The instructions don't give any suggestions for attaching gels onto the Arri 650 Fresnel light that I have.

I'm thinking about getting a ring that will hold them:

Arri 650 Fresnel Filter Frame 531620 - Arri 650 Watt Tungsten Fresnel Light 531600 (http://www.filmandvideolighting.com/ar650frfifr5.html)

but concerned that might put them so close that they melt, wondering if rosco filters survive being that close to the light.

And for that reason I'm wondering if I should order some wire scrims for when I want to diffuse the lamp, or whether it's okay to put the diffusion materials that I already have in the above frame right next to the light.

Oh, and one more question while I have y'all here: The manual doesn't say not to move the lamp while it's turned on... can I safely make adjustments to the position of these lights without destroying the bulb, or do I have to turn it off and wait for it to cool down to adjust the position?

Generally the way we do this is much more low tech than what you're thinking of: you simply take some clothespins (that we cleverly call C47s for some reason. . .something to do with the military, I heard) and use them to clip the gels to the barn doors on these lights.

Unless this is some special new technology you can move the light just fine while on, in terms of swiveling it or tilting it. Might be safer if you're going to move the whole stand to turn off. I've heard these should NOT be operated pointed straight up or down. . .somehow damages the bulb or something over time.

Medium sized crocodile clips are also commonly used. They work well if you've got more than one gel fitted on the light. Don't used plastic clips, they'll just melt.

Your gels will last longer on the barndoors and the diffusion is more effective,

Hi Tom,

I see you're in SF. I'm up in Marin but do a lot of shooting all around the Bay Area.

As for you're question regarding gels, don't waste your money on the holders. You can go buy a hole box of C47's for $5 and you'll have a lifetime supply of gel holders. It's pretty much standard practice. Rosco gels are specifically made to be able to handle the heat. I've never had one melt on me and I've had them with Lowel Tota's which get a lot hotter than your Arri 650.

If all you need to do is cut the light definitely get some scrims or better yet get a few dimmers. Dimmers work best except be aware that the color temp changes as you lower the wattage.

Arri's are pretty solid lights so I wouldn't worry about adjusting the light when it's on. after all you can't possibly set up your light without having it on. So if all your doing is aiming and adjusting the light nor worries. But as a generally safety practice I usually turn off lights before picking up stands and making a move. Can't tell if something is going to get banged when moving and it could always pop globe. And again as a safety precaution always yell out when moving equipment. You don't have to wait for the light to cool down though. Just make sure you use your grip gloves on. The lights do get rally hot.

As an aside, what types of projects are you working on? If you're interested in making Indie movies there's a great film coop in the Bay Area. If you're interested let me know.

-Garrett

Just some urban trivia, they're called "C47s" because that was the original part number in the Panavision catalogue back in the day (like the 1950s dude). :)

An old timer once told me on set that in "the old days" (ye ol' film days) commercial productions used to call clothespins C47's and pad the budgeted price appropriately so when accounting would look over they budget, they would be just as likely to to put $10k up for CP47's as they would ARRI650s thus affording the company men a few dollars to spend on cocaine.

That said, I've also heard several other versions of why my favourite set tool is called a C47 or CP47 but, this is the one I'll leave right here.

I swear I heard something about the military having that as their official name for that item.


If you push the gels a little more "inside" the barn doors, that is closer to the lens/light, instead of puffed out away from the light/doors, you get a little more control over the light shape with diffusion gel.

30mm foldback paper clips, ( silver handles, black spring/grip ) work well and resist being flicked off by the gels if they flap in wind. Glove your fingers though, otherwise your fingerprints may get brandmarks burned into them.

There's about 5 different stories of why they got the name C47's. The military one was explained to me that that was the number on the bin they use to be stored in. I also heard a variation on the budget thing that was attributed to the tax boys not letting gaffers write off "clothes pins" so they called them C47 clamps to make them sound more official. I've also heard that they were #C47 in the Acme catalogue. In any case they are pretty much found on every set.

