OK, so I just finished editing my first live shoot with my new 60D's. I have some major more training to do! Here's my questions:

FOCUS: I had f/stop all the way open at 2.8 on my 70-200L IS and my focus was off for the audience to the kids on "stage" (actually up front on risers) in a school gym. The lights were turned on and off during the "show". Any stopping down led to under-exposed metering on my cam. Is the answer one of these?

1) Turn up LCD brightness-how fast does this burn up my batteries? Will this really help me see what I need better?
2) Buy a loupe-the problem with this is if I need to raise up the cam on a tripod, right?
3) Buy a monitor-in a wedding situation, isn't it hard to have this extra equipment attached to the cam to move around quickly between monopod, tripod, glidecam? And on the 60D, isn't the monitor lower res so you can't really tell the focus?

SHUTTER SPEED: In a low lit wedding with stain glass windows is it best to shoot at 24p, f/2.8, shutter 60 or 50? if you switch from 24p indoor to 30p or 60p outdoors, does this lead to stuttery or strobing footage in post on a 24p timeline after converting the 30p or 60p to 24p since the majority of it will be 24p?

ISO: Is 1600 the highest you should go or can you go higher? I think I had mine at 1250 and it's pretty blown out.

if you switch from 24p indoor to 30p or 60p outdoors, does this lead to stuttery or strobing footage in post on a 24p timeline after converting the 30p or 60p to 24p since the majority of it will be 24p?

I'd highly advise against mixing frame rates within the same production. Your 24p footage will look jittery in comparison to the 30p/60p shots -- there will be a noticeable difference, especially if the pulldown isn't applied correctly.

OK, so I guess I'll be needing a filter then for outdoor shoots if it's sunny.

How about the focus issues? Anyone? Advice please?

Monitor or loupe?

Or is it just as simple as turning up my LCD brightness?

are you saying you are having a hard time looking at the screen to pull focus or you are trying to get the kids and audience in focus at the same time? If you are referring to the screen then maybe brighten it up or buy a viewfinder or use your magnification but to get exact focus before hitting your record (if 60d has that). If it is the latter then you will need to close down f stop and ask to add light in the room to get exposure(when you are maxed out on iso). I don't go any higher than 1250

Hi Joshua,

Yes, I thought it was in focus during the shoot, but apparently it wasn't when I put it on the big screen during editing. So yes, I needed magnification. I wear contacts but these poor ole eyes o'mine are gettin old.

I couldn't close up f/stop any more due to lighting to get deeper DOF, and I couldn't ask them to turn lights on as they had the show all planned out.

I was wondering which magnification for focus is better: monitor or loupe for weddings.

I need to do a test too to see if just turning up the silly brightness would've helped. I keep hoping for a free solution! But I would die a thousand deaths if I had to deliver the footage I just shot at this local school to a bride, so I'm willing to do what it takes to make sure any wedding I shoot is in focus!

Thanks for your advice in advance.

An External monitor will not give you any more resolution since the output after you hit the rec button drops to SD resolution.
You definately need a loupe.
on a 60D you will lose the ability to close the screen facing in (there are some solutions to that but I personaly don't find them good enough) but that's a small price to pay.
I suggest one of the following: LCD Viewfinder for Canon 5D Mark II 7D T1i T2i 550D 60D | eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/LCD-Viewfinder-Canon-5D-Mark-II-7D-T1i-T2i-550D-60D-/380326119574?pt=Digital_Camera_Accessories&hash=item588d340896)
3" LCD ViewFinder Extender 2.8X for Nikon D90 D300s D3 | eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/3-LCD-ViewFinder-Extender-2-8X-Nikon-D90-D300s-D3-/110641934958?pt=Digital_Camera_Accessories&hash=item19c2c5f26e)

Thank you Spiros!

While the HDMI out of the 60D downconverts to SD onto your external montior even when recording on 1080p, my question is: does this really matter? The monitor itself is only 800x480 resolution (SD), unless you have the top of the line at 1280x800. Even then, it's not full 1080p and you will have to use a smaller 5 or 6" monitor, rather than the 7 or 8" monitors available at 800x480.

I shot with a 7D which does output 1080p to my 800x480 8" Lilliput monitor. It helped focus tremendously, but still not perfect, especially for low lighting. Very hard to get critical focus when you have your lens wide open at 1.8 or even 2.8. I'm not sure what the solution is going to be...I've debated loupes or the Cinevate Cyclops, but those are just LCD magnifers, which means it depends on the resolution of your LCD screen.

If the camera image looks sharp but isn't I'd suggest you check whether the camera is performing correctly.

The other thing which you may or may not be able to do (I'm not familiar with your camera) is to turn off the colour - assuming you don't have the option of a true mono viewfinder. One of the reasons professional cameras invariably had mono viewfinders was because at any given resolution it's easier to focus. It did produce a few problems when shooting snooker matches but that's another story.

Incidentally I can't see what practical benefit enlarging the image will be, regardless of how you do it.

