When I got my F3, I quickly rummaged through my gear to find something that works and can get me shooting handheld without buying any new rigs. Eventually, I'll need to get a rig that is optimized for the F3 but for now I've got something I can shoot with. Thought you might enjoy a few pics of how the rig came together.

Dropbox - Photos - Online backup, file sync, and sharing made easy. (http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/5506543/1/2011-03-08%20Sony%20PMW-F3%20Pictures?h=b1dafe)

Interesting thing with the 4-pin XLR at that angle. I felt lucky on my rig that it fit between the rails without having to change the plug to another angle.

Interesting thing with the 4-pin XLR at that angle. I felt lucky on my rig that it fit between the rails without having to change the plug to another angle.

On the Neutrik XLR right angle connectors, you can loosen the securing collar and spin it to whatever angle works for you. That's the way it came from Anton Bauer and the angle works well for me so I left it. It tucks the cable in just perfect.

Aaron- using handheld rig, how do you find your eye placement and focus to the flip out LCD?

My question exactly - I have my F3 slid forward so I can still use the flip-out LCD handheld. But that's so far in front of me that with a heavy zoom, it's almost impossible to counterbalance. Almost killed myself doing crowd shots for an hour the other night - definitely need a better solution.

What are people doing for F3 shoulder rigs/forward mounted monitoring? We've seen a lot of photos of rigs built for sticks, but not so many of thoughtful handheld rigs.

I agree, the LCD is a tad close for my taste. Depending on how long the shoot is, I can always snap my Marshall monitor on the rail between the left hand grip and the body. That's about the perfect distance for me. Even with the rig as it sits, it'll do in a pinch and it's pretty balanced right now. Any further forward and I'll be killing myself. The rig is already ridiculously heavy, 25lbs on the scale as you see it in the pics.

Zacuto has a Z-finder EVF, for release soon. Hopefully they will have a working product @ NAB on a F3. They show off a EVF - F3 setup on their site. Need to see how effective this EVF is. It may be what your chiropractor orders.

One stop at NAB not to miss.

Aaron- that is alot of weight, can you offload the battery and the Cine recorder to a backpack unless it offsets the lens, CG?

Yeah Steve, without the deck and batteries the rig kills my arms after just a bit

The rig is already ridiculously heavy, 25lbs on the scale as you see it in the pics.

My goodness. How heavy is the Cinedeck without the batts?

I think the Cinedeck is about 4 pounds if I recall correctly.

Interesting. The rail support is from Redrocmikro wright?

Has anybody seen or put together a rig that is longer than this one? So you could support a lens on it and a matte box.

I haven't had a chance to play with the F3 yet but my solution to handheld has never been shoulder rigs but to mount on a monopod with a tilt head that sits in a fanny pack on my waist. This could possibly also be used with a shoulder rig. Nice thing is it gets the weight in front of you and makes it easy to use a hoodman on the EX-1 as you have a lot of freedom as to where the camera sits. I'm hoping this will work on the F3 also though the more accessories you add, the more cumbersome this stuff becomes. I'm glad I started going to the gym recently.

Ahem guys--welcome to the big leagues. Large sensor PL cameras mean heavy lenses. Instead of re-inventing the wheel, consider the solutions that have been in place for years to manage larger rigs.

The Redrock shoulderpad is to me not a sensible design--it places the rig forward completely arbitrarily. You should be able to sit the rig on your shoulder as close to the fulcrum point as possible. Wrestling a front-heavy rig is just a waste of energy. Putting a loupe on the flip-out finder is a pretty good solution, certainly better than the fixed screen on the DSLR's, but it still forces you into a having an arbitrary amount of the weight fore of your shoulder. For the past few years I've been using monitors placed as far forward as possible, and with the DSLR's I made up a homemade viewfinder using a Hoodman loupe with extension coroplast sides that velcro to the faceplate of the monitor (currently the DP6). For the shoulder pad, I have used a strap on pad on my shoulder that allows me to place the camera wherever I choose (again, not dictated by where a pad "finds itself" amongst the other elements on the rods). A more tidy solution is a loose pad that velcros under the camera at the appropriate spot. If that sounds makeshift, believe it or not that's how some of the higher end film cameras (Panavision for one) have done it in the past.

