Andy,

I'm enjoying my 900 as well, pretty amazing little camera. I'm finding the images very sharp. One area that is taking a little adjustment for me is the Bokeh. I seem to get a "X" diagonal pattern in out-of-focus elements rather than the smooth blur I get with the 7D. Not necessarily bad, just different than what I'm accustomed. You can see some of what I mention in the background of the following picture.

Sound. Yep, I hear you! I worked hard on trying to use some of the bird sounds (there are a lot of birds in Cherry Hill that make those trees and the Cathedral their home - as you can see). Truth is I captured sound with my new Rode VMP but (even at 05.50AM) it was ruined by the near constant background traffic noise of people rushing to work (to nearby Cambridge, London and no doubt lots of other places). Years ago I was one of them. Despite appearances of being in an isolated medieval setting, the Cathedral is right in the heart of the (albeit very small) city of Ely. There were also a lot of near constant train noises from the nearby station as well. Ely is one of the busiest small town stations in the whole of England due to the Victorians decision to make it a major junction with trains going to many major cities every few minutes., There is also a lot of to/from European freight traffic too! The air was very still the first hour or so (hence no tree movement for a while either). In such conditions, all this "unwanted sound" can travel for miles and sure enough my Rode picked it all up loud and clear - along with the bird song.

So, in the end, I took the decision just to just "go with the music" for this particular edit.

Static Shots - Yep, I see you! I had quite a few panning shots which I either screwed up (its such a light cam on the Libec TH650 compared to my EX3 on a bigger tripod - still getting used to that!) or I was not happy with the lighting of those few shots regarding the daybreak story, dark stillness to activity and travel type thing I decided to try and show. As we all know, at sunrise (and sunset) the light changes every few seconds and you have to work VERY fast to try and capture the moment. Loads of shots in there I would have liked more time to get better position, better exposure, better composition, better focus etc.

In truth, most of the type of shots I wanted happened within about 30-45 minutes - not even a full Golden Hour - I was short changed! I set myself the challenge to get everything I could in a short period of time on Monday morning and then Monday evening to edit it - and this is it!

I also deliberately wanted to see just how sharp the thing would deliver in the very dim, then soft early morning light (but, unlike my previous TM900 videos, did not call this video a "test" - my mistake I guess). This dictated the type of shots I decided to take - mostly static shots of trees and architecture etc. where I deliberately wanted to avoid any motion blur - as you've noticed Mark!!!! Anyway, I've proved that the cam is amazingly sharp now so normal stuff will soon follow!

I will say, having such a highly portable light cam as the TM900 with its "instant on" function enabled (and my small tripod) really helped my move around the area very fast to try and capture what I saw in a way I would have struggled to do so easily with my EX3 and my big heavier tripod.

I basically squeezed this little short in around a ton of other (paid) work I'm doing (and perhaps should be doing right now!) just to give my brain a break and get to know the cam better!

Mark. I thank you kindly for you comments. I guess I really must be "a pro" at this video malarky as I'm constantly analyzing my previous work seeing things that I should and could have done better, this one included - as soon as I'd uploaded it I thought of lots of changes I would have made....given more time in the shooting and the editing. Anyway, this process is greatly helped by constructive criticism from those willing to spend the time to give it in the true spirit of helping others. And in return I try and share the little things I learn along the way as no doubt some of you have noticed.

Andy,

I'm enjoying my 900 as well, pretty amazing little camera. I'm finding the images very sharp. One area that is taking a little adjustment for me is the Bokeh. I seem to get a "X" diagonal pattern in out-of-focus elements rather than the smooth blur I get with the 7D. Not necessarily bad, just different than what I'm accustomed. You can see some of what I mention in the background of the following picture.

Yep, that's why I went with the 7D and Canon 100mm Macro IS with my flower shots in Springtime Sunrise. You will also see the X pattern (caused by the 4 blades resulting in a simple diamond shaped aperture of the iris on the TM700, TM900 etc. - and most other small camcorders, BTW) in one or two of my "direct at sun through the trees shots". In addition, the small sensors (albeit 3 of them) give the TM900 a much deeper depth of field compared to a larger chip cam like the 7D. It's not a look I like very much, at all, but its not a hugely expensive cam and it's tiny so I guess this is the trade off (or one of them anyway). It's just optical physics.

Maybe a "TM1000" (if one ever comes!) will have a 6 (or ideally 8) blade iris and a bigger 3-chip assembly and give nicer OOF globes, nearer to my lovely Canon 100mm IS Macro.... and still cost under a Grand. We can but dream!

The 7D and TM900 are definitely different tools with different uses. When I recently published my comparison report between the 7D and TM900 several people felt I was trying to show the TM900 as being superior to the 7D. Actually they both excel in different areas and can work together beautifully if you keep them in their appropriate space.

I shot some footage with the TM900 in full sun this week and it looks really great!

What export settings are you using for CS4 (If anyone here is using CS4) to make videos Vimeo friendly?

There is a page on the Vimeo site that covers compression settings using most of the popular NLEs

Dear Andy,

Thank you for sharing all these excellent TM900 videos.

