If you plan to use GH2s for run and gun work such as weddings, I'd like to offer suggestions if you come from a conventional video background. This is based on my first serious attempt at using the cameras without a regular video camera backup.

1. Take a video camera and run it from the back if possible.
2. Use a 20mm pancake on your primary GH2/GH1, or equivalent and run it from the back.
3. Run two gh1/gh2s with Panasonic or other compatible lenses, such as Olympus zoom and your 20mm and run your third with a prime of your choice.
4. If you are using a variety of primes, have an adapter for each lens already installed and ready to go.
5. I found Manual Movie mode in Shutter priority with Auto ISO the best overall setting, it worked well for me in a real world use of the cameras.

Curious why you felt the GH2 was so difficult to use and why a video camera and/or GH2 on wide in the back is necessary? Is it because the GH2 form factor is so much smaller than the Canon 60d/7d/5dii?

I am edting this post, was thinking of another post.

Anyway, I come from a regular video camera background, and yes, between the size, and operating on the fly, it is certainly not easy at first. I have on numerous occasions, while handheld changed a setting uninintentionally, which holds things up.

All I can suggest is that you buy one and try it, and see how it works for you.

The form factor is wrong for video, great for stills. Focusing is a critical issue with any photo lens and not easy for video on the fly with the traditional photo lenses that cameras like the GH2 use.. A GH2 on a shoulder brace solves the form factor problems for steady non-tripod work. Quick, accurate focusing I haven't solved yet (cheaply).

William, I just returned from the local park, shooting handheld walking shots with the camera, the footage is completely useless.

I've never been particularly great at handheld, but could always pull something out of my footage. Not with this camera.

If I'm stationary, that is one thing, but walking, every little movement is like an earthquake.

The secret, I think, is learning how to to work within the confines of the camera's restrictions (in other words learning how to shoot all over again) and going from there.

I agree, it really is not a great form-factor for video, at least not coming from a video camera background. The idea of adjusting focus while shoulder mounted sounds daunting as well.

I think a Glidecam 1000HD is in my future.

It will make a world of difference, the video will look great. Take a look at the Blackbird too. They are on of the forum's sponsors. Because the GH2 is light you don't need a big rig. I have the Blackbird but it took me a long time to get decent with it and I am still learning. But it would be a great setup for moving down the isle or shooting the dancing Jeff.

It seems like a lot of the complaints about the wrong form factor are applicable to all DSLRs being used as video cameras. Critical focus is hard on any HDSLR/EVIL or similar with just a 3" LCD screen. I suspect even the right form factor video cameras AF-100 and FS-100 have a hard time achieving good focus with just the LCD screen alone.

I use an 8" Lilliput monitor for focusing, even if it can't display 1080p. It has 800x600 resolution. At 8", I'd say it's probably good enough for critical focus by eye without the need of expanded focus or peaking or anything?

I also have a Blackbird stabilizer, Zazaslider, various Manfrotto tripods and monopods, and a Spiderbrace. I would be hard pressed to find a truly handheld situation with the GH2 at a wedding. At the least, it'd be on a Manfrotto monopod or Spiderbrace or something.

So I guess when I hear things like "learning to shoot again within the camera's confines," I'm not sure what that means when no specifics are mentioned. Learning to shoot again coming from a real video camera background? Learning to shoot again coming from Canon DSLRs? Learning to shoot again from what?

And what specific confines of the GH2? Other than the small size (smaller than a Canon DSLR like the 60d) and easy to mash up buttons. I agree that the GH2 is too small to fit comfortably in your hand, but I feel the Canon 60d size is perfect. However, considering that most shots won't be with the camera in my hand...probably not a big deal?

William, I just returned from the local park, shooting handheld walking shots with the camera, the footage is completely useless.

I've never been particularly great at handheld, but could always pull something out of my footage. Not with this camera.

If I'm stationary, that is one thing, but walking, every little movement is like an earthquake.

The secret, I think, is learning how to to work within the confines of the camera's restrictions (in other words learning how to shoot all over again) and going from there.

I agree, it really is not a great form-factor for video, at least not coming from a video camera background. The idea of adjusting focus while shoulder mounted sounds daunting as well.

That's why I posted the garden footage a couple of weeks ago, not that I was especially proud of it. I'll post a little of last week's run and gun at some point this week. I am in the middle of a shoot with the camera right now and the focus is very tricky even on a tripod if the subject is moving around.

Just got back from the park. I decided I didn't make enough of an effort to keep camera steady yesterday, so I tried it again. From the looks of things on the LCD it seemed I was pretty smooth, I was certain footage would be great.

