Hi
I am planning to buy a DSLR for photography and videography. However, my videography will be limited to short films and nothing more.

Now that the new Nikon D5100 is out, I wanted to know which is better, a D5100 or the old Canon 550D? (I'm not considering the 600D or the T3i - out of my budget).

If any of you have experience with these cameras, I'd love to hear your advice. Thanks.

If you are willing to give up all the potential of the Canon+Magic lantern and have no problem with the various limitations of the Nikon in video mode, then you will be o.k. with the Nikon too.
If not, then the 550D is the obvious choice.

550D without question.

Much better implementation of live view/video mode and more functional manual controls. Not to mention the 60p, 25p/50p for PAL land, and the Magic Lantern capabilities.

Also not to be underestimated, is the overwhelming amount of online user support available for the 550D compared to the D5100 for video use.

Thank you Spiros and John. I am leaning towards the 550D but what put me off my decision are the reviews from dxomark that show the d5100 is miles ahead of the 550D (and on par with the d7000) in terms of still image quality.

But I guess video is important, and that leaves me no choice (which is not necessarily a bad thing).

Maybe the Nikon is better for stills but I don't think it's miles away.
The 550D is not bad at all and it will serve you just fine for photography too. Just make sure you get nice lenses for it. Video is forgiving with lens quality but stills are not.
Good low budget choices are the Tamron 17-50 f2.8, the Canon 50 f1.8 and the Canon 85 f1.8, just to get you started.

Thanks Spiros. Any reasonable wide angle primes I could use?

How wide and how fast?

The Sigma 30mm f/1.4 is a popular and relatively economical choice.

Hi John...Actually my favorite is the 28mm on a full frame. I think that would equate to about 18mm.

Soon i'll post a couple of videos from 5100-----
Great camera for the price and....NIkon lenses make a great difference, but just 24-25p

There is the 20mm f/1.8 from Sigma. Not quite 18mm, but about as wide as you'll get for a lens that fast without paying several thousand dollars.

Thanks John...I'll check it out!

Sounds like you are getting a lot of advice from users who haven't tried out the D5100. Sure the Canon has made great progress with video and no doubt has a larger user base, but I think the Nikon D5100 will outperform the 550D with video. Will let you know, I am being sent one for inclusion in my next DVD production.

How so? It uses the same sensor and compression as the D7000 so should provide a very similar picture. However, you don't have the manual control of the D7000 (which itself still requires a work-around), let alone 50p/60p and Magic Lantern.

It's like two steps forward, one step backwards for Nikon. The D7000 was their first real HD-DSLR competitor and now they've gone and removed what little ground they gained. Even if the picture is somehow miraculously much improved over the D7000, the lack of manual control alone is enough to put it out of contention.

Will keep you posted as soon as the review sample arrives, but from what I have seen of the camera (at the press launch) It did look very impressive. As I said, will let you know as soon as I take delivery.

Thanks Vincent...but from what I've heard the bit rate on the 5100 is not as good as the Canon's. Plus it doesn't have the higher frame rates either.

Still, I'll wait to see actual results.

In the spirit of a fiar and balanced discussion and full disclosure, I'll say that bit-rate is not the sole determining factor of video quality. The way the codec is implemented (eg: the number of I, P & B frames) and the quality of the encoding hardware will have just as much impact on the final quality as the bitrate will.

Considering their lower bit-rates, the Nikon camers obviously have a better implementation of the H.264 codec, as thier compression is certainly comparable to the Canon's despite the bitrate differences. Thier bit-rate is in fact very close to the 24mb/s AVCHD which is recorded by several professional camcorders such as the HMC150 and the NX5 - and nobody would argue that the image from those cameras is damaged by a low bit-rate.

One plus, the lower bit-rate of the Nikon's means you can record continuously for about 20 minutes before you hit the 4GB recording limit, as opposed to about 12 minutes with the Canon's.

Thank John...that makes it more confusing then. Can't find any reliable tests on the video, and the 5100 is slightly cheaper here than the 550D.

As John says, Bit rates shouldn't be the deciding factor, unless you intend to shoot for a TV broadcast by the BBC (50mbs minimum required). An efficient codec and good quality optics are probably more important.

As for the 12 or 20 minute limitation, that shouldn't pose any problem, unless of course you need to shoot an entire wedding ceremony, concert or play production. Generally most shots that are used on screen only last for a matter of seconds, usually between 2 and 10 seconds, any longer and the viewers attention drifts. It's surprising how fast we lose visual interest in what we are looking at. Of course there are always exceptions.

