The wedding I am shooting this sunday, I am going to mic up the officiant and groom. Each will have a Zoom H1 recorder. The ceremony is outside and my buddy is gonna let me borrow a good sony wireless mic and a generic one he has as a backup. I am paranoid about the wireless after reading all the threads here.

So should i go and buy 2 wired lavs the Sony ECM-CS10 for a total of $100 or just take the chance? Also I am thinking the way the setup with the wireless mics will be is the wireless to its transmitter on them, then the receiver to the zoom on them or by the tripod.

Hi Sean

It all depends on what frequencies are available and also if there is likely to be any interference. I don't use zoom's at all cos I'm lazy and like my audio synced!!! Also I like to be able to monitor my audio continuously!! Zoom's do an awesome job but make triple sure it's actually recording before dropping it into the guys pocket. Something like Pural Eyes is a good idea for syncing in the NLE!!

I use a twin channel Azden 330ULT on the groom and Church lectern and then an Azden 105LT single channel on the officiant...PLUS one cam is also close enough for the Rode mic to grab emergency audio on the 2nd XLR channel as well. If you are worried you can also hide a Zoom around where they are standing as a backup. Audio is tricky if it's not good and a disaster if it's absent so pay special attention to your setup

Chris

I decided to buy 4 Zoom h1's instead a h4n. This was mainly because I had a corporate job that I needed them for. It has worked out really well. I just usually use at least two during the ceremony. If I can hide another on stage I do this. Monitoring the audio has never been an issue. I just make sure that they are recording. I just make sure that they are recording. I just make sure that they are recording. Truthfully the H1's eq'd sound so good.

Good luck

David

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David Schmaus Photography - Dayton, Ohio (http://davidschmaus.com)
Wedding Photography | Wedding Video (http://davidschmaus.com/blog)

I'm like Chris. If I can't monitor my audio I get very paranoid. In all honesty, in all the years I've been doing this, I've only had trouble with the old VHF units and that's going back a lot of years. Currently th system I use is the AT1821 dual channel receiver with 2 lavs (generally used for ceremonys in a church-otherwise I might use 1 lav and a drum mic with the plugin xmitter for music and the DJ or musician's PA system) and I can truthfully say I've had no problems with wireless. I check freqs when I get to the venue and the only audio drops I've ever had was when I didn't push the XLR into the receiver fully. My bad.
However if you're more comfortable with the H1s go for it. Different strokes for different folks.

I dont think ill be able to monitor too much. The plan is, to have a wide shot, 2nd camera guy on cam b with a side mcu of the grooms face, and then me running and gunning shooting some of everything

The quality of the DVRs has gotten so good they now rival the better wireless setups for 25% of the cost.

I can see for those who always have monitored their audio where not doing so could be a tad stressful. But if you hadn't ever gotten into that habit, at the cost of DVRs you can mic up anyone/anything that makes sound and cover your butt that way.

Sean, my 2c is with Chris and Don.

I come from far enough back to have lived through the problems or rather rigamarole of syncing the sound recording (crystal controlled and slaved to the film camera) to welcome the ease and security if knowing that my audio is laid down with the video and will never move out of sync unless I separate them and cock it up in the edit.

My four channels of radio are all VHF on licenced channels (two per unit) - my units predate affordable diversity units but we're working over short distances and so the potential problem of drop outs doesn't arise.

Apart from the security - and remember the Zoom units aren't really considered professional quality in terms of syncing - the ease of editing would never lead me to use separate sources for my main sound. Of course, I do use an H4 for non-critical sound recordings, wild sound, church organ etc.

For spoken audio I use two Sennheiser g2 wireless mics and the recivers hooked on my camera on ch1 and ch2. I have one H1 to capture the music in sterio, usually placed on a mic stand. For solo singer I either use shennheiser 416 shotgun mic pointing towards the singer connected to my second cam. Never had an interference from the radio mics. Just turn on the recivers first to check if the frequency you are using is free and without interference, and be sure not to turn on the transmitters on this check.

I use 2 Olympus DVR's, and never want to go back to wireless again. I understand that they're not technically "professional" quality, but I've used them repeatedly and have achieved amazing results every time.

At first I was a little anxious about not being able to monitor the audio, but, as others have said elsewhere, what are you going to do in the middle of the ceremony if the wireless cuts out? Nothing. My DVR's have performed so reliably that I set them to record and put them out of mind -- it's great to have one less thing to worry about.

Hi Corey

I have 4 mics feeding 2 x XLR inputs and my two main mics are feeding XLR1 and XLR2 via a switching unit on the camera's cold shoe up front....If I have a problem I can switch either channel to the standby mics....and monitor them as well!!

