Hi.
I am looking to buy a new, solid tripod to replace my Libec LS38. It will be used with a Sony EX3 and a JVC HM790. At full tele my images are too shaky at the moment, that is why I am looking to replace my current tripod. I have been looking at the Sachtler FSB8 as well as the Libec RS350.

I am doing all sorts of jobs, ranging from event work to filming rally and wildlife. Does anyone have any suggestions? They sure would be appreciated.

Thanks for reading.

Svein Rune

Well, Svein,

that's a big question, and no mistake.

BUT, first let's establish what we're talking about here.

The Sachtler FSB 8 is a pan/ tilt head, not a tripod.

The Libec RS 350 is a "system", both tripod and head packaged together.

Two completely different beasts.

I can't comment on the Libec as I haven't reviewed that model, and it may well have a better designed spreader than the RS - 250, which I found wanting in the spreader and stability department.

It's head has, from memory, continuously variable counterbalance and even an "off" setting on the drag controls (don't quote me on that, I know there's a diference between it and the 250, just can't remember what!) .

The Sachtler FSB 8 is one heck of a head, though it's stepped everything, which gives me the total ab - jabs (translation: you must be joking, right?), in case your'e wondering, I have the FSB 6 here on review as I type, and it's the same.

May I suggest a simple answer to your woes?

Mail Peter.Harman@VitecGroup.com and get a demo of whatever he suggests to park under that rig of yours.

It will have continuously variable everything, be as solid as it can be without being a set of FiberTecs (in joke!) and only cost the entire familly fortune, but hey, you're getting the best.


CS

PS: BTW, if ANY other manufacturer would like to be mentioned here, all you have to do is:

1. Let me know, which requires becoming a member here, just to keep my spam count down to the low thousands a day.

2. Offer a service. No service, no plug, end of story.

3. Have a system worth plugging. No system, no plug, end of story.

Hey, easy.

After all this time here, Vinten is still the only one to have jumped all the hoops and still out there, going for it.

The field is open, my friends "it's easy, you just have to apply", as Peter Sellers said so beautifully in the "Pink Panther", just be aware of the sting in the tail of how that comment was elicited.

Thanks for answering me Chris.

I just bought the Sachtler system FSB8MD. Hopefully it will work out for me.

Most expensive tripod I have ever bought anyway, so it should be better than my current Libec LS38.

Good luck with it, hope it works out.


CS

Actually it didn`t work out as well as I expected. The head was OK, but the sticks felt like they were going to break. They probably wouldn`t have, but with the JVC HM790 on top it just wasn`t as stable as I would have imagined. Maybe I had to high expectations or maybe it was just the wrong combination. This combination was good for my Sony Z5 though. Anyway, I returned it.

I wan`t a system that can last me a long time and after spending hard earned cash on an excellent camera I don`t want to buy the wrong tripod system. Now I know Sactler is making some of the finest systems in the world, I guess I just picked the wrong one for my camera.

So, my search continues and I have convinced myself to take it one step further. I have looked at bigger Sachtler systems but they are quite expensive. I have since looked long and hard at Miller and their Compass 25 Solo ENG 3-stage Carbon Fiber System (1857). Also been looking at Vinten. I would prefer to find a system with 100 mm bowl leveling with out breaking the bank. The Miller seems to fit the bill at little less than 4000 USD. Any suggestions?

Svein, you mention you are using the Sony Z5 and the JVC HM790...do you have alot of accessories on your camcorder's? Is the 790 in a stduio cofig? The Sachtler FSB8 is rated up to 20lbs....your Z5 is only about 5lbs, and the HM790 in ENG app with battery and let's say a monitor or wireless audio may get up to 13 - 15 lbs.....isn't the FSB8 a little overkill? I have used the RS350 with a JVC GYHM700U and it worked great. The RH35 is an awesome head for the price. However, it would be overkill for a Z5U. Concerning the sticks, you may be interested in purchasing the head and sticks separate. Have you looked at the Sachtler Soom tripod? On your last post, you mention you would prefer a 100mm bowl, however they are generally for heavy config's (20 lbs ad up) which, even the 790 with full studio CCU config only gets up to about 24 lbs....what is your application?

