Hey guys,

I need to recommend a camera to a non-profit I'll be working with to shoot some question and answer type sessions between a speaker and an audience. I'm wondering if the GH2 would be good for our situation. Here are some points:

- I need the camera to perform well in venues with only in house lighting and no extra lighting equipment. It's just the nature of what I'll have to work with. Some venues, including the main one we'll be using, should have adequate light, but other venues might be more difficult...I'll just have to see as time goes on. Any thoughts?

- Will the GH2 record forever as long as there's space on the SD card, or will there be potential overheating or time limit issues? I'm in the states so it will be NTSC, not PAL with that 30 minute limit. Also, when it splits recordings into 4GB chunks will I be able to join the files for post without any issues or glitches? I'll want it to be able to record for at least 3-4 hour sessions. Some days may be 5 plus hours but with breaks, so I can swap the SD cards then.

- If I go with the GH2 I'd like to record the audio straight to the camera, although syncing audio in post could be an option. We'll be using 2 mics for vocals, so if I take the output of the mixer, use a pad to get the signal back down to mic level, and run it into the GH2, would we get good sound quality?

- I guess the last question I can think of for now is about the zooming. The shot for this camera will most likely be fixed in one spot on the speaker, but with zooming in and out from time to time. Is it easy to get a smooth zoom with the GH2?

I appreciate your thoughts, thanks!

Just my initial reaction, I'd say it might be wrong camera for the job. I would consider a regular video camera. A used FX1000 or HMC150 would both be decent.

A full, smooth zoom is relatively impossible with the GH2 unless your talking just a slight adjustment.

Could you make the camera work? Of course. But it wouldn't be a walk in the park. You would really want two for the job. If you had two of them, one to cut to in post, that would be better.

Focusing is difficult with the camera for a long shot, you need to go manual and use focus assist which must be done while the camera is not recording.

No time limit, except for batteries, which last about an hour +20 minutes. You can use a battery pack, but as of now the coupler required is hard to find unless you buy it for 5X the price on Ebay, etc.

I second Jeff on this. I do a lot of this type of filming for non-profits with everything from a single chip JVC hard drive camera to a JVC HM700. The question is: who is going to use this camera? A capable pro or anybody they can get to do it?

A decent file based video camera should be sufficient, just be sure to research the models with a mic input and then recommend a Beachtek XLR to mini adapter for hooking up to a house mixer. You can use the GH2 and it's a breeze to carry around but the auto-focus is terrible in unpredictable low light situations. I have had better luck with a $300 video camera in the same situations. Audio input is also an issue as the options are limited. The Beachtek adapters for the GH2 have unenthusiastic reviews.

I've used it for these before.

- Zooming with the kit 14-140 takes a lot of practice, and a leverage aid helps tremendously.
- Until DCC8 AC-DC adapters start becoming available, shooting for more than 2 hours continuously will be a problem.
- One lens option: a Pentax or Canon C-mount 8-48mm/F1.0 TV zoom lens. May take some fiddling to get the adapter fitted right. You'll have to shoot in ETC mode to avoid vignetting, but it would give you an effective focal length of ~42-250 and be as fast as you could possibly want with smooth manual zooming.

David, there is a newer Panasonic out, the HMC40? (Edit: Tm700 is the correct model) I can't think of the name, but it is under $1k, and people are raving about it being quite a nice camera for the money. If I had $1k to throw around, I'd get one just to see what the fuss was all about.

For your non-profit friends it might be just the ticket. I don't know if it would perform adequately in the lighting conditions, but if it is light sensitive enough for your needs, I'd take a long hard look at it.

Thanks,

Jeff, any chance you could dig up the model you have in mind? There's a test here of the HMC40 YouTube - Panasonic AG-HMC40 low light test compared with HF100 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ISNHpoSeRw) It looks like the xa10 would be better and it's $2000 vs the $1800 for the HMC40.

So my guess is you're thinking of a different model?

Edit: Btw, I'm leaning towards the GH2 being out. Not having an AC adapter would make it unusable for this kind of work. If the talk goes beyond 2 hours and the batteries die, that would screw everything up. Also, if I have to buy SD cards, a lens and something like the Beachtek it would probably be over $1500 and that's getting close to the $2000 for the xa10.