Boy, was I wrong. Absolutely unusable, by any standards!

However on stationary shots the park looked very nice, footage was really gorgeous.

Wow, sounds like focus is really hard to do on the GH2, even on a tripod...much less moving shots.

How hard is focusing on the GH2 compared to focusing on the Canon 60d/7d?

What makes focusing on the GH2 so difficult? Because if its even difficult on a tripod, it would seem like a useless camera...

It's only difficult if you have no experience with the format. It's just that many of us here come from using only regular video cameras, at least that is my case. But as you learn the lenses it will get better.

Thanks! That's great news, since I come from a Canon DSLR background.

The smaller MFT image sensor size of the GH2 versus the APS-C of the 7D/60D or full frame 5DII means that depth of field will greater at identical aperture for lenses with the same field of view so nailing focus will be easier. A 25mm lens at F/2 focused at 10' on the GH2 has a DOF of just under 3' whereas at the same aperture the equivalent 40mm lens on the 7D/60D has a DOF of 1.46' & the equivalent 50mm on the 5DII has a DOF of 1.45'.

Focusing on a GH2 isn't that hard, it's much easier than a Canon 7d because all the 7d has is an LCD that doesn't even swivel. The 7d's VF is optical and is disabled in video mode. The GH2 has an awesome VF, the thing that makes all the difference is the lens.

The viewfinder is much easier to focus with than the LCD. Very sharp. My shoot required low light and close-ups of sparkly jewelry on moving hands. Even at 5.6 I had a time keeping the rings and bracelets in focus using the LCD. To save battery power I opted not to drive an HDMI monitor which would have made my job even easier. It didn't help that the hand models were not trained for this and would unconsciously move their arms out of the focal plain. All said, I very happy working this camera. The results where excellent and if I get permission I'll post some stills. I hope that some more video style lenses get released in the future.

Hi Jeff

I have been pondering for a while now about adding a GH2 to my two HMC82's but your comments about the stock Panny lenses are a little worrying!! As are the footage results walking with the camera.

At weddings I do tons of walking shots with my HMC's with great results and one cam is normally on my Stedicam during the photoshoot. It seems that even in the normal low light we have at receptions the Panny lenses are not that good????

Come on, convince me that a GH1 or GH2 would be worth adding to the two HMC's while shooting weddings!! Seriously, in your opinion, where in a wedding would the GH cameras outshine video or should I stop dreaming and stick with my current cameras only. I could maybe see the advantage of using a GH during an outdoor ceremony or during a photoshoot but on stedicam I would have to stop right down and rely on the GH autofocus as I haven't got 4 hands!!!

Chris

Chris, keep in mind a few things when reading my posts.

1. I whine when confronted with difficulties, it is my nature, not proud of it, but that is me.

2. I am 56 years old, so I adapt and learn as fast as I can, but I can be slow on the uptake at times.

3. Coming from a video background, these cameras are a challenge, period, probably for anyone but the quickest and brightest.

4. The results are fantastic, when used properly.

Someone around here asked about buying a GH2 for a b cam, and in the end he left much more confused after the mulititude of opinions, I'm sure. I even waffled at the time, first I recommended it, then I started to deal with the learning curve, and I backed off. It has not been easy to learn for me.

On the other hand, I am fully back in full recommendation mode for the cam, ESPECIALLY as a b camera. IMO, you must buy a panny 20mm f/1.7. Use it wide from the rear, and you really can't go wrong.

I am a very big proponent of buying a GH1 to start, with the 20mm lens. It is cheap, and for under $800 you have an excellent camera you can set and forget in most situations.

It is not the GH2, but the f/1.7 lens compensates for that.

Put it in shutter priority, with auto ISO, focus it, and forget it. Trust me, you'll have so much fun with the damned thing (if you're not using it as a primary camera) you will certainly fall in love with it.

My biggest struggle is focusing moving things, and this is true with anyone using DSLR form factor who is new to the game. However, if you use it from the rear in a church, you can just focus on the altar, get a beautiful wide shot, and you won't have to worry about focus. Same at the reception. Put it up high, like 8 feet, point it down on the dance floor, and turn it on and forget it.

You can do it. You are smart, experienced with video, and it will open up a whole new world. My opinion on the kit lenses is well known. They are not professional lenses, which no one can argue, but the 14-45 and 14-140 can be used professionally outdoors and will produce excellent results. They can also be used indoors with sufficient lighting. But my money is better spent on fast lenses that are useful everywhere in a wider range of conditions. A 14-140 at f/4-5.6 has such limited use for me I sold it and got a Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 that works well everywhere, outdoor and indoor, and it cost 1/3 the price of the Panasonic, and it still has autofocus when I need it. The Sigma is not a pro lens either, but a decent quality zoom at 2.8 is close enough for me. It is still slower than I like but a 2.0 zoom costs over $2K, so there you have it.