I noticed you had used your Canon 7d for filming, too. May I ask you to make a comparsion video of the field of view of Tm900 in wide, also with canon 7d in wide (if you have 17-55 at 17 mm, or 18-55 lens at 18mm), please ?

Thank you.

How do I activate the Pre Record function, cant find it anywhere in the menu, does something else have to be activated first to allow this to function ?

Tans, sorry - bit too busy (with paid work) to do that but as a quick answer I can tell you now that the resolving power of the 7D in video mode leaves a lot to be desired (I have Canon 10-22mm F3.5 EFS and Canon 17-55 F2.8 EFS). You've read and seen many things concerning moire and aliasing on the Canon's I'm sure....

This does not matter for many things (e.g. when I'm using the 7D on my Steadicam Merlin for action shots) but looks horrible in some applications and in some commercial/technical video work I do it means it's actually unusable. The 7D is a very powerful tool for shallow DOF (depth of field) shots and of course the huge array of glass that can be put on it. The much bigger sensor means it's also much better in low light than a TM900. It's also a pretty decent stills cam. You'll have to chop my arms off to get mine ;-)

The TM900 on 35mm is superb, rivals the 1000 lines resolution of my EX3 in good light, no question.

There is no perfect cam HD cam - which is why I now have 4...and I make sure I fully learn what each is good and bad at ...and then use each in it's sweet spot (most of the time!)

Hope this helps. Maybe someone with more time can post something (or link to something already out there - Roger's tests are probably the nearest).

Andy,

Thank you for your answer. Actually I have canon 7d and 550d (same sensor), and I am thinking about buying a tm900.

As one of the primary place I would like to use this cam is filming at car shows. As you might know there are maximum 1 or 2 meter distance between the cars, and - if they are parking in several lines - 2-3 meter distance beetween their back.

For example: http://www.naborhome.com/images/car_show_park_jpv5.bmp (not my photo)

Last year I had no problem filming between the cars with 17-55 + Canon 7d, but I am afraid that the 30mm (which is a not a 1.6x crop, right ?) of TM900 will not be wide enough for such filming situations.

Thank you.

How do I activate the Pre Record function, cant find it anywhere in the menu, does something else have to be activated first to allow this to function ?
Found it. Should have looked harder

Page 57-58 of the manual. Accessed by the Up & Down arrows in the side bar menu thing (when you are on the correct bit). Note all things you can accidentally do to disable it (probably why you struggled to find it/get it working Colin!). I've yet to actually use it - 3 seconds is barely long enough (but MUCH better than nothing).

Andy,

....but I am afraid that the 30mm of TM900 will not be wide enough for such filming situations.

Thank you.

OK now I understand what you were asking and why. There are times when 35mm field of view is just not wide enough (for sure on my TM900 - and I can't easily just step back. I think some of the new Sony's go a little wider (high twenties I think). However, I may get the Panasonic wide angle adapter (its about £150) at some point - forgot the code but its on the Panasonic website with the TM900s under accessories. There are other makes but I've read somewhere that the Panasonic one is much better/sharper, better for zoom through etc. and I think I've seen the odd YouTube comparison video with and without one on etc. (may have been a TM700).

Maybe if someone has direct experience with a wide angle adapter on a TM700 or TM900 they could comment on the Pros and Cons of the options?

EDIT: It's the wider aspect one on the left in the attachment below that I was on about (the 0.7x), i.e. 35 x 0.7 = 24.5mm equivalent view. Should be wide enough for my Steadicam work (and the weight will help if my recent tests are anything to go by too).

EDIT 2: Found that video I was thinking of. Its a SD700 with and without the wide angle conversion lens. Hope this helps you Tans!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pG7Pihx6go

Not the most exciting video but it does show the difference well!

Page 57-58 of the manual. Accessed by the Up & Down arrows in the side bar menu thing (when you are on the correct bit). Note all things you can accidentally do to disable it (probably why you struggled to find it/get it working Colin!). I've yet to actually use it - 3 seconds is barely long enough (but MUCH better than nothing).
Thanks Andy, got it. Seems you have to reset it every time you have recorded a clip, would have been much more usefull if it could be left on permanently

Dear Andy,

I noticed you had used your Canon 7d for filming, too. May I ask you to make a comparsion video of the field of view of Tm900 in wide, also with canon 7d in wide (if you have 17-55 at 17 mm, or 18-55 lens at 18mm), please ?

Thank you.

Tans,

This isn't exactly what you asked for, but here are some comparisons of the 7D and TM900 in wide and close shots. Please note that the digital zooms in post are very extreme and make both platforms look bad - they are zooming probably 20x or more.

TM900 and 7D w/primes footage on Vimeo

Thank you Roger, and thank you Andy.

There is a page on the Vimeo site that covers compression settings using most of the popular NLEs

From what I found (And I could have read wrong) but Vimeo caps everything at 30 frames per second.

Thats right, what framerate do you want to use ?????

With this cam being 60p I would have liked to export it and have it view that way.