Yes, you are right, the model is the TM900, sorry about that! HMC 40 is an older model now that I recall. Here's the first thing that popped up when I did search. They say it is sharper than the HMC-150, according to Colin Rowe, who loves his.

UMBRIA - FONTI DEL CLITUNNO [ Panasonic HDC-TM900 Test 1080/50p ] videos - by Youtube Video Script (http://www.ksurugby.com/video/6nY-bKtwm_Q/UMBRIA-FONTI-DEL-CLITUNNO-Panasonic-HDC-TM900-Test-1080-50p.html)

Cool, thanks for the recommendation!

Right now I'm leaning towards that one because the low light performance seems good: YouTube - Panasonic TM900 Extreme Low Light Test (1080p50) (http://youtu.be/5DJO1Q0RVBw)

I think it should work fine for our purposes. YouTube - Dolomites, Italy 2011 - Panasonic HDC-TM900 Full HD Test (http://youtu.be/LKJnbTorxRs)

I've been looking at the TM900 too. I have heard that the video image quality is awesome and intercuts very well with the GH2. My concern is the fan noise that has been noted in several reviews.

For that reason, for a little less than the AG-HMC40, I'm also considering the $1749 Sony HXR-MC2000U (http://www.adorama.com/SOHXRMC2000U.html).

It shoots 1080 interlaced and not progressive -- but it has XLR inputs built in (which the TM900 and HMC40 do not) and it has shoulder-mount ergonomics instead of the prosumer ergonomics of the two Panasonic cams.

I'm wondering about using the TM900 with the Beachtek. We'll be using a Fender portable PA sometimes, so running the output of that into the Beachtek, then into the camera...or running the house mixer's out into the Beachtek.

I'll try the TM900 forums to see if anybody has any info.

You could try the new zoom recorder with video for your audio. I bet the audio would work well and it would be great quality all for arond $500. I'm thinking of going that route. Since the recorder has video it should sync up perfectly.

Good suggestion, but we already have an audio setup. All that needs to happen is that we need to record it well. I think the easiest thing would be to run the audio into the camera, provided we could use a passive level control and the resulting sound quality would be the same.

Beachtek adapters are good but you should check out the model you want to use it with. Some cameras don't work as well as others.

Yeah, I posted a question about this on the TM900 forums. However, some people were saying they liked the product by JuicedLink better.

Yes, it's good camera for that application. I have 3 GH2's and using them on occasion for concerts. They don't overheat like the Canons do, there is no fixed record times and they are highly reliable.

If you go with in camera audio, you'll get great results with the self powered Rode NT3, available new for about $270, used of $130. Great mic.

And they shine in low light, you'd have to spend 10x the price of a GH2 to get a dedicated video camera, like the ones suggested in this thread, to get equivalent light gathering ability. It's no contest. You could buy 3 or 4 GH2's and still spend way less and have safety/redundancy in your recording compared to a single, dedicated vid cam.

With regards to zooming, if you want a smooth zoom, you'll need a follow focus, they start around $130.

Files in post join seamlessly.

The Canon HF-G10 is getting good comments from owners and its low light is said to be very good.

Large 1/3" sensor, focus ring, good call Chris (Martyn). It appears it would be somewhat better in low light than the Panasonic 1/4" chip.

It does look nice, but there is no Shutter Priority, which is a glaring defect. Overall it does look great.
David, I think this Canon might be a real contentder.

I have to admit it is very expensive for what it is.

Jeff the shutter can be manually controlled but that is not what you call shutter priority ?

Thanks for the tip on the Canon. I was thinking though if we go with Canon I'd probably rather spring for the XA-10 because it has XLR ins. We'd have to spend almost $200 anyway to get the JuicedLink or whatever, and that's getting pretty close to $2000. My guess is the XA-10 is better anyway so why not just pay a little more and get that one? I've seen a low light video with the XA-10 and I think it looks very good.

And Brian, thanks for the information. Very helpful. I'm wondering though about not being able to adjust ISO while shooting, especially since these will be 2 plus hour continuous shoots. Is that just a firmware issue that could be fixed? But either way I don't know if I'd want to buy the camera and not be able to adjust that setting while shooting.

Another thing is that we'd definitely need an AC adapter and someone said you can't really get one at the moment. Any thoughts on that?