Just got back from the park.
Boy, was I wrong. Absolutely unusable, by any standards!
However on stationary shots the park looked very nice, footage was really gorgeous.

Entirely agree with you Jeff. I'm the same with my 60D - soon as I move away from rest, however careful and controlled I am, the earth moves so2speak. Admittedly I'm not using IS Canon lenses, but everything seems to be against me.

Go do the same shots on my NX5 and although I seem to have infinite dof all the while, at least every shot is usable. I read about wedding shooters doing the whole day with DSLRs and I gawp in admiration and respect.

tom.

Hey Jeff

That certainly is a concise and accurate summary!! Don't feel left out at all!! I whine too and I'm a lot older (64) so I probably struggle even more than you!!!

I truely was expecting to use a GH as an "up front" camera with stunning closeups using a decent DOF rather than plonk it in the background as a "B" cam. I was under the impression that ONLY the kit lenses can be used for autofocus ....something like a Sigma zoom sounds more my style (coming from a photography background about 30 years back when we used film!!) So a 18-50 Sigma zoom on the correct adaptor will still allow the camera to run autofocus???? I really would use a GH during my photoshoots on the Stedicam but manual focus is not an option at all...my hands are too busy controlling the rig and yelling directions to the bride and groom!!!

I normally run a main camera (fixed) about 30' from the B&G and that also has the wireless mics and then I use the 2nd cam on my shoulder to shoot cutaways of the guests and closeups of the ceremony...it would be great to be able to grab a GH and shoot some rather nice shots of the rings, and more if you think that a GH would handle that... we are also talking hand held here too!!!! I'm watching the main camera's field of view..checking audio levels and also have the 2nd camera clamped between my legs grabbing it now and again to shoot the guests and any necessary closeups....if I added a GH to the mix it would definately have to be a run and gun with maybe aperture priority so I can achieve a shallow DOF but it still needs to autofocus if I don't have time to adjust it!!!

Too much for one person?????

Chris

Come on, convince me that a GH1 or GH2 would be worth adding to the two HMC's while shooting weddings!! Seriously, in your opinion, where in a wedding would the GH cameras outshine video

I can't convince you Chris. I used the GH1 with its stock (slow) 10x zoom to make a short film and unless it's a tightly-scripted piece where actors hit their marks you'll be avoiding tele like the plague simply because of the focus issue.

OK, the GH1 has a continuous auto-focus mode but it's slow and noisy and cranky (GH2 must be better). And if you're after limited dof there must be better ways of getting this than by using the GH1's small 4/3rds chip in combination with a slow (f/6.3) lens. At least it's stabilised.

tom.

Good, Tom, it is not just me then! I was starting to wonder!

Chris, you don't need to worry about depth of field, it's plenty shallow even at f/6. Aperture priority is a pain, at least I found it so. You can buy a GH1 with no lens, and then buy then 20mm. You can shoot photos of the cake, do zooms in post, etc, same with rings, then flick a switch, pop in on the tripod and shoot more video.

I suggest the GH1 and 20mm because minimal investment. You can learn with that lens. It won't work for closeups of ceremony, but you'd have time to learn the camera then lens. When you have, you could add another lens. The 20mm is useful for SO many things, it is where I'd start, but that is just me.

The Sigma is hard to find, when I looked I found one in China, one down under, and lucked out and found one locally.

Thanks Jeff

My supplier here has the Sigma to fit Canons 17 - 50mm F2.8 and also the 18 - 70mm F2.8 ....they seem to be around the $700 mark here (GH adaptor is $50 on top) The GH1 body only here is close to $1200!!!

The GH1 (and GH2???) have crop factors of 2.0 ??? Is that correct???? So the 20mm lens would be much like a 35mm 40mm lens and the Sigma zoom would effectively be like using a 35 - 100 in the old format or 35 - 140 ..... Now, F3.5 lenses are WAY cheaper of course but then we are back to the kit lens specs!!

I'll look around on eBay and see what else is available!!! Your GH's are way cheaper than ours and our dollar is actually higher than the US $

The info is much appreciated ..it's bedtime for me !!!!

Chris

Chris, go down the chart to Sigma and make sure the ones you're talking about are the same as on the chart for compatability.

