It seems to me that there is just a huge rush of people going into wedding videography lately. Is this just normal, or a surge broaght on by the current economy? Will these people just fuel next years eBay sales of low-usage cameras? Why does everyone think weddings are easy? Why do new people worry only about equipment, and never about marketing or pricing or TRAINING? Why don't any of them do the math on what it takes to make a living at it? How quickly does the "newness" wear off? It seems like typical equipment seller has done 4 weddings... Will this surge of wannabees ever let up, or is the industry doomed to always have a bunch of rookies screwing up the market and damaging its reputation? How soon will the advent of cheap HD cams force surviving pros to upgrade just to stay marketing-competitive with the wannabees?

I just don't get why so many people want to be in this market.

If you don't like it... then change professions. But I have to warn you, there is no business that doesn't hold the same truths. The fact remains, however, that if you produce a quality video at the right price, then you will have customers. A lot of the "wannabees", as you refer to them, can actually produce very high quality videos with less equipment. So now you have a choice, either do something that is far beyond their reach or learn to adjust to the market. Or I guess you can just keep whining about it.

I say bring 'em on, the more the merrier. The only way it could possibly affect your business is if there's an influx of newbies in your particular area; and that would be a good thing. Competitiveness gives you an opportunity to work smarter and produce better video than they do; plus, you'll have referrals handy for those particular brides that you don't want to deal with!

My perception is that there isn't much competition, unless you're really competing for the bottom dollars in your area.

Based upon quantity of listings in directories for videographers & photographers, I wouldn't doubt that photographers probably out-number videographers by about 10 to 1. I bet we'd see the same type of post in a photographers forum.

Hey, I don't do weddings. The business is not attractive to me for a lot of reasons having nothing to do with this post. It just seems to me that there are an awful lot of newbies coming to the various forums saying "I am buying video equipment to be a wedding videographer. What should I get?". The normal way into this business IMHO would be home movies -> serious hobbyist -> do a wedding for a friend -> do a second one -> hang out your shingle. By the time most people do their first wedding, they would normally have 20-50 hours of shooting experience and some editing. I bet a lot of them today don't even own a one-chipper. I was just wondering if this seeming (to me) influx of posts of complete newbies is normal, or a sign of the last year or two. And if it's a new phenomenon, why?

It seems to me that there is just a huge rush of people going into wedding videography lately. Is this just normal, or a surge broaght on by the current economy? Will these people just fuel next years eBay sales of low-usage cameras? Why does everyone think weddings are easy? Why do new people worry only about equipment, and never about marketing or pricing or TRAINING? Why don't any of them do the math on what it takes to make a living at it? How quickly does the "newness" wear off? It seems like typical equipment seller has done 4 weddings... Will this surge of wannabees ever let up, or is the industry doomed to always have a bunch of rookies screwing up the market and damaging its reputation? How soon will the advent of cheap HD cams force surviving pros to upgrade just to stay marketing-competitive with the wannabees?

I just don't get why so many people want to be in this market.

Down here, the way Video is looked upon compared to photography, well all i can say is that its ALREADY DOOMED.
As for upgrading.. i wont be.. Not until my clients can watch a full HD presentation at home in its native resolution. If they want somethign shot on HDV, i tell them that what theyll be seeing is interlaced footage, NOT full res progressive scan, so SD delivery in progressive is comparable to HDV downconvert to DVD.. on top of that, i can retain my prices without increasing them to pay off my "new" gear...

The biggest problem causing this is the "easy" attitude to video editing.. yeah on the offset it may seem easy, but when we get down to technicalities, most people are lost.. this is the NLE distribution channels responsibilty... theyve been marketting their wares to the uneducated and even though this works for the consumer, its killing the profession..

This goes back to the thread of "how much do i charge"
To put it bluntly, a consumer or newbie cannot EVER get the same results i can. I have my own style in shooting and my own style in editing. THIS is what I am marketting...
Its all i CAN market at this time due to the stupid influx of "pro" producers who dont have a clue...

No seriously they dont.. Ive had about 9 potentials contact me and my studio for freelance work, and not one of them has been able to rattle off basic production info to me when being interviewed.. were talking BASIC info here that EVERYONE in the industry SHOULD know...

more responses to follow...

