I've been shooting Choir shows for about 4 years in my local area, did it as a favor for a co-workers choir director, she liked my work so much I have been hired for every gig since..
I started out just using a Canon HG10 since It was all I had at the time, I soon got the video bug fever and purchased a Canon HG21 to go along with my HG10 for multi cam footage shots which later led me to purchase the outstanding Sony AX2000.
My Canons have been giving me issues due to their limitations so I just decided to order the Sony NX5U to go with my 2000 since the price difference was so close and it offers far more adjustments so it's a no brainer for me..
This will allow me to retire the old HG10 which does not cut it anymore...My Canon HG21 still does a very good job as a locked down cam and matches up very well with the sony 2000, so very little color correction is required in post.. So when my NX5 arrives my setup will be the following..

Sony NX5U AVCHD 2-32Gig SDHC Class 6
Sony AX2000 AVCHD 2-32Gig SDHC Class 6
Canon HG21 AVCHD 120Gig HD or 32Gig SDHC

Okay - final question. I know this has been discuseed many times before, but since I seem to have attracted some folks in this thread whose opinions I truly value, so here goes...

When buying new or used (B&H, Amazon, etc.), do you buy an extended warranty? I have in the past on expensive purchases and NEVER used it. Is it really worth it if you aren't constantly taking your equipment out onto a sandy beach or duct-taped to a skateboard to POV your newest trick?

My cams go from padded hardcase to tripod (covered if they'll be sitting for a while out in the open) and then right back to the padded hardcase....and I dare anyone to touch or breathe on them. :)

When buying new or used (B&H, Amazon, etc.), do you buy an extended warranty?

I never would. Those warranties are ripoffs, IMO.

I have the extended warranty with accidental coverage from sony on my AX2000 even though I treat it with tender loving care at all times and keep it well protected case wise..I will be purchasing the Accidental extended coverage from sony as well for my NX5U because life can always creep up and bite you in the a** when you least expect it.
It only averages to a little over 25 cents a day which is less than a cup of coffee for the coverage....
I just feel less stressed while on the job.....It can also keep you out of prison for nearly killing the person for knocking over your camera who can barely put one foot in front of the other without a set of instructions......

A variety of considerations led me to not purchase the extended warranties for my cameras, but the importance of these considerations vary for different people in different places, Here's what I see as the considerations.

First, how much does it cost and what does it really cover? Read the fine print. Technically, an extended warranty protects against manufacturing defects and parts failures rather than accidents, wear and tear, and things that might be your "fault" (i.e., things like the skateboard accidents and sand in the equipment.). Protection against damage is actually a form of property insurance. Some extended warranties may provide this kind of insurance coverage and some may not. If you have business insurance, it may cover some or all of those things. It may not. If you are on a tight budget and feel you are careful with your cameras, maybe you are comfortable with no coverage or or more limited coverage (say, protection against damage from fire, flooding and theft.) If you need an extended warranty for peace of mind (or to avoid giving a piece of your mind to the manufacturer of a shoddy product), do not rely on what the sales people tell you. Read the thing to find out what it actually covers.

Second, if you use a credit card (and maybe a debit card) for the purchase, your card company may extend the standard warranty by a year or two.

Third, with new technologies coming out so fast, I find myself doubting that I really care about a five year warranty on, say, the less expensive consumer-type cams I own and use for "b" cams (such as CX550s), For example, my first HD cam was a Sony HDR-HC1 that I purchased new. This was a tape-based HDV cam. When intermittent glitches and malfunctions started to show up in the tape mechanism in the fourth year (plus a couple of beatings from tripods getting knocked over, something that the available extended warranties would not have covered if I had purchsed one --- I found that Sony's new (or, rather, what was then new) and tapeless CX550 was so much better a camera for what I do, that I lost interest in repairs or buying a tapeless unit. (It also happens that I did wind up with a a deal on some tapeless recording units so I can still use the HC1 when I have a particularly complicated event to shoot. Tell you what, though: the newer CX550 cams make a noticably better picture so that I have to be judicious about throwing the HC1 into the mix.)