Compatibilities of DMC-GH2 | Compatibility | Digital Camera | Product Support | Support | Panasonic Global (http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/connect/gh2.html)

Yes Chris - the 4/3rds chip has a 2x crop factor so wide wide-angles are scarce.

Oh yes, if you are going the 2.8, you will be better of with GH2, as you'll need to run higher iso with it, and the GH1 is poor above 400. With the 20mm lens you wouldn't need the GH2, with the Sigma I woud think you would.

Jeff,

Why do you only consider the GH2 a B-cam and not suited for the primary cam? I see many people using DSLR/EVILs as their main cam (or might even only have 3 DSLRs and nothing else)...

Granted, you're coming from a video background so it makes your usage of DSLRs/EVILs harder...but assuming you are comfortable with a Canon DSLR as a primary cam, would then GH2 serve well as a primary cam then? Would you recommend the GH2 as a primary cam then?

Thanks!

I was thinking of still using my HMC as a primary cam and a GH2 as a "second" primary cam for the more creative shots as my main cam does all the audio as well.

The only problem is can I justify the purchase??? I would be happier with a DSLR on a shoulder mount rig and maybe even an extra LCD....take a GH2 body, a decent 2.8 lens or faster and a rig and monitor and over in Oz I'm looking at a cost of probably between $2500 and $3000 at least!!!! The body and a Sigma lens alone will cost be $2000!!!! A faster lens will be even more!!!

Still pondering!!!

Chris

Zhong, I don't know exactly what comment you're referring to. I use the GH2 as my primary camera.

Please do not focus so much on my perspective, there are too many others. I just comment a lot, I do not have the best or "correct" opinion on this issue.

You should get the camera and let us know what you think! I'm sure you will like it.

Chris, the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 EX DC MACRO is only available used, so make sure you're looking at the right one. There is a newer version available, but it is not listed onn the compatability chart.

One reason I recommend the GH1 and 20mm is cost, you end up with a very nice second cam for cheap, great in low light, and you can test the waters with it without a huge investment. It operates essentially the same as a GH2, but without a few features, such as the touch screen. But the GH1 still has great auto focus, and if you really like it you can get the GH2 later.

I have both cameras, and yes the GH2 has better specs, etc, but with the 20mm f/1.7 lens the GH1 is essentially the same camera, with a slightly bigger sensor and a few nice features, but as a rear cam you will not need those features anyway!

I think your idea of sticking with the HMC150 as your main cam is a great idea, it is what lots of others do. Starting with a GH1/GH2 as a backup or 2nd cam is a perfect/practical way to start.

However you do it, since you have a reliable camera already, it will work out fine.

Thanks Jeff

The new Sigma is on the chart but won't autofocus but you can use the shutter button to focus.

I seriously have enough to do already without having to worry about trying to manual focus on a third camera as well. DSLR's I could handle easily in a controlled enviroment like a corporate promo shoot but maybe I'm just too old to fight these at weddings!!!

I was also wondering if the GH's have rolling shutter issues??? I saw some vertical breakup during a pan in your jewellery clip on Vimeo.... or maybe that was just Vimeo???

BTW: I shoot on 2 x HMC82's (PAL versions of the HMC80 (also known as the HMC40 put into a big box!)) However they work very well, I like a big camera on my shoulder and the XLR audio is awesome as well as ALL the controls are on the outside (looks like a 747 flight deck but they are accessable without going into any menus!!!)

To be brutally honest I'm still a bit reluctant to add a DSLR at this stage...I really do need a camera I can pick up and move with and it shoots good footage with it's current settings....your disgust at your "walk in the park footage" does worry me a bit as often I have to grab a camera and film on the run (walk) when the bride decides to talk to Aunt Jennie and wants you there to film it. What exactly is the issue with walking around with a GH1 and filming???? I do a lot of it so that would be a problem if the GH doesn't like having a run and gun operator!!

Chris

Chris,It was Vimeo, the original footage was perfect. Didn't know about the newer Sigma, that might be what I have, don't know now. I bought mine used for $350.

The Sigma certainly does have auto focus, if you look at the last two columns, unless I'm missing something. I use it all the time. It does not have tracking. You have to push shutter halfway to focus, which you can do while recording, and that, I think is auto focus.

Chris, the issue with walking around is related to the size of the camera, movement is exaggerated.

If you have a HMC 150 I would think you would not need to walk around with the GH2. Most people start with the GH2 or GH1 as a second camera, and that is how I recommend starting.

I was broke when I bought my GH2, I had to sell my FX1 to finance it, or I would still have it and be using it. I may still acquire another one. Nothing beats the ease of use of a videocamera.

