Ok so film in hd, cams hd, computor monitior hd, tv hd, bluray player hd, clients no hd????? why am i doing this hd thing, worklow good and i save hard copies sd and hd for future but not one client last year this year wants bluray!!!!! is it worth it?? past five years no one has come back and wanted a copy of there day with the bluray copy i keep for them , is it worth all the cost ive incurred or?? steve

Same here, never been asked for one and no one has every ticked the option for one, even a booking I took yesterday doesn't want BluRay.

I have several clients who ask for BluRay and it is great to provide it for them. Beyond that, I utilize online sites such as Vimeo to post my videos in HD, so they can shine there, display any same day edits or love stories at the reception on an HD projector, archive in HD for future technology (Internet TV is becoming increasingly popular), show my clients HD video in our meetings, and pull 1920x1080 still images from the HD video to post on my site.

To top it off, it just looks good and it's all about exceeding the clients needs. If we don't step up to the plate and blow the videos out of the water, then the bride might as well invest in a consumer camera and tripod to get the same low quality.

Be proud of your product and strive to impress yourself. That will constantly cause you to improve and appreciate your work.

Hi Steve

I have exactly the same issue!! Bride's seldom know what a BD player is although the hubby has a fair idea!! I have never been asked for HD and just to get the opinion "from the horse's mouth" I posted a topic on the bridal forum where I advertise. Comments ranged from "I can't tell the difference" to "couldn't care less" and the only semi-encouraging remark was "hubby might watch it in HD" We all know that the hubby watches the wedding DVD maybe once and only because of obligation!! It's really a girl thing and the girls are more concerned with the content (as they should be) than your brilliant shots!!!

I was shooting weddings in 2008 with a 4:3 camera (don't laugh please) and realised that brides might want 16:9 ..not cos it was a better format but probably cos it gives them a better view of their wedding. Could I find an SD camera with 16:9 ??? Nope!!! All the decent cameras had gone straight to HD!!!

I actually could have done the very same job as I'm doing right now with an SD camera but had to buy an HD purely to get widescreen. My current HMC80 have an SD mode BUT I suspect it's purely a downconverter in the camera so I shoot in HD and have to go thru all the hassle of supplying a DVD and rendering out to SD!!!

The bottom line is even if the bride has an HD TV (most have) and even a BD player (few have those) it pretty certain that Grandma and Grandpa still have an old CRT TV as well as the parents so a DVD is still more desireable. We have to remember that brides are only really interested in memories and content and technical issues fall by the wayside.

I do keep my HD files on drives and edit in HD so if called on, I can render out in HD later. Bluray players in our part of the world are not popular and maybe we will see media players replacing them...for under $100 here you can get a really nice media player that will handle just about everything and a 1280x720 MP4 video absolutely blows away an SD one..... maybe we need to add the cost of either a mediaplayer or BD player to our packages?????? In my case, a media player would be cheaper and the files are far quicker to render too.

Chris

Very similar to Chris's experience I only went to HD to get widescreen, no one had every mentioned HD, not even my business clients. The picture quality from Panasonic DV200s is superb but it is only 4:3

I suppose I could provide a BluRay disc as part of my product but I'd either have to do it at my expense, or jack the price up to cover it. I prefer not to insist clients take something they don't want so I do offer it at a very reasonable price but as I said, no takers.
I don't really see the point in transcoding for my benefit nor for archiving. I have a loft full of VHS going back years as well as all camera tapes (SVHS - Hi8 - DV - DVcam). I've had a rare occasion when I've gone back to use one.

If I ever get a request for a previous project - as I did yesterday, one from 2008 - it's always for DVD. I keep and ISO of every project to replicate from that. I also keep a trimmed copy of original quality PremPro project so I guess if I get requests for BluRay I can retrieve them and burn one from there.

I'm starting to fill the loft with HardDrives now.

Now that I'm shooting with a large chipped camera, and the HD I shoot looks amazing, I'm going to push bluray.

I'm going to offer it for a very low price to people who signed up for my regular packages, and I may likely do it for the cost of the media on occasion, if necessary, just to raise demand for it, and for promotional purposes.