Having sung the praises of the Sony CX550 here I think I should let it be know that I have come across a problem that may be vital to anyone thinking of buying one. I may be alone in this but it is a problem I've not got a cause or solution for. I have posted in another part of the forum in case anyone can shed light on it.

If you are interested I've posted the problem here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/general-hd-720-1080-acquisition/497757-sony-cx550-audio-glitch-end-file.html#post1662380

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, George. While things are still very much up in the air as to what our future holds, if we are to purchase new cameras, the NX70U and one or two of the CX models seem to the the front runners thus far.

I'll keep up with your thread to see what the verdict to your problem is.

THIS PROBLEM HAS BEEN SOLVED THANKS TO MICHAEL BRAY'S POST BELOW FOR POINTING ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION

I think it may be a problem with some Sony cams as I found this whilst looking for the answer.

NX5u dropping 4 frames of audio after 30 minutes : Sony NXCAM (http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/298/438)

and a few others; if you google you'll find I'm not alone.

It's not a huge problem so long as you are aware and make contingencies. In my case the cams weren't started at the exact same time so I was able to bridge the gap with the audio track from one of the others.

I'll wait to see if anyone else has experienced it with these cams.

I think it may be a problem with some Sony cams as I found this whilst looking for the answer.

NX5u dropping 4 frames of audio after 30 minutes : Sony NXCAM (http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/298/438)

and a few others; if you google you'll find I'm not alone.

It's not a huge problem so long as you are aware and make contingencies. In my case the cams weren't started at the exact same time so I was able to bridge the gap with the audio track from one of the others.

I'll wait to see if anyone else has experienced it with these cams.

This is not a problem with these cams. Sony requires the use of the supplied software (Picture Motion Browser or Content Management Utility depending on camera model) in order to properly "stitch" multiple continuous files together thus eliminating the dropped audio frames.

All high definition AVCHD camcorders have the same file splitting problem. A simple solution that doesn't require additional software was discussed on this forum in January 2008.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-vixia-series-avchd-hdv-camcorders/113083-canon-vixia-hg10-2gb-file-limit-headache-2.html

After you've got the cameras and burner, adding a free blu-ray disk to a wedding package means 1$ for a blank and pushing a different button in the burning software. Most couples want their marriage and wedding memories to last a lifetime and blu-ray speaks to that future. Therefore, a free blu-ray disk will be appreciated by even the most technologically backward couples, as long as it's properly labeled so they don't think it's a defective DVD.

A USER MALFUNCTION is not "a problem with the cameras"...

This has been discussed and resolved ad nauseam - AVCHD has a file "break" at roughly 2G, you MUST stitch the files back together PROPERLY, usually via the software the manufacturer INCLUDED, although other options are available.

YOU CANNOT JUST DRAG AND DROP THE FILES!!! If you do, there will be a gap, or even more messy problems with "missing" video or audio.

I guess since there's another wave of people going tapeless, this is popping up AGAIN - it was a "hot topic" when early adopters ran into it, myself included.

PLEASE don't go blaming the cameras for failure to RTFM, though I do understand the frustration - when I first encountered it, I couldn't find anyone who knew much about how these tapeless cams handled long clips... but now there's PLENTY of ACCURATE information on how to "fix" the "problem" that isn't the fault of the cameras!!

If you read the thread I have marked this as resolved both here and on the tread where I first raised it.

Before posting I did a search and only found reports of it happening, I could not find a solution or cause, it was only after I posted on this forum that the answer was given and I acknowledged this.

As I mentioned the reason I posted here was because of the glowing enthusiasm I had shown for this camera on this thread and I did not want to influence anyone to buy it if there was indeed a problem with it. I posted here as an advisory.

It is easy to be smug and criticise someone when you know the answer. Try to understand that not everyone starts at the same place you are at.

I have to admit to having given my share of curmudgeonly RTFM responses, but I've noticed lately that the search engine does not seem to be turning up threads as well as it used to. There have been a couple of recent instances when I snapped out a response of "RTFM and do a search" and then did my own search to find threads I knew I had read --- and could not find them for the life of me. So, there I was having already kicked the puppy,

And, just to add to the complexity, it occurs to me that Sony's PMB/CMU programs do not run on Macs. With regard to the script that Eric cited, did anyone figure out how to get that or something similar to run on a Mac? What are Mac users supposed to do? (I don't use Macs so I do not know.)

