Oh man, I feel terrible. I saved up enough money to finally get an upgrade for the shotgun mic that comes with the Canon xl-1s. After taking my time and deciding what to get, I finally settled with the $279 audio technica, bought from BH Video. As excited as I was to get it, i never even opened it inside the 7 day return period (i had a bathroom remodel going on). I never even thought for a minute that it wouldn't work properly with my camera. Well, I finally started using it, hooked up to my beachtek adapter, and the sound from this mic is very low and muffled. I hooked up my sennheiser wireless and the the sound is perfect and clear, so i know the problem is not the beachtek. I did a test where i was switching the audio 1 controls from mic to audio 1 with both the shotgun mics plugged in. I played back this footage and Canon's shotgun mic was noticeably louder and much more crisp than my brand new AT shotgun mic! And I know that Canon does not specialize in sound, so I am very frustrated now! I even sent this mic to Audio Technica to make sure it wasn't just a bad mic, and the report came back that the mic was up to specs. And it still sucked on my camera. I called B&H and they wouldn't even think of letting me return it as i am a month and a half away from my purchase. They offered me $150 with me selling it as used equipment. Does anyone have any possible solutions for me concerning this mic and it's use on the Canon xl-1s?
thank you so much in advance,

Andrew Landies

First of all, what model Beachtek adapter are you using? Second. check the level of the mic versus the input sensitivity of the camera. The spec sheets say the mic outputs -40dB while the mic input for the XL1 is -55dB. You might be overloading the camera inputs. Try turning on the 20dB attentuator in the camera audio input.

The beachtek adapter I am using is the BED XA4C

thanks,
andy

Check levels all the way down the line. Beachtek set for mic level input, camera set for mic level input. Turn the in-camera att on if mic is too hot or reduce the level at the Beach.

Andy, are you sure of that model number? It's certainly not a current model, and I get zero hits on it at google.

Plus, what you are doing is very unclear. But it sounds like something is wrong. The AT897 is an outstanding mic, although not a very hot one. True, you may have to run it at higher gain levels than some others, but when you do the sound is better than most at anywhere near its price.

1. How many XLR inputs does the Beachtek have?
2. Does it have a mic/line level switch for each?
3. Does the Beach plug into the 1/8" mini jack on the cam or the RCA jacks? (The mini jack is not controlled by the external mic/audio 1 switch, its control is in the menu)
4. Exactly how were the AT897 and the Senn wireless each connected when you made that comparison?
5. Exactly how was everything connected when you made the 897 vs. Canon shotgun comparison?

If all else fails, you can certainly do a lot better than $150 on eBay. I paid $139 for a Canon DM-50 shotgun almost a year ago and sold it on eBay for $115 a few weeks ago.

Thanks guys. I will try to answer these questions as best as possible. I am a newcomer to prof. video, so ive been wrestling with your comments a bit. Here is a link to the beach tek I have Fred:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=136397&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

so my initial post was wrong. it's a beach tek DXA-4.

Fred when you say the AT897 is a great mic, but not hot, what do you mean? Does "hot" refer to how loud it can receive sound?

1. The beachtek has 2 xlr inputs

2. The beachtek DOES have a mic/line switch for each xlr input. i have them both on mic when im testing microphones.

3. the beachtek plugs into the RCA jacks. You can choose to plug it into the audio rca jacks or the audio 2 rca jacks.

4. I plugged the sennheiser wireless into the far left xlr input on the beachtek, set the switch to mic, set the front switch on the beachtek to mono, plugged the beachtek into the audio 1 rca jack inputs on the camera. went into the menu of the camera and chose audio 1...mic. then i tested the mic on manual and auto volumes and had headphones on to listen to how well the sound was coming through. the sound was excellent. after that, i disconnected the sennheiser and plugged the AT897 into the same port the sennheiser was plugged into, set it up exactly as I had the sennheiser and then tested on manual and auto volumes. on manual low volumes you could barely hear anything from this mic in the headphones, in auto, you could barely hear anything from this mic. in manual operation with the volume turned all the way up, you could hear the mic, but it was low and muffled, especially compared to the sennheiser.

5. i set up the at 897 exactly the same as i did in 4, and with canon's mic plugged into it's normal spot, i went to the audio 1 controls on the side of the camera and switched the switch between "mic" and "audio 1". And with the headphones on, i could listen to the 2 different mics compared to eachother, throughout all variations of volume change......manual, auto, high, low, etc. The stock Canon mic was unquestionably louder and clearer than the AT 897.


Steve, i have not yet tried running the AT897 with the settings being to Mic Lin ATT in the menu setup. I will try that, thanks.