Maybe if someone has direct experience with a wide angle adapter on a TM700 or TM900 they could comment on the Pros and Cons of the options?
!

I have the VW-W46507H X0.7 wide angle adapter.

It's quite sharp. Yes it has some obvious distortion until you start to zoom into it but I've never found that to be a problem. Use it carefully and you can work with it quite effectively.

I own a couple of much pricier SONY 0.7 adapters and this is just as good.

Thanks Kirk. I have the Sony VCL-HG0737Y 0.7X Wide Angle (and the Cavision 77mm hood for it), bought for my Sony HC1 a few years ago and I'm very impressed with it - great bit of glass. Unfortunately, it fits a camera with s 37mm thread, not the 46mm needed for the lovely lens on the TM900!

To hear the Panasonic VW-W46507H 0.7X is in the same area of quality is indeed very encouraging. Pity no one in the UK seems to have them for sale at the moment!

With this cam being 60p I would have liked to export it and have it view that way.
Hey Jason, we all would lol. Have you tried editing this stuff ? you need a very high spec PC just to do simple edits. To stream full res would be nigh on impossible, and anybody viewing it would need a hell of a fast broadband connection/PC to play it out.
Mayby one day.

I have a few questions for folks with TM900's.

1. I have seen some TM900 comments regarding overexposure in bright environments. Some cameras, like my PD170 and the CX700 have an AE adjustment which allows you to dial down the exposure while remaining in autoexposure mode. I find myself shooting in autoexposure mode a lot because I don't want to be riding the exposure constantly as lighting conditions change or as I pan from a brighter area to a darker area. Modern cameras, when their autoexposure settings are accurate, tend to do a very good job of keeping the exposure nice without those visible step changes in brightness that often come when you change a manual setting. The AE adjustment (via custom preset) also allows me to match up my VX2000, VX2100, and PD170 so that they produce identical footage. (My VX2000 is quite a bit brighter than the other two with default settings.)

Is there anything on the TM900 that is similar to the AE adjustment on other cams? Does the intelligent contrast mode get rid of overexposure in bright conditions? If so, does it work well without other undesirable side effects?

2. It would seem that the TM900 is fairly power hungry compared to some of the other cams. This means that you need a big battery to shoot for 3 hours. The 2600mAH batteries are pretty deep (and expensive). Does the big battery stick out so far that it begins to interfere with using the eyepiece? I use the eyepiece a lot on my cams as a lot of my shooting is in bright sunshine. When in darker conditions I often don't want to put on reading glasses to use the LCD screen (sigh...)

3. I have a Raynox 52mm .66X wide angle lens that I use with an HV-30. My impression is that you can use this lens with the TM-900 by using a step-up ring. Anyone have any experience with this particular wide angle lens on the 900? If so, how well does it work? Or any experience with other wide angle lenses? Is the little .8X wide angle lens useful?

Alan,

I can't answer all your questions but here is some info/my perspective.

1. Unfortunately, if you dial down Exposure in the Picture Adjust settings, which can be accessed in Manual mode, then as soon as you switch to i(Intelligent) Auto it ignores them again. Ah well, I guess you can't have everything! However, the good news is that this cam is pretty easy and fast to use in Manual mode most of the time because of the lovely tools to help with Exposure. You can also quickly change between iAuto and Manual when needed because one of the few buttons on the TM900 is for just that purpose. In case you do not know, even in Manual mode you can elect to have Autofocus or Manual focus. The Autofocus is much better than any I've ever had before (including some pro cams I own/have used). The other bit of good news is that the TM900 will remember the Picture Adjust settings after a power off - so next time you go to use it and elect Manual you get those Picture Adjust settings again. I find a setting of -2 on Exposure seems to be working well for me in bright sunny conditions, others may have alternative suggestions. For the record I'm typically using -1 on Sharpness and -1 on Colour as well.

I've not had time to try Intelligent Contrast yet. There are lots of things I need to find time to try - so I'll add that to my list!

2. The TM900 is not, in my opinion, that power hungry. I'm getting amazing longevity out of the 2 batteries I have. I shot Springtime Sunrise on the small battery and barely used half of its juice during the time I was filming. It is perfectly easy and possible to use the viewfinder with the bigger battery on (you've seen my pics of it on cam earlier in this thread I'm sure). I know how it is - I wear glasses too, most of the time, although I take mine off for close up stuff! However, if I buy any more batteries I will probably go with another small one again - as they look a lot neater and last long enough for casual use. For any Pro use, why risk it, just stick a bigger battery on...(or plug it into the mains where you can).

3. I'll let others answer that ....I'm interested in learning more about all the wide angle options too! 35mm is pretty good but at times I wish it was able to do the 28-30mm area!

EDIT: I found this video that demos the "lightweight" Panasonic 0.8x adapter on a TM700 - again I can't seem to find anyone in the UK that sells this one either..... Panasonic TM700 + wide lens VW-WE08H on Vimeo

Hope this helps.