Edited to add: apparently you can run the script using the Mac's "terminal" function, whatever that may be.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nxcam-hxr-nx5u/482111-hi-new-user-spanned-clips-gps-extraction-questions.html

The decision to make AVCHD compatible with Windows 95 by maintaining a complete BDMV structure using the FAT32 filesystem in the camcorder so the video can be burned directly to disk without any further processing is not an engineering decision I would have made. Still, once you figure out how to paste the 2GB chunks back together the workflow isn't that bad.

At retail prices blu-ray players are $80, burners are $100 and media is $1.25 per disk. The day will soon come when high-definition is expected. For me, providing blu-ray now indicates my hope that the marriage will last long into the future.

George,

Didn't mean to be overly rough (it's been one of those weeks, so if I offended, please accept my apology!), but the other thread title was "Sony CX550 audio glitch at end of file" and here you posted to someone considering the camera... "I think I should let it be know that I have come across a problem that may be vital to anyone thinking of buying one. I may be alone in this but it is a problem I've not got a cause or solution for", pretty much blamed the CAMERA, or at the minimum impled there was something "wrong" with it...

While I understand the frustration upon first encountering the "engineering decision" (well put, Eric!), you don't want to go around "warning" people that "the sky is falling"... when as you've now discovered, the solution is quite simple, even if the "cause" is something that definitely makes you scratch your head! You got "the answer" pretty fast here (if you can't get it on DVi, it doesn't exist!), but didn't even give time for anyone to solve the problem before posting a "warning"... I think that's what struck me?

I will say that when I first encountered this with a CX7 I picked up without software just to check it out (about 4 model years back now!), even Sony support was totally CLUELESS (DVi members often seem to have more detailed and correct info than Sony US I've found! Not to say Sony support isn't excellent generally, just they can't be experts on everything), so I'm not unsympathetic, but the "problem" has been known, reported, and a solution widely recognized for several years now. I know I've responded to at least two threads recently by "new" AVCHD users who hit the snag... I realize if you don't hit the right search terms though, they may not have come up.

I'm sure this is nothing more than a "new user surprise", as the need for external software seems rather DUMB (not a wise engineering or marketing move...), As someone who goes by the creedo "Manuals? We don't need no steeenking manuals", I hate to say it, but some of these new cameras sorta require it... The A33/55 and even the new Sony Point and Shoot have such a huge amount of "features", it's worth the read... and nearly mandatory, much as I hate to say it!

I had just decided to go with the NX70U. However, just as I was about to pull the trigger, I ran across some reviews of how poorly it handles low light situations. Since my mainstay is choral concerts, plays and recitals, this could be a deal breaker.

Has anyone experienced negative low light performance with this model or read about such?

Well, there are samples here on DVi of the NX70 vs. the XA10... the NX70 looked pretty good performance wise to me. I have seen a few indications that the CX700 (consumer cam, but similar to the NX) performs a bit worse than the CX550 - but those samples sure looked good to me...

So I'm inclined to suspect that as often happens with "review" sites there may be issues with the "test" methodology used - I saw one or more review sites a couple years ago zoom the Sonys in to match the framing of the competition - which would knock off a stop or two and make the camera "look bad"

There are simply limits to how far into the dark you can go - as I put it you can't expect to take video of a black cat in a dark room at midnight (that's what NIGHTSHOT is for, silly!). The CX550 is pretty well regarded for low noise and good low light, better in low lux mode. The reports posted here have been positive for the CX700, so I don't think you'd be disappointed with the NX70 (check the forum section dedicated to it, you might look and ask there, as those lucky people have their hands on them!!).

Remember too that "stage lighting" and "low light" are different animals, and there are plenty of us here shooting with small Sonys for such events, either as additional angles or as multi-cam setups.

I had just decided to go with the NX70U. However, just as I was about to pull the trigger, I ran across some reviews of how poorly it handles low light situations. Since my mainstay is choral concerts, plays and recitals, this could be a deal breaker.

Has anyone experienced negative low light performance with this model or read about such?

