I have been asked by a colleague working in the broadcast/ sub-broadcast Doco/ commercial and DSLR areas of what short shotgun mic to purchase.
His budget would allow for a Sennheiser MKH416, MKH60, ME66/K6 or Rode NTG1,NTG2& NTG3, Or even other brands.
He's thinking Sennheiser for name alone as it seems that's what his clients specify.
I have lent him a 416 for a shoot and he came back staggered at the improvement over the ME66/K6 he has previously used.
He has phantom power available most times.
Also what windshield? a full blimp or just a softy, he would be shooting outdoors at times but NOT in adverse conditions.

My first choice now would be the new Sennheiser MKH 8060 (http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/professional_wired-microphones_broadcast-eng-film_504240).

http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/products.nsf/resources/9F2D8E1778932F68C125786500295A1B/$File/MKH_8060_ProductImage.jpg

Same diameter, same directivity, but shorter than the MKH 416.

Better quality than both the 416 and the 60 and with an improved off-axis response. Plus, all the potions of the MKH 8000 series including an AES42 digital module.

Otherwise - the Schoeps SuperCMIT.

Full Rycote windshield kit or an S-series would be better than a softie - in fact the Rycote MiniScreen with it's Windjammer is better and cheaper than a Softie ;-)

If price isn't an issue, the Sanken CS3e is worth consideration...

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/477209-sanken-cs-3e-magic-mic.html

I would also recommend the Sanken CS-3e. Great mic. There are a couple of good comparisons on the board as well as a really good comparison between several shotguns but it is a little old.

Sorry I can't find the link right now but I've read through it several times.

-Garrett

Hello John:

Have you been able to get a hold of an 8060? Impatiently waiting to hear some recordings! :)

Any word on if it handles interiors better than the MKH60 (ala CMIT)?


My first choice now would be the new Sennheiser MKH 8060 (http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/professional_wired-microphones_broadcast-eng-film_504240).

http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/products.nsf/resources/9F2D8E1778932F68C125786500295A1B/$File/MKH_8060_ProductImage.jpg

Same diameter, same directivity, but shorter than the MKH 416.

Better quality than both the 416 and the 60 and with an improved off-axis response. Plus, all the potions of the MKH 8000 series including an AES42 digital module.

Otherwise - the Schoeps SuperCMIT.

Full Rycote windshield kit or an S-series would be better than a softie - in fact the Rycote MiniScreen with it's Windjammer is better and cheaper than a Softie ;-)

This article is useful, along with its sound samples:

As I Hear It - Choosing the Right Microphone (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html)

It covers some of the microphones discussed here in a consistent set of tests.

David, thanks. That's the article I was referring to.

-Garrett

Hello John:

Have you been able to get a hold of an 8060? Impatiently waiting to hear some recordings! :)

Any word on if it handles interiors better than the MKH60 (ala CMIT)?

Yes, I have handled it several times.

But I have not used it for recording as I don't need another gun mic.

It should handle interiors better as the off-axis response has been improved according to Sennheiser.

But I do have both the 8020 and 8040 and am extremely happy with them.

John,
There is a new Sennheiser MKH 8070 microphone available for preorder from B&H. Sennheiser MKH 8070 - Long Shotgun Microphone MKH 8070 B&H Photo Any idea how it is? And what is the difference from the MKH 70?

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

John,
There is a new Sennheiser MKH 8070 microphone available for preorder from B&H. Sennheiser MKH 8070 - Long Shotgun Microphone MKH 8070 B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/762307-REG/Sennheiser_MKH_8070_MKH_8070_Long.html) Any idea how it is? And what is the difference from the MKH 70?

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

From seeing it in the flesh, I would say that the polar-pattern is more like the old MKH 816.

It seems to have a longer interference tube than the 70, which would make it more directional.

But I think that Sennheiser have improved the off-axis response very much in these new microphones and reducing the comb-filter effect a lot.

Thanks John. That's what Sennheiser's press release said, hoping the improved off-axis response is indeed true. I do like the sound of the 8050/8040, handling issues aside.

Looking forward to putting an ear on the 8060.


Yes, I have handled it several times.

But I have not used it for recording as I don't need another gun mic.

It should handle interiors better as the off-axis response has been improved according to Sennheiser.

But I do have both the 8020 and 8040 and am extremely happy with them.

I do like the sound of the 8050/8040, handling issues aside.


Handling issues are easily sorted.

1) Use a Rycote "Lyre" suspension (InVision, S-series or full windshield kit)

2) de-couple the mic. from the normal cable by using a Rycote S-series XLR tail or ConnBox.

I mount all my mics this way now.

John:

Thanks for the feedback.

I was able to use a friend's 8050 on a short film in conjunction with my MKH50. The 8050 sounded great but required a much lighter touch on the boom (Rycote Lyre mounted and modified ConnBox w/ smaller gauge cable). With a light touch and LF rolled off on the SD442, that rig seems to work in less dynamic situations...the bigger issue is the flutter/whoosh when swinging the mic around. The 8050 was rigged with a Schoeps BD5 hollow drop and still had issues from time to time. I assume a step up from there is the Rycote windscreen rig that you mentioned but that's increasing the size and weight of these conveniently small/light mics.

My primary mic is the MKH50 w/ BBG & Rycote Lyre combo which handles much better, no flutter/whoosh. I personally would be reluctant to depend on the 8050 for dynamic boom work as a result of this. He also has an 8040 and reports similar difficulties.


Handling issues are easily sorted.

1) Use a Rycote "Lyre" suspension (InVision, S-series or full windshield kit)

2) de-couple the mic. from the normal cable by using a Rycote S-series XLR tail or ConnBox.