I do not use iAuto mode, and I do not think anyone should who wants to take good video with audio. But you still can have AE with exposure shift:

You can shoot in manual mode that also takes advantage of auto exposure. I fix the shutter at 1/60th (NTSC). Then iris is auto and focus is auto. To correct for any overexposure you can dial down exposure in Picture Settings. That will then allow auto exposure, but with a constant dial down from what auto selects. So focus changes and iris changes automatically in "manual" mode. generally, -2 on exposure is ok.

I also use manual auto - setting the audio level appropriately. That gives natural dynamics

If you go to iAuto, audio goes to agc, which is horrible, and shutter speed may go too high.

So in "manual" mode you have want you want - autoexposure (AE) and auto focus and exposure compensation to avoid overexposure, with a fixed shutter. You can also, of course, change to full manual iris and focus or any combination.

There is no reason to use iAuto that i can see.

[quote]
You can shoot in manual mode that also takes advantage of auto exposure. I fix the shutter at 1/60th (NTSC). Then iris is auto.
So in "manual" mode you have want you want - autoexposure (AE) and auto focus and exposure compensation to avoid overexposure, with a fixed shutter. You can also, of course, change to full manual iris and focus or any combination.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????

Another option for a wide angle adaptor is the 46mm 0.7 JVC GL-V0746, which costs the same as the Panasonic 0.7 one. It is relatively big and heavy.

Here is a comparison shot without and with the lens on:

YouTube - Test Video: Use of JVC GL-V0746 Wide Angle Adaptor on Panasonic TM900 (http://youtu.be/i5h2alateIw?hd=1)

0.7 seems a lot wider than a 0.8.

"You can shoot in manual mode that also takes advantage of auto exposure. I fix the shutter at 1/60th (NTSC). Then iris is auto !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????"

Is this a question?

Hi Mark, no, not a question, more a confusion, how do you figure on getting auto iris, when in manual mode, surely you have to select an f stop. From what you are describing, one may as well be in auto mode. Surely the reason for using manual settings is to make sure nothing alters when you take the shot, ie exposure, shutter, white balance etc.

How do I "figure"?

You did not master the guide book, and I was trying to help others out because I have actually used the camera (have you seen the videos I posted in this thread?). I am sorry you are confused.

No, you do not have to select an f-stop. In fact - as i said - if you select shutter speed and do nothing else in "manual" mode iris/gain is left in auto. So is white balance. Get it?????????!!!!!!!!!!!

Manual mode gives you the *option* to select individually wb, f-stop, shutter. It does not just lock them all down by pressing "manual". Understand????!!!!!!! You can lock them all down or only one or a set.

If you have the camera, you "surely" could have tried this yourself.

I forgive you.

No I didnt realise that was the case, and thank you for pointing it out. So in reality it is not a true manual mode. I am used to using cameras that lock everthing down in manual, and yes, I do have a TM900 and think its a fine little camera, I have actually cut footage from it with my EX1, they work reasonably well together. Your right, maybe I should read the manual a little more thoroughly. By the way, the exclamation and question marks were simply to illustrate my confusion.
Cheers.

No problem.

But it *is* a true manual mode if you want it to be. Panasonic "Manual" is just a mode in which essentially you can choose: aperture priority - set the iris only - shutter priority - set the shutter only - or set iris and shutter. So you can have "true" manual mode if you want. And, independently you can set wb, or leave it auto, or set focus manually or leave it auto. Every combinations of options you would want. Pressing iAuto sets everything - iris, shutter, focus, wb, audio agc - to auto all at once.

Hi

Just to add you don't get aperture priority, only shutter. Once you click the iris option, shutter speed is fixed at whatever it happens to be as far as I know and you are now in full manual mode for exposure, no auto adjustment.

To ask a question, when in manual mode initially, both shutter and iris are in auto mode, when you press the shutter menu option, that immediately puts you in shutter priority mode, how do you cancel that mode? Pressing the shutter menu item again cancels the adjustment options, but the shutter is still in manual. This can be confirmed by touching the LCD screen to see all the configuration icons and the shutter speed is shown on the screen. When the LCD shows the shutter speed, this confirms it is in shutter priority.

The only way I have found of getting out of shutter priority mode is to click the IA/manual button as once switched to full auto then back to manual, resets shutter priority. Wondering if there was a quicker way.

Regards

Phil

Ditto, my experiences are the same as you Phil. I'd love to know if there is a trick I'm missing too!

Need to spend more time with this cam!

EDIT: OK, got the camera out and played with this some more. Put it in Manual, select and adjust your Shutter speed on the LCD (typically 1/50th in PAL land, maybe 1/100th for doing certain things in post with slow motion etc.). It will then, as discussed above, give you AE (Auto Exposure) using the "dialed down" settings (e.g. -2 previously set in the Master Menu > Record Setup > Picture Adjust - on Page 7).

As long as you DON'T touch the Iris menu icon on the LCD Side Bar Tab you could shoot all day long in Manual with "user defined Auto Exposing settings". However, if you want to know what Iris is set at (and I'm that type so I'm always checking this!) and touch the Iris button on the LCD Side Bar Tab then it seems, from what I've just observed, just touching the Shutter menu icon AGAIN will return you to this "user defined AE status" - no need to touch iAuto button on the camera side at all. This is new to me as I was using it by selecting Iris settings totally manually for each and every shot, e.g. in that last film, - i.e. not relying on any Auto Exposure at all - so I'm pleased that Mark/Colin's discussion made it emerge. It gives another very useful way of using the cam!

