I am beginning to get requests for event videos (for theatre and conference panel work) and two camera coverage: one locked down on a wideshot and the other a roving camera for closeups.

However, short of buying a second NX5U (waiting for business to grow a bit more), I was thinking of using my current NX5U as the roving closeup cam on a Sachtler FSB-4 head...and then thinking of what could be a good locked off WIDESHOT camera that would compliment the NX5U (same AVCHD recording in HD) without shelling out another 4K.

So as I look at alternatives, they are:

HDSLRS...but I think only the Panasonic Lumix GH2 (about $1,500 with kit lens) has the ability to record over one half hour...and fill up your card completely. Most of the other HDSLRs are limited in recording time which would not work for longer duration coverage in a theatrical kind of show.

Sony does make an ultra compact AVCHD camcorder, the HXR-MC50U, for $1,599 retail...Exmor R sensor, 1080 @ 24 Mbps...though all recording modes are 59.94i.

If I recall, wideshots are the true test of a camera's higher resolution...so I think the HDSLR would excel in that kind of locked off wide shot. So I am wondering if I would be able to successfully intercut wide shot footage from the Panasonic Lumix GH2 while shooting my closeups with the NX5U.

Sony has their new "alpha" range of HDSLRs...but record times I believe are 30 minutes or less.

I'm sure there will be a diversity of opinion about this...but the central theme here is to look for a lower cost (under $1,500) viable second camera capable of longer record times (say a one hour and 15 minute first act of a play) that could be dedicated to wider shots...and still cut well with the NX5U (shooting 1080 30p or 60i).

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...

Thanks, John

Hello John,

I own two NX5U and I also use a Sony HDR-CX550. That sure does the trick as an extra camera, it shoots the AVCHD format then the NX5U and you can use the internal hard drive or a SDHC card.

I am very please with the image, in some instances it makes better shot than the NX5U. As per the price, it would be under 1,500$.

Unless, I am wrong you can only use 1080 60i with the HDR-CX550. However, this is not the main camera making it a good fit.

Good luck!

I agree the CX550 and the XR550 are very good choices especially considering you are staying within sony's line of avchd cams.

There are also some other options which may be better due to newer recording formats such as the new Panasonic HDC-TM700 which shoots 1080p 60p allowing you to get some amazing slow motions shots without having to sacrifice resolution. Another benefit the TM700 has over the CX550 and the XR550 or any other similar prosumer contender for that matter is the price! 749$!!! This is currently the best choice hands down.

Although i love my DSLR as it gets Stunning Depth of Field shots as well as shoots at 50mbps. The clip durations of 12min dont work very well with live events if you want to just leave it on a tripod unattended. I have done many successful event shoots with 2 DSLR's and 1 NX5U being the Wide Locked off Shot. The trick is to leave the NX unattended as i have the FMU128gb drive so it can sit there forever (11 Hours). My partner and I would then use the 2 DSLR's to do the roving closeups and then intercut those clips seamlessly with the NX wide shots. Then once the 12min clip durations end on the DSLR, you wait 5 seconds and hit record again. Worse comes to worse you only miss those 5-10 seconds of the event. A Solution to this would be to plan accordingly with your partner so that he was recording during that 5-10 seconds so your covered from all angles.

Considering that your only looking for a B camera which eventually as you said, will turn into a C camera. Save your money and get something under 1000$ like the TM700 until you pick up your 2nd NX5U. I do suggest a DSLR however because it will make your clients much more happy as it looks very similar to film. The GH2 would be a great choise or simply spring for the new T3i by Canon that was just released (800$). Whatever you decide, you have many options that will work well. Good luck!

Panasonic HDC-TM700 High Definition Camcorder HDC-TM700K B&H

Also, be aware that the new 2011 Panasonic cams will be available in the next 2-3 weeks. After reading a recent Camcorderinfo review of the (new) Canon HFG-10 and it's comparison section with the TM700, I've just ordered a Panasonic TM900 (for £775 here in the UK) and the (very reputable) dealer tells me they will arrive on 26th Feb at his shop.