I consider myself fairly "new" I've been doing it for two years now. However I have had the opportunity to work for one of the best guys in my area and have learned a great deal. I do not do it full time like he does, yet the market from what I can see is still un-tapped so to speak. Networking with others here in CO has really improved the product I offer. The most unity the better I think! Some are doing junk, yet it has yet to spoil the opportunites avalible. I just have to sell, sell, sell. It's improved how I deal with each client.

If you don't like it... then change professions.



U know, thats not a bad idea... with the knowledge and current exposure of the business im actaully expanding the business to include photography...
No seriously, i once got a lead for a job which would land me $3500US for the gig.. but the client also wanted photos.. which we dont do.. (at this time... ) so i got in touch with a photographer who i heard about and offered him the gig.. it was an easy pitch BUT.. the sale went for $5500 (US)
No questions asked, the client went for it, and now this photographer HASNT sent me any leads since....
This shits me.. so i say to myself.. f*ck that shit... If you cant beat em, join em.. if u cant invade them with force, invade them with guile (their industry that is)
I compose shots exactly like a photographer would, Actually its MUCH harder for video.. Anyone can put an album together, I already have the sales and marketting engine rolling, I already have the reputation for high end products, I already know how to coordinate a wedding on the day (which is what a photographer usually ends up doing) and i know a fair bit about film photography (my background) AND by doing this i dont have to sit up late at night editing away like a moron while my children grow up around me and 20yrs later i notice ive missed it...
Yeah i'll need traingin to adapt to the Digital Still realm, and i'll do that over time.. in the meantime, ill shoot my videos and build a Photo Portfolio with my still as these wedding jobs come to pass.. this time next year then, i will have enough material and a large enough portfolio to be able to offer the service fully....



A lot of the "wannabees", as you refer to them, can actually produce very high quality videos with less equipment.
Thats because they HAVE too... Theres a fine line between what you might consider high quality to what i might consider garbage. Tastes vary with person to person, and adapting to this is essential, and having a variety of presentations to show a client during the interview is detrimental to a sale.. research the client ASK THEM what it is their looking for.. they will tell you.. then pull out a presentation of the closest thing you have to what THEY"RE looking for.. this will give them an idea of your perceptions of what it is their looking for....THATS how you nail a sale.. (as well as the a gift of the gab of course ;)

Careful, Peter... Your passion might be misconstued as "bad manners" ;-)

THATS how you nail a sale..

No, that's how you nail a sale IF you're charging full market value. For those just starting out, they appeal to the low budget clients. A lot of them do this on the side and can afford to do if for half what you charge. Doesn't matter if YOU think the video is crap... only matters what the client thinks. If they don't do a good job, then they don't get referrals.

I really can't say anything about a rush of new wedding videographers, as I avoid weddings. I am a coward when it comes to that stuff... Inlaws, outlaws, children, freaking brides- not for me. More power to you guys!

As the entry to equipment and knowledge becomes cheaper, more people will always enter. It happened with web design.

I built my 1st commercial website 10 yrs ago when only a handful of us were handcoding HTML. Then along came Hotdog, Frontpage, Coffecup etc. and then high school kids were hanging web design shingles, undercutting the competition with cheap knockoffs. And then business owners thought all they had to do was buy the software and presto they would have a website with 1000s a hit a day.

Regardless of the business you're in you have to deal new newbies entering the arena, scared to price their services so they get paid a fair wage.

Weddings probably look like the easy way to get into video production. We all know someone who's planning to get married. So people think all they have to do is purchase some equipment, print some business cards and viola here come the clients.

Hey, I don't do weddings. The business is not attractive to me for a lot of reasons having nothing to do with this post. It just seems to me that there are an awful lot of newbies coming to the various forums saying "I am buying video equipment to be a wedding videographer. What should I get?". The normal way into this business IMHO would be home movies -> serious hobbyist -> do a wedding for a friend -> do a second one -> hang out your shingle. By the time most people do their first wedding, they would normally have 20-50 hours of shooting experience and some editing. I bet a lot of them today don't even own a one-chipper. I was just wondering if this seeming (to me) influx of posts of complete newbies is normal, or a sign of the last year or two. And if it's a new phenomenon, why?