I mount all my mics this way now.

John:

Thanks for the feedback.

I was able to use a friend's 8050 on a short film in conjunction with my MKH50. The 8050 sounded great but required a much lighter touch on the boom (Rycote Lyre mounted and modified ConnBox w/ smaller gauge cable). With a light touch and LF rolled off on the SD442, that rig seems to work in less dynamic situations...the bigger issue is the flutter/whoosh when swinging the mic around. The 8050 was rigged with a Schoeps BD5 hollow drop and still had issues from time to time. I assume a step up from there is the Rycote windscreen rig that you mentioned but that's increasing the size and weight of these conveniently small/light mics.

My primary mic is the MKH50 w/ BBG & Rycote Lyre combo which handles much better, no flutter/whoosh. I personally would be reluctant to depend on the 8050 for dynamic boom work as a result of this. He also has an 8040 and reports similar difficulties.

By Schoeps BD5, do you mean B5D?

If so, this is just a foam windshield.

The MKH 800o series all come complete with special foam windscreens that are made from two different foam layers. To keep things small and light you could put a Rycote Special Windjammer ofer the standard foam windshields.

The MKH 8040 and 8050 have a better bottom end response than the MKH 40 and 50 so this is the likely cause of the flutter. Have you tried the MZF 8000 filter module?

I hope this helps.

Yes - sorry - the B5D. It's a bit more than a foam windscreen with the internal plastic structure, gives some more air than a traditional foam windscreen does. Works decent actually (I believe initially suggested by Glen Trew), still keeps it small at the end of the pole.

I'll have to suggest the windjammer, see if that works. I was able to make it work but definitely not a rig I'd be entirely confident on anything but predictable scripted and sit-down interview work. The mic's owner has done a bunch of research, reached out to folks, and hasn't found any magic bullet yet, even thinking about selling them off.

I haven't tried the MZF 8000 filter module, a bit expensive and the low cut specs don't seem to play like the MKH50...

-3dB @ 160Hz (Switchable)
-3dB @ 16Hz (Fixed)

If they came out with one similar to the built in low cut on the MKH50, I'd go for that I think, manual say it is 4db at 50Hz I believe.

Thanks for the feedback, they are great mics, worth tinkering to make them more user friendly.

By Schoeps BD5, do you mean B5D?

If so, this is just a foam windshield.

The MKH 800o series all come complete with special foam windscreens that are made from two different foam layers. To keep things small and light you could put a Rycote Special Windjammer ofer the standard foam windshields.

The MKH 8040 and 8050 have a better bottom end response than the MKH 40 and 50 so this is the likely cause of the flutter. Have you tried the MZF 8000 filter module?

I hope this helps.

BTW - sorry for veering this post OT.

To offer input on Brian's initial question, I'd recommend the CS3e as well, great mic. I've had mine for over a year now and been really happy with it, aside from the self noise (not such an issue on most exteriors). I have noticed the self noise come up a bit after being out in humid conditions but that could also be tired ears at the end of the day. Best thing about the CS3e above all of the other options you mentioned is that it would probably behave much better indoors.

For wind protection, I'd always opt for better wind protection rather than marginal. When you are in a spot where the situation gets bad unexpectedly it's really the difference between good and totally unusable. A softie can work at times but other times just more worthwhile to throw the zep/fuzzy on and be done with it...the full Rycote windshield kit is wonderful.

I've been shooting with the Sennheiser ME66/K6 for over twenty years and I love it. It's never let me down, and quite often amazed me.

Yes - sorry - the B5D. It's a bit more than a foam windscreen with the internal plastic structure, gives some more air than a traditional foam windscreen does.

The windshield supplied with the MKH 8000 series is also not a normal foam windshield.

It has the normal fine foam on the outside and coarser more open foam on the inside (you can feel it with your finger).

Wind protection is purely down to the volume of still air you can trap round the microphone - the larger the volume, the better the protection.

What about the Neumann 81i/82i?

I've always found the Neumann shotgun mics sound dull and flat compared to the 416.

Anyway decision has been made [why I stared the thread] phone calls from 3 different local / interstate clients ALL specifying the 416 for their shoots.

I'm curious, is this a general impression or have you literally compared the 416 and Neumanns with other variables controlled?

I was for 20+ years employed by a broadcast TV station the OB and location crews had access to a vast array of microphones from Sennheiser 416/ 816, MKH 60 / 70, Neumann 82's, Audio Technica, Sony with Rycote or Sennheiser blimps and they were able to use whatever they wanted. I was often surprised that from approx 10 sound guys the Neumanns were consistently the last to be used. Even the long Audio Technica shot gun mics were used before the Neumanns on OB'S [mainly for the directional pattern and extra reach]
I've now been working totally freelance for several years now and haven't seen a single Neumann of any type from any of the production companies and networks I work for.

The Neumann 81i and 82i are, in fact, extremely nice mics. I actually have an 81i (almost 30 years old now).

They are not used so much because people forget about them and only think of Neumann as a company that produce studio mics.

They do sound different from the Sennheisers though, and if you are used to a 416 you might find the transition difficult. Also they are not RF condensers like the Sennheiser MKH series are and therefore not so good in damp conditions.

I purchased the Sanken CS3e about a year ago after a lot of research and comparisons. I primarily use it indoors in a controlled interview setting. Matter of act I used it today in just such a situation. As has been mentioned it's expensive but I'm very happy with my investment. I'll have the opportunity to use it outdoors later this year and I'm anxious to hear the results.