Maybe you should also consider the price of extra add on's like lenses, power drives etc.I have no doubt that you will be pleased with which ever camera you choose.

Thank John...that makes it more confusing then.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it any harder for you!

I'll make it simple for you then: Get the 550D.

Buying the 550D tomorrow.

Bought it!

How so? It uses the same sensor and compression as the D7000 so should provide a very similar picture. However, you don't have the manual control of the D7000 (which itself still requires a work-around), let alone 50p/60p and Magic Lantern.

It's like two steps forward, one step backwards for Nikon. The D7000 was their first real HD-DSLR competitor and now they've gone and removed what little ground they gained. Even if the picture is somehow miraculously much improved over the D7000, the lack of manual control alone is enough to put it out of contention.

I'm very interested in the 5100 and very new to dslr filming but what lack of controles would that be.

The D5100 only offers aperture priority, and you have to set the aperture before you enter Live View/video mode. Once you are recording, you have no control over the image exposure. The only thing you can do is use AE lock to stop it from auto-adjusting.

Don't get a D5100 if you plan on using it for video. Either get a Canon (I've seen the t2i brand new for under $600) or if you absolutely must have a Nikon, then get a D7000.

It seems to me that a screw on variable ND filter (which is a good idea anyway) would give you plenty of control over exposure.

Yes, but that still gives you zero control over the shutterspeed and ISO. Want to decrease noise? Or shoot with a 180 degree shutter? Well you can't.

The 550D is $200 cheaper at (with the current rebate) than the D5100. If you are primarily buying for video, then there is absolutely nothing that the Nikon offers that is better than the Canon. The Canon hands down beats it for video, and is 20% cheaper. Plus, it can even use all your Nikon lenses via an apadtor.

Can't you just fix your shutterspeed at 1/60th of a second for 30p or something close to that?

DSLR filmmaking is tough, and without the right accessories DSLRs are a real pain and drag to shoot with. The D5100 is theoretically similar to the 550D, but is practically much harder to control and use in the real world, as far as video is concerned.

There is no doubt that as far as video goes, Nikon isn't even in the game yet.

Well i have several good Nikon lenses and i do want to get into some video shooting.
I dont want to sell the lenses and i do not think its a good idea to mount them on a Canon, is it?
So all in all the 7000 is better then the 5100 for video.

Edit: the 7000 is not an option it does not do 1920x1080 in 25p.

Can't you just fix your shutterspeed at 1/60th of a second for 30p or something close to that?

No. You have absolutely no control over shutterspeed. Any adjustments you apply to shutterspeed in Live View mode or before entering Live View mode will be ignored once you start recording video. Same with ISO.

Well i have several good Nikon lenses and i do want to get into some video shooting.
I dont want to sell the lenses and i do not think its a good idea to mount them on a Canon, is it?
So all in all the 7000 is better then the 5100 for video.

Edit: the 7000 is not an option it does not do 1920x1080 in 25p.

What Nikon Lenses do you have? Any Nikon lens can be used on an EOS body with the use of an adaptor ($20 each). These adaptors will give you no AF or auto-aperture, but you can't use these (effectively) in video mode anyway.

If you have Nikon G lenses with no aperture ring, you can get a special adaptor ring which has a lever which operates the aperture tab on the lens. So you can actually have more control over the video image if you use Nikon lenses on a Canon body than on a Nikon body.

Do you plan on syncronising the video from your DSLR with video from any other sources? Eg from another camcorder? If not, it does not matter that you shoot 24p instead of 25p with the D7000. You can just confrom the frame rate to 25p either before or after editing. It is imperceptible - this is the same method used to play films (24p) on PAL televisions. The only problem with this is if you have to mix with footage shot with a multicam setup at 25p - because then they would get out of sync with each other.

In my opinion the D5100 is a non-contender video-wise. The D7000 has some limitations that mean it is not on the same level as the Canons for video, but at least it actually has manual exposure.

"No. You have absolutely no control over shutterspeed. Any adjustments you apply to shutterspeed in Live View mode or before entering Live View mode will be ignored once you start recording video. Same with ISO."

Not sure which Nikon you're using but on the D7000 you can control both shutter speed ans ISO from Live View.

The advantage of the D7000 is that you can use most of the older Nikon style lenses as there is a small lug on the lens mount which links to the aperture ring on Ai lenses. The D5100 uses the G mount aperture control.