I just shot my 4th wedding on saturday. Videography has been a serious hobby of mine. I've been running camera and directing midgrade professional cameras at my church for the past 8 years or so. I've been wanting to do video professionally for a while, but just couldn't find a job in the industry due to my lack 'professional' experience. So I decided to go in business for myself, it's not that I'm inexperienced, I have probably logged 1,000's of hours behind the camera doing live events for my church.

Too be perfecly honest with you, there's very little difference between shooting a wedding, and shooting a church service.

It seems to me that there is just a huge rush of people going into wedding videography lately. Is this just normal, or a surge broaght on by the current economy? Will these people just fuel next years eBay sales of low-usage cameras? Why does everyone think weddings are easy? Why do new people worry only about equipment, and never about marketing or pricing or TRAINING? Why don't any of them do the math on what it takes to make a living at it? How quickly does the "newness" wear off? It seems like typical equipment seller has done 4 weddings... Will this surge of wannabees ever let up, or is the industry doomed to always have a bunch of rookies screwing up the market and damaging its reputation? How soon will the advent of cheap HD cams force surviving pros to upgrade just to stay marketing-competitive with the wannabees?

I just don't get why so many people want to be in this market.

Because people's expectations of wedding videography are low. The biggest problem right now is that most people see only mediocrity. The ones booking by word of mouth have very little exposure beyond their own clients. The ones that need to rely on heavy advertisement are the ones getting seen, and unfortunately those are the videos that tend to make people say 'I really don't want a video.' There is plenty of work to go around. Less than 20% of all weddings have a professional wedding videographer. People who see worthwhile wedding dvd or sde put it at the top of their list of priorities. That 20% will inevitably rise. When the good ones get booked up there is going to be more and more trickle-down to less experienced videographers. What has to happen is that the leaders in our industry have to have a higher profile - showing the public what is possible. Only when people see what good wedding videography is will their expectations change. The best in our industry shouldn't hide their online demos behind password protection or guard their dvd demos as if they are made of gold, only meeting with prospective clients face-to-face. Hand those demos out at your shoots, proudly display your clips, produce SDE's that will show people what you can do. Send your work to anyone that cares to watch it. Don't think of it as giving away your secrets. Think of it as an investment in your own future.

"How soon will the advent of cheap HD cams force surviving pros to upgrade just to stay marketing-competitive with the wannabees?"

A better question here would be how soon will high-end pros have to upgrade to some sort of HD equipment because their customers demand it? If you live in an area where lots of people are buying HDTVs, the answer to that is probably 12-24 months tops. That will become more apparent once mainstream HD DVD players start shipping, and people find out that HD/HDV video looks really good when shown on a large HDTV display. Once the tide shifts, today's HD naysayers will be pitching it to all their customers as if they'd always believed in it...

I think that the main reason for the increase in videographers in the past 6 or so years is just the accessibility of the equipment. In the Seattle area there are about 10 new companies a year. Who knows how long they will stick around, but I think that is the reason more people are trying it at least. Regardless of the equipment, it's a lot of work. As a result only a small percentage will stick around. More than last year though. I'm fine with it. It pushes me to produce better more relevant films.

A better question here would be how soon will high-end pros have to upgrade to some sort of HD equipment because their customers demand it?

I don't know if I totally agree with that. Of all the brides I've worked with over the past 5 years, very very few have even asked about my equipment. They ask if it's "Digital" (which they assume is the best) and we move on to the creative aspect of the video. I think that if your work is compelling enough SD or HD it won't really matter. I shoot a ton of Super8, I don't hear any brides complaining about my 30-year-old camera. Now, commercial jobs are a different story all together.

Jonathan
www.lumierebridal.com

i ownt be worrying about HD until my clients can go out and buy a HD dvd player, and go to the local video shop and hire a movie in HD.. until then, im not worrying about it one iota...

Why?? I mean theyre not paying for me to use an Avid adrenaline system, and theyre not paying me for master tapes of HDV (god knows which hdv format will prevail... ) theyre not paying for me to direct their shoot, theyre not paying for me to bust my ass like my corp jobs do...
No, people get what they pay for and what they pay for is good quality and strong reliable service.