Regarding Shutter Speed, I actually think it's good it'll keep whatever shutter speed you've selected in Manual Mode ad infinitum (even after power down back up) as, of course, this is something we rarely want to change in video.

So to go back to Alan's original question number 1, then the answer is now YES. Great news, and now I also see no obvious reason to touch that iAuto button anymore!

Yes, there is no need for iAuto at all if you understand the camera's operation.

I wish my iAuto button would go away, ha! Never used by choice but darn it I keep squeezing it accidentally when handling the camera. I don't mind resetting exposure but I don't want to have to reach for my grey card each time but fortunately custom WB is retained, but you do need to know one thing which is that after a trip to iAuto it will have been switched to AWB.

So remember to reselect custom WB.

NOT RESET WB

just

RESELECT custom WB.

Andy,

so to be clear on the -2 AE, you are saying that by adjusting shutter speed down 2 and not adjusting iris, the camera continues to adjust iris automatically resulting in the overall exposure remaining approximately -2 from what the camera would have chosen in AE?

As long as you have some wiggle room both ways on iris, this would seem to be a good deal. I was shooting the other day and found I still had automatic exposure after adjusting shutter, but I didn't do things systematically enough to draw these conclusions. If this holds true, this will be very useful, essentially giving us a Tv - shutter priority mode.

Alan's first question also asks "Does the intelligent contrast mode get rid of overexposure in bright conditions? If so, does it work well without other undesirable side effects?"

I'd like to once more state my opinion of this option, which is "not much!"

Every time I try it I tell myself not to use it ever again, heh! What I see happening and which is proved by the vectorscope in Edius is that all luma values over IRE 100 are very steeply compressed down to IRE 100. (remember most cameras record to around 109 IRE and these high lights can be rolled back smoothly in post to remain legal for distribution while enhancing the video. Conversely, all luma values at low levels of IRE are lifted and both dark and light areas are sort of squeezed and very widely expanded or "stretched" into the fixed range 0-100 IRE (16-235 RGB).

Perhaps you think this might be a good idea? After all everything is now clearly visible, no peering into shadows or seeing featureless skies? Also 0 - 100 IRE is the required legal range for broadcast, well, it's a trade off and for me the trade off seems to be that the image has becomes "plastic", "artificial", like a kiddie got loose with the controls in Photoshop.

I suggest NOT using this feature, instead make a sensible compromise while recording, choosing your bright and dark areas to record the maximum range of luminance you can, deciding yourself where the emphasis should be and go for it, then lift shadows in post, but don't use a contrast or brightness control unless you have a gap at one end or other of the luma range, this will just raise or lower the total scene as a complete block.. instead use either YUV filter or "curves". Then you can tweak dark, mid and and bright areas separately and restore balance while retaining a much more natural look.

With maximum recorded luma range that has not been "photoshopped" by the computer chip in the camera you get to decide the final look when in post. Well, that's how I see it, great camera, shame it's not as able to cope with extreme highlights as well as some pro cameras that offer a wide range of gamma profiles to shoot in, but heck at the price and it's ever so convenient small size, I think it's well worth going to some extra work in post for.

Hey Jason, we all would lol. Have you tried editing this stuff ? you need a very high spec PC just to do simple edits. To stream full res would be nigh on impossible, and anybody viewing it would need a hell of a fast broadband connection/PC to play it out.
Mayby one day.

I'm running my stuff on a high end PC. Editing isn't a problem (So far). In order to play back longer clips I have used Neoscene to make it easier on the computer. Still, when I bring it down to 720 at 60p I'm not getting that nice, smooth 60p feel. I'm just figuring a lot of video stuff out (I'm a photographer first...video is a recent 'hobby' since 2009). Not sure what to expect of the different sites. Still a lot to learn...

No problem.

But it *is* a true manual mode if you want it to be. Panasonic "Manual" is just a mode in which essentially you can choose: aperture priority - set the iris only - shutter priority - set the shutter only - or set iris and shutter. So you can have "true" manual mode if you want. And, independently you can set wb, or leave it auto, or set focus manually or leave it auto. Every combinations of options you would want. Pressing iAuto sets everything - iris, shutter, focus, wb, audio agc - to auto all at once.

As I mentioned a few posts back I am considering going for a TM900 and I would appreciate some clarification on this. Specifically, my understanding has been that the TM900, like it's predecessors, is essentially a Shutter Priority camcorder i.e. unless manually adjusted, the shutter speed is automatically set by the camcorder to (default) 1/50 (Pal models) or 1/60 (NTSC models). Aperture Priority, by definition, would imply that when the iris (only) is manually set, the camcorder automatically adjusts the shutter speed for optimal exposure. Is that really the case? And then what happens in iAuto mode - does the camcorder automatically adjust both iris and shutter speed to acheive optimal exposure, or iris only?

