I did just that, changed the battery and plugged the output cable back into the earphone jack.

Luckily the 2nd XLR channel where the receiver plugs into defaulted to internal mic and I still had audio!!!

Even luckier, it wasn't a wedding!!! I was doing a Realty shoot and the audio was simply a narration of the home's condition so I got away with pushing the audio level in the NLE...had it been a wedding I would shudder to think what would have happened!!

Shucks another hole to plug up as I always monitor thru the camera (I have already taped over the audio standby switch when a priest fiddled with it during the ceremony and put my transmitter into standby)

Tape is a good idea for a lot of gear where you might just accidentally plug something in wrong!!! Wouldn't it be nice if audio stuff was intelligent (like cars??) forget to hit record and you get a warning !!

Chris