It's basically the same as the much acclaimed TM700 but has a bigger and better resolution LCD screen and a few tweaks to the image processing etc.

http://panasonic.net/avc/camcorder/hd/900_800_series/

It will shoot about 35mm FOV on the widest setting (you can buy a relatively inexpensive wide angle adapter if that's not enough). It's also 3D capable too (with a silly looking optional attachment) but I don't care about that! With it's on-board memory (32GB) and all the 16GB SDHC cards I already own it'll provide me with 8 hours of razor sharp 1080p50 footage as a B or C cam, crash cam etc. should I ever need it (along with many other benefits like a small, always have it with you cam, holiday cam), and all for the price of one decent lens for my Canon 7D.

My Sony EX3 and Canon 7D (and all it's lenses) are superb kits but I don't carry them everywhere...

So if you go the Panasonic route make sure you get a (even better) deal on a 2010 model or wait for the new ones to hit!

EDIT - Just got this e-mail from my UK supplier:

"Good news! We have had further updates. The Panasonic TM900 have already been dispatched to us and it will be with you Tuesday 15th February."

Waiting for this to be released next month:
Sony HDR-CX560V HD Flash Memory Camcorder HDR-CX560V B&H Photo

I suggest skipping the new CX560 and looking instead at the CX700. If I recall correctly, the CX560 will be viewscreen only --- no viewfinder. Not a problem when shooting stage shows indoors but can be a big problem when you need to shoot in very bright lighting, particularly outdoors.

I also would suggest skipping the MC50 as it is nothing more than a CX550 dressed up with a lens hood and a proprietary external shotgun mike. Not worth the $400 price difference, in my opinion, at least for a second cam to pair with your NX5.

If you want progressive recording options, I would look at the new CX700. It is expected to be $1299. It is basically a CX550 with the addition of 1080p and 24p capabilities, zebra stripes, "expanded focus" and peaking (for better manual exposure and focus settings), and more internal flash memory (96 gb versus 64 gb for the CX550), but has a slightly smaller viewscreen (3" on the CX700 versus 3.5" on the CX550).

Like Daniel, I also use a pair of CX550 cams with my NX5 (and an FX1000) for theater and dance video. They match very well. Sony's default settings for the CX550 are a bit too bright and you will likely find that you will want to dial down the AE settings. I use -2. Some folks go down to -4.

I find that CX footage rarely requires color adjustments to match the other cams in editing. Because much music and dance can be high-motion/high-contrast, I have generally shot in 1080i, and never found it a problem. The CX 550 cams do not do progressive modes.

If you really want to 1080/60p or 24p modes in you B cam, you've got a couple of choices. One is the new CX700 listed above and the other is the older but well-thought of Panasonic TM700. The TM700 is less expensive (currently $799 US, I believe).

As I recall, opinions seem divided on whether TM700's 1080p (which is recorded as 28Mbps Mpg) is perceptibly better than its 1080i 24 Mbps AVHCD. Do note that the 1080p mode produces much larger files which cuts recording time by about half. Since the TM 700 only has 32 gb of onboard memory, the resulting limited recording time may be inconvenient for running in 1080p mode as an unattended b cam for video of stage production.

The CX550v has twice the on-board flash memory capacity (64 gb) and the CX700 will have three times the capacity (96gb).

Both the CX550/700 and the TM700 go very wide when zoomed to full wide. They will both be much like the NX5 in that respect. The CX550 does a 10x optical zoom, the TM700 goes a skoonch longer to 12x. Not so great for being further back in a large venue. But, very useful for getting wide views and putting the cameras closer to the stage or performance area.

Like the NX5, the CX550/700 have Sony's enhanced "active steady shot." This pretty amazing for hand-held shooting but unimportant when you are running the small cams as locked-down "b" cams. (Actually, you should shut it off when running locked down unless the camera is next to loudspeaker or placed on a bouncy floor that dancers will shake.)