Whe friends and relatives see it, they WILL be impressed. My old SD videos look pretty bad compared to my present stuff, and I myself can barely stand SD anymore, as even the networks broadcast everything in HD. We don't even have cable, and even PBS is in HD mostly, and it just looks stunning.

If I have to I will purchase an inexpensive BR player and give it to them as part of the deal. I don't care. I just want to show this great footage off, which is the only way I can raise prices, which I must do to make up for the added time involved in post production.

Jeff I see that you are using the Sony method. Take a loss to grab the market you want.

It seems that Sony made a loss on every PS3 machine they sold because they fitted them with an unnecessary BluRay player just to get BluRay into peoples homes and secure the largest market share of High Definition players. They were still smarting over loosing the home videotape market that they are prepared to do what it takes to grab the high ground in format wars.

I know how you must be so excited by the quality of product you are able to supply that you feel that people must want it but I don't subscribe to driving up the cost of a product. Then maybe your market is not so sensitive to price as mine is. I do make the offer but so far absolutely no interest.

Just a note on the free give away players.
A friend of mine, someone I know who use to be in this business, did that when DVD players dropped down to less than £20 here in UK. He bought a batch from a supermarket and gave one away with every order but gave up the idea when some couples came back to him when the machines broke down. He obviously hadn't passed on the shop receipts so they expected him to honour the warranty.

If you stand before you client with your arms folded and with an expressionless face mumble almost unintelligibly, "You don't want to buy a BluRay do you?", I would expect that you wont sell many BluRay discs. If you make the effort to show the difference, your responses from brides will be different. There are some that don't want to provide BluRay for various reasons so they do an amazingly good job of sabotaging their lame sales 'effort'. I have discussed this issue with far too many couples to buy the "nobody wants BluRay" argument. That's a cover story for a preset bias or lack of knowledge and/or tools to produce BluRay discs easily.

I show the difference between BluRay and DVD discs to clients. I offer BluRay at an additional charge and almost half buy BluRay also. So sorry George, I'm not losing money, I'm making MORE money by offering BluRay in addition to DVD.

If you use a decent authoring program, you can output either BluRay of DVD with ease. You don't have to redo anything; just select which type of disc you are outputting - that's all there is to it. With the right tools, the "costs more" argument doesn't fly. I suppose if you look around hard enough, you can find those who still think VHS is the only way to fly - Who wants any of those round 'spinny things.'

I also offer clients their video on a hard disc in addition to DVD and/or BluRay discs because I don't believe in the long term reliability of optical media but that's a whole different discussion.

Here most of my customers have nice HD televsions, some plasmas are sprinkled in there.

You misunderstand my aim. It is not to drive up prices, not at all. Instead, I wish to recoup my expenses and to be paid for time I am spending in post. I am now edting HD footage, and conversion time alone is ages.

My prices now are too low even for SD packages, as I had to drop them when the economy went south. I can now deliver a superior product, and it is quite fair to expect to be paid for it, don't you agree? This is a way I can now restore my pricing to a reasonalble rate.

In addition, this is the best method for self promotion, to deliver the best possible product.

And besides, it just looks SO much better! I want to share it with my customers!

Good points all, Jim.

George, I plan to inivite customers to my home, or visit them if I must, and show them the difference beforehand, and it will certainly be an effective sales technique. Just as Jim is doing.

Will I really have to give away players? Highly unlikely. Is that my plan? Not really. My plan is to sell bluray, and on a case by case basis I want to get it out there as best I can. On occasion I may have to go the extra mile to make that happen, but my point is I'm willing to do what it takes to make it happen.

There are some that will not want bluray if it only costs an extra fifty cents, those are not who I will be trying to sell.

I am offering Blu-ray standard. If they don't want it, I'll give them another DVD -- there's only a small cost difference between the two media, and very negligible time to make a Blu-ray. My Adobe workflow easily allows the same edited project to go out to either DVD or Blu-ray. I don't buy the "costs too much" thing either.

Corey, your tactic is actually a good one, and I may consider it. I have a lot to learn about the process, as I haven't burned a single BR disc yet, but your attitude about the whole thing is refreshing.