In low light I usually have my shutter speed a 1/30, ISO 1250, f as low as possible if needed. I've had it in the past where we thought the camera was in focus, and it wasnt! It takes practice and after more experience I was able to focus safely even at f2.0. If the object is static and you have multiple cameras, you can make sure its in focus by tapping the display zoom button, adjust your focus and then roll from there.

In low light I usually have my shutter speed a 1/30, ISO 1250, f as low as possible if needed. I've had it in the past where we thought the camera was in focus, and it wasnt! It takes practice and after more experience I was able to focus safely even at f2.0. If the object is static and you have multiple cameras, you can make sure its in focus by tapping the display zoom button, adjust your focus and then roll from there.

Yes, this is exactly what the problem was...lack of experience. With that shallow DOF I had a hard time getting the right part in focus in the large array of people in the audience then up to the kids. With all those little heads in the LCD it was hard to tell which was actually in proper focus on f/stop 2.8.

I'm guessing with a wedding, there's only one or two persons filling up my LCD for the most part so I'm hoping this will make it easier. I'm still getting a loupe to make sure though! At least during the ceremony. I can't afford to miss those once in a lifetime shots! It will probably help too during other shoots to have that extra point of contact.

Man this place is great! I'm so swimming in videography in my brain all my friends are absolutely sick of hearing about it. At least here I can find answers!

Yes, this is exactly what the problem was...lack of experience. With that shallow DOF I had a hard time getting the right part in focus in the large array of people in the audience then up to the kids. With all those little heads in the LCD it was hard to tell which was actually in proper focus on f/stop 2.8.

I'm guessing with a wedding, there's only one or two persons filling up my LCD for the most part so I'm hoping this will make it easier. I'm still getting a loupe to make sure though! At least during the ceremony. I can't afford to miss those once in a lifetime shots! It will probably help too during other shoots to have that extra point of contact.

Man this place is great! I'm so swimming in videography in my brain all my friends are absolutely sick of hearing about it. At least here I can find answers!

Lisa, don't use the loupe all the time. I have a Z-Finder and only use it on a sunny day so I can see the viewfinder. If you use it all the time, your eye will be locked so tightly on the back of the camera that you won't see anything else going on around you.

Michael,

Ahh, good point. But during the ceremony, do you think it's better to use the loupe to make sure focus is right?

For focus, I've had a short stint using a Sony monitor with the GH2, and I can't believe SD out isn't good enough for focusing purposes at a wedding. It was for me. It is bright and clear and beautiful. I find loupes a pain, and echo what Michael pointed out, but that is just me. For run and gun outdoors I bought a LCD hood that works well, and allows me to keep my eye on my surroundings. Heck the Sony monitor comes with an effective hood as well.

You do not, IMO, an HD monitor to foucs, IMO.

I reluctantly abandoned my monitor for reasons unrelated to it's effectiveness, but never in a million years would not have one if I could. My camera will not utilize a monitor when shooting at 720p (bizarre as it sounds) which is what I shoot in.

For run and gun shooting, I use auto ISO, as my camera will not allow adjustment of ISO on the fly. There are those who will scream and holler that they will never use auto anything on a camera, and that's fine. But I run 4 GH2s for weddings for unbroken and continuous video and I cannot shut down my cameras everytime I need to adjust ISO. If you have a fast enough lens, your ISO will not usually go unreasonalby high anyway. I run in Movie mode using Aperture Priority for ceremonies with auto ISO and it works beautifully. You can also run in Shutter Priority in some cases, but then you will have the iris hunting and adjusting on the fly, which is disruptive and not nearly as smooth as the ISO adjusting. I don't know about the Canon, but the GH2 is grain free up to at least 1600 ISO. I use fast lenses, so the chance of the camera going above that is pretty remote. I have the option of putting a limit on the ISO anyway, but haven't bothered. It's not necessary.

Those that use DSLR, etc for snippets and highlights only can adust as needed, but if you're going for continuous filming you must run in some kind of automatic mode, I just haven't found a way around it.

There is no perfect way of running these cams continously, but it can be done.

+ 10 Jef... You sound like me? busy busy busy, no time and got to be ready.....admit it everyone auto is a must??????? auto wb? auto iso? auto focus? cmon now admit!!!!!!!!!

Lisa, don't use the loupe all the time. I have a Z-Finder and only use it on a sunny day so I can see the viewfinder. If you use it all the time, your eye will be locked so tightly on the back of the camera that you won't see anything else going on around you.
1 eye on loupe, the other open

To clarify Steve, I do mean a partial auto mode only. In my case I let the camera either run in Aperture Priority or Shutter priorty, depending on the situations, and almost always auto ISO.

For getting ready of course, and specialty shots, I run in full manual, of course. But not always!

When using FD lenses on the GH2 Shutter priority is perfect, since I can control aperture using the lens itself.

As an aside, I am finding FD lenses to be my bestest friend, though I had my doubts at first. With aperture control on the lens, I can run in Shutter Priority, control shutter with a dial, let Auto ISO run and rip, and I'm good.

I would run in full manual mode if I could, but I lose auto ISO ability. Auto ISO is my friend.