"The spec sheets say the mic outputs -40dB while the mic input for the XL1 is -55dB. You might be overloading the camera inputs. Try turning on the 20dB attentuator in the camera audio input."

wouldn't that mean that the camera can handle more dB than the mic has to output?????

thanks so much for your help to all!
Andy

and to add one more thing.....in all my tests, i not only tested through headphones at the time of recording, but also tested the mics by playing back on tv (as to make sure there was nothing wrong with my headphones)!
andy

I'm trying to remember... the Xl1s does NOT have phantom power, no? Is there a battery in your AT 897? Is it oriented properly? Check the bass rolloff switch too.

Uh...is the AT897 expecting phantom power? The DXA-4 doesn't have phantom power does it? So did you have the battery inline in the mic since you weren't providing phantom power and have you tried a new battery to see if the one that came with the mic was dead?

Sorry if you've already tried this.

the mic does not run on phantom power. i did try putting a different battery in the mic, no luck. I believe the battery was oriented properly ( i followed the instructions in putting the battery in). how do i check the bass rolloff switch? and what should I be checking for?

thanks so much guys!
andy

The AT897 does run on phantom, it might be that you're not providing it. The DX-4 doesn't offer phantom, so you'll need to have a fresh battery, put in correctly. As far as orientation, that won't affect the mic to the point of very low volume, you just want the ports to be facing sideways.
On the bass rolloff switch, you'll see a flat line, and a slightly "bent" line. If you have rolloff enabled, the switch will be on the side of the slightly bent line, and if rolloff is disabled, the switch will be to the flat line. I believe the flat line is towards the back of the mic, and the "bent" line is towards the front. I'm too lazy to walk up 2 floors and look in the shop to know for sure. Maybe someone has an 897 next to their desk to confirm or dispute this.

Damn DSE, I had to walk all the way into the den to pick it up. Yeah, the "Rolloff" or curved line is towards the front.

should it be in the bent line or staight line position?
thanks,
andy

Andy,
With the switch in the 'rolloff' position, it will decrease the 'bass rumble' you get from airplanes, wind noise and such. But it's not going to make the mic go all silent on you.

I'm thinking it's a bad battery first. Then your connection at the Beachtek second. I use the mic with an xl2 and it's fine, I like it a lot. If AT says it's working... then the problem is between the mic and the line in.

Damn DSE, I had to walk all the way into the den to pick it up. Yeah, the "Rolloff" or curved line is towards the front.

Better you walking to the den than me up 2 flights and down half a one. I'm getting old. :-)

Thanks for confirming what I thought was real.

Andy, where the switch goes is determined by where you're recording. You might want to leave it to the roll off position for most things, just for clarity of sound. As Richard mentions, the position of that switch won't change anything in terms of volume, just response. (which is a volume of sorts, if you want to get really technical)

Andy,
How are you connecting the 897 to the Beachtek? Using an XLR cable or XLR to 3.5mm (1/8") connection?

Revising.....

Andy, sorry for the delay, still with us?

...Fred when you say the AT897 is a great mic, but not hot, what do you mean? Does "hot" refer to how loud it can receive sound?Basically, yes. For a given actual sound level, the AT897 puts out a somewhat lower signal voltage than some other mics. But this can be compesated for with your gain controls, and is not the source of your problem.

I'm a little confused as to how you connect the BeachTek to RCA jacks. All it has is a 1/8" stereo mini plug, no? Are you using an adapter cable or something? If so, there could be a problem with that. Try plugging the Beach directly into the mic jack in place of the XL1's shotgun. Cam switch set to mic, menu set to mic, Beachtek set to mic, Beachtek volume control all the way up (of course). Try both channels of the Beach, in mono and stereo to expose any possible flukiness on its part.

Other than that, I don't see anything wrong with your approach, so the BeachTek would move up on the suspect list. They've been known to have problems with particular units here and there, but they're great to work with if that's the case.

To find out, get youself one of these for $10:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=158476&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
If you get better results by plugging the AT897 directly into the camera's mic jack, the Beach needs to go back to BeachTek. This cable will be a permanent asset that will come in handy if you're running and gunning and don't want to lug around the Beachtek.

How is the spread of this mic? Is the field too narrow for more close in work indoors?

Shotguns aren't great indoors, but nearer is better. You want the direct sound from the source to be much stronger than reflected sound. The flattest response region for the AT897 is a 40° cone centered on the dead ahead axis. Frequencies above 5khz drop off to about -5dB at the surface of a 60° cone. So a 60° cone is a pretty good concept to work with. The numbers come from audiotechnica.com, but the opinions are mine.

If you have a shotgun and a pair of heaphones and a mixer, you can play around with it and move the shotgun off-axis as you speak into it.