Bravo to you Jim but I don't know what you base your assumption on that I just -in your words -stand before you client with your arms folded and with an expressionless face mumble almost unintelligibly, "You don't want to buy a BluRay do you?"

I suspect Jim was referring to videographers in general...not you specifically George. There are just so many that are not ready to produce bluray, and instead of just stating that they instead knock it not or pronounce it as not feasible.

There are certainly areas where bluray is uncommon, probably most areas this is true.

I know many of my clients have HD sets, and part of it is the "youngsters" here getting married already have a house and the latest electronics. I've been in their homes, and they are usually living together in a nicer home than mine before they are married.

Bluray really started taking off in the US this last Christmas season, with players available for under $100.

The vast majority of the population has no bluray, and many cannot afford the discs, people are out of work and suffering everywhere, but my customers are employed and seem to be immune so far from much of the woes affecting the rest of the population, though the price shopping for video is much more common than ever.

Funny story...

My main client... I've been pushing Blu-Ray and they're just not interested... So I got to thinking. And I realize that Digital set top boxes didn't start to get any traction at all until they became the default and just started coming without customers asking for them. Color TVs didn't become ubiquitous until they just stopped offering B&W. So I just went out and bought a Blu-Ray player and gave it to the client and started making the default delivery package a DVD/Blu-Ray combo pack the way Disney does. I don't even ask; that's what they get. It cost $79 for the BD player and an extra $2 per delivery pack.

So I go there a couple of weeks ago and look at their beautiful Plasma HDTV with the BD player I bought for them... and the nice composite cable connecting the two.

I suspect Jim was referring to videographers in general...not you specifically George. There are just so many that are not ready to produce bluray, and instead of just stating that they instead knock it not or pronounce it as not feasible.



That's right; I have witnessed it with my own eyes as well as hearing about it from couples who talked with other videographers. My comment had nothing to do with you George except for your bringing the topic up.

That is funny, is a very sad sort of way! You certainly cannot be blamed for not trying, Adam.

So I go there a couple of weeks ago and look at their beautiful Plasma HDTV with the BD player I bought for them... and the nice composite cable connecting the two.

I guess your next purchase for them needs to be a HDMI cable. ;-)[/QUOTE]

The HDMI cable came out of my bag and onto their setup within seconds, trust me. It is now set up properly. I now check it every time I go in. I will check it again tonight. I also make sure it is the Blu Rays that go into the player, not the DVDs. I have a sign on the player that says "Use The Blu-Rays!"

Everyone great comments, ye i suppose i will carry on doing my hard drive copies of bluray, i just hope in the future one of my clients rings me for a bluray copy of their day and i look forward to that day in waiting, By the way without reverting back to a SD camcorder, they are bloody cheap and tempting!!! no steve dont i say!!!! hehe...

Did you tell your clients that you'd be keeping a HDD copy in case they want a Blu-ray Disc in the future?

Is it in small print or something you have made important in your advertising, and during the consultation and delivery?

If they don't know, or forget, about you keeping a library of the HD footage, and your ability to provide the Wedding on Blu-ray a few years down the line, would they even consider or know that such was possible?

It might even be worth contacting your Clients, at least before they move house, to remind them that they can order a Blu-ray.

Just thinking laterally is all.

Certainly, after watching one of my rugby games on DVD, it is actually worth watching it again on Blu-ray,

Hi Guys

Yes, I WOULD prefer my clients to watch in HD!! On my website I offer BD too so there is no negative comments like "I'll do BluRay if you REALLY insist on it"
Sadly the market here for players is small so the price is still high!! The only people that have players it seems are Sony TV owners because Sony gave a free player away with the TV!! Gosh I wish we could get players for $79!!! More like closer to $300 here compared to DVD Players as low as $30!!!

Media here is also very costly due to the demand being low ...at present 10 x the cost of a blank DVD

I watch my weddings on my own media player and the only word is WOW!! I take the player to brides and they are super impressed...."It so clear!!!" Then they order DVD's !!!