When a reviewer says that low light performance is "poor," it really helps to know "poor compared to what?" Maybe the reviewer is comparing the NX70 to an EX1 (which has much larger glass and uses three ½" sensors) with or to a DSLR (again with larger glass with a very large sensor and a camera that is probably not suitable for what you want to do).

For me, who uses CX and NX cams for stage events, my initial thought is that there is unnecessary panic over some unspecified reviews. But, then, I have been using the cameras and you have not, so please do not take that thought as mocking or harsh. It is really hard to tell what concerns you without the context.

My events may be different than yours. so let's talk about frames of reference.

First, how low do you think you need to go for stage shoots? Do you want to see the stagehands moving scenery during blackouts and do it without resorting to a nightshot/ir function? That is not quite the "black cat" situation Dave mentioned, but if you need that kind of capability it requires a lot more money for a much bigger camera with much larger sensors.

Second, most of us do not need that capability for dance recitals and choral concerts. We are shooting the performers who have to be lit enough for the audience to see them I've used my CX cams with no problem in shooting, say, a Christmas concert in an old church with the performers lit only by candles and some lights bounced off the ceiling (basically to give enough light for the singers to read their music.) It was too dark for the audience to read their programs. It was too dark to use my older Sony HDRHC1 as an additional B cam. Sony rated the HC1 down to 7 lux and the CX cams are rated to 3 lux. My NX5 is, I believe, rated down to 1.5 lux. The CX and NX will give very usable footage in much dimmer light. That said, I've rarely shot any events where the light was too dim for the HC1.

Also, consider this. When you go down into dim lighting with HD footage, you often see grain (or video twitter) in the darkest shadows. With that Christmas concert footage my CX cams were zoomed in about 1/3 of the way to properly frame the singers, so that were not at widest iris. Still, the CX footage had less noise than my NX footage. The folks who got the DVDs said that the picture was better than what they could see while seated in the room.

Third, have I ever run into a dim lighting situation where I did not get usable footage from my CX cams? Yes. I can think of three extreme situations:

--- A dance recital where one dance was done on a stage lit with a single and very weak black light at the front edge of the stage while the two dancers in white tee-shirts were standing about 20 feet back on a very large stage. I had to set max gain on my NX5 to get usable footage. I might have gotten usable footage from my CX cams but they were fixed cams placed where I could not get to them to zoom them in . (and zooming would diminish the low light capability.)

--- another dance recital where the finale was for the kids to walk up the aisles holding tiny candle-like lights and go up onto stage. Until there we got up to 30 kids on stage, you could not see anything but the tiny pin-pricks of the LED lights. (At the point where we had 30 kids on stage, we were getting enough lights that were sufficiently close together that we could start to see faces.)

---- a wedding reception where the planner decided to make the first dance "romantic" by turning the lights down to the point where the guests could see nothing of the couple but a dim white glow from bride's dress.

I suppose you could say that I "experienced negative low light performance" in these extreme situations. Are these the kind of low light situations which would make you want to avoid an NX70?

I rather doubt it. The NX70 should be excellent for what you want to do. It (like the CX cams it is based on) can go much lower than you will usually need Because the NX also has more controls and more accessible manual controls than the CX cams, you will likely be able to do even better.

As for "poor" reviews, it helps to know what reviews you have seen so we can see the context. I recall reading one review where the writer thought the CX550 was "terrible" in low light because the iris would only go down to f/3.5. The reviewer apparently did not understand that zooming in affects how wide your camera's iris can go, which does affect low light ability as well. Your CX/NX may have f1.8 at full wide but only about (I think) f/3.5 at full zoom. There is a similar reduction with every camera I know of. Do note that the NX and CX cams go very wide on the wide angle end of things. For example, the Canon HV20 was (I think) something like 43° at maximum width, but my NX and CX cams have 30° lenses. I recall reading some reviews where the CX or NX cams were zoomed in to correspond to the lesser width of the other camera's lenses, to give comparable framing. The folks apparently were not aware that zooming in could reduce maximum aperture size, so they claimed that the low light performance was not what Sony claimed and no better (or worse) than the camera they were compairing.