Some folks think the TM700 goes deeper into low light than the CX550, and some think the other way around. I do not have experience with the TM700 to say one way or the other. It seems unlikely that there would be much difference with sensors as small as these are. What I do know is that the CX550 (in low light mode) will go nearly as deep as the NX5 and tends to exhibit less video noise down at the bottom end of the light level. (Video noise -- pixel twitter and grain -- is endemic to low light shooting.) I've also found that the autofocus abilities of the CX550 are faster and sometimes more accurate in low light than the those of my NX5. But do note that running the NX5 manually --- as it was designed for such conditions --- can take care of those problems.

I have not tried matching TM700 footage with NX5 footage, so I cannot comment on how easily its footage (1080p or 1080i) will match up with the 1080i from the NX5. Your NX5 has a lot of adjustments, so you could, in theory, develop matching pre-sets to get similar color balance.

The CX550v is still a pretty good value. Last time I checked, B&H was supplying FV100 batteries with the CX550v, which would be $100 if purchased separately. (That makes the CX550 effectively about $200 more than a TM700). I got some "100" batteries with my CX550s and have never run out of battery power even when running the cams for hours and hours. (e.g., shooting two back-to-back performances of a nearly two-hour-long show and also mid-day to evening weddings.)

I know next nothing about the new Panasonic TM900 except that I believe that there will be an option to add a 3D splitter lens so you can record 3d if you wanted to do so. The price of £775 ($1275 US??) seems pretty close to that of the Sony CX700. I thought somebody (B&H??) was going to be offering them for $1099 (US$).

Very helpful information and I appreciate the level of detail in all your posts. Between the current model cameras and the newer ones about to emerge, there seem to be some plentiful lower-cost options for a "second camera" dedicated to wideshots. I'm printing out a hard copy of all your responses so I can better do my homework.

This is exactly why these forums can be such an asset...helpful not only to me, but many others as well. Thanks again for the excellent detailed responses! I'll update this this thread again after I make a decision in the weeks ahead.

Thanks,

John

You're welcome! Let us know what you end up going for and how it works out.

Thanks Jay...but for me, the small cam is only used for my wedding work...and specifically it is used during the ceremony as the 4th cam and where it is typically hidden....'

Waiting for this to be released next month:
Sony HDR-CX560V HD Flash Memory Camcorder HDR-CX560V B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/748430-REG/Sony_HDR_CX560V_HDR_CX560V_HD_Flash_Memory.html)

Hey Mark, did you wind up getting an NX5U?

I got three Mike...

Thanks Jay...but for me, the small cam is only used for my wedding work...and specifically it is used during the ceremony as the 4th cam and where it is typically hidden....'

Good point.

There have been a several times when I've stashed my tiny CX550 cams down front in stage shoots and weddings. I tape over the viewfinders to hide the little dot of light that calls attention to them. It is like hiding tally lights only the viewfinder makes a bigger dot. (In fact, I'll be doing this when shooting a dance recital tomorrow evening.)

Still, I've found the CX550 such nice little cameras that I almost automatically grab one to stash in a bag or backpack. For those kinds of uses, it is nice to have the viewfinder.

Somebody (Jim Stamos, I think) mentioned a not-terribly expensive "loupe" by Hoodman. It clips over the view screen and more-or-less converts it to a viewfinder. Seems a little cumbersome for those times when you need to access the touch-screen menu settings but helpful for when you are in really bright light and having a hard time with the viewscreen.

As I continue my research into an under $1,500 AVCHD camera to complement my NX5U, some users mentioned the Sony CX550 and others in that same model range. I downloaded the CX550 manual and as far as I can tell, correct me if I am wrong, that VIDEO GAIN IS AUTO ALL THE TIME...and the only manual controls you have control over are:

Iris, shutter, AE shift, WB shift...

The manual mentions "Exposure" but this is a touchscreen item...for example, you go to the area on the LCD that you want to expose for, touch it, the camera readjusts...but it doesn't say whether it's affecting the video gain or the iris or the shutter.

So I'm a bit in the dark as to whether this is FULLY MANUAL, allowing me to cap the video gain, while adjusting the iris, shutter, etc.

I obviously don't want the GAIN going up on me in low light situations.