I keep HD copies on the drives too so I can provide brides with HD anytime....I would guess that the only real option to keep things enconomically viable here would be a package of DVD's and a media player with the footage preloaded as an "all-in-one" SD/HD package.

Although clients do have an HD TV I still have them with CRT TV's ever though we are shutting down analogue TV transmissions. Our people must be slow on the uptake but it will pay to be ready when they eventually get there!!!

Chris

Our people must be slow on the uptake but it will pay to be ready when they eventually get there!!!

This is another reason I want to be involved in making Blu-rays -- when (and not if, but when) they become the dominant means of physical media distribution, I don't want to be scrambling to adapt. If I've been doing it all along, then it'll just be business as usual.

Maybe by then I'll be learning how to produce in UHD ;)

Three brief points.

1 My local branch of Blockbuster, one of the largest film rental companies in the UK, tell me they now get as many copies of new releases in BD as in regular DVD. A company like that has no interest in serving a non-existent market nor of creating a new one. They simply service demand.

2 If Henry had waited for people to demand a cheap, mass-produced car we'd not be driving Ford cars. I'm not comparing BD to Ford, merely giving you a marketing example.

3 If you wait until all your clients have BD players a) someone else will be fulfilling their desires and b) as Corey and Chris write, you'll still be honing your BD authoring skills.

I accept everyone else's rationale and practice without negative comment but we shoot with EX1Rs and edit in true HD so the relatively low cost of extra equipping has led us to include a BD copy and "future-proof" our product.

Did you tell your clients that you'd be keeping a HDD copy in case they want a Blu-ray Disc in the future?

Is it in small print or something you have made important in your advertising, and during the consultation and delivery?

If they don't know, or forget, about you keeping a library of the HD footage, and your ability to provide the Wedding on Blu-ray a few years down the line, would they even consider or know that such was possible?

It might even be worth contacting your Clients, at least before they move house, to remind them that they can order a Blu-ray.

Just thinking laterally is all.

Certainly, after watching one of my rugby games on DVD, it is actually worth watching it again on Blu-ray,

With the initial booking they are asked do they require bluray or standard definition dvd!! They are then told further down the line in the future if they require a bluray copy then please ring. They are told everything is filmed in HD... But the point i picked up on is i do not actually right that down on the booking form and invoice so good point sir...Anyways im ready when there is a big mad scramble....

Good points Phillip...

Interesting discussion guys, I couldn't help noticing that in this very small sampling of posts, most of the people outside of the U.S. weren't seeing wide adoption of Blu-Ray, while people within the U.S. seemed to have more luck. Could that be an overall trend? Perhaps there's a slower adoption rate outside of the U.S. or maybe it's just that the U.S. is more accepting of Blu-Ray.

Also I have a feeling that if you're in a more tech savvy area, you're more likely to see higher adoption rates. Jim Snow for example is smack dab in the middle of Silicon Valley, so I'd expect his clientele to have a higher adoption rate. I wonder if there's a higher adoption rate of Blu-Ray in Singapore and Tokyo vs. Sydney and Beijing.

Just speculating on my part, so let me know if you think I'm off my rocker, but I grew up in Silicon Valley and ended up traveling a lot for my career and I've always found it very interesting to see how technologies are adopted/rejected in different parts of the world.

I wonder if the slow uptake of Blu-Ray is part of a bigger trend of media consumption moving away from the traditional 'living room' or 'home theatre' setup and towards laptops, iPhones and Youtube?

Maybe in the not too distant future we'll be presenting the videos to the bride pre-loaded on an iPod touch? (complete with custom-designed skin and a free cable for them to connect to to their HDTV!) I think when the iPod & other similar devices are capable of supporting full HD playback over HDMI, this might become a possibility.

Im siding with john here i think especially in england, everytime i have gone to book someone and do viewing, they have laptop and ipad ready. then i look at the tv and dvd player! awful!!!! not high tech but other stuff is. Mmmm....Maybe just maybe.

Definately was never the talking point of the day here on our West Coast...People went mad here for the IPad2 and IPhone 4 and scrambled to get them!!! One guy camped outside the shop for 3 days to be first in line.... Our "tech" stores unfortunately don't seem to push sales either and the only time BluRay is mentioned is when the TV manuafacturer is giving then away with a TV sale..... Then again our public certainly never went "Apple crazy" when 3D TV's were released!!!