There is also "spec shopping." I've read a few reviews or posts (not here) where folks claimed that the XHA1 was better in low light than the NX5 because the XHA1 specifications rated it at 0.4 lux while the NX5 only does 1.5 lux. But the XH cam gets that with a virtually unusable 1/4 sec. shutter speed while the NX cam is rated with a 1/30 sec. shutter speed.

So, I hope this answers your questions.

Gotta resurrect this thread briefly as we are finally at a point where we can make this changeover.

Found a supposedly "new and untouched" Sony CX500V for $700 obo locally. How much difference is there between a 500v and a 550v? Is that a decent price?

Rey -
Maybe for a new and untouched one, it's "OK", I've got two near mint ones I'm selling for around $200 less with accessories... no boxes or papers, but who needs that anyway!?

Good "B" cameras, slightly smaller LCD (2.7 vs. 3.5), no Viewfinder, and the older lens range, which starts at a narrower field and has a bit more tele. If you add a wide angle Sony HG .7x lens, you get basically the same lens range as a 550. No headphone or mic in, although you can go in through the Ai Shoe for Sony branded accessories. Personally I prefer the front mounted button/control wheel, the CX500 has a smallish one located at the rear, it's fine for adjustments, but I like the front mount better.

Hope that gives you some idea of the differences - I used the pair I've got to match with the XR500 and then the CX550, they are excellent for acquiring a high quality video image as they use the same basic sensor block. I didn't need the added audio capabilities, or I'd use a Sony bluetooth mic in 5.1 mode (camera surround with bluetooth mic being the center channel). For that, they did the job, and did it well, but I try to retire equipment after a couple years and upgrade.

If you decide the CX500V would meet your needs, (or have any more Q's), I've got a couple here looking for a good home!

I went back and looked at what you're planning, and again, these would probably make good B/C angle cameras - that's exactly why I bought and used them - inexpensive way to get additional angles, and a good image quality match for the higher end Sony cams (like a pair of CX550's or 700's). Plus, because they are small and light and have good OIS, they make a "handy" camera ror personal use!

Just the man I was hoping to hear from!

I may be able to get this one for $500 cash. He seems very eager to get rid of it.

My hope is that I can use it as a third camera to place off to the side of the stage on the floor and locked down for a different angle/perspective to go to. I was also hoping that it would make a decent emergency backup for what will be my "B" cam - the CX550V or CX700V.

yep, $500 is a pretty good "going rate", wish it were more, since I'm selling mine, but... and yes, will be perfect as a cutaway extra cam - I usually shoot 4 cams for stage type productions - two 550's and the 500's. Going to be going a slightly different direction, and hoping to help finance an "A" cam - the NX70 beckons, or perhaps the coming VG20...

If your seller doesn't go for it, let me know, I've got a couple 500's here! I ship, and PayPal works fine!

FWIW, I used a single tripod with a custom made "multi head" so I could run 4 cams - one wide, the two 500's set to cover the two side stage zones, and one cam on a fluid pan head to cover center and zoom in for tight shots, etc., pretty much guarantees a usable shot to cut to, and that everyone on stage gets some decent "screen time".

Thanks again, Dave. Unfortunately, it sold before I made a decision. On the other hand, I do have the Canon up for sale (no bites yet), so we're beginning to take the "leap".

Unless a great deal comes up, it looks like we're going with the Sony HXR-NX70U and one or two of the higher end CX models (550V/560V/700V or equivalent). The NX70 has a slightly higher price than some of it's Canon and Panasonic counterparts, but Sony seems to have not only a better price on the other two, but better features for the money.

Of course, if someone wants to point out a setup I've overlooked, I've got nothing but time until the Canon is gone. Which needs to be soon, btw! :)

I've got my eye on the NX70 as well, or perhaps the new VG20, with my 550V pair and a few smaller Sony P&S cameras for backup angles, plus the new SLR/SLT cameras will shoot video (short clips, they heat up fast!).

If you decide the "B" cameras don't need to be as fancy, I've still got those CX500V's! Plus I've got a lot of extras so they are "ready to shoot", let me know if you'd be interested in picking up a pair that way - they've served me well, and I almost want to keep one, but if you get that Canon sold and the #'s add up, I'd sell the pair... They should be a pretty good match to the NX70, they were spot on with the CX550's.