Canon does have an advantage by being able to shoot at 35mbs, whereas the Nikon uses 25mbs - I can't see a great deal of difference in the actual footage, but some will argue that there is a visible difference.

Both the Canon and Nikon will produce good video footage, you will not be disappointed with either. Having said that, they both have shortcomings when compared to a dedicated video camcorder.

"No. You have absolutely no control over shutterspeed. Any adjustments you apply to shutterspeed in Live View mode or before entering Live View mode will be ignored once you start recording video. Same with ISO."

Not sure which Nikon you're using but on the D7000 you can control both shutter speed ans ISO from Live View.



I made this comment in response to a question about the D5100. Later in the same post I did mention that the D7000 has manual control.

I would not put too much weight on the differences between bitrate on the Canon and Nikon cameras. Bitrate is only one small part of a very big puzzle when it comes to image compression. Compare footage from any of these DSLR's to the 24mbps h.264 from the Panasonic AVC-Cam line such as the AF100 or HMC150 and you'll notice a world of difference. The Panasonic implementation is so much better, despite the lower bitrate.

Also regarding the limitation of 24p. This should not be a problem, all PAL & NTSC sets will play this frame rate and if you are publishing to the internet then it isn't a problem at all. I shoot all my material at either 24p or 30p and I live in the UK.

The Nikon's do shoot 1920 x 1080 at 24p, but will do 30p at 1280 x 720. Almost all my work ends up on a Standard Definition DVD, so I tend to shoot using 1280 x 720 as this produces better quality when down sampled to Standard Definition DVD.

Both the Canon 550D and Nikon D5100 cameras have their plus and minus points, it all comes down to which system you prefer

Well I ordered a D5100 last Friday from B&H. It should arrive tomorrow. I will still keep my Sony HVR Z7U camcorder (which I love) so it won't be my only video camera. I hope to be able to expand into regular photography and also use the 5100 for D-SLR type shallow depth of field and low light shots.

A couple of key points to choosing this over the Canon were:

1/ Tiltable screen at this price point.
2/ dc-bias powered stereo mic input.
3/ Auto-focus (I can live with autofocus as good as I am seeing on the outdoor auto-focus samples on Youtube).
4/ 29.97 and 23.976 with sRGB levels at both 1080 and 720p at this price point.

Points where the Canon is superior:
1/ Magic Lantern updateable (boy I would love the zebras and overlaid audio meters),
2/ Smooth autoexposure function
3/ Settings changeable in live view.

Points were both cameras are weak:
1/ Aliasing and moire distortion.
2/ Can't monitor audio from camera while recording.
3/ Neither great for following moving action.
4/ Neither produces video in a format I can use efficiently on a timeline without converting to an intermediate.
5/ No dual phantom powered XLR inputs with separate limiters, level control and metering.

I do mostly local ad stuff as well as church and non-profit group promos.

With that in mind, the way I expect to be able to use this camera is as follows:

1/ Unlit (or with one simple softlight) interviews in much lower light than I could get away with on my 1/3" CMOS camcorder. I have two electret dc-bias powered mics on a 10 foot Y cable into a 1/8" stereo mini-jack that I got from microphonemadness.com. This will be an extremely easy interview setup. Canon's don't have dc-bias voltage on their mic inputs, so I would need some sort of extra mixer or power supply for the mics. With the Nikon, I can have my 10' cabled Y'd electret condenser lapel mics in a pouch in my pocket and not need anything else for an interview.

2/ B-Roll slide type photos and footage. I expect to be able to shoot photographs (mostly in aperture priority mode) and every so often slip into live view mode and shoot video clips with the same depth of field as I was just shooting in aperture priority mode).

3/ I will be shooting mostly at 29.97 1080p mode on a simple tripod. Since I deliver mostly on the Internet at 720p, this means that I will be able to Ken Burns effect zoom and pan up to a third of the way in at full 720p resolution, the same as I will be doing with my still photos. This should give me really nice slight motion and means that I can set my templates up to use either stills or photos interchangeably. This is important to me because I am trying to deliver a relatively low priced product without working too cheaply. It is also important to me because I do so much work for churches and non-profit organizations and I want them to have slick looking productions without charging them too much.

4/ I will be shooting mostly locked down shots where I will set the focus by half depressing the photo button, then framing. This is not a good way to shoot animals or children, but I think I can get away with it most of the time for what I do.

For stuff that goes beyond this type of template, I'll just keep using my Z7 camcorder, lights and audio gear.