I`ve yet to get my hands on a TM900 to test myself, but could someone verify whether the displayed shutter speed changes (in a fast moving scene) when the iris is manually set ? It`s important to know, as to my my understanding, lack of a true Aperture Priority mode is one of the features that distinguishes the Panny`s from the Canon range of AVCHD camcorders which have this capability.

Thanks.

Bryan,

I'm sure others will help try and clarify this too but the TM900 will only "automatically set" it's own Shutter Speed when in iAuto. Forget iAuto. You sound like a guy who knows about cameras so you'll be shooting in one of the variants of Manual that the TM900 offers and this will bring you all the options recently discussed.

When set in Manual, a PAL version TM900 will give you 1/50 sec as the slowest selectable shutter speed and a NTSC 1/60th (I would imagine). Other slower Shutter Speeds are possible - but only in Automatic Scene modes like Colour Night Shot where, again, you have no control over (or ability to know) what the Slow Shutter actually is.

In the Manual mode, you set the Shutter speed for what you want - and that's it - it'll be there FOREVER at 1/50th or 1/60th or whatever, as long as you opt to use the camera in Manual mode. You can then set the Iris to whatever you want (or let it ride in AE as discussed in the last few posts, i.e. even with a user defined Exposure adjustment to help prevent clipping of highlights in bright sun).

Of course, once you've opened the lens to max (F1.7) then futher attempts will (obviously) just add Gain. There is no independent Gain control - but that's perfectly acceptable on such a small cam in my book. This Gain addition happens in paired steps (two visible Gain changes when only one reading increase is shown on screen in increments of 3dB) as you head right on up to +18dB...if you ever want to go that far....about +12dB is about my personal absolute limit, +9dB is better/really pretty noise free. See my low light video posted a while back on this thread for how this "paired" step-up works.

It's a lot simpler to understand with a camera in your hand! Basically, the shutter speed is MANUALLY set to 1/50th or 1/60th when in Manual mode and then you can decide to use Auto Exposure (or Manual) and Auto Focus (or Manual) and Auto White Balance (or the typical predetermined colour temperature options, or manually set). So, there is a LOT of levels of control in Manual - and you can easily leave one or more of these key controls in Auto whilst being in full control of the others, if you desire.

I don't know if the new small Canon's have better Manual control (I believe from handling them at recent Expos they are pretty good - I looked very hard at an XA10 but ruled it out on cost/bad ergonimics) but I hope that helps clarify things.

Maybe someone else can explain it better if this still leaves it unclear/I've missed or missunderstood something....I'm only now finding the time to really get to understand this lovely little cam!

Andy,

The TM900 has yet to hit the shelves in my locale, but, yes, I really do need to get one in my hands -"better felt than telt" as they say.

Anyhow, thanks for your clarification, which pretty much convinces me that, as I thought, the basic mode of operation is ("intelligent" this and that aside) essentially the same as of my trusty old Panny NV-GS400 DV camcorder (the "TM700/900" of it's day), at least in terms of available manual options. It was the suggestion of an optional 'Aperture Priority' mode that got me going.

Out of interest, does the TM900 iris not increase from f1.7 to 'Open 0db' before adding gain, as it does on the GS400 ? If so, (fully) 'Open', equivalent to f1.6, should perhaps be considered the maximum lens aperture.

Cheers.

Bryan,

I'm sure others will help try and clarify this too but the TM900 will only "automatically set" it's own Shutter Speed when in iAuto. .................

(Disclaimer.... I use a TM700........but I believe the 900 to be the same in this respect)

I'm not sure your statement is totally accurate Andy.... when you first enter Manual mode (by pressing the iA/manual button) the focus, white balance, shutter and iris settings are ALL in auto mode. You can now choose to switch any or all of them to manual with the sole exception that you cannot have auto shutter speed with manual iris. If you attempt to switch to manual iris only, the camera will "fix" the shutter speed at its current setting and you will now have manual shutter and manual iris. You can of course now change the shutter speed (...because it's now in manual mode...). Once the shutter has been changed to manual it will stay in manual until the camera is put back into iA mode. All the other three settings can be "toggled" between auto and manual as required.... but the way you toggle to automatic iris is to touch the shutter icon.... and then touch the iris icon to switch it back to manual...! Well, that's how it works on a 700 anyway...

The manual operation logic is actually one of the reasons I bought the TM700. I wanted to be able to run with a mixture of auto and manual features. The AF is good.... and the auto exposure is well damped in rapidly changing lighting conditions, so I'll maybe have them on auto, but with a manual 1/50th shutter (forcing the iris/gain to do the auto exposure) and I might have a manually set white balance. I have the freedom to choose the mix I want.... the sole exception being aperture priority auto. I can live with that.

If I'm honest, I would like to see a more easily accessed auto exposure offset (maybe by bringing "picure adjust" out onto the manual control or quick menu?) but you can't have everything.