I did do a test with a friend's Panasonic GH2 DLSLR...whose video picture is quite stunning...and it appears that I would have full manual control with it.

My usage of the camera is for locked off unmanned wideshots for event video to be intercut with the NX5U for closer in coverage.

If any one can cast light on whether the Sony CX model line gives you control over video gain (like the NX5U does), that would be very helpful. If I find that it doesn't, that the video gain is auto all the time and readjusts to the manual settings of the iris, shutter, etc., that would probably tilt me away from using it.

Thanks,

John

I have a CX550 and a TM700 and neither of them allow the gain to be manually contolled. The Sony does not even show the gain setting in record mode, you can only see it on playback. It will adjust the gain as you manually set the iris. The Panasonic shows the gain setting for manual iris, and once the iris is fully open it will start to increase the gain - this is about the limit to your control over gain on this camera.

The Sony is noticeably noisier in low light - the Panasonic's three chips seem to be able to control noise much better, except when light levels get really low in auto mode and it pulls out all the stops to get an image.

I use mine as remote cams for stage work so I need them to fend for themselves in full auto mode or in one of the scene modes. The Sony copes well with stage lighting and gives acceptable colour balance and rarely burns out highlights if you drop the AE shift back a bit. The Panasonic's auto WB gets confused sometimes and needs to be manually pre-set, but in spotlight mode it handles high contrast lighting extremely well without burning out faces.

I downloaded the CX550 manual and as far as I can tell, correct me if I am wrong, that VIDEO GAIN IS AUTO ALL THE TIME...and the only manual controls you have control over are:

Iris, shutter, AE shift, WB shift...

The manual mentions "Exposure" but this is a touchscreen item...for example, you go to the area on the LCD that you want to expose for, touch it, the camera readjusts...but it doesn't say whether it's affecting the video gain or the iris or the shutter.

The front dial can control: Focus, Exposure, Iris, Shutter Speed, AE Shift, and WB Shift.

However, you can only control one of the following at once: Exposure, Iris, or Shutter Speed. So you can control one of those while still setting focus, WB shift, and AE shift. If it's dark I usually run mine at 1/30 shutter speed with low lux off. Low Lux mode is 24dB and 1/30 at the brightest, with low lux off it'll only go to 18dB. If it's manned during a stage show it's at 1/30th and AE shift is used.

I am beginning to get requests for event videos (for theatre and conference panel work) and two camera coverage: one locked down on a wideshot and the other a roving camera for closeups.
You could look at the used market for a similar B camera (that way exposure and settings will be identical). Regardless of whatever you get, you'll find the biggest obstacle of a 2nd unmanned camera is getting the exposure right and changing media/tape. That won't be an issue for conferences because the light doesn't change, but for theater work it constantly changes, often resulting in unusable over/under exposed footage of the unmanned camera. In addition theater black backgrounds make non-manual exposure cameras useless and low light make small sensor cameras look awful.

One way to address maximum length limitations of DSLR cameras and exposure adjustments is to put both the wide and close up camera next to each other. You can quickly reach over make adjustments or change media. Some venues don't allow for this or if you need to get different angle of view you'll be put in a difficult situation. Keep in mind that DSLR can stop recording before they reach maximum length if it gets too hot.

Some points in response.

One of the nice things about the CX550 is that you don't have to think about changing tapes or media unless you are shooting all day festivals where you have more than six hours continuous shooting. The CX has 64 gb of flash memory on board and that's at least six hours of recording time. The NP-FV 100 batteries will keep the camera running for that amount of time, too. If you need to go longer than 6 hurs at a time, you hook the camera to the power supply or swap in a new battery and record to SD cards. You can get 3 hours of highest quality AVCHD on a 32 b SDHC card (or memory stick if you prefer.) The new CX700 will go 9 hours on internal memory.

Finding a used "similar" B cam is sometimes a good idea but, in this case, would not be budget friendly. A used NX/5 or AX2000 --- assuming you can find one --- will cost at least 3 times the price of a CX500 ot TM700. Sony's Z5 and FX1000 are very similar to the NX5 and more available used. They still will have a cost 2 to 2½ times the price of a new CX and you would need to buy an MRC unit to get tapeless recording (adding another $750 to the costs).