I ran four GH2s Saturday, and never had to turn them off in over one hour of shooting the ceremony. And the footage looks great, BTW! Not perfect, I had a new lens I didn't know how to use yet, but with four cameras I was covered.

Ahhh ok Jef, sorry your on the gh2 im on the 60d canon,,, totally different!! 60d its frame, choose shutter speed, choose auto iso or feed what iso you want in, then sort focus, check your apeture on the meter bar and fire!! i usually stop down one on the apeture...as its sometimes to bright!

60D, nice camera, would love to have one. The GH2 shoots great video. It takes relatively poor photos. Of course, I'm no photographer either.

I had a 40D, and I loved the photos I got from it.

Jef i had trouble deciding between with the gh2 and 60d!!! in the end because i shoot photos as well as vids i chose the 60d, great stills by the way, but heard from friends the gh2 is well better than 60d for vids...but up to now pleased with the 60d. chow kidda

60d shoots great video, you're fine there. I do have a one advantage, as you know. I never have to restart. I'm looking for a coupler to hook up to my power pack, then I could in theory shoot for like 8 hours non-stop. As it is, the Panasonic batteries are good for maybe 80 minutes, and then you have to change them out, which drives me crazy. Once I get the power pack, I'll never shut down once the reception starts, just for the purpose of not having to sync up in post.

good idea nice one jef...

Jealous here of not having to restart.

: (

Got my shoot done last night, but everyone was late so shadows were long and sunlight was scarce. Will be looking at it starting now!

You can have a continous running, unattended B cam for little $$$.

For $400 you can buy a GH1, $29 a Canon FD mount adapter, and for $100 a Canon FD 50mm F/1.4 lens, and you'd be in business with a great b cam. Of course with that lens, at 100mm effective range it would be a bit long for most applications.

Better would be a GH1 with a Panasonic 20mm F/1.7 $400 or so used. It shoot a decent wide shot from the rear and can be left unattended. Here's a screen grab from the 20mm and 50mm respectively. Not bad for $900 I think.

I should add the GH1 is only suitable, IMO for fast lenses. Otherwise the GH2 is better, but with a F/1.7 lens or faster the differences are negligible.

Yes, the Panny was my other choice when I was purchasing. But now with 2-60D's, if I get another it will be another 60D because of batteries & lenses. Those things add up really fast. And also in post, what a dream to edit the SAME cameras! I absolutely hate editing with my other cams mixed in. It screws everything up.

But, it is definitely something to keep in mind if I need a bridge before I can pay off this debt I have now accumulated with these Canons.

I understand completely, you are not looking to spend money.

On an added note, I cannot imagine that the cameras would not not match up very well, they would work perfectlytogether. This is not like matching up a Canon HV30 and a HMC150.

The look of your video is determined more by the lens than the by camera especially with these two.

The 20mm has a very warm look much like Canon lenses. I'm very familiar and fond of the Canon aesthetic, it is my favorite. I use two canon lenses on the GH1, and the lens is what creates the look as much as anything, if not more so.

Batteries for the GH1 are around $50 each or less, BTW.

If you get desperate for a continous running cam that will match your current cameras, the GH1 is the least expensive and highest quality camera for the money. I cannot even imagine having to restart my cameras, but I know that the crop of Canon and Nikon users are making them work, as I see the amazing videos they shoot with them. Most are much better than mine. I think most use regular video cameras as main cameeras, I do not, so my point of view is very different from most users.

I'm also considered nuts for using these without a regular video camera.

I'm probably going to deeply regret using my HV40 & HV20 as my non-stop running back-ups. But, what d'ya do? That's what I have for now to use. Those two seconds worth I'll need them for will take who knows how long in post to get to match. Sigh.

Sell them both and buy the GH1 and a 20mm! You'll lose zoom but if you need a beatiful wide shot from the rear it will work handsomely. I hook my wireless to my rear GH1 and and it works really well.

The HV30 footage next to your gorgeous 60d footage will be dreadful. That's what I did; I had an hv30 that was my last security blanket, and I sold it for a GH1. You'd still come up a few bucks shy, but you'd be close!

Good luck. This whole process is quite stressfull. I''ve been going through it for months, and I feel like I'm almost at the end. I want one more lens and I think I'm good. I'm actually getting a second 20mm F/1.7. I love the lens so much, I want to run two of them for reception alongside a 50mm F/1.4.

Unfortunately any money gained from the sale of the HV's will go toward my second 60D. That was the "deal" I already made with mah man! I'm just waiting to sell them till after two scheduled weddings in June. I desperately wish I would win some money or something to have a better matching 3rd cam. Oh how I wish.

Signed,
Wishful

Oooh, two of those will be nice, but the time limit would kill me. You are braver than I am.

Michael,

Ahh, good point. But during the ceremony, do you think it's better to use the loupe to make sure focus is right?

Yes, for the ceremony its cool to for checking focus. I'm 45 years old and just bought my first pair of eye glasses, so my Z-Finder has been staying in my bag for church ceremonies.

Michael,

Ahh, good point. But during the ceremony, do you think it's better to use the loupe to make sure focus is right?

1 eye on loupe, the other open

You can't turn your head with one eye on the loupe. ;-)