For the type of work you do I would suggest you get a PD150, PD170, or another VX2100 and be done with it. Your footage will match, and you will not get better low-light in hardly anything out there even new.

If you must go Hd to make the wife happy so be it, but for your work I would think you could squeeze more life out of your old camera. Use the Canon as a backup or third cam., sweet!

Dave - What you asking for the pair?

Jeff - That's still a thought if things fall through. I just got the wife onboard with the switch to HD after pointing out all of the advantages compared to the way I shoot now - especially eliminating the addition of more of the countless miniDV tapes packed away. Another advantage is the ability to set up cameras away from me that I don't have to "babysit". Right now, the constant adjustments between just two cams and a soundboard sometimes carrying six channels of audio are nerve wracking on top of the anxiety I deal with wondering if one of the cams is going to give up on me during a shoot. If only to make my life easier... :)

With a PD150 or 170 you'd have much better audio options with two inputs. For what you do I'm not sure HD would be any advantage at all. The low light on these HD cameras isn't even close to what you're using (the Sony).

Dave cameras are great ones, for sure. But only if you can accept a significant loss in low light ability compared to what you're using now. If they made a 16:9 version of the VX2100 I would have bought it, and I'd still be using today. I would skip HD altogether if I could but I couldn't, so here I am, in editing hell where everything takes forever and a day to process.

I hear ya...and fully agree. However, I no longer feel like I can compete and expand into recital videography without the upgrade to HD. The customers may or may not notice in the end product (except for better framing via widescreen), but clients that have made a verbal commitment to us for the coming year expect more angles and no missed shots because of tape changes.

If your're running mulitple cams tape changes shouldn't even be a factor. You change them at different times. I do catholic masses and had to change tapes every time, but the customer never noticed. You make sure your other cam has a good shot, change tapes, and you're done, no issue. I used 90 minute tapes as well. I'm sure you know this.

You're already set on the HD, go for it.

1. With tapeless, tape changes are NEVER a factor. Much nicer to be able to not worry about that "extra thing". hit record, let 'er run. Hit the button again at the end.

2. If it's so dark you can't see with your eyes, you're not going to get a decent image anyway, I know the older VX's have a reputation, but the newer Sonys (anything 500 series or later) with the EXMOR R sensor technology will do just fine, thank you, if you set them properly. There are limits with any camera, but the backlit sensors stepped up quite a bit, I have yet to worry about shooting any "stage" show with them.

3. While you have to INVEST in the necessary hardware to process HD (AVCHD especially), it's like anything else, it's an investment. MAYBE the end user won't see the difference, but if they expect "HD" image quality and you can't deliver, you're out of the game, and I'm sorry, but SD footage shot 4:3 or buying equipment to shoot such footage is a poor investment decision. If it's not obsolete already, it's going there sooner rather than later.

Shooting stage shows wide screen will simply look better (better format, less "dead space"), shooting in HD will give you more options, even if ultimately you deliver in SD for another season or two (or since DVD's are still the most common delivery format, for the foreseeable future!). Yes, it can take more edit time, and rendering is a pain IF you're maintaining a full HD workflow on an older machine that can't handle the data rate. There are workarounds, some better than others. BUT, you save substantial time on "ingest" over tape (1/3 real time vs. real time), which adds up with multi-cam, and if your computer is up to par, editing should be about the same, just be prepared for longer rendering times and go have a little time off while the computer does the work!




If you shoot HD and you and the customer don't see the difference, then you're doing something wrong...

Okay, things have finally begun to fall into place! I have acquired a new Sony NX70U and two used Sony CX500Vs. The NX70 has been here a couple of weeks and the CX500s just arrived a couple of days ago. Now, here's the problem...
One of my major clients has asked me to come out TONIGHT to tape their choral show. They are fully aware of our equipment changes and asked me to tape because they know that I need the practice and hands-on experience with the new cams, as well as wanting a DVD of the show. I have barely had time to get these cams charged and date settings done. I have not had ANY time to learns the in and outs!

Can anyone who uses this type of setup give me some pointers on settings, what to expect and be on the lookout for, what not to do, etc.? The NX70U will be my main cam - used for closeups, different angles, pans, etc.. One of the CX500s will be set up right next to it and locked down as a wide angle. The other CX500 will more than likely be placed near the front of the stage off to the side for a locked down closeup. I may be able to monitor this one from where I will be, but unable to make changes once the performance begins.