HD is not the be all and end all.. what good is HD if your sound is garbage? What good is HD if your shots look like a 7yr old with dads handycam? What good is HD if you only watch it on your computer in DivX or WMV and you cant send a copy to your family and friends overseas?
Seriously so many poeple worry too much about "hd this and HD that.. " but what are the true advantages of HD??
-Higher sampling rate for colour (i can tweak this in post NOW without needing a HD camera)
-higher resolution at the acquisition level (cool i can reframe shots in sd, or i can zoom in and still retail full res sd... )
-Exceptional SD delivery that compares well to full res progressive scan.
(just but im a picky bastard.. )
-Potential delivery to HD DVD but by the time that happens, your camera wil be obsolete and or superceeded by the next model (nuff said, but i can also scale my full res Progressive SD footage and still give me a nice smooth image without looking like home video...scaled SD to HD 720p to my eye looks much more filmic than 1080i, which is sharp but still feels like home video )

so in all, theres nothing i cant do now with an SD camera than what i could do with a HDV/HD camera.. oh apart from reframing... but thats about it.. if i were you, i wouldnt worry so much abotu HD.. id worry about content..

My belief about "wannabes" videographers is that marketing created a trend -videography - They just want to buy all these "cool" gear and have no idea how much tax it will come out of their profits.

Offcource, they are people that really like the field and are not victims of marketing or trends.

As technology and marketing will get stronger - many people will lose lots of money and time - in the years to come - many people will end up poor, and few will end up very very rich.

My belief about "wannabes" videographers is that marketing created a trend -videography - They just want to buy all these "cool" gear and have no idea how much tax it will come out of their profits.

Offcource, they are people that really like the field and are not victims of marketing or trends.

As technology and marketing will get stronger - many people will lose lots of money and time - in the years to come - many people will end up poor, and few will end up very very rich.


All of this is very normal in any industry. I do think that it might be a little unfair to call them all "wannabes" videographers. Many years ago Steven Spielberg was a "wannabes" movie maker. He turned out Ok, and I think he went around filming anything he could as a kid.

Like any other industry, they invest their money and try. If they make it fine, if they don't that's fine too! It's up to them, and there are as many different reasons for them trying, as there are people attempting.

One of these "wannabes" videographers, may just be the next Spielberg.

Mike

[QUOTE=I was just wondering if this seeming (to me) influx of posts of complete newbies is normal, or a sign of the last year or two. And if it's a new phenomenon, why?[/QUOTE]

So often I hear, "Oh it must be so much fun to do what you do." And of course, it is... because I love it, which is the only reason I can stick with it. I don't think they realize how much stress is involved until they've been thru it a few times. Also, they don't realize how low-man on the todem pole videog are and they aren't happy when they find out.

Also, I so often see and hear new couples, who just went thru their own weddings, thinking they can do it better.... only b/c they were too cheap to hire someone professional with high standards. It's only later that they find out it's not just a matter of point and shoot the shiny new camera.

Lastly, I don't think they realize how personally and how seriously couples take their wedding video and photos and they are surprised to find out the good enough doesn't always fly. They think it's frivilous and easy - a quick weekend job that pays well for a day's work. SURPRISE - it's not all in a day's work. If that's what they are looking for, become a DJ.

So lucky for us who are dedicated -this 'phenomonon' will only serve to make us stronger.

All of this is very normal in any industry. I do think that it might be a little unfair to call them all "wannabes" videographers. Many years ago Steven Spielberg was a "wannabes" movie maker. He turned out Ok, and I think he went around filming anything he could as a kid.

Like any other industry, they invest their money and try. If they make it fine, if they don't that's fine too! It's up to them, and there are as many different reasons for them trying, as there are people attempting.

One of these "wannabes" videographers, may just be the next Spielberg.

Mike

I all ready made the separation betwwen wanbnabes and serious.
Also, It is true that a Spielberg might come out,
But remember you are in the USA, for every Spielberg there are about 100.000 that will end up wroking in Shop rite.

I all ready made the separation betwwen wanbnabes and serious.
Also, It is true that a Spielberg might come out,
But remember you are in the USA, for every Spielberg there are about 100.000 that will end up wroking in Shop rite.

Shop rite needs people too, but it is not our job to discourage anyone, maybe a little honest advice and help now and then though.

As far as,... "Offcource, they are people that really like the field and are not victims of marketing or trends," as you stated.