I'm certainly not "anti-blueray" at all..it's just that there is no demand but when it does start (unless we start moving in another direction in HD media) at least my weddings are, like Steve's, shot in HD and edited in HD so making a BD copy for a bride is no issue at all.

Chris

Nice one Chris, you have to be ready for the big kick off!!! If bluray takes off im ready , you are ready !!but clients ready!!! I agree with John and your comments, i pad ,iphone media push its going that way, i think people will soon just plug in their phone or pad to the tv and play a movie film whatever, its happening now... High tech is coming i already have bookings due to the fact that i send their wedding trailer to their mobile phone! they love it. Also lately people have booked me by seeing my trailers on their phone from my website.
Soon we will all be able to pay, play, and do anything on our phones!!! Even myself at the moment, its all mobile, laptop,
A recent documentry on tv, was about just going to a shop counter and you pay the bill with your phone being scanned by the cashier, its as simple as that...
With regard to us videographers i can see the bride now saying, just e-mail me my film or upload to my ipad in a certain way, they just plug pad into a tv or projector and away they go, everything quick no hassle done... Thats the way its going, people may say what about the old days bla bla bla, but im all for ease!!!! Bring it on...

I have been offering Bluray weddings since 2007. At that time, the burner was $350 and a blank disk is $25. Now the burner is about $100 and a blank white BD is $5. BluRay player is less than $100 and people with PS3 can play BD. It's not an excuse. It's one way to separate my business from competitors.

As Taky's post indicates, there are two aspects to the whole question of offering blu-ray as an option, the technical and the marketing.

Unless you're still recording in SD (and there's nothing wrong with that) the technical aspect is one of when you make the plunge ie when you need to fulfill a demand from your clients.

The marketing aspect is expressed by Taky and is a matter of being prepared for the demand but in the meantime using that preparedness as a marketing tool against your competitors.

The people who face the biggest challenge must surely be those for whom a change to BD would mean re-quipping to down camera level. On the other hand at least they have the experience of all of us who've made the change - one occasion when being first wasn't necessarily the wrong thing not to be.

I don't get much HD request by customers back in 2007 and 2008. But for the past few years, there were lots of clients asking for it. Some specified before meeting up is if we offer HD output in BluRay. I'm sure all of us here are tech enough wanting to view videos online, streaming.. but for the majority of customers, deliver a nicely packaged product is the way to go, and the way for them to "show off".

Here's my BluRay and DVD packaging =)

BluRay Case Insert Template for Download | L.A. Color Blog (http://lacoloronline.com/blog/?10066-BluRay-Case-Insert-Template-for-Download)

Starting from 2011, we give all our clients a HD version in Bluray. Free of charge. This has many advantages. First the couple that may not own a Bluray player, it's certain that they will have one in the future. Second is that we are even more competitive, since not only many colleagues started only recently to give the HD option, but they also charge a good amount of money for it. Now that the PCs (or Macs) are fast enough to process HD with no problems, it's easy to give away the goods at no extra cost. The couple may not be able to watch it right away, but they will appreciate the freebie! -:)

Do youguys have any unstable playback issue with blue-ray disc? I heard that , unlike DVD , blue-ray disc made in computer burner is not that of a good quality that playback is not stable. I'm just little bit cautious that giving the blueray option to the customer would lead to the complaint from them.
Is there any issue when if you put the diskcover paper on the disk?

To my experience there are two possibilities. a) The disc wont work at all and b) it will play perfectly. The first scenario has to do with cheap players that the companies dont release a firmware update for proper disc support. We always recommend a PS3. It may be more expensive but its the best BD player with lots of updates and it's also an amazing games console. :) The grooms love the game part. As for the covers, we always use printable discs. At the price of 2,5 Euros for a printable, there is simply no excuse.

For all the BD we authored since 2007, never have 1 single case of problem reported by the customers. I always use TDK BD-R

Thanks for the comforting information. Some 'purist' says non-production made blueray discs are not stable and that is why apple doesn't support the format yet...