A true to life case was a wedding in May where the priest walked up to the lectern to "turn on" the Church mic and in all innocence actually switched my transmitter from "audio" to "standby" ...the right channel in my headphones just went silent as he cleared his throat to recite the Gospel....I immediately switched my box over to the standby mic and all was well....now, if I had a Zoom there and he turned it off, I wouldn't have known (I was busy getting him in shot at the time) so without any monitoring I would have been dead without knowing it. OK, the audio wasn't great as I had switched to the cam's Rode mic about 10' away from him BUT I did get audio and the bride was quite happy.

I know DVR's give excellent quality but the monitoring side would be my worry...I'd end up feeding the DVR into maybe a bluetooth transmitter just so I could satisfy myself that audio is running!!!
BTW: That might even work...I use a BT transmitter on my camera's headphone jack so I can still keep tabs on the audio while I'm shooting cutaways maybe 10' or 20' away with a pait of BT headphones !!

Chris

Corey

Of course, you'd be correct, if there really was nothing you can do if a radio channel goes down, but that's not the case - there's plenty you can do.

Immediately you can make sure that the quality from your second channel, in most cases the gun mic is directed at the source your now missing radio channel was taking. By judicious signals to your colleagues you'll also alert them to your problem so that perhaps someone nearer can make sure their gun is getting the best possible alternative sound.

After that you'll be planning contingencies for solving the problem at the next available opportunity. First will almost certainly be to change the batteries - first in the receiver since in our case that will also indicate if there's a carrier signal coming from the transmitter; if there isn't then we'll change that battery at the first opportunity. If there is then we'll start looking for strained connections - fortunately all our units use locking connectors so it won't be a simple problem of a jack being pulled out.

In comparison, unless you're very methodical and regularly check the recording you've got on your DVR, my guess is the first time you'll find there's a problem is when you get back to the edit suite and start to transfer the files.

Of course, you'd be correct, if there really was nothing you can do if a radio channel goes down, but that's not the case - there's plenty you can do.

You're assuming that I work the same way you do -- which I don't. For the majority of the weddings I shoot, I'm a one-man band. There's no one else to signal to, and since I'm running the main camera, I don't have time to check batteries/connections/etc., or else I'd likely miss my shot.

The way I look at it is that it's a calculated risk. With wireless, I have to worry about range, interference, the venue's permission, etc. With a DVR, those worries are gone. The tradeoff is that I don't hear the audio while recording, and that I have to sync in post. Neither of those is a worry to me, as reliability has been 100% and sync is no big deal.

I'm even thinking about procuring a couple more DVR's with corresponding mics in order to do "stealth" mic'ing close to the officiant/bride/groom, for the purpose of usable backup audio in the highly unlikely event that the other main DVR(s) malfunction.

There are worries with recorders like the Zoom. I have personally experienced the loss of everything on the memory card in my Zoom H4N. Something happened, I never figured out what exactly.

When I used to work in laboratories, I saw instruments more expensive than my house go down from a discharge of static electricity.

When I lost the contents of the card, just like Philip said, I didn't know there was nothing on the card until I went to capture it. And yes, there was something originally on the card. I'm absolutely anal about monitoring my audio. I do a sound check on everything with headphones before the action starts too.

When I use the zoom, although I can't monitor it live, I do a sound check just like all the other audio devices by recording a short file. Then I play it back, listening through headphones. The time I lost everything, I had checked the sound check file, and it was there.

I use my wireless all the time, and I have run into problems with interference with them too. Because I was monitoring the audio, I was able to quickly improvise. Any technology can fail. It's a good practice to always have backup in place.

A true to life case was a wedding in May where the priest walked up to the lectern to "turn on" the Church mic and in all innocence actually switched my transmitter from "audio" to "standby"

Hello Chris!

What I like about the DVR's is the "hold" switch, which deactivates every button on the recorder. Then I tape over the switch, so even if someone tries to mess with it, it's that much less likely that anything will be affected.

I completely understand that the inability to monitor the audio can really bother you . . . I always end up checking my DVR's several times because of the paranoia :)

And always use new batteries. I tested my Zoom H1 when I first got it to see what happend with the recording files using a battery that was almost flat. Before H1 shuts down it will stop the recording and closes the file so no harm done to the already recorded materials.

The folks here who are using the dvrs, are you guys using them by themselves or do you guys mean your are hooking a wired lav mic to them?

The syncing for me is no issue, even with the xha1 and wireless lavs going to it, i am still using dslrs so i will always sync.

There are worries with recorders like the Zoom. I have personally experienced the loss of everything on the memory card in my Zoom H4N. Something happened, I never figured out what exactly.