Regarding the mattebox--once you start to build up the rest of the masses to this sort of weight point, a clip-on lightweight mattebox becomes a much better solution than a rod-mounted swingaway. With 35mm cameras and their HD equivalents it is standard to have a studio mattebox and a clip-on for handheld and Steadicam.

Wrestling a front-heavy rig is just a waste of energy.

And it compromises the shot. You can do it for a shot here and there, but if you need to do it all day, you will hurt and the shots will stink. Putting weight (bigger batts, god forbid, 'ballast weights') on the back to balance rarely does, and just adds more weight to tire you out.


For the past few years I've been using monitors placed as far forward as possible

That's sage advice. I'll add a little I learned from shooting 2.5 years with the Red:

It didn't take long to learn after I bought the Red that the only way to do handheld was to mount the 5" LCD right next to the mattebox. The camera would balance on my shoulder and the LCD filled maybe 60-70% of my field of view, allowing some peripheral vision to navigate while doing handheld tracking shots.

After I got the Red EVF, I realized that it had to be so far forward that it blocked access to the lens for the assistant (and me, too). And it added a noticeable amount of weight to an already heavy rig. I used it once for handheld, once was enough.

Also, if you get a Cineroid or Zacuto EVF, resist the urge to mount it with a noga arm. When you go handheld with it, the mass of the camera pressing the EVF against your eye will loosen the EVF after a few takes, and then the arm will either loosen from it's 1/4" moorings, or the balls will give way, leaving your EVF in a place your eye can't get to it. Redrock, Zacuto and Cineroid love to show those finders on a noga arm because it looks so clever, but the reality is that when the mass of your body and a 20lb camera is involved, they'll never stay put. Figure out something else...

[edit: attached a pic of what I'm talking about on the Red. Looks weird, but the day that pic was taken, I had done 6 hours handheld with that cam]

Instead of re-inventing the wheel, consider the solutions that have been in place for years to manage larger rigs.

Yes, keep in mind guys who operate 35 have been dealing with this stuff for years. The 'rigs' I see on retailers and manufacturers web pages often go from questionable to ridiculous in actual usability, based on my experience. Please remember those guys are there to sell you little aluminum doo-dads, not solve your problem in the cheapest/most efficient way possible. I'd recommend googling pictures of 35 handheld rigs, because chances are those are the guys that have to do it for 12 hour days and you can reverse engineer from the pics what works.

One more thing, a tip to the best handgrips made, hands down at any price:

Little company called Camera Accessory Solutions, in the San Fernando valley makes these adjustable grip thingys called Spidergrips. They are super strong, mega adjustable, and pack down very small in your kit.

I have managed to make these work perfectly on every Red/DSLR/video camera I've used since I bought them 2 years ago. At the time they were $650. Now they've been raised to $850, because all his competitors were at that price too.

For a long time they've been this word-of-mouth thing in Los Angeles, maybe I can change that. The guy who makes them deserves it, that's for sure.

For what its worth to others , I tried the F3 on my little monopod rig this afternoon and it worked great. No problem with the placement of the flip out with a hoodman added to it and it was much much lighter with a Zeiss ZF than the with a Sony 35mm which was very front heavy. Of course I didn't use a mattebox and a followfocus with rails would add to the weight - So maybe it would be rougher with all that.

One nice thing about handheld with the sony lens or a cooke though would be the footage readout in the viewfinder. Too bad it won't work with Nikon readouts on the ZF.2s but I doubt Sony will offer that.

Hi Leonard,

Do you find the Hoodman to work well with the F3 LCD? Also, could you attach a pic so we can see how it looks/fits?

Thanks.

Thierry.

Truth is I forgot to bring my hoodman with me and the camera is gone from my dealer tomorrow. But it seemed like it would work perfectly for me. If I can get a look I'll try it tomorrow, but it looked the same to me as the EX-1 screen and that works great with a hoodman. I had no problem with its position, but I wasn't using one of those shoulder braces. Rear Eyepiece didn't look as good as I hoped though.