Scott. Thanks for your reply.

My HM790 is currently loaded with a Swit V- lock battery, a Rode NTG3 microphone with softie and an IDX light. I am also looking to attach a Sennheiser 500 wireless receiver but haven`t found the right solution yet. I do have a box for it from the BEC group but I haven`t found a bracket to mount it.

I am planning, if economy permits, to upgrade my existing setup on the HM790 with a studio setup as I do a lot of live events as well. Possibly selling my EX3 and buy a second HM 790.

I own the PL- adapter made by JVC for the Pro HD series and looking to buy the Fujinon 18x lens for it, as well as a good stills lens for wildlife. That is what I am dreaming about anyway.

I have been looking real hard at the Libec RS350 and that was my initial choice but my local supplier didn`t feel the quality was just as good as a Sactler system, and that is why I purchased it.

My Z5 is loaded with a NPF 970 battery, looking to buy a led light, wide angled adapter and flash recorder for it.

I want something sturdy. Yesterday I was filming a national Rally run and the company I was working with supplied me with a Sony DSR570 and a Sachtler System called Video 15 and speed lock legs. What a tripod to work with. Vow!

I don`t know if I need a 100 mm system but I have been told that the images would be more stable with it. Isn`t his correct?

At the same time I am looking for a system that isn`t too heavy to lug around.

I am surprised you find the Sachtler unsuitable as I have 'Caddy' on C/F sticks that must be 20 years old and is still going strong. It has been serviced 2 or 3 times but goes on forever. I also have a Video 18 of the same age and that has given equally as good a service. If you buy a really good Vinten or Sachtler it will save you money in the long run.

Bruce, I was surprised as well. As I said, the head was ok, but the sticks were not. A colleague of mine said the same thing and he has been in the business more than 20 years. Please don´t get me wrong. I know Sachtler makes good tripods, I just think I picked the wrong combination for my camera.

I was excited when I unpacked the system but I soon felt uneasy when I saw the sticks. The price was 2000 USD here in Norway and I felt I didn`t get what I wanted.

Maybe I bought into the wrong price category and should have gone higher in the first place. But is is my money and I have worked really hard to earn them. I just want to spend them the right way, if that makes sense.

Hi, Svein (again)...........

Just to save what must be a seriously depleted pile of dollars from shrinking any further, why not try this:

Send a mail to: Peter.Harman@VitecGroup.com stating what you're after and trying to achieve, and let him organise a test drive of something he feels appropriate.

I know this will, as usual, look like I'm pushing Vinten but, AFAIK, they are the only ones who will organise test drives, free, gratis and no cost.

Rather than buy another three dissapointing sets and coming unstuck every time.

Do be patient, as Peter is at NAB (well, he told me he was going, anyway), tho' he will be "phoning home" on a regular basis.

Gotta be worth a try.


CS

Thanks Chris. I sent him an e- mail so let`s see what happens.

Hi there.

I have an EX1, EX3 and a Sachtler FSB 6 with the same tripod as you got with your FSB 8. I also have a FSB 8T with Carbon Fiber 'Speed Lock 75' legs and find this entire setup much much more stable than the FSB 6 system. Sachtler 0750 FSB-8T Tripod System with Speed Lock 75 0750 B&H

To be honest, you won't find completely stable telephoto shooting without spending thousands and thousands of dollars. However, I find my FSB 8 system much more stable with my EX3 which is loaded with a Zacuto Newsman shoulder rig, Seinn G3 receiver, Swit 88whr v-mount battery and NTG 3.

Do you use a zoom controller? I use the Varizoom Pro-EX and find it a necessity for decent telephoto work.

Another issue with these smaller cameras is their baseplate. At least with an EX3, a stronger baseplate from Westsideav.com can help create a more solid connection between the camera and tripod/head.

Whoa, I gotta take exception to this:

To be honest, you won't find completely stable telephoto shooting without spending thousands and thousands of dollars.

Given, of course, that "completely stable" is something of a moveable feast.