My camera records to the same SD cards that my Zoom records to, so if a blast of static electricity can take out the audio on the Zoom, then I guess it could take out all of my footage as well. I've never heard of that happening though.

There's a calculated risk with every piece of equipment we use, no matter how expensive or "professional" it is. You just have to figure out what works for you. I use a Sony recorder with a lav mic on the groom's lapel and hook my Zoom H4N into the soundboard or speaker as a backup. That along with my on camera microphones has give me 100% excellent audio quality.

With wireless, I have to worry about range, interference, the venue's permission, etc.

I'm an old school, wireless mic guy. I'm currently using 2 sets of Sony UWP-V1s. Before that, I had Lectrosonics. To dispel fears of drop outs or interference, let me say that I've NEVER had a dropout. Never ever. I'm talking about 3500+ weddings, and maybe 1000 other projects! I love the fact that I can simply drop my footage on the timeline and the 2 sound sources are always synced.

However, I do also use a H4n to capture additional sound sources, but not as a backup.

I am another who cannot shoot without being able to monitor my audio - which means wireless is the only viable option for me. To me, not monitoring audio is like shooting a whole wedding without using the LCD screen or EVF on your camera. If I can't monitor exactly what is being recorded (for example the audio from the 2nd camera) then I assume nothing at all is being recorded.

One thing I just discovered the joys of whilst switching to DSLR's is how liberating it is not being tethered to one camera by headphones. In a recent setup each camera had a Rode Videomic, and the wireless reciever was plugged into a Zoom H4 which stayed in my pocket the whole time. No matter where I went, I could monitor the main audio without being attached via a 4ft headphones cable to a camera on a tripod.

Hey John,

That sounds like an interesting setup, do you put a lav on the groom during the ceremony? Surely the videomics on the cameras aren't close enough to pick up the vows during the ceremony. I'd love to hear more about your setup!

Whilst I use a single wireless mic on the groom and a shotgun mic on my 'A' camera. .. I also try and get a line out of the church's PA system on my 'B' camera. That way all the mixing is done including that of the priest/minister, readings, choir etc and the priest always holds their mic to the bide/groom when reciting the nuptials....... overkill perhaps????

Hey John,

That sounds like an interesting setup, do you put a lav on the groom during the ceremony? Surely the videomics on the cameras aren't close enough to pick up the vows during the ceremony. I'd love to hear more about your setup!

Yes Chris, I have a wireless Lav on the groom and that is what I monitoring via the Zoom H4. The on-camera mics are there for ambience/backup. Sorry, I don't think I made that clear in my first post.

My camera records to the same SD cards that my Zoom records to, so if a blast of static electricity can take out the audio on the Zoom, then I guess it could take out all of my footage as well. I've never heard of that happening though.

There's a calculated risk with every piece of equipment we use, no matter how expensive or "professional" it is. You just have to figure out what works for you. I use a Sony recorder with a lav mic on the groom's lapel and hook my Zoom H4N into the soundboard or speaker as a backup. That along with my on camera microphones has give me 100% excellent audio quality.

I don't know what caused the Zoom to fail, but I threw that card away, figured it wasn't reliable in any device. That time the Zoom was plugged into the sound board at the gig. Maybe the audio guy messed with it. Who knows.

As for static just erasing footage, in the laboratory, static took the ENTIRE INSTRUMENT DOWN and the manufacturer had to send a service engineer to replace several circuit boards. That happened on numerous instruments numerous times. That particular lab is the only one I ever worked in that was carpeted. We also had to wear fluid resistant biohazard clothing. The combo of the clothing and walking across the carpeting generated static electricity. Thankfully, just the card in the Zoom got fried, not the Zoom itself.

We also were especially careful to wear the antistatic wrist device when doing maintenance on the instruments, just like you're told to wear when working on a PC. Modern technology is both powerful, and fragile at the same time. One time on the local TV news they showed footage of an explosion while someone was pumping gas into their car. The cause: static electricity.

Back to audio, I've also had to throw out a hand held microphone. Don't know what happened to it. It came with the wireless kit I bought used. It worked for a while, then went dead, don't know why. It wasn't dropped or anything. Maybe it got plugged wrong, like firewire ports on certain cameras getting fried if you plug in the cable when the camera is on. Don't know. Replaced the microphone. At the gig, I pulled another mic out of my bag. But I knew the microphone was dead due to monitoring the audio. Whatever the cause, power surge, static discharge, operator error, gremlins, monitoring the audio alerted me to the dead microphone.

Don't take anything for granted. Monitor as much as you can. Have as much backup as you can.

Oops, double post. "Magic fingers"