Check with Alister & the other guys as to whether its the same as the EX.

I've been using the Hoodman on my F3 for critical focusing and it has worked pretty well, although I wouldn't recommend it for full time use. Personally, I don't trust the hinge on the LCD door and I have already heard one story of a door snapping off. So, I use it for critical focus making sure to not apply a lot of pressure on it and use an external monitor for everything else

I don't trust the hinge on the LCD door and I have already heard one story of a door snapping off.

When I first put my hands on an F3, the one negative that I came away with was how fragile the LCD hinge was. I knew at that point, an external monitor or some yet to be invented EVF was going to be required for the long term. I don't view it as a viewfinder but rather a menu screen. I'm serious. It is way to delicate in it's construction.

Hi,

On your pictures, you plugged the HD-SDI B plug to the cinedeck... Can you tell why ?
What format are you recording ?

Regards,

Yes, keep in mind guys who operate 35 have been dealing with this stuff for years. The 'rigs' I see on retailers and manufacturers web pages often go from questionable to ridiculous in actual usability, based on my experience. Please remember those guys are there to sell you little aluminum doo-dads, not solve your problem in the cheapest/most efficient way possible. I'd recommend googling pictures of 35 handheld rigs, because chances are those are the guys that have to do it for 12 hour days and you can reverse engineer from the pics what works.

Well said! Couldn't agree more!

Hi,

On your pictures, you plugged the HD-SDI B plug to the cinedeck... Can you tell why ?
What format are you recording ?

Regards,

When I record all normal formats, only the SDI A is used on the Cinedeck. That's what you see in the pictures. When I record dual link, both A and B are used on the camera and the Cinedeck. When not recording dual link, I just leave the B cable there and plugged in. When recording single link, the B input is ignored on the Cinedeck. Just less plugging to do when going from single to dual link, so the B is always plugged in even if it's ignored.

And here's a picture of my rig using Genus parts.

When I record all normal formats, only the SDI A is used on the Cinedeck. That's what you see in the pictures. When I record dual link, both A and B are used on the camera and the Cinedeck. When not recording dual link, I just leave the B cable there and plugged in. When recording single link, the B input is ignored on the Cinedeck. Just less plugging to do when going from single to dual link, so the B is always plugged in even if it's ignored.

Hi,

Maybe you can confirm something for me, something I wasn't able to find in the manual pages :
Can you record 10 bits HD-SDI 4:2:2 with a single link cable plugged on the A plug ?
In this case, what is the need to record dual link ?

BTW, your rig is really compact and clean. Is the Genus Mattebox working with all of the lenses you are using ?

Regards,
Seb

And here are pics of my F3 with Vocas rig and mate box, Sony PL lens, Marshall 5" HDMI monitor and Cavision follow focus.

Thierry.

Thanks Nate, Alister and Thierry for posting photos of your rigs. Really helpful. A couple of things jump out that are interesting. I noticed right away Thierry's RAM mount holding his monitor. I have a couple of those on my sportbike. Those things are ROCK solid once you cinch them down and they are somewhat cheaper than most NAGA style arms.

I can see some redeeming qualities in all 3 of the handgrip mechanisms. I would be hard pressed to make an immediate choice until I weighed through the different kinds of shooting I would be doing over the course of the year. Some of the qualities that stand out for me are...

On Nate's, the ability to extend the grips out forward and the ratchet mechanisms are good for quick and decisive placement, although the others appear relatively good in this regard.

On Alister's, the ability to move the handle mechanism from side to side, particularly to the left so your arms are more in line with the shooter. Also, if you were to have a zoom lens on your rig with motors (you might go there in a year or so), you could have a zoom rocker easily fitted on Alister's & Thierry's handles but really one could make it work on Nate's. Where there is a will there is a way.