I don't think, from what I've read here, that many if any go into the field just because they think taping wedding would be cool. I maybe wrong, but I think most try doing weddings in order to pay for a very expensive hobby they wish to become a career in video production or movies.

Just my thoughts, thanks for yours Anthony.

Good luck to all of them. There is a great axiom that they should heed, and that is, "The Harder They Work, The Luckier They Will Get!"

Mike

Shop rite needs people too, but it is not our job to discourage anyone, maybe a little honest advice and help now and then though.

As far as,... "Offcource, they are people that really like the field and are not victims of marketing or trends," as you stated.

I don't think, from what I've read here, that many if any go into the field just because they think taping wedding would be cool. I maybe wrong, but I think most try doing weddings in order to pay for a very expensive hobby they wish to become a career in video production or movies.

Just my thoughts, thanks for yours Anthony.

Good luck to all of them. There is a great axiom that they should heed, and that is, "The Harder They Work, The Luckier They Will Get!"

Mike

I believe that you are wrong (regarding marketing/cool=reason for wannabes). 10 years ago, when videography was Beta/SVS A/B roll, people (young guys) were not crazy about it. Why do yoiu think the # of videographers increases the last 5 years? If you think about it you will see the "trend" and the marketing behind it.

I can tell you how big is the market (especialy for new guys) because I advertize on the web (where new guys do too).
I can also tell you how much the guys at the and of list do, because i am first on the list.

These days you can shoot a wedding/ edit and deliver if you have 5K. You can also built a web-site for $10 a month. It is easy - that is why kids do it.
It also "exciting" that is why kids do it.

10 years ago - there were no $10 web-sites not 5k shooting/editing.

The point here (if I got you confused) is the original question "why so many videographers"? The answer is : because is easy, is cool (marketing helped a lot).

I don't have a probelm with wannabes (i was one too), instead it makes my business looks good because I am a professional. But the fact is : videography is cool!!!

Now if you are new your self, ask you self how many times you thought what your taxes will be before you buy your camcorder. If you didn't thought about taxes then you didn't start by having "business" in the brain. Instead you started it for one or both of these two reasons 1. you like it and 2. is cool.

And if you chose "cool' then you support my thoughts.

by the way; thats a nice debate!

Anthony,

It is a nice debate. You may be and probably are right, but...

The original idea or question was why so many are going into "wedding videos," and I still don't think that is why they are doing it. You are an experianced wedding videographer from what I read in your posts, but I would be scared to death to do one. I'd rather do a Big corporations video for half the money than someones wedding. I can redo the corp video. No guts!

I still think most would rather be doing corp video, commercials and inde films. The weddings are to pay the bills, for most. Of course that leaves it open to you, and that's good.

I also think that the reason there are more getting in, is the ease of the equipment and the low prices. I had different cameras years ago and just never used them. Non-digital, no easy editing system, about all us idiots could do was take a few pictures of the kids or drag races. Watch them a few times and let them collect dust on the shelf. It is so much different now. And, for the money, the equipment is about half the cost of stuff years ago. Dollar for dollar, what we have now is less expensive. You just buy more of it!

Anyway, thanks for the debate, and best of luck to you and your business, stay Cool.

Mike

"Lastly, I don't think they realize how personally and how seriously couples take their wedding video and photos and they are surprised to find out the good enough doesn't always fly. They think it's frivilous and easy - a quick weekend job that pays well for a day's work. SURPRISE - it's not all in a day's work. If that's what they are looking for, become a DJ."

Good call..
Again however, thlis al comes down to the marketting and educational side of things. Corporate clients understand how much work is involved, however wedding clients do not. They have a "consumer" mindset with misconceptions, however i INSIST on educating them before they even book me.
Also with regard to delivery, most photographers deliver in a matter of 2 to 6 weeks after the wedding. With video during peak season there is NO WAY a one man band can achieve this delivery schedule unless theyre hacking away and not really giving a shit. So this in itself puts people off a bit when theyre told they have to wait at least 12 weeks.. but hey, if you want a quality product thats tight, thats what you get.
Marketting has alot to blame for misconceived attitudes, as does the sell sell sell mentality of alot of bridal webites. Not many go through the intricacies of how much work is actually involved, and i think this is where the industry falls over.. alot of poeple jsut think its about adding music and a couple of titles.. they dont SEE or CONSIDER the art behind it. What I shoot is my paint, my NLE is my canvas, my soundtrack is my eisle which keeps my art grounded and stable, and most importantly my imagination is my brush....
All i can say is that if ur a newbie or not.. dont undersell yourself. Youve made a big investment in equipment and energy.. how much is it really worth to you?

