I am looking for a recorder about the size of the Olympus WS-700 Olympus WS-700M Digital Voice Recorder (Grey) 140152 B&H Photo but with manual level control. The AGC only function on the WS-700 seriously limits its usefulness. It gains up during silence causing audible noise and it also does a pump surge when sound begins again. A friend of mine has a perfect description for this; he says "it makes his teeth itch." Does anyone make a good small recorder with manual level control?

Zoom H1

Tascam DRO7

Those are both great recorders but they are about the size of a bus compared to the Olympus WS-700. The nice thing about the WS-700 is that it is easy to place on someone because it is so small.

Maybe Tascam PR-10? It's a similar form factor to the Olympus and fairly new.
Or the TEAC VR-10?

Thanks Jay, The PR-10 looks like it meets 'spec'. I will check it out.

Tascam DR-03

Sony ICD-SX700

Olympus ls-11

Hi,

If avalible, I would suggest a minidisc recorder with high quality shotgun (or whatever you need) mic or optical in as although MD is old it is reliable and produces very high quality sound and with a 1GB disc it records for hours! Also, yes it does have manual control.

:)

Zaxcom ZFR200
Nagra SD
Sonosax MiniR82

just a thought or three

Another vote for the Tascam DR-03. Small and inexpensive.

Jim,

And Eric, with all due respect,

I'm going to offer a dissenting opinion here.


MD is old it is reliable and produces very high quality sound and with a 1GB disc it records for hours! Also, yes it does have manual control.

I can't tell you how many recording failures I had with minidisc... first machine was a major brand, although I don't recall which one; second machine was a Sony. Failures on both of them, with two different brands of discs. I returned the first machine and traded up (I thought) to the Sony. Eventually "repaired" the sony using a three-pound sledge hammer... that cured me of the temptation to use it again and possibly get burned again. By comparison, I have never had a failure with a RAM-based recorder.

Many of the Sony machines did not allow you to change recording gain once you were actually recording. So if you saw that you were starting to clip, there was absolutely nothing you could do about it. (I seem to recall that Sony may have corrected this terrible design, toward the end of the minidisc craze. But I know many Sony machines had this issue, which caused many people not to buy Sony.)

Also, AFAIK, all minidisc uses data compression... pretty good for its time, but compression nevertheless. Many RAM-based recorders allow recording in uncompressed WAV format, some of them with sampling rates up to 96kbps and bit depths of 24 bits per channel. That is audio quality better than the CD standard, and certainly better than any lossy compressed format (such as minidisc uses).

Finally, if size matters, any minidisc will, of course, be much bigger than the WS-700 and much bigger than any of the RAM-based recorders that many of us have suggested.

Just my opinion... but nevertheless an opinion based on facts.

Zaxcom ZFR200
Nagra SD
Sonosax MiniR82

just a thought or three

I agree about the second two (will probably get a Nagra SD myself), but I'm not so sure about the first.

Also, AFAIK, all minidisc uses data compression... pretty good for its time, but compression nevertheless.

The Sony MZ-RH1 and MZ-M200 both could record in LinearPCM. Isn't that an uncompressed format?

The Sony MZ-RH1 and MZ-M200 both could record in LinearPCM. Isn't that an uncompressed format?

Yes, you're absolutely correct, it is indeed uncompressed. Sony's website says the MZ-RH1 can record PCM at a sampling rate of 44.1 kHz, which is the same as audio CDs (but less than the 96 kHz that can be achieved with some flash-based recorders). It does not specify bit depth, but an article in Wikipedia states that it's 16 bits/channel, the same as audio CDs (but less than the 24 bits/channel available with some flash-based machines).

Sony's website clearly states tha the MZ-M200 can record PCM at 44.1 kHz, 16 bits/channel, equivalent to audio CDs

Frankly, I quit following the minidisc format after losing a few irreplaceable master recordings. Apparently Sony, while behind the curve, did eventually upgrade the recording capabilities by adding several new audio formats.

At any rate, my original conclusion still stands. Both of these machines are bigger than a small flash-based recorder, and both of them are limited to 44.1kHz/16bit data rate. For that matter, both of them are discontinued; in fact I honestly don't know whether there are any minidisc machines currently in production.

There was a time when I really wanted to use MD... it was relatively portable for its time, and it seemed like such an elegant solution. But time marches on and I fear MD is no longer SOTA.

I use the Sony PCM D50, a great recorder but with a couple of faults. No XLR input and the built in microphones are so sensitive that makes it almost unusable in most recording situations, unless it is on a stand in a wind free zone.

I have an adaptor cable that converts my XLR cable to mini plug so I can use the Rode NTG2 mike without any problem, however, I guess any mike that requires 48 Phantom power would be no go unless it had its own power supply.

Greg,

This is a fair point. OP, after Greg's points here I should think a more up to date RAM recorder would be better, as although I have not had any problems with MD recording. It seems a sensible decision to get a more reliable recorder.

You can get a 64gb ipod touch and use a iphone tie clip mic or powered shotgun mic to get CD quality audio. There are good apps avalible that allow you to adjust gain etc while recording and get HQ wav recording or theres the blue mikey 30 pin connector mic for a top-pocket job. So 64gb recorder is not bad if you get a 3rd Gen for $250-$275

:)

I have to admit I was quite enamored with MD when they first came out. It seemed as if finally a solution to field recording had arrived. Then, after having some problems, I kept wondering, "Why doesn't someone modify an MD machine to record on memory chips?"

I really could not break myself of the desire to record more with the MD machine(s) and kept trying. Those recordings that were successful sounded surprisingly good to me (although in retrospect the original version of ATRAC was not as good as WAV, or high bitrate OGG, etc.).

But after driving five hours to record a two hour gig, checking the MD at the end of the session, and driving another five hours back home, only to discover that the disc wouldn't play (on the same machine) when I got home... that's when I knew it was time for me to retire that technology.

Eric, what choice of sampling frequencies and bitrates to you have with the iPods?

Almost forgot - very small recorder with the right specs = Sonosax MiniR82 (http://www.sonosax.ch/recorders/minir82/minir82_index.html).

It's the size of a pen and very high quality.

Records 16 or 24 bit anywhere from 44.1 to 192kHz.

Records 8 tracks on HD and can mirror 2 tracks to a CF card.

All on a device not that much larger that an iPhone.

Based on the "Features" list on their website, that looks like a very interesting combination of features.

It's not at all the size of a pen, though... although it may be a similar length. In fact, I can't find the actual dimensions on the website or in the .pdf manual... that strikes me as rather odd.

Based on the "Features" list on their website, that looks like a very interesting combination of features.

It's not at all the size of a pen, though... although it may be a similar length. In fact, I can't find the actual dimensions on the website or in the .pdf manual... that strikes me as rather odd.

Sorry - yes length of a pen, rather than "size" - but I did explain it whan I compared it to an iPhone.

I guess it's about the same size as two iPhones stacked on top of each other. It's a tad thicket than an AA battery if you look at the pictures in the manual.

So, regarding the TASCAM PR-10 and DR-03;
Does anyone know of a difference other than the mics?
Battery life? Reliability? Anything to put one above the other?
Buying two. Initially for use in wedding; groom and priest with giant squids.

Many thanks.

I think the PR10 is quite OK and it will provide plug-in power for lavaliere mics.
Just be sure you record @ 48khz or your sound will be out of sync with your camera/timeline.
If you can't afford (recording media wise) 48khz: first convert the audio to that in post production (mp3 to WAV@48khz).

I haven't used the PR10 for all day long events but sometimes it makes sense to let it record for hours and hours to capture all the audio.

T