On Thierry's, the arms are by far the most ergonomically placed. Don't believe me. Thrust your your arms with your hands slightly curled but in a relaxed position. See how your hands are canted? The only problem with Theirry's is length and I have this problem with mine, the Zacuto Z-grips (which I wouldn't recommends in light of these ones). WIth longer ones, you are at an advantage when the rig is on your shoulder but when you go to put it down between takes, unless you have a box or a table to put it on with the end hanging over the end, you have the rig resting on the handles and the heel of the rig. The torque on certain parts of the rig is going to make you wince.

Shoulder pads. It is hard to see what some of you have going on. I have the Zacuto pad with the Z-riser. It's passable but absurdly expensive for what it is. I still laugh 2 years later when I look at the Zacuto shoulder pad knowing what I paid for it. I picked up a GENUS shoulder pad on seeing Andy Shipsides demo it with an AF-100 rig but didn't know the pad would come without the rails attachment piece. The Genus shoulder pad is simple but amazing. I am sure Alister will attest to it. Not sure though if the Genus rig has the ability to get the pad under the camera, if need be.

Hi,

Maybe you can confirm something for me, something I wasn't able to find in the manual pages :
Can you record 10 bits HD-SDI 4:2:2 with a single link cable plugged on the A plug ?
In this case, what is the need to record dual link ?

BTW, your rig is really compact and clean. Is the Genus Mattebox working with all of the lenses you are using ?

Regards,
Seb

There is no signal on the A plug for 4:2:2 recording in single link mode. I do believe that requires the firmware upgrade. I see some more options for the SDI outputs in the menus but they are greyed out. This makes me think the firmware will enable them.

The reason I use dual link is because it's the only way to get 1080p/60 from the camera.

There is no signal on the A plug for 4:2:2 recording in single link mode. I do believe that requires the firmware upgrade. I see some more options for the SDI outputs in the menus but they are greyed out. This makes me think the firmware will enable them.

The reason I use dual link is because it's the only way to get 1080p/60 from the camera.

But for this you need something that can record dual link, like the $10k Cinedeck (so, the nanoflash is not an option, what about the AJA Ki-Pro ?)

Many thanks for the answer.
Regards,

snip.....On Thierry's, the arms are by far the most ergonomically placed. Don't believe me. Thrust your your arms with your hands slightly curled but in a relaxed position. See how your hands are canted? The only problem with Theirry's is length and I have this problem with mine, the Zacuto Z-grips (which I wouldn't recommends in light of these ones). WIth longer ones, you are at an advantage when the rig is on your shoulder but when you go to put it down between takes, unless you have a box or a table to put it on with the end hanging over the end, you have the rig resting on the handles and the heel of the rig. The torque on certain parts of the rig is going to make you wince.

Shoulder pads. It is hard to see what some of you have going on. I have the Zacuto pad with the Z-riser. It's passable but absurdly expensive for what it is. I still laugh 2 years later when I look at the Zacuto shoulder pad knowing what I paid for it. I picked up a GENUS shoulder pad on seeing Andy Shipsides demo it with an AF-100 rig but didn't know the pad would come without the rails attachment piece. The Genus shoulder pad is simple but amazing. I am sure Alister will attest to it. Not sure though if the Genus rig has the ability to get the pad under the camera, if need be.

The Vocas handles can move vertically into their brace so if you slide them all the way up, they become quite short, I'd say about 17cm (7"). I agree with the shoulder pad positioning, eventually, once a good EVF comes to market (neither Zacuto's or Cineroid's have thrilled me yet....), for proper balancing, the shoulder pad should sit under the camera's body or very close. Here is a low cost and versatile shoulder pad, made in India... that will fit any standard 15mm rails. I just received mine today and for 39 bucks, no complain.

(Sh.P) 15mm Shoulder Pad for 15mm DSL RIG shoulder mount rail system (http://www.thecinecity.com/eshop/product.php?productid=297&cat=291&page=1)

Thierry.

Hilarious, that shoulder pad from India is a knock off of the Zacuto one.

Here's the Zacuto one for $250:

Shoulder Mounting Equipment - Zacuto (http://store.zacuto.com/zacuto-shoulder-mounting-equipment/)

and here's the Q-Release for $175 that allows you to place the pad under the camera:

Q-Release - Zacuto (http://store.zacuto.com/q-release.html)

Yeah but you get two 7" rails with the Zacuto DeLuxe pad, that has got to worth a lot of money...