-Garrett

My experience with moving halogen lights while lit is seriously different --- I managed the photo studio at a large newspaper for several years, and one of my biggest budget-wasters was having to buy replacement lamps because the photographers would constantly bump or jar the lights and blow the lamps. The halogen lamps, in particular, are very hot and compact filaments and they are very fragile when lit. Yes, you can carefully adjust a lit lamp if you can with out jarring it, but a good bump and you're out large bucks and at an inconvenient time. I marked all the fixtures to remind the photographers to TURN OFF BEFORE ADJUSTING but, well, some of 'em couldn't read.....

Wow Battle that's interesting. We're constantly adjusting lights when on. No major bumps or jarring ever really occurs but we routinely raise, lower, and aim lights while on. I couldn't imagine having to strike every time we needed to adjust it. Also, I've had scene's where we've had to walk with the light or for bigger lights have them on a dolly to follow the talent.

Do you recall what lamps specifically you were using? Were they lights for stills photography or motion pictures?

-Garrett

@Garrett, we had a variety of Mole-Richardson lights made for movie work, as they were durable and even our ham-handed crew would have a hard time abusing them. As to the lamps, some were tubular halogen--don't recall the specific codes, as I am retired and they are not available to me---and some were bi-pin, burn-base-down types used in some 8" fresnels. All were vulnerable to shock when lit. Ordinary focusing or gentle manipulation were ok, but our folks could always be depended upon to leave a stand lock unfastened and drop a head, or to run the stand over a cable, or something. The lamps were, as I said, a significant part of the studio budget. We used hot-lights for illustration work, mostly...people got strobes.

That said, I think I only blew one lamp in this way in my whole career, and I did a lot of studio work. If you're careful, halogen lamps are fine. But they are, as I said, fragile while lit.

The instructions don't give any suggestions for attaching gels onto the Arri 650 Fresnel light that I have.

I'm thinking about getting a ring that will hold them:

Arri 650 Fresnel Filter Frame 531620 - Arri 650 Watt Tungsten Fresnel Light 531600 (http://www.filmandvideolighting.com/ar650frfifr5.html)

but concerned that might put them so close that they melt, wondering if rosco filters survive being that close to the light.

And for that reason I'm wondering if I should order some wire scrims for when I want to diffuse the lamp, or whether it's okay to put the diffusion materials that I already have in the above frame right next to the light.

Oh, and one more question while I have y'all here: The manual doesn't say not to move the lamp while it's turned on... can I safely make adjustments to the position of these lights without destroying the bulb, or do I have to turn it off and wait for it to cool down to adjust the position?

Hi Tom,

I have the same light and filters you mentioned just arrive last week.and here is what I did
buy a barn door. then use clothespin to clip your gels it works.

i move the lamps even when turned on, the bulb is housed inside- no problems moving it.

hope it helps.

I wouldn't physically move the light around with the lamp switched on when rigging, but making adjustments like flooding, spotting and setting the barndoors for the correct cut is usually done with the lamp on.

It's vibrations or shocks which will shorten the life when moving the light around. That's not to say you can't do it, because you may need a light to be moved during a shot for an effect and battery powered tungsten lights are moved, but it can risk a shorter life.

I had understood they exerted 47 pounds of pressure. I recently heard somebody call them C-74's, and I corrected him. He told me that when you take off the spring and turn it around, so that the long (typically handle) part was the jaws, and the short (typically jaws) part was the handle, it was stronger, and then because it was backwards it was a C-74. Clever, I thought.

I'd never heard that about them being stronger reversed, but I heard to use the reversed ones to remove hot scrims from the lights (like little tweezers)

Good advice here... before I read these replies I came to the same idea myself of using background material clamps to hold gels onto the barndoors. Wooden clothespins sound even better.