It's difficult enough getting the sound set up for this event (even though it's very small and low key compared to their usual shows), but dealing with three new (and very different from what I am used to)cameras is daunting and puts me in the weeds. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Without knowing anything about the location, and not having any first hand experience operating an NX70 it is really hard to think of what could be said that would be helpful.

Here is one thing, though. If the stage is reasonably well lit, the CX cams will do a pretty decent job on full auto mode. If you have strong contrast (say, spotlights or direct overhead lighting), there is a spotlight function in the menu which works pretty well. For zooming with the NX70, I would suggest riding the exposure control. The view screen will give you a pretty good impression of what is too bright or too dark.

Hi Rey - sent you an e-mail - call me if you hit a snag! It should go smoothly though, these cameras should match pretty well overall so you've got consistent footage in post.

I and others do recommend setting AE shift 2-4 to the negative, other than that, should get good results in straight "auto" if it comes to it!

Hey guys!

I did go back through the notes I have been taking on this whole matter for four months and shifted the AE down -3. :)

I know that sound came out great. The two CX500's looked about the same, but the NX70 was a little dark. Not too bad, so I don't know if it was an exposure matter or just the LCD screen brightness. I'll take a look at it in editing tomorrow and make adjustments to the cams from there.

Hi Rey,

With the NX70, be sure to use the zebras and histogram, and learn to use them. This only comes with practice, but you can detect overexposure (with the zebras) and overall exposure (with the histogram) quite reliably.

The NX70 does a pretty decent job in full auto, it might be worth trying that out. Unless lighting conditions are challenging, the computer inside that camera is a lot faster at correcting exposure and focus than my brain is!

Also, don't forget to check out the NX70 forums on here, for advice and ideas, the users there won't necessarily be dipping into the wedding forum!

Thanks, Mike!

Honestly, I have never learned how to read and interpret a histogram. That is something that I definitely need to take some to time to do. Up to now, I have relied solely on the LCD for exposure. Yes, I know, that's a horrible habit to get into. :)

Another thing I need to check into on my end and possibly ask on the NX70 forums - the sound was very low on the camera. I was using the XLR inputs to record the sound from my mixer. I tried the auto setting and then turned the manual up to about 8 and still got a low reading. I then decided to pull out the Zoom H2 to record the sound as a backup. There could be a setting on the mixer that I have overlook since I have never used the XLR outputs from it before.

This event is not normally recorded and they brought me into it just because they knew I needed a "guinea pig" as they called it. I think I can make the necessary corrections in post, but luckily no one will be upset if something went terribly wrong.

The really great thing about these little cams is that nothing ever goes "terribly" wrong.

I posted a rough edit on our Facebook page. In it, you can see subtle differences between the NX70 (main cam) and the two CX500's. I think it's just an issue of some slight adjustments to bring the two models together. By the way, the third angle (only shown briefly) was used for testing only. I hope to have it better framed in a better location in the future.

It's the top clip entitled "Preview of 'Night of Music'":
Magical Memories Productions | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Magical-Memories-Productions/35765855876)

Looked pretty good overall, a bit hard to tell because the image quality wasn't all that high, but offhand it looked like this was one of those few times you actually might have to bump the exposure/exposure shift or leave it on "auto".... looked like the NX was on "auto", with the CX's AE shifted down a bit? It also could have been just the overall composition of the frame...

With the dark background and all the black formal style outfits, you actually have to let the camera give a little more brightness to the overall picture - carefully, as it may tend to "overexpose" to compensate for the majority "dark" frame, and you don't want to blow the highlights either, but in this case I would have suggested let the CX500's ride up a little more, OR use the AE shift on the NX70 to better match. Generally these little cams are pretty good at not blowing highs, so you can give a little in a dark situation and adjust in post.

Probably use the zebras on the NX to judge where the limits are, and dial in the other cams to match.