Q-Release is smart but along wiht the pad, it seems to raise the camera quite a bit over the shoulder. Not sure I understand how the quick release works, I only see one tightening knob on each side of the Q-Release.

I am eagerly waiting for Redrockmicro's MicroEVF, the most promising EVF I see coming to market but will they ever deliver it? That is the question. Looks great on paper though.

Thierry.

The Vocas handles can move vertically into their brace so if you slide them all the way up, they become quite short, I'd say about 17cm (7"). I agree with the shoulder pad positioning, eventually, once a good EVF comes to market (neither Zacuto's or Cineroid's have thrilled me yet....), for proper balancing, the shoulder pad should sit under the camera's body or very close. Here is a low cost and versatile shoulder pad, made in India... that will fit any standard 15mm rails. I just received mine today and for 39 bucks, no complain.

(Sh.P) 15mm Shoulder Pad for 15mm DSL RIG shoulder mount rail system (http://www.thecinecity.com/eshop/product.php?productid=297&cat=291&page=1)

Thierry.



does it just slide tightly into the rails or does it have any way to tighten it?

The pad fits snuggly onto the rails and holds by itself well.

Thierry.

Q-Release is smart but along wiht the pad, it seems to raise the camera quite a bit over the shoulder. Not sure I understand how the quick release works, I only see one tightening knob on each side of the Q-Release.

The silver paddles on the Q-Relase under the knobs tighten against the rods. It does form a secure grip that will hold a 25 pound package. On the other side of the Q-Release block are 15mm threaded holes for the 7" threaded Zacuto rods. So if someone were to get the Cine CIty Pad from India and the Q-Release, one would also have to get the Zacuto 7" rods found here:

7-inch rod extensions - Zacuto (http://store.zacuto.com/7-inch-rod-extensions.html)

The Genus shoulder pad will slide under the rear of the camera. They have a new wider pad that would be more appropriate for the F3 than the DSLR one I have used on my rig. Under the bottom of the whole lot I have a Genus GAP plate which allows me to use a Sony VCT-14 quick release plate.

Nice Rig Aaron,
How are you using that Redrock Follow focus? which size Gear or is it another brand.
i actually think weight is good, it's all about distribution.
my only worry about the Zacuto EVF is that the HDMI does not work when you shoot 24 fps if you are using the HD-SDI
i guess you can loop trough the cinedeck..

Nice Rig Aaron,
How are you using that Redrock Follow focus? which size Gear or is it another brand.
i actually think weight is good, it's all about distribution.
my only worry about the Zacuto EVF is that the HDMI does not work when you shoot 24 fps if you are using the HD-SDI
i guess you can loop trough the cinedeck..

There's two gears I got with my redrock follow focus. The eng gear works with my Fujinon and Canon ENG lens. The cine gear works with Zeiss and my Sony kit lenses just fine. Haven't tried any other lenses.

Attached a picture of the rig I built for a student who needed hand held and the Ki Pro Mini, using available parts from our Red Rock DSLR rigs.

The weight is pretty even with the CP.2 on the front, and the shoulder pad moves forward when you take it off of the tripod. The position of the Ki Pro is different than in this picture, but in reality it just showed us that having a better mount makes more sense. Really, just ignore the Ki Pro + Cheese on the back there, it's certainly not how I would have done it if I had the ability to purchase some of the solutions.