I'll be messing with it tomorrow after I get it, Friday morning and on a shoot on Friday afternoon. If I don't like it I'll return it. I'll post my experience with this camera after that here.

Don't forget to add a Hoodman or other focus aid, even with the D5100 flip out screen you will have difficulty seeing the image on the bare LCD screen on a bright day.

I have been using both the D7000 and D5100 over the last month and you will have to take the camera out a few times for practice runs, once you get used to the HDSLR the results will be good. I am using the D7000 with a 10-24mm lens as a wide angle setup to compliment my Sony EX3, it works well.

Which Hoodman is best for the D5100's articulating screen?

Well my dc-bias powered microphonemadness.com mics work perfectly with the D5100! This is huge to me. It means that I can do an interview that sounds top notch with an audio kit that fits in my pocket!

I found a loupe at dealextreme.com but I'm not sure if it's good enough. The Nikon adapter works like a dream though!

The Nikon adapter works like a dream though!
Which one would that be?

Check dealextreme.com. There's only one.

Vincent i'm very curious about your stuff.....
Where can i see it?

Which Hoodman is best for the D5100's articulating screen?

Laurence -- I use the $25 Hoodman HD300 (http://www.adorama.com/HNHD300VIDEO.html) on my GH2's flip out LCD (which is 3" -- the same size as the D5100 screen). Very helpful in sunlight.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution (http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com)

As a Nikon D90 owner as well as a large collection of old and new Nikon lenses I'm looking at the D5100 as a compliment to my EX1. I have to shoot in 25p.

How likely is it that Nikon would add full manual options to the D5100 firmware? Have they ever added more control? I've looked at Nikon Rumors past posts and it seems unlikely?

I'm sure at some point there will be a Nikon camera that does what we all want, it's just holding fire until then.

I might just get it anyway as I shoot a lot of stills at home, and manual controls aren't always necessary as long as you can lock exposure down.

I have the exposure lock button set to latch and it works just fine. If you set the D5100 HDMI port to PAL, 25p becomes one of your format options. In aperture priority mode you can set the aperture and focus manually. Exposure is automatic but you can add or subtract from it easily and then lock it down with a single button push. Definitely good enough for me.

If you shoot in 720p mode, the footage will play back natively on an iPad. I can immediatly edit this footage with an app called "Splice" but not iMovie for the iPad. Anything I export the the camera roll from splice can be edited in iMovie however.

I edit with Sony Vegas and a not too powerful 2 core laptop. On that computer I need an intermediate to work with 1080p, but 720 edits natively as easily as standard definition! Very cool.

Hi, so another couple of questions. Can you zoom into the video image to check focus on the 5100? And what does the HDMI output do during recording? Duncan.

There is a function to digitally zoom way in to check your focus. I don't know what the HDMI port is outputting when you shoot. I'll see if I can check it out tomorrow. Good question.

Great Thanks.

It's also worth asking does the zoom in function allow you to more around the frame too. And does it stayed zoomed in while recording to help with focus pulls?

Thanks.

Vincent i'm very curious about your stuff.....
Where can i see it?


Sorry for the late reply. We are currently working on a new DVD title "a guide to HDSLR video" This should be released mid August. A sampler will be cover mounted on What Digital Camera magazine, October issue, out in September.

I will be setting up a web page with a sampler chapter on my web site photo-i.co.uk

Great Thanks.

It's also worth asking does the zoom in function allow you to more around the frame too. And does it stayed zoomed in while recording to help with focus pulls?

Thanks.

No, once you start recording the zoom goes back to normal viewing.You can move the frame about by using the rear cursor keys. Press the centre OK button to instantly go back to full image view with the focus square back in the default location.

OK well after watching this short: Fragments on Vimeo I've ordered a D5100.

It's good to see properly structured narrative work, instead of the usual 'bloke film out of a window, drifting the shot around until you find something in focus' type stuff. The pictures looked very clean and it wasn't all about small DOF thanks goodness.

So the next thing will be to get my head around the locking down exposure situation.
I hope new firmware does come along to do this, it'll be easier to get repeatable results then.

Finger's crossed.

By the way I bought the UK spec D5100 from here: BNIB ? NIKON D5100 DSLR CAMERA & 18-55mm ZOOM LENS KIT | eBay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270778569467) very cheap and with the 18-55VR (which I'll put on my D90 when I sell it)

Great video, Duncan. Thanks for sharing.