It's always tricky when you have either a "bright" overall stage or a "dark" one... adding to it is if there's either too much or not enough contrast... black on black is a bugger anytime, especially if you also have bright whites... and non-optimal lighting. On top of that, you zoom out to a room with light wood finish, and that changes the overall brightness of the frame...

I'd guess the client is happy overall?

This client is always happy with our work. And they were well aware of the learning curve we were facing. They love the clip.

I was setting up for this show three hours early (call it OCD :) ), but did not know how they planned to set up the stage. Normally, the stage lights are up, house lights down, curtain open and risers set farther back. Since this event was very short, informal and staged so differently, I really had no way to prepare and adjust the cameras as I normally do. With the show only lasting 20 minutes, they also did not have a sound tech on hand, so I was left to my own devices to get a lead from that one mic they were using for this song.

And just so you know, that clip is not the final edit. It was more or less to get a gauge on how the three cams play together and to see if my computer was capable of handling the new file type. That wide shot toward the end and the third angle to the right will more than likely not make the final cut.

I did end up purchasing Cineform NeoScene for future use to avoid the stuttering I was getting in Vegas while editing, though. Vegas 11 actually seemed to handle it better, but playback was still choppy.

Okay, since it was mentioned in this thread and I am now down to the process, how can I get the best results when converting HD to DVD? I'm using Vegas 10 & 11 to edit and Cineform NeoScene to convert the mts files to avi. Are there any special settings I need to be looking at in those two apps?

If you're recording progressive, and do not need to deinterlace, then you don't need cineform at all. I have and use Cineform HD Link for resizing and deinterlacing when needed but I found out if I'm not deinterlacing (I don't like Vegas' deinterlacing) Cineform is an unnecessary step, and my DVDs turn out stellar. I showed a DVD to a prospect, and they asked me if it was bluray, it was that good.

Here's the workflow I came up with after months of painful experienced, and after much advice from others here.

For DVD from HD:

1. Set Project properties to SD widescreen progressive and best, do not use project properties to match your original footage.
2. Crop footage on the timeline to 16:9 using the Aspect Ratio tool. In one click you are cropping your footage to 16:9 dimension, so Vegas doesn't have to do that.
3. Render to appropriate settings, and you're done.

I'm no expert, and there may be those who set project properties to match original footage, that is how I always thought it needed to be done, but the method I use works well, and was recommended by Cineform support.

Jeff,

My footage is 1080/60i. Regardless, I'm using Cineform (with HDLink) to decompress the files to AVI since my computer lags on HD. Hopefully a bit more memory and a graphics card will help until I can get a mb/processor upgrade, but this is basically my starting point right now.

The problem with HD link is that you need to resize to 16:9, but Vegas doesn't see the resulting files in the correct aspect ratio, they appear squished With Vegas 10 you can use a method to fix it using project properties, but it doesn't work in 11 except one clip at a time.

Excalibur supposedly has a tool that can work, and Edward says it stays functional after the demo expires, I beleive.

It is this hassle that caused me to contact Cineform and they recommended the way I told you, to crop the original footage on the timeline.

So what I would do then, is one of two things, use hdlink to resize to 16:9 SD, and then deal with the aspect ratio in vegas later as best as you can. OR, in HD link in preferences do NOT resize the footage. Just convert it to cineform, and then use the same workflow I described earlier by cropping the footage to 16:9 on the timeline, it would work perfectly.

If you want to get fancy and make both: I make both Bluray and DVD of everything I do. For that you just create a version of the project using bluray setting in you project properties and render correctly for bluray. Then for DVD you save project under another name and use 16:9 properties, crop the footage on the timeline using aspect ratio script, and you're set.

If you need the script, I'll email it to you, very simple to use, i forget where it was from easier to email it then find a link for you.

If your're running mulitple cams tape changes shouldn't even be a factor. You change them at different times. I do catholic masses and had to change tapes every time, but the customer never noticed. You make sure your other cam has a good shot, change tapes, and you're done, no issue. I used 90 minute tapes as well. I'm sure you know this.

You're already set on the HD, go for it.

Hi Jeff, can you post a link to 90 minute tapes that you using? Thanks.

I haven't bought tapes in ages, place I bought them last was in Columbus, but I've moved to Cincinnati. You can buy them at B&H for a decent price. I used only Sony brand.