Before I got the Arri light I was messing around with normal edison-socket 500w photoflood bulbs. Those were incredibly fragile, and literally every time I would try to make any movements while turned on they would instantly pop. But my understanding is they filaments just run too hot in those bulbs; that form factor is designed for a few hundred watts max and shoving twice the power through is a recipe for disaster.

The Arri GY9.5 bulbs seem better constructed.

I had understood they exerted 47 pounds of pressure. I recently heard somebody call them C-74's, and I corrected him. He told me that when you take off the spring and turn it around, so that the long (typically handle) part was the jaws, and the short (typically jaws) part was the handle, it was stronger, and then because it was backwards it was a C-74. Clever, I thought.

Reversing the spring would actually decrease the clamping pressure. It's a simple lever, the longer the fulcrum arm is on the pressure side, the more travel but less pressure. Simple physics.

If you are gauging the force by how much you have to press on the opposite end, it is inverse. More force on the opposite end to open up the clip means less force on the other end where it is clipping.

-Garrett

I have seen an Italian light called Cosmolight that has gel clips included on it's barn doors, kinda genius & they work great. I would like to buy Arri lights but for life of me I don't understand why a well established company like Arri has not come up with gel clips built onto their barn doors like the Cosmolight.

Currently I use little metal clips you buy at a stationary store, I've always thought to myself that using wooden clothing pegs looks very unprofessional, it just shows you once a trend starts people forget that something looks stupid.

Nicholas, I can't imagine anyone considering a clothespin unprofessional. They are cheap and expendable (hence the use of the term "expendables") and unlike metal clips, they don't get hot. Besides, filmmakers should be less concerned with the appearance of equipment and crew then that of the picture. Function over fashion, baby.

Unprofessional???? It's like an industry standard thing EVERYWHERE. I believe the Arri kits even come with a bag of them! The light manufacturer WANTS you to use them!

The wooden clothes pegs are pretty much universal and have been for many years.

Although I do use electrical crocodile clips because I end up packing a number of gels together and the wooden pegs you get here these days aren't up to the job. These also work with the larger lights, especially if they're outdoors. There used be more beefy Russian wooden pegs which I haven't seen for a while..

Another name for them is "bullets," so called because Gaffers and PA's are sometimes seen with dozens of them clipped around their belt/shirttails/etc like Pancho Villa.

They can be used for so many things. Buy a bunch.

the clothespin are barely noticiable specially in dark situations.

I don't know if there's still any question about the professionalism of clothespins/C47's/bullets, but if it helps any...be assured they are the weapon of choice on every feature and TV show.

No doubt in my mind that they are the industry standard and that they work effectively but it's in my personal taste to avoid using them, I film weddings and presentation of my equipment is as important as getting great footage - personally I think they look stupid.

On feature films and other productions, the retaining clip looks tends to be less important than what works and is cost effective. Use whatever works for you in your environment.

No doubt in my mind that they are the industry standard and that they work effectively but it's in my personal taste to avoid using them, I film weddings and presentation of my equipment is as important as getting great footage - personally I think they look stupid.

I couldn't imagine a 1K Fresnel would look very good in a wedding setting either. But for me, C47s (or clothespins) are in everyone of my equipment boxes. You also never know when you'll need to use them to pin back a bit of wardrobe that isn't behaving.

-Garrett

I don't do wedding gigs, but I do work with "new to video" clients. Occasionally one of them will comment on my clothespins, and I'll tell them it's not a clothespin, it's a C-47. If it were holding a t-shirt on a cotton line it'd be a clothespin. This is a highly technical video instrument.

It gets a laugh.

When I was a wedding photographer back in the film-only days, I carried clothespins, safety pins, a stapler, double-sided tape, gaff tape, and duct tape, and pretty much used them at every wedding. I've stapled many a member of the groom's party into their rented tuxedos when a seam split, an adjuster malfunctioned, or a zipper jammed.

The important thing is to use what works.

Martin