And I guess my final question is would a follow focus work with the stock lens? Or would we have to purchase an additional lens too?

The Canon HF-G10...

It does look nice, but there is no Shutter Priority, which is a glaring defect.

the shutter can be manually controlled but that is not what you call shutter priority ?

Manual shutter and shutter priority are two different things. The difference is that shutter priority forces
the camera to use auto iris. With manual shutter, the iris can be manual as well (a full manual-everything
mode, in other words).

However, the Canon VIXIA HF G10 *does indeed* have a Tv (shutter priority) mode, as described on page
56 of the HF G10's operator's manual. I'm not sure why anybody would think that it did not have this, as all
Canon camcorders offer Tv mode.

We have a separate forum for Canon VIXIA camcorders, so please take any further HF G10 conversation
to Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders Forum at DVinfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-vixia-series-avchd-hdv-camcorders/) -- meanwhile let's keep this
conversation centered on the Panasonic GH2, please. Thanks in advance,

Yes, you are right, the model is the TM900, sorry about that! HMC 40 is an older model now that I recall. Here's the first thing that popped up when I did search. They say it is sharper than the HMC-150, according to Colin Rowe, who loves his.

UMBRIA - FONTI DEL CLITUNNO [ Panasonic HDC-TM900 Test 1080/50p ] videos - by Youtube Video Script (http://www.ksurugby.com/video/6nY-bKtwm_Q/UMBRIA-FONTI-DEL-CLITUNNO-Panasonic-HDC-TM900-Test-1080-50p.html)
Hi Jeff, think you have me mixed up with someone else, I have never used an HMC-150 lol

Actually Chris, we've been boucing around with other models too, as the original poster was considering using a GH2 for a job that some felt was not a good fit, but you are correct, we've been off topic from an forum point of view.

I watched a CNET video review that slammed the cam on the lack of Tv mode, so if you know differently, then I stand corrected. I can't believe they would make such a mistake in a review, but it wouldn't be the first time it's happened, I've been misinformed by reviewers before. She claimed there was Manual and Aperture priority only.

Colin, I thought you had said you read others saying that the smaller chipped Panny was sharper, my mistake. I didnt think you owned the 150, but regardless I shouldn't have invoked your name that way, sorry.

Hey, no problem Jeff

I watched a CNET video review that slammed the cam on the lack of Tv mode, so if you know differently, then I stand corrected. I can't believe they would make such a mistake in a review, but it wouldn't be the first time it's happened, I've been misinformed by reviewers before. She claimed there was Manual and Aperture priority only.


I have seen too much of that. Aside from poor understanding of a product they are reviewing, some reviewers have a heavy bias toward competitive products and it shows sometimes.

Well that was what was strange about the review, in retrospect. She seemed to really like the camera, and was spot on about the price being high for what it is, but she was real specific about the lack of Shutter Priority mode, and if she was being biased, I didn't see it, but I know what you mean exactly Jim, I've seen that in reviews also.

Anyway, I am loving my cameras, and am less ansty about using them, but they are certainly a challenge.

Well, my apologies for once more continuing off-topic, but just to put it to rest, here's a screen grab of the Canon HF G10 operator's manual. The blatant inaccuracy of the CNET review convinces me that we need to expand DV Info Net more deeply into the higher-end consumer realm.

Click to see it big...

The blatant inaccuracy of the CNET review convinces me that we need to expand DV Info Net more deeply into the higher-end consumer realm.



I wholeheartedly agree with that, With some of the newer consumer products, the line between pro and consumer is not always as obvious as it used to be.

Chris, as I believe you are a dyed-in-the-wool Canon user from way back, I never doubted your claim, and understood CNET was likely mistaken as soon as I read your post.

I consider you to be pretty much an authority on these cameras, so your word was good enough for me

On the other hand, it is absolutley unforgivable that the reviewer could make such a mistake, and then belabor it so.

Furthermore, it sounded SO peculiar and absolutely made no sense that Canon would have left it off.

Anyway, the original poster has at least received the correct information, and can now make an informed decision when debating between the Panasonic TM700 and this Canon.

I sure didn't mean to go on about it -- I should have included that screen grab in my earlier post. It's one thing to say a source is wrong and know that most folks will take your word for it, but that's certainly not definitive proof by any means. The image from the manual verifies it though.