less than 20% of couples consider video as oppsed to over 85% considering photos. Selll your wares as a photographer would and you might be surprised as to how thoguhts on video would evolve

Yiou have to remember it's not just new wedding videographers it's new film makers period. The cheaper prices, betetr quality equipment is allowing anyone with an idea, script etc. to act like a filmmaker.

The trick is how do true professionals who have spent time perfecting their craft stay ahead of the hacks.

I was taught that to last long in business you need to create and improve your Differential Advantage and target a successful niche.

What does my business do that my competitors can't do without spending a substantial amount of time and money or what target niches can I create where I'm the SME for that niche.

Another good thing about having so many newbies in the industry is that if you have successfully market yourself as an industry leader in your area, you'll probably being getting a lot more new business cleaning up newbie mistakes.


I've gotten calls over the years from videographers who sold more than they could handle and needed asst. That's how I landed my largest client, cleaning up a newbie shortsighted blunder

Anthony,

It is a nice debate. You may be and probably are right, but...

The original idea or question was why so many are going into "wedding videos," and I still don't think that is why they are doing it. You are an experianced wedding videographer from what I read in your posts, but I would be scared to death to do one. I'd rather do a Big corporations video for half the money than someones wedding. I can redo the corp video. No guts!

I still think most would rather be doing corp video, commercials and inde films. The weddings are to pay the bills, for most. Of course that leaves it open to you, and that's good.

I also think that the reason there are more getting in, is the ease of the equipment and the low prices. I had different cameras years ago and just never used them. Non-digital, no easy editing system, about all us idiots could do was take a few pictures of the kids or drag races. Watch them a few times and let them collect dust on the shelf. It is so much different now. And, for the money, the equipment is about half the cost of stuff years ago. Dollar for dollar, what we have now is less expensive. You just buy more of it!

Anyway, thanks for the debate, and best of luck to you and your business, stay Cool.

Mike

I am thanking you - stay cool too:)

Anthony

Bob, there is no reason to feel threatened. I agree with Chris- the more the merrier. All I worry about is that I'm producing the best work I possibly can. If you produce high quaility work, and conduct good customer service these "newbie" poping up serve you no harm what so ever.

In fact- one can look at it from the other perspective and see good in it. Rather than standing out in a crowd of two...maybe this influx of new videographers will further make you shine.

Regarding the point Joel brought up about not hiding your demo behind passwords- I feel a bit torn. On one side I understand and agree with his point. On the other I DO feel it's important that the correct audience is viewing your clips. A videographer friend of mine did some research into the traffic on his site. He found out that over 80% of the traffic downloading/viewing his clips were from wedding videography message boards. However on the same token I don't hold back handing out demos at weddings or sending one to a potential client. Heck, I seem to share a piece or two from almost every wedding I produce. God knows if there are demo's floating out there with someone elses bug on them. Ultimately it really doesn't matter I suppose.

Hi Glen!!

I don't feel threatened, I don;t even care. I am just amazed that the tail seems to wag the dog now. I would fully expect to see posts on the boards like:

I have an idea for a film, what do I do next?

I have been shooting for a year, and now someone wants me to do a wedding. Help!!

I just got laid off. How can I turn my hobby into a business?

But there seems to be an influx of:

I don't know anything about video, I don't even own a camera, but I want to do wedding videos. What do I need to buy?

It just seems completely backward, especially for something so technically challenging and diverse. I guess it is because there are just enough videographers out there now that people figure it is the next big thing (which it is). Maybe I am overreacting to their question, they ask it innocently, and they really want a complete answer instead of the usual "Buy a PD-170". But I guess people buy a farm instead of learning to milk cows first.