I struggled with the shoulder rig as well. with 'medium budget' and continues altering I came up with this vocas rig. Tried to keep it as light as possible and efficient on batteries. This rig runs 3 hours on the cams BU060 and a IDX Endura 7s and charging takes less time then draining.
I use a Marshall 7" monitor and the cineroid (notice the rubber band around it). Due to its weight I prefer the cineroid. Hence, most of the time I use the peaking function and as you see I use the IDX camwave wireless for the director. He gets a clear, uncompressed picture on another 7" Marshall in a comfortable handheld receiver set.
In sunlight nore the marshall or the cineroid works ok. I'm forced to use the viewfinders eyepiece but then you have the problem to keep it in places and (as this is a unique photo me not sweating) you get condens on your glass. Luckely with the peaking at the max, most of the time I come home with the right thing in focus...
I changed the shoulderpad filling from it's original rubberpad to soft foam because the rubber kills skin over bone on your shoulder and you get less sweating. The battery plate on the back with the transmitter and nanoflash as counterweight makes the cam less frontheavy. The grips are close to the body to conveniance in longer runs. grips far from the body is a killer. I have the left handle horizontal to run the starknob at the followfocus. There is just enough room to move the mattebox forward and change the lens. These Zeiss compact primes are great. With bigger lensesn it takes you more time to changes, cause you have to remove the VFarm. It has to be there otherwise it is in the way for iris and focus.

Here's the ET rig:

Element Technica F3 Riser & Shoulder Pad Kit | CineTechnica (http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/06/29/element-technica-f3-riser-shoulder-pad-kit/)

did a job with red zooms and the ET Mantis, great handheld device!
got pretty heavy towards the end of the day, 2- 5.6 tvlogic monitors, bartech wireless focus, Oconnor Obox,swit96 battery and red plate with anton bauer battery.

Here's the ET rig:

Element Technica F3 Riser & Shoulder Pad Kit | CineTechnica (http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/06/29/element-technica-f3-riser-shoulder-pad-kit/)

There is un update by Mitch Gross from Abel CineTech.

F3 Solutions: ET F3 Riser Mounting Options | CineTechnica (http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/07/19/f3-solutions-et-f3-riser-mounting-options/)

As a test, I mounted the F3 (along with a Zacuto mini-baseplate) on the EXMount which I love for my EX3.
These are just quick demos, and it does elevate the camera a bit higher than one might like, but without the baseplate, the camera seats perfectly onto the mount (which snaps directly into a VCT-14 plate on the bottom) and gives a tidy handheld rig, minus any bells and whistles like a mattebox and follow focus. In this configuration, if you needed an external recorder, monitor etc- one could use the Berkey top plate...

I couldn't agree more on current EVFs mounting hardware. One 1/4"-20 hole to attach a fairly bulky and exposed viewfinder is not enough. Zacuto's Zamerican arms are sturdy but too complexe and heavy. Someone needs to come out with a slimmer EVF design, with an eye piece that can be tilted up and down wiht one hand and that is solidly and elegantly attached to the camera. It looks like Kinotechnik's LCDVFe has taken this in condideration.

Kinotehnik - Overview (http://www.kinotehnik.com/products/electronic-viewfinder/overview)

Thierry.

I made the plunge and got a SmallHD DP4-EVF a few weeks back. I'm using a NAGA style arm at the moment but I will be changing the mounting solution in a couple of weeks. Will post up once I get it sorted.

I am very much liking the EVF on the page you have linked to Thierry. It sure looks promising. Mitch from Abel Cine Tech made some overtures about an EVF with a different approach coming out hopefully in a month or two. He's saying we should watch for it but won't disclose any more.

I am very happy with the DP4-EVF. As a focusing tool it doesn't get better than anything else on the market in the sub $1000 range. Mounting is the big issue with all of them.

Ron,
I don't understand how do you attach the nano flash to the system. From the first picture it looks like it is attached to the battery, is that so?
Thank you for your input,
Eugen

Latest iteration of getting this camera right for handheld:

Element Technica baseplate.

Camera Accessory Solutions Spidergrips

Zacuto knuckles and odds and ends to mount EVF without Noga arm, so you can move it with one hand during shot.

Camera is balanced *almost* perfectly, without adding any weight to counterbalance.

Geez, and it only took 7 months and $3000!

Looks nice and clean Nate, but how could that setup be perfectly counterbalanced when most of the weight is fore of the ET shoulder mount...?

On my show we are running dual Dionic 90's with an AB whaletail and an MD-RDA off the rear rods from the ET baseplate and my guys report that it is pretty close to balanced but not perfect.

I'll get pix in at some point. The Aluras are looking quite dashing on the F3's.