No Chris, at least we know what is true and what is not. Thank you!

Now I have made some comments here about how the GH2 is and isn't suitable for staged event shooting as described in the opening post. I had made my comments based on a number of shoots I did with the camera but none were the type of shoot I felt the camera was not suitable for, namely a single camera shooting an audience view of an event. So yesterday I volunteered to shoot a friend's outdoor jazz concert (fortunately he wasn't expecting anything so success or failure wasn't a factor).

The camera was set on a tripod and I used the 14/140mm Panasonic stock lens as I was about 50 feet from the main stage so I could get close-ups during solos. The lens has the Lumix Zoom Lever attached and I can get a decent on-camera zoom now. I used no other accessories except a Sennheiser on-camera microphone. The camera was set to full automatic: Program AE mode (exposure, shutter), auto focus, auto ISO and auto white balance just to see how it would work. All the other work I have done with the GH2 up to now has been in full manual. For everyone's info, I never shoot full auto at an event with a video camera but I will let the camera handle some of the functions if that seems wise. I proceeded to film as I have hundreds of times over the years with a single camera at staged event, zooming in and out at the appropriate times to cover the action. Here are my observations.

1) The auto white balance needed to be set to manual as it would wander depending on the shot. Just panning from one side of the stage to the other would change the color balance. I have video cameras that do this also so no big deal.

2) The auto focus spent too much time wandering and pulsating even in good light. I have used the auto focus for hand held interviews with the GH2 and did not have this problem. The facial recognition works well. Perhaps this was due to the performers being so far from the camera. The beautiful shallow depth of field that the photo style lens provides is just too much if you have a performer rocking back and forth. A decent video camera with auto focus would perform better in this situation.

3) After switching to manual focus the main problem with using this camera for this type of single camera filming came to the forefront. The zoom lens is not parfocal and so will go in and out of focus while zooming. Refocusing is required. Very annoying to watch during playback. The LCD is insufficient for manual focus, the viewfinder is better but is inconvenient. Once again a video camera would perform better in this situation.

4) The zoom is less powerful on this camera than a comparable video camera BUT ONLY in terms of magnification relative to the distance of the camera. Otherwise the lens is better than a comparable video lens. You can use the ETC 2x mode to get closer but that will bring out the noise if the ISO goes up.

5) Looking at the footage I have to say that the camera performed well in Program AE and auto ISO. Better when I switched the "Film Mode" to Dynamic. The blacks became rich instead of needing correction. The weather turned bad halfway thru the concert but the image maintained itself well as the light dropped. Towards the end it got grainy but not terrible.

This was a field test of my theory and it confirms some of my suspicions. As a single camera recording staged events, out of the box, the GH2 is not truly capable of recording a single long take with consistent image clarity as a video camera can except if manual focus is engaged and the zoom isn't adjusted during filming. This might work for some events but not many in my experience. If I had two cameras, the GH2 would have been great as I could have wandered around the stage and taken some wonderful shots that showcase the great attributes of the GH2. Two GH2s would work fine, one for a wide shot and the other for close ups. No on-camera zooms but great for cutting. The program AE worked well enough that I would be confident that I could start the wide camera and leave it for extended periods of time.

So my friend has an imperfect record of his event that looks great about 70 to 80% of the time. I try for 100% when I shoot events like this (and get 95%+) so the next time I'm going back to my video camera. Still love the GH2 and will use it for different jobs.

You are so right, of course William, and I second your post.

As you know, I'm running four of the GH cameras for weddings to ensure I can have one decent shot at all times. As it works out, I usually have at least two or three at any given time, and if the video gods are in good sprits, there are moments I have four.

I'm definitely hooked on the 20mm as a great steady b cam, placed in the rear. You set your focus, turn it on and you can safely forget about it running auto or high ISO, as you have done.

I'm finding that a high ISO in aperture priority allows the shutter speed to control exposure, so to speak, and works pretty darn well. Program mode works well as well, but I like to avoid the hunting iris, so I prefer aperture priority most of the time, but use both.

With an FD lens, it is necessary to for me to run in program or full manual, as auto ISO doesn't function at all otherwise.