But there seems to be an influx of:

I don't know anything about video, I don't even own a camera, but I want to do wedding videos. What do I need to buy?

you gotta admit, this is the best place to ask.

but just because they don't own a 3-ccd camera doesn't mean they "don't even own a camera", or never logged any time using one. if you ask me, those people are doing the right thing, asking questions and doing research and making sure they are getting what is right for them before they spend their hard earned money.

and newbies? weren't we all? didn't we all have "stupid" questions to ask at one point? aren't you glad that there's this cool place where people interested in getting into dv filmmaking can get the right answers instead of asking the "gadget guru" at best buy?

i applaud people who dive into their passions. no experience? no problem! get some books. google yourself a film school education. go buy a camera. get out there and shoot to your heart's content. go make those mistakes, then go learn from them. and before this turns into a "these guys are undercutting our business and quality" thread, note that these guys don't have reels, so they will be learning with free friend-of-friend or cheap weddings to begin with. they don't affect my bottom line.

and newbies? weren't we all? didn't we all have "stupid" questions to ask at one point? aren't you glad that there's this cool place where people interested in getting into dv filmmaking can get the right answers instead of asking the "gadget guru" at best buy?



Very good point. It's funny you mention Best Buy because just 4 years ago when I bought my first DV camera (Sony TRV-17) there were a few guys at Best Buy that were attending college for video production. I would frequently visit and hit them with all sort of questions, "what's real-time, how do you output to VHS (this is before the onset of DVDs mind you)". They were my "DVinfo".

Partially due to my unbridled passion and another part due to my tendancy to be obsessive over my "hobbies" I soaked up as much info as I could. I ate, sleep, and ...(well, you know) Videography.

Ironcily enough I took some recent work into Best Buy recently (one of the two video guys still works there). He was floored at the work I was doing now. Funny that he's the very one that gave the the info to get me started, surrogated soon after by DVinfo. Passion and diligence can get you pretty far. Especially when you have forum communities like this one. I welcome all newbies to learn about this great craft. If it wasn't for people willing to share and teach I wouldn't be as far along as I am now in my continued learning experience in videography. I try to give as much BACK whenever possible.

I dont do weddings, sans the couple super high-dollar ones maybe once a year but I always say the more milk, the faster the cream rises to the top. No offense to anyone here but wedding guys can be very competetive and downright EVIL. My friend decided to offer weddings as a service in her video business and got HATEMAIL when she advertised a cheaper price than most...



ash =o)

One other thing that we might be missing here, is that because of all those entering the field, it brings the prices of equipment down for all, and raises the quality of the equipment.

Without all the new people entering, we would not have all of the neat toys we have now and will have soon. In order for the companies to advance their products and spend the money on research and development, they have to make sales. That neat new HD camera would cost $20,000 instead of $5,000, if it were made at all.

Welcome all.

Mike

Hey, I don't do weddings. The business is not attractive to me for a lot of reasons having nothing to do with this post. It just seems to me that there are an awful lot of newbies coming to the various forums saying "I am buying video equipment to be a wedding videographer. What should I get?". The normal way into this business IMHO would be home movies -> serious hobbyist -> do a wedding for a friend -> do a second one -> hang out your shingle. By the time most people do their first wedding, they would normally have 20-50 hours of shooting experience and some editing. I bet a lot of them today don't even own a one-chipper. I was just wondering if this seeming (to me) influx of posts of complete newbies is normal, or a sign of the last year or two. And if it's a new phenomenon, why?

I follow you now.. Yeah I would have to say in High School I never said to my self "I want to be a wedding videographer"..:) Actually due to my fulltime professional Director/Editor it was an easy fit.. Much less stressful doing weddings than doing the usual training videos and Documentaries.. IMHO..

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Socrates (470 - 399 BC)


That is a great quote, Mike. It was such a shock to get to the end and realize how long ago it was said...

That is a great quote, Mike. It was such a shock to get to the end and realize how long ago it was said...

I know Mike and he was probably there to write it down when it was first said.<G>

I know Mike and he was probably there to write it down when it was first said.<G>


OOOH, you are cruel! Not saying your wrong, just cruel.

Mike

That is a great quote, Mike. It was such a shock to get to the end and realize how long ago it was said...



Joe,

Isn't it great! Heard it nearly 30 years ago or so, while watching the Tonight Show of all things. Johnny was talking to someone about kids, and their behavior, and brought it up.

Just for Bruce’s information, the quote was not written down by Socrates, but was repeated by Plato and attributed to Socrates. I did know Plato.

Mike