I agree with Claire about Intelligent Contrast. Much as I'd like a gamma curve option (or two) that goes in that direction, the one on offer is very heavy handed. It is also disabled when using manual exposure. I find it unuseable most of the time.

dave

PS for Bryan.... The iris does indeed go to "Open 0db" and then on up the gain settings as you described... at least it does on a 700.....

PPS for Roger... I think Andy's "-2" was describing an exposure offset setting in the main menu (...there is a menu setting called "Picture Adjust"......). I hope I have clarified the other manual options in this post....

Wow. You guys have cleared things up for me a lot with your excellent series of posts. It sounds like there is a "picture adjust" that is similar to the custom presets on my PD-150. Great!

I do have a question regarding the display when in manual mode. Are the f-stop/gain and shutter speed always displayed when in manual? If so, then the sequence to shoot at a particular f-stop in full manual mode would be something like the following. 1). Put the camera in manual. 2) Hit the shutter icon. 3) Adjust the shutter speed until the desired f-stop/gain is achieved. 4) Hit the iris/gain icon. This will freeze the iris/gain and the shutter setting. Can you confirm that both f-stop/gain and shutter speed are displayed all the time when in manual? Are these displayed when in iAuto?

I wonder why they don't implement some sort of Aperature Priority mode to go along with the Shutter Priority mode that the camera has. Do you think that it is technically challenging in some way, or a way to differentiate from higher end cameras, or that they don't think it is that useful? The Sony CX700 provides it.

I am definitely running out of reasons for not going ahead and buying the TM900 instead of the Sony CX700. The only significant advantages of the CX700 relative to the TM900 (from my perspective) seem to be 1) the ability to shoot SD as well as HD, 2) the wider lens, 3) the lower power consumption, 4) the lack of any issues with beeps or fan noise in the audio, and 5) true aperature priority mode. From what I am hearing on this forum, item 3 is not that much of a problem and item 4 may not exist for most cams. The TM900 has advantages in 1) picture quality, 2) low light performance, 3) cost, 4) full manual mode, 5) better focusing in low light (anecdotal), 6) better control and I/O locations, 7) better viewfinder, 8) bigger LCD screen, and possibly 9) better image stabilization (anecdotal). At the end of the day the better PQ and better low light performance are difficult to ignore. I suspect B&H will be getting my order within a few days.

Alan, on the TM700 the aperture/gain and shutter speeds are only displayed after they have been switched to manual, so your proposed "workflow" would be impossible....

If I wanted to use the auto exposure as an "exposure meter", I would switch from iA to manual, frame the shot, tap the IRIS icon twice (second time is just to clear the dialogue box in which you make the iris adjustment)..... you will then be able to see the shutter speed and iris settings that the auto exposure was using. You could then decide on the values you wanted to use and set them manually... shutter speed first, (which will drop the iris back into auto) and then the iris.

(I would be grateful if a 900 owner could confirm that the 900 is the same in this respect.)

On your advantages comparison, I'm not sure I would call the low light capability of the TM700 spectacularly good.... but then again,I am not familiar with the 900 or the Sony......

dave

(Disclaimer.... I use a TM700........but I believe the 900 to be the same in this respect)

I'm not sure your statement is totally accurate Andy.... when you first enter Manual mode (by pressing the iA/manual button) the focus, white balance, shutter and iris settings are ALL in auto mode. You can now choose to switch any or all of them to manual with the sole exception that you cannot have auto shutter speed with manual iris. If you attempt to switch to manual iris only, the camera will "fix" the shutter speed at its current setting and you will now have manual shutter and manual iris. You can of course now change the shutter speed (...because it's now in manual mode...). Once the shutter has been changed to manual it will stay in manual until the camera is put back into iA mode. All the other three settings can be "toggled" between auto and manual as required.... but the way you toggle to automatic iris is to touch the shutter icon.... and then touch the iris icon to switch it back to manual...! Well, that's how it works on a 700 anyway.....

Dave, this is correct for the TM900 too - I'd not explained this bit very well (sorry for the lengthy quote but it seemed the best way to make sure this is finally nailed once and for all!)

Dave, I can also confirm that the "exposure meter" on screen display works as described but on my TM900 you just need to tap on the main part of the LCD (at any time) to bring up shooting and camera information - i.e. it is independent to whether or not the Side Bar Menu Tab is displayed or not. Info stays on screen for a couple of seconds. Alan, the detailed camera/shooting info is not displayed on the LCD in iAuto, a tap just brings up a few things things like battery level, Image Stablisation indication etc.

Also, when in Manual, in my main Menu options I've also got Exposure Meter and Histogram enabled (and Peaking to aid manual focussing, on adjust for a couple of seconds) and these 1st two come up with the Iris tab tap, the last one when adjusting focus manually, obviously!

Alan, looks like a good comparitive list. CX700 has higher res screen (unimportant and overuled by its reduced size, IMO - the Panny screen is really very good, albeit a bit oversaturated). The CX700 has a lot more on-board flash memory (96GB instead of 32GB) which partially offsets/accounts for its higher cost. I would add the advantage of the 20x iZoom of the TM900 to your list as another reason to go with the Panny - it really is very good as I hope some of my test films demo - but that is slightly offset by the fact that the Sony goes wider than the TM900's 35mm at the other end! The TM900 is probably better in low light than the Sony - it's much better than my old HC1 or V1 that's for sure but, like Dave, I would not say it's a king pin in this area. My 7D and EX3 feel "unthreatened" compared to the TM900! Give the TM900 adequate or good light and, as you've seen from Mark's videos etc., it delivers spectacular images.