Today I filmed a 2 hour opera. 3 GH2's and Tascam for the audio.
I used the semi auto focus, locked on to the singer and, of course, it won't hunt because it's not in full auto.
all settings were manual. I had no focus or exposure issues whatsoever.

Sorry William, but I don't agree that lack of parafocal on the kit lens is in any way a fault of the GH2, that's a limitation of the glass. I filmed a recital a few weeks ago with a 25-250 35mm Vintage Angeniux. Parafocal and a Red Rock Follow Focus to turn the Zoom ring. William, you'd be in heaven with that glass. Manual focus but it's a $12,000 lens and focuses so effortlessly.

So I couldn't be happier with how they performed, all three on sticks and one of the GH2's had a RODE hypercardioid feeding it just in case the Tascam screwed up or if the house recording wasn't any good. Yes, I believe in redundancy in live events -- they terrify me. I don't know how wedding guys do it. I'd have a nervous breakdown.

So having done several live event now with GH2, I think they're great. I keep it simple, manual setting on everything except I go with the semi auto focus so it avoids hunting -- although one of my GH2's is set up with a 100mm Canon FD that focuses manually.

Brian, I get what you're saying, but for general purposes, I also hear what William is saying, and for purposes of making general recommendations, I would side with him.

I use the cameras for weddings, but wouldn't recommend others do what I do unless they knew full well what they were getting into. I also run the four at a time by myself at weddings, but just because I do it, doesn't mean I would recommend it.

Regarding live events, yes it can be done, of course, but who would it be reasonable to recommend this to? Certainly not the original poster, absolutely not the right camera. A non-profit, lord knows who's going to be using, etc. they need to keep it simple.

There are many events, such as school plays, that the cameras can be used for, but are they an ideal choice? Not for the typical videographer, I don't believe they are.

I keep it simple, manual setting on everything except I go with the semi auto focus so it avoids huntingWhat exactly do you mean by semi-auto focus? I just can't seem to get to grips with the various auto focus modes as it always seems to hunt at some stage. I have been using it on what I thought was manual only (MF with dial on top left of camera) but I could have sworn that it was still trying to auto-focus at one stage & wondered if there i some menu item that I need to change too as there are as I recall several AF related settings.

Today I filmed a 2 hour opera. 3 GH2's and Tascam for the audio.
I used the semi auto focus, locked on to the singer and, of course, it won't hunt because it's not in full auto.
all settings were manual. I had no focus or exposure issues whatsoever.

Sorry William, but I don't agree that lack of parafocal on the kit lens is in any way a fault of the GH2, that's a limitation of the glass. I filmed a recital a few weeks ago with a 25-250 35mm Vintage Angeniux. Parafocal and a Red Rock Follow Focus to turn the Zoom ring. William, you'd be in heaven with that glass. Manual focus but it's a $12,000 lens and focuses so effortlessly.


If someone will tell when and where that lens will be falling from the sky, I'll be there to catch it.

Lack of parfocal is not a fault but a condition of the equipment that restricts it's use in a situation where a video camera would be a better choice. I just got off a two day intensive shoot for a sitcom pilot as a second camera operator and I can't tell you the lengths the director of photography was going just to get shallow DOF on the production's $10,000 dollar HD cameras with stock video lenses. Everything was sharp with the f-stop open. Frequently we would pull the cameras far away from the subjects to force DOF with the zoom. That has it own drawbacks such as camera vibration even on good tripods. Many of the sets were real locations where we couldn't get far back. I could have easily gotten what he wanted with the GH2 but we would have lost the ability to zoom in or out when the script called for it. So it's a toss-up. Perhaps the next time (if there is one) we could include the GH2 in the shooting arsenal.

What exactly do you mean by semi-auto focus? I just can't seem to get to grips with the various auto focus modes as it always seems to hunt at some stage. I have been using it on what I thought was manual only (MF with dial on top left of camera) but I could have sworn that it was still trying to auto-focus at one stage & wondered if there i some menu item that I need to change too as there are as I recall several AF related settings.

I think there's a better, more commonly used term than semi-auto focus, but what I mean is you half depress the shutter button and it lock on to the focus and will NOT change unless you again, half depress the shutter button. So, in other words, no hunting issues, so any time you need refocus, just half depress that button. It works while recording or in stand by.