The 75 CF SpeedLock tripod you mention came "last past the post" against a Libec RT - 30B (by a nose), a Manfrotto 546B (by a length) and a Vinten PosiLoc (by a furlong) in the rigidity tests I performed for my multi system reviews.

None of the three front runners bar the Vinten cost more than a grand for the entire system, sticks, head, spreader and case, and the Vinten is only a couple of hundred bucks more.

I wasn't suprised by the Sachtlers performance in the slightest, being a 2:1:1 configuration it was always going to be outgunned by any but the lousiest of 2:2:1 sticks.

The original Sachtler sticks Svein tried were the aluminium 2:1 configuration (not 2:1:1) which, if anything, would be better than the 75 CF SpeedLocks, due to having one less leg joint (a visible point of weakness with the SpeedLocks).

So, if he couldn't hack the first set, a set of 75 CF's ain't gonna do it either.

Don't get me wrong, the SpeedLocks are great at what they do great - fold short, light, fast, just don't add rigid, IMHO.


CS

I have both Sachtler legs and the CF legs are much better.

I don't understand your sayings but that Manfrotto is one of the worst set of legs I have ever used.

I have both Sachtler legs and the CF legs are much better.

Well, if you think so, fine, I'm simply telling you what the tests said, and the bottom line is "they ain't that flash" in the rigidity department (when compared to the others on test).

Your definition of rigid and mine obviously have diverged somewhat.

I don't understand your sayings but that Manfrotto is one of the worst set of legs I have ever used.

I'm not sure if you're referring to the specific Manfrotto 546B set of sticks I was talking about or not.

If you were talking about the 546B, I didn't say the tripod system was great, I said the sticks were.

Big difference. The sticks were very good, the spreader and it's arrangement left a great deal to be desired.

Nevertheless, it trounced the Sachtler in no uncertain manner in the rigidity stakes, which is what we were talking about.

As for other Manfrotto tripod offerings, I cannot comment as I haven't tested them, the 546B's were exceptionally stable and the second best set of twin tube 2:2:1 sticks I've used after the Vinten, ever, though, interestingly enough, the Libecs would have been right up there but for their terrible spreader configuration (great workings, wrong size).

No mean feat for Manfrotto.

Do bear in mind I'm not talking about heads here, just tripods, not the same thing. Don't get me started about Manfrotto heads.


CS

In terms of tripod heads, Sachtler and Vinten are a completely different league than Manfrotto/Libec.

I have the FSB8 predecessor, DV6SB. Brilliant head, even holds my HPX500 for those run and gun situations where i don`t fancy carrying around more weight. But the legs, I`ve got the alu ones, don`t match the head quality.

To this day, for a one man band, the Vinten Vision100 and a set of Sachtler 100mm HD legs(can`t remember if they where speedlocks or not) are the most stable solution I`ve used. And yes, did carry a HPX500, mattebox, 3 batteries, food/drink and autumn clothing...and a vision100/sachtler hd kit around the old Olympic slopes in Hafjell(Lillehammer olympics). Ofcourse this is a kit for larger ENG size cameras. That said after using a loaded EX1, 100mm sticks gives you that extra rigidity...

As for smaller cameras with some extras the FSB6/8 should be a good head. I can`t comment on the new AS or blu range from vinten, and I do tend to lean towards Sachtler...

So you could always go more stable, but at a certain point it becomes to heavy to carry around...and very expensive.

I have been looking at Vinten as well. In fact I have been searching what feels like the entire internet for information for a while now, probably making me more confused than ever.

I think I have decided to go with either the RS450 from Libec, as it comes higly recommended by Nigel Cooper from Dvuser or a Vinten. The RS450 should fit my JVC and seems a good match for other cameras on the market, giving me better options when working as a freelancer.

However Vinten`s homepage suggests the Vision AS5 series for the JVC. But then again that is double the price of the Libec. At least here in Norway. I have also been recommended the Vision 6, but I don`t know if they make that model anymore.

Hi, Svein............