Hi Jeff

I was looking at the first of the focus columns..which I assumed meant that you cannot just start the recording and it will auto focus all the time. When you use the shutter button, does it set focus (as it would it still photos) but if you move to a new position you would need to focus again????

That would be a tad tricky filming the bridal party walking down the aisle as they are constantly changing focal distance!!!

Nice to know that was a vimeo issue!! So if you mount the GH2 on a shoulder mount rig then the "wobbles" will be a lot better. The very reason I use shoulder mount cameras that weigh 8lbs each!! I can walk around and get smooth footage

PS: I have HMC82's not 150's the 150's are not shoulder mount!!

Thanks for all the feedback

Chris

Chris, you are referring to tracking and continuous focus, I believe. With my lenses I have to adjust focus all the time. AFC or continuous focus is actually a feature I have virtually never used. I intend to try it soon.

Hard to believe, eh? Well, my first wedding my second shooter used AFC mode and it hunted non stop and it was terrible, so I just never used it.

It is actually a nice feature, but I don't know how it works, really.

I have used the facial tracking thing and it can be very nice, but I don't use it much either.

I actually have to learn how to use these features yet.

Hi Jeff

I'm pretty convinced now that the GH is designed to be run in video mode in manual. The follow focus seems to hunt and really, if you treat these as manual still cameras and expose and focus manually then you can essentially use any fast vintage lens on it and get really good results.

I think my application would be using it in full manual...stick on an adapter and find a nice fast lens on eBay for the adapter and shoot in full manual. That way results are guaranteed and you can't blame the camera for soft focus.

I wonder if you can get a manual follow focus kit for the GH2??? That way even a bride walking towards you could be kept in focus easily!! Ok it's all hard work with lots of thinking and decisions but my feeling is thats the correct way to run the camera and not expect it to "point and shoot"

I would seriously look at a GH2 on a rig (ideally with follow focus gears) and shoot in full manual and I reckon that will produce pretty outstanding video. The biggest mistake I would say would trying to set the camera on auto, push the button and expect it to work like a camcorder!!

Chris

I wonder if you can get a manual follow focus kit for the GH2??? That way even a bride walking towards you could be kept in focus easily!! Ok it's all hard work with lots of thinking and decisions but my feeling is thats the correct way to run the camera and not expect it to "point and shoot"

Yes, any follow focus will work. Personally I've used the Red Rock and it's beautiful. Nice piece of machinery.

Chris, the autofocus is very handy, and I personally do use it a lot, but I'm also constantly adjusting manually. I alternate between using AFS mode and manual when using the GH2. The feature with the GH2 where you can adjust focus by touching the screen is super nice, and that is my weekend project, to get familiar with that using the 20mm.

I wonder if you can get a manual follow focus kit for the GH2??? That way even a bride walking towards you could be kept in focus easily!!

I have a follow focus on my shoulder rig and do exactly what you just described.

Thanks Patrick

I see my people at CineCity have the DSLR Kit 3 which gives you a rail system, matte box, shoulder mount and follow focus with a speed crank and whip.

That would make the GH2 into almost a video camera but with manual focus...the $864.00 price tag makes the whole setup quite expensive though and a GH2 body and a decent fast lens!!!

It would make a nice looking system with true manual focussing without having to fiddle with touch screens.

Chris

I see my people at CineCity have the DSLR Kit 3 which gives you a rail system, matte box, shoulder mount and follow focus with a speed crank and whip.

That would make the GH2 into almost a video camera but with manual focus...the $864.00 price tag makes the whole setup quite expensive though and a GH2 body and a decent fast lens!!!I am not a fan of pimping out DSLRs with a lot of gear to make them something that they are not. Half the joy of using a DSLR for video is that they are light & inconspicuous. Use a monopod if you want to stop it shaking. You don't need a shoulder rig to take the weight of the camera. Additionally my experience with a couple of purchases from CineCity (never again!) is that the quality is utter crap so that would be $864 wasted anyway.

I manual focus without the touch screen. The LCD is iffy except between shots when you can use the focal assist. While shooting the EVF is the way to go, very sharp. Touch screen focusing is neat but in the end more of a gimmick with what seems to me as limited real use.

I think a light shoulder brace is a good addition for the GH2. You can do things with that that a monopod doesn't help with. Some of the elaborate shoulder braces (that cost more than the camera) seem like overkill unless the shoot is based around the lenses. My shooting kit now includes a sturdy small metal tripod with a ball level adjust. a metal monopod and a plastic shoulder brace that breaks down into four parts. All fit into the tripod bag.