I have learned the hard way that pressing the button half way is dangerous. If you push the botton a bit too hard, the camera will stop recording. If you touch the screen you will get the same results without risking stopping the recording. In addition, you can touch the screen anywhere in the frame to establish the point of focus. This is very useful when the subject is not in the center of the frame.

I think there's a better, more commonly used term than semi-auto focus, but what I mean is you half depress the shutter button and it lock on to the focus and will NOT change unless you again, half depress the shutter button. So, in other words, no hunting issues, so any time you need refocus, just half depress that button. It works while recording or in stand by.Brian, please could you run through the exact menu settings needed to achieve this as it seems to be exactly what I was looking for when I started this thread http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-lumix-gf-gh-series/495097-manual-focus-push-auto.html On my Canon 5DII when in Live View I can hit the AF-ON button & the mirror flips down it nails focus & then the mirror flips back up & I can hit RECORD. Apparently on the Canon 7D you can do the same thing while recording although obviously you do get a slight interruption in the video. Something similar on the GH2 could be just the ticket.

Nigel, I think if you use AFS mode on the dial it should work just fine (pg 34 of manual).

Also, there is a discussion on focusing on page 82 of the manual that that describes the touch screen method, which I am going to utilize more. As Jim says the button method is dangerous, and has bitten me more than once during a live event.

AFS & pressing the shutter button halfway does not work when recording at 24p in Creative Movie Mode. I haven't tried any other mode as I always use 24p. Even in AFS (Auto Focus Single) when Continuous AF is set ON in the Motion Picture menu it in fact still does continuous AF & focuses on whatever is in the centre of the screen (provided the AF mode dial is set to 1-area-focusing). As you move the camera it focuses on different objects that are in the centre of the screen but only while recording. If you are not recording then you can press the shutter button halfway to achieve focus.

Am I missing some menu setting that will enable focusing by pressing the shutter button halfway while recording?

Brian, please could you run through the exact menu settings needed to achieve this as it seems to be exactly what I was looking for when I started this thread .

I set the top dial to M with the camera icon, right next to C3. Then in the menus
CREATIVE MOVIE MODE set to 24p Cinema
MOTION PICTURE go to Continuous AF and turn it OFF.
CUSTOM go to Shutter AF and turn it ON.

should work in standby or rec.

That should work. And as Jim says, careful with that half depressing the shutter thing, develop a nice touch. Touch screen is good too if you like touch screens. I have trouble with them.

Nigel, I cannot remember how to do what you want, I once I turned off all focus related options off in the menu, and turned them back on one at a time, to see what behaviours changed and thereby kind of learning what did what. Unfortunately I've already forgotten it all, as I had to reset the camera and never re-did the experiment.

Before I waste more time fiddling about in the GH2 menus can someone please confirm that it is indeed possible to focus by pressing the shutter button halfway while recording?

I confirm it and additionally can report that the camera will record the reflected infrared focusing light if you are close to the subject in very low light. I turned it off because of this.

Nigel, see page 131, top of the page of manual. It works for sure. Camera comes with this on by default.

Nigel, is it working out for you?

Nigel, is it working out for you?Yes & no. Thanks for the pointer to the manual but I just discovered in my testing that this PRE AF setting on the CUSTOM menus does not work in 24p Cinema in Creative Motion Picture Mode which is what I use all the time for best image quality. In fact it appears that it doesn't work in any Creative Motion Picture Mode either but it does work if you select M & then use the red record button to start & stop as you can press the shutter button halfway. If you are in Movie Mode the shutter button operates exactly as the red record button & pressing it halfway does nothing & pressing too hard stops recording. Is some other menu setting that I am missing? There are so many little irritations about this camera that I am sure could all be fixed in a firmware update if Panasonic were interested.

It does work in Manual Movie mode, I think, doesn't it? I don't think the shooting mode affects focus modes, but I might be wrong.

Something sounds wrong/off. You might have to try using the reset button in the menu, see if that restores things.

Which lens are you using when trying this? And you are in AFS or AFC mode right?

I did some more testing. Evidently for press the shutter button halfway to focus you need CONTINUOUS AF set to ON in the MOTION PICTURE menu. Unfortunately this means that the rather poor continuous AF will hunt for focus in between you pressing the shutter button halfway to focus. Unless of course there is yet another menu item that I missed:-)