I'm sure either the TM900 or Sony CX700 would be an excellent small form 1080p50/60 cam to have - I know one of them certainly is. Good luck choosing what's right for you.

P.S One other correction - that I've just discovered! I stated a few posts back that the slowest selectable shutter speed was 1/50th. It is of course 1/25 (but that only becomes possible when Slow Shutter is enabled). For NTSC I imagine it'll be 1/24th.

As of this week (4/18/11), the TM900 street price appears to be $999.

FYI

If I could just try one of these out then I'd be positive that there aren't any surprises. However, no one in the area has them. I looked at the CX-700 today at BB. I just can't believe the location of the headphone jack and the external mike connection. What was Sony thinking?

I did think of another question with respect to the TM900. Is it possible to zoom slowly and smoothly with the zoom control on the top of the camera? How about with the zoom ring? This would be important if using the camera to film events. My impression is that the zoom ring on the front may be clumsy to use when the LCD is open if you are hand-holding the camera. Is that the case?

Are there any issues downloading video files from the internal flash memory? I've noticed that some CX700 customers have complained about slow downloads with the CX700 as compared to the CX550. If you enable relay recording before you start filming, then I guess you can transfer the video stored in the internal memory to the SD card. Does this take a long time? It sounds a bit risky as the video file is deleted from the internal memory when it is copied to the SD card. Are folks typically using the internal memory and downloading from the camera afterwards or typically using the SD card and then removing the card for download afterwards?

If you wanted to use the TM900 as the B cam, then what more professional looking A cam would you recommend that would match nicely with the TM900? (I am absolutely spoiled by the 3 identical cams that we currently use as color matching is a non-issue). Although the TM900 might actually work well as the A cam for some of the events that we shoot (w/ an external mike), our credibility would be in question if we actually filmed with one. So we would need a more professional HD cam for our main cam.

I wonder if the price will drop some more.... $999. Wow.

Alan,

Creep zooms are really very easy with the top button (this was a dellightful surprise to me when I first got the cam). If you are on a tripod and accidentally leave the Image Stabilisation on while you try and do it then it'll do funny things to the picture (like it did in my low light test video!) - but that's just operator error. It's really very good at this. It's less easy to do a creep zoom with the lens ring (simply because the camera is so small and light) but with practice you'll be fine.

Download speeds seem fine - compared to the other cams I use - no issues at all that I can see. I just plug the camera into the PC via a USB lead, copy the whole folder (CAM MEM and everything in it, i.e. with its file structure intact) into a newly named master folder on my PCs RAID 0 drive, e.g. 'TM900 Ely Sunrise Clips'. This is to future proof me for other NLE ingest. Once copied, I then burn that folder to DVD or DVD-DL to have a back-up archive if ever my RAID 0 on the Win 7 box I'm using ever goes funny.

I've been using a solid state workflow for nearly 3 years and it's just so much better than hours of boring tape capture in real time :-)

Regarding the "professional camera".... well I use an EX3 and 7D. I hear you on that - some of my clients would raise an eyebrow if the ONLY camera I turned up on site with was a TM900 - for sure!!!! The few clients that have seen it in action, so far, were totally comfortable with it. This is probably because I was using it mostly for close-up technical work (on a table dolly) or in cramped situations around machinery. So, my reason for it's choice was obvious, even to a non-techie. I also explained why I was going to use it before getting it out of the kit bag. They had already seen me use my "pro cams" for the bulk of the shots, interviews done previously etc. No issues. Great images.

For sure, colour correcting would probably be a little easier if you stick within one camera manufacturer - something I find hard to do! Maybe when I eventually upgrade to Final Cut Pro X with its 1 click colour correcting this will be so much easier anyway! The most obvious suggestion would be to take a look at some of the new Panasonic cams announced at NAB or maybe a HMC40/41 (I have no experience of that model but many on here do).

I wonder if the price will drop some more.... $999. Wow.

Of course it will. The HDC-TM700 was down to $850 by July last year.

In January 2012 they'll announce the successor to the TM900 and we'll all wonder if we should keep the old one. Early adopters will pay the premium price and the discussions will continue here.

"If you enable relay recording before you start filming, then I guess you can transfer the video stored in the internal memory to the SD card. Does this take a long time? It sounds a bit risky as the video file is deleted from the internal memory when it is copied to the SD card."

1. Relay recording has nothing to do with copying files from internal memory to the sd card. RR allows a seamless handoff to the sd card if you, while filming, run out of internal memory. Then afterwards you reconstruct the complete clip. This is nice to have, but I do not think it would happen much.

2. You can copy internal memory files to the sd without erasing the internal files. This is independent of whether you allow RR or not.