If anyone here uses Vegas, please see my thread http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-happens-vegas/496357-dvda-wants-recompress-hd-video.html and offer your thoughts, thanks.

I've been toying with this problem for 8 hours since posting, and no one seems to have anything to offer yet.

Thanks for the comforting information. Some 'purist' says non-production made blueray discs are not stable and that is why apple doesn't support the format yet...

John, my tally on BD burns must be getting into hundreds now and yours isn't a complaint I've encountered as yet - of course that's not a huge sample as samples go but it must tell you at least part of the story.

My personal opinion of the Apple part of your comment is that Apple's decision to embrace a technology is likely to be driven by the degree the technology can be made exclusive to Apple and thus the profit the company can make out of it. That's a pragmatic marketing decision not merely Luddite.

On the other hand there are others who still don't think that BD is anything but a passing fancy - the creators of the excellent DVD-Lab authoring for example. For them the world appears to have stopped at DVD.

My personal opinion of the Apple part of your comment is that Apple's decision to embrace a technology is likely to be driven by the degree the technology can be made exclusive to Apple and thus the profit the company can make out of it. That's a pragmatic marketing decision not merely Luddite.
.

Phlip, that's a valid point that make sense. I guess I gain some confidence in using blueray format without worrying that much of playback failure issue. I don't know how people in UK is adopting the format, but in US, people is gradually adopting the format, especially the player price drops below the $100.

John, the answer is that since I'm not in retail or privy to the big manufacturers' figures, I don't know how well BD is selling in the UK. As I wrote earlier, our local Blockbuster tell me that they now receive from their Head Office, the same number of copies of each new release in BD as they do in DVD.

Of course they may be subject to all sorts of purchasing minima or other decisions but on the face of it BD's penetration of the rental film part of the market is roughly the same as the DVD penetration. What I doubt is that they're ordering on that basis because they're trying to influence the market by making BD more available than DVD.

One other factor may be people's perception of the value of HD. Recently, at least one of the main broadcasters here has been reducing the HD bitrate of its broadcasts. It seems reasonable to assume that some people considering the upgrade of their replay equipment might look at their lower quality HD transmissions and decide that the perceived difference in quality isn't worth making the change for.

There aren't even ANY Blockbuster video rental stores, or any other video rental stores around here any more either. We used to have at least a dozen here in town.

I suspect everything is now Video on Demand from the cable and satellite companies or online viewing and download.

DVD and Bluray both are entering the death cycle and being replaced by file based systems. There may still be a little short term growth in places, but overall they are going the way of VHS and Beta both. Who cares anymore which of the tape based formats was better? Optical disks are following the same path.

Virtually ALL of my corporate clients now want file based delivery of my work for them. How long until my wedding couples do also? Personally, I'll deliver the way the clients want, if I can.

Maybe there, Video on Demand is ready to kill all DVD/BD, and the same may happen in some other places as well, but on global scale terms, physical media have a loooot of life yet. No Video On Demand services? Slow and unstable ADSL lines? Choose one or both for the most part of the world, and you've got the answer to the question.

Blockbuster and Hollywood video rental stores are killed by netflix and the $1 DVD rental kiosk outside grocery store.

One other factor may be people's perception of the value of HD. Recently, at least one of the main broadcasters here has been reducing the HD bitrate of its broadcasts. It seems reasonable to assume that some people considering the upgrade of their replay equipment might look at their lower quality HD transmissions and decide that the perceived difference in quality isn't worth making the change for.

I guess lower bit rate of the HD material is different issue, compared to the experience people have when they see HD material. When I compare BD disk that has 25MB/S bit rate and compressed version of BD that has 4MB/S bit rate, I still can tell that I'm expriencing the HD material, even though there are ceratainly a quality difference between the two. But If I watch DVD and compared to HD video, it's just a totally different exprience that any ordinary people can tell the difference. I guess that is the primary reason that BD (or HD) gain the popularity these datys.

Been shooting, editing and watching lots of HD footage, now when I look at DVD, I can instantly tell the difference.