I find that at about 30 degrees off-axis is where you can hear the tone of your voice change a lot.


If your boom op is skilled, he/she would know which actor is speaking next and would point the mic into place before the talent delivers the line. Moving the mic during a line can lead to a situation where you can hear the tone of the sound change. This doesn't work for rapid-fire or overlapping dialogue.

If two people are close enough, you just aim between them and they can be both in the cone where everything sounds pretty good and pretty much the same.

If you have a shotgun and a pair of heaphones and a mixer, you can play around with it and move the shotgun off-axis as you speak into it.

I find that at about 30 degrees off-axis is where you can hear the tone of your voice change a lot....Lest there be any confusion, that's consistent with what I said. Rotating a 30° angle about the axis generates a 60° cone.

testing...

http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=500/14181Pinebrook_004-med.jpg

ok, so here is how the beachtek is connected. it has a wire coming out of the front and it has a black and red jack that i plug into the audio 1 or audio 2 receiving inputs on the camera. i use audio 2 if i want to hear both my wireless and the AT897. The at897 has a 3 prong connection in the back and a 3 prong that i plug into the side of the beachtek. I hope these pictures will help. I've tried all suggestions and am still not getting any quality sound. Actually, last time i tried the mic, the sound was almost non existant.




http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=500/14181Pinebrook_004-med.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=500/14181Pinebrook_005-med.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=500/14181Pinebrook_006-med.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=500/14181Pinebrook_007-med.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=500/14181Pinebrook_008-med.jpg

thanks for any help you can give, and feel free to ask any questions about the setup.
andy

Andy,
I'm sorry for the confusion, I should have looked up the DXA-4C and seen that it had RCA connectors on it. I was hung up because all the others have 1/8" mini plugs.

So, with
(menu) mode set to 16 bit 2-channel recording
(menu) level set to mic (the Beach always puts out mic level)
(audio 1 panel) set for audio 1, manual control, balance center, volume full
Beach plugged into Audio 1 jacks
Fresh battery in the AT897
AT897 plugged into left (or right) Beach channel at mic level
AT897's Beach channel trim control full, unused channel trim control minimum (important)
Beach's mono/stereo switch set to mono

It seems you've already read all the instructions for all the devices and done all the above, but I'd go through it again methodically before contacting BeachTek, which is where this seems it is heading. Try the switch in stereo also, and then repeat the whole procedure with the AT897 in the other channel. You should get usable audio in both channels with the Beach in mono, and in one channel with the Beach in stereo.

I's use the same setup and go through the same procedure, but substitute the wireless with the used Beach channel set to line level (I assume the wireless puts out line level).

After that you're ready to talk to Harry Kaufmann. You can call, or email him at Harry@beachtek.com. Be sure to mention that the mic has been checked and cleared by Audio Technica. He'll probably have you send the Beach up to them.

While that's happening, and assuming that you don't send him the mic too, I still suggest that you order the adapter cable in the link I included in an earlier post above. It will allow you plug the AT897 in the Canon's mini jack in place of the Canon shotgun. It's only $10, and is a useful thing to have with a battery powered XLR mic.

Sorry to rehash this thread, but I had a similar experience with the AT897 and my Sony Z1U. The mic's output was incredibly low, forcing me to boost gain on the Z1U to levels I wasn't comfortable with using. I ended up returning the mic to B&H and picked up the Audio Technica AT4073a. Now that's a hot mic; 73mv output vs 10mv (both XLR w/ phantom on).

People say the AT897 is a good mic, but I don't think it's at all great with on-camera work.

James,
My experience with the AT897 on both the FX1 and the Z1 is completely different to yours.
I've used it onboard as well as handheld for interviews/ pieces to camera and it performed faultlessly.
I suggest that you may have had a defective mic to start with...

Robin

Sorry to rehash this thread, but I had a similar experience with the AT897 and my Sony Z1U. The mic's output was incredibly low, forcing me to boost gain on the Z1U to levels I wasn't comfortable with using. I ended up returning the mic to B&H and picked up the Audio Technica AT4073a. Now that's a hot mic; 73mv output vs 10mv (both XLR w/ phantom on).

People say the AT897 is a good mic, but I don't think it's at all great with on-camera work.

James, you've made your point on more than one location; several people here and elsewhere are exceptionally happy with the 897 and their Z1 and/or FX1, and/or A1.
Your difference of opinion is noted.

Yes DSE, that's why I'm writing. You claim many people are happy. I'm not. I'm trying to find out why. Is it my camera at fault, or is was it the mic to blame?

my point, James, is that you've got a thread going. No need to start seeking out and reviving old threads that might contain the 897. Stick to the thread you have going, please?
Thank you.