Erm, hmm, Mr Cooper, yeah, I say nothing,(Content removed as possibly libelous)

I DO NOT GET PAID in any way, shape or form, owe nothing to any manufacturer and am not reliant on an income from them to keep contributing here on DVinfo, and have no axe to grind, one way or the other, if I have a bias, it's because the gear is simply better, end of story (IMHO).

You seem to be a tad impetuous with this, which is a terrible mistake to make, calm down and listen, test and decide in your own time.

Give Vinten some time to come up with a test rig, heck, Peter has gone "off piste" somewhere 'cos even I can't raise him since I posted the "contact him" post.

There is a very good reason why the Vinten offering at the level you're looking at is twice the price of the Libec, it's better than twice the quality, which shows in the end product.

Just give Vinten a chance to show you what they can do.

What else can I say?

If you buy yet another rig "on the fly" and it turns out to be junk, don't blame anybody but you, you're the idiot with the credit card.

Just park it and wait.

We'll get there.


CS

Seems to me that part of the problem is simple physics.
I shoot stage events at the long end of the lens and have used Miller's Compass and Arrow tripods and heads.
Once significant source of problems isn't the sticks but what they're sitting on. Even if the legs are absolutely rigid they can be sitting on soft carpet so the whole thing will move relative to the planet.
Sure adding more mass to the system via more expensive heavy legs with a 100mm or 150mm bowl will help but you've got to pay serious money for this and you're stuck lugging that weight around no matter what you're shooting.
A simple, cheaper fix is a 15Kg shot bag tied to the bottom of the head.

Chris, thanks for calming me down. I am just anxious to get going. That`s all. I have a project coming up soon and would like to get a good start not worrying about whether my equipment will hold up to the task. I did send Mr. Harman an e- mail as I said, so hopefully he will get back to me.

Bob, I guess you are right about stability. I have been thinking about putting some extra weight on the tripod, but then again I am on my own and already carry a lot of equipment. Less is better. For me anyway.

I opened my e- mail today and there was a message from Mr Peter Harman. He suggested the Vinten Vision 5AS single stage Aluminium tripod system with floor spreader (V5AS-AP1F).

Have either of you used this system? It looks great from what I can tell. I would prefer to have a mid- spreader though, considering I move around alot in different terrain.

He even wrote I could loan one and try. How great is that? I will reply tomorrow as easter is over then. Wonder if they ship to Norway?

Hi, Svein.............

I gather Peter has been having a "real" holiday (finally!) and had thus disapeared from everyone's radar for a while, I'm glad he eventually responded.

Can't see a ground level spreader being of much use to you (or anyone else, for that matter) except as a "just in case" addition to your armoury.

The problem is, you have a choice with the mid level spreaders, which is why, I think, Peter is trying to avoid the issue, tho' he's probably going to tear a strip off me for saying so.

There are now two Vinten mid level spreaders, the original Spread - Loc, which weighs a ton and costs a Kings ransom, or the new (not really, a modified Pro - Touch unit) that is infinitely lighter and cheaper.

The lighter, cheaper unit does the job exceedingly well but just doesn't look, well, Vinten, to be frank. That notwithstanding, it works, it's cheap (er) and what more do you want?

Haven't tried the V5 AS, got the V3 AS, V3 and VB (yeah, why would one videographer have all these heads? Stuffed if I know, bloody nice toys though!)

If the V5 AS is as good or better than the V3 AS (doubt it's any different, same body, just a different spring [go on Peter, prove me wrong]) it's going to be quite a revelation.

Just about all the loaner systems I've read about going out have had GLS, probably because of cost/ weight, I guess.

Give it a try and see what you think.

As I've said before, Vinten customer service, just can't beat it.

Keep us posted.


CS

After corresponding with Mr Harman at Vinten I have come to look at the following system. It is called V5AS-CP1M and should include the following: Vinten Vision 5 AS head, 1 stage carbon tripod and mid level spreader.

My reason for opting for the 1 stage carbon tripod is a matter of two things. First off it is lighter and second there are less clamps in the system and thus the leg construction should be more rigid, the 1st tripod should be more torsionally stable than the 2st tripod according to mr Harman.