The CX cams are so close in color to your NX5 --- if you are careful not to screw up your NX5 settings --- that you will not often have a need to color match. Again, the CX cams run a bit bright and down shifting the AE setting is a good idea for stage shows.

As for dealing with changing stage lights, the previous poster is correct that this can be a problem with unmanned cameras, I've found the auto programming in my CX cams is so good, that image blow-outs are much less of a problem than in the past. This is one of things the reasons I've been very pleased using my CX cams as "locked down" b cams. The are a couple of problemmatic lighting situations but there are easy work-arounds for both of them.

Problem # 1 is black-outs between scenes. Black-outs can really confuse auto-focus on any camera and result in several seconds of "focus hunting" when the lights come back up. There are three simple solutions to this with the Cx cams: (a) manually set a fixed focus on your mid-stage area; (b) use the spot focus mode; or (c) use a spot focus/spot exposure mode which also keeps the exposure constant for the area you've selected.

Problem # 2 is the roving spotlight which can blow-out (over-expose) what it highlights. If you know that spots will be used in the show you are videoing, you select spotlight mode in the CX menu. I've found that the CX's spotlight mode does a pretty good job. It can be a make dim areas seem relatively darker, but that is pretty much true of manual exposure controls, as well.

The previous poster suggested running a multi-cam set-up where you have two cameras with you. I have done this but only when I've been running at least three cameras where the other cam(s) have very different angles of view. It seems to me that the benefit of having the B cams is to have such a different angle of view that you don't get jump-cuts or apparent "jump zooms" when you need to cut away from your manned camera view. Where I've been manning two cams is in stage shots where I know I'll need close-ups of actors or dancers who are far apart on the stage. Say, a dialog where there will be actor on stage right bantering with another actor stage left. Like shooting a tennis match with one fixed cam of the whole court and one cam for closeups on each player.

That brings me to a final point. Some videographers, like the previous poster, are partial to DSLRs. I would be wary of trying to run an NX5 (which you got for manual mode controls, right?) while also manning a DSLR. I am not knocking DSLRs; they certainly can be a useful tool. But they are so different from my NX5 that I personally would find it very difficult to try to double up with the NX5 and a DLSR. When I "double-up," I want the other camera to either be very similar my NX5 (I use an FX1000 with an MRC unit for this kind of double-up) or else I want something that works so well in auto mode that I don't have to worry about anything other than pointing it and maybe zooming (a CX550 being my favorite for that.) For more on this, Ron Evans has some DVinfo postings on doing this when shooting stage performances with a manned NX5, a couple of the CX predecessor models, and a manned EX3.

If I can add to Jay's comment is the fact that panning and zooming with DSLR cameras is also difficult. If you then have to film dance show or Sport event where you need to follow your subject, you might be unhappy with the result. Do not hesitate to correct me if I am wrong with my last statement. This is what I've seen so far since video came with DSLR cameras.

I have been quite surprised with the outcome of CX550, in some situations I've seen better result than my NX5U cameras. With what I've seen so far, I would not be scared to used this camera next time I have to film a dance show.

The only down point I see at this moment with the CX550 as a backup camera is that it does not shoot 720p/60.

As Jay mentioned we shoot with an EX3, NX5U a SR11 and XR500. Both SR11 and XR500 are fixed unattended cams set with spot focus ( for the reasons Jay mentioned with lights going to black etc) and AE shift set either to -3 for normal stage lighting or -4 for high contrast shows( sections of stage lit and the rest dark so would fool the auto exposure too much). WB set fixed to indoor preset on all too.All cameras run with the large batteries so will shoot continuously for well over 5 hours. EX3 will stop first filling up the Sony hard drive unit and I would be there a long time to fill up the FMU on the NX5U!!! I love the fact that there are no tapes to change or capture anymore.

As Daniel mentioned the little Sony's get a very good picture. In editing I often choose one of them as having the best picture !!!! Clearly on closeup the EX3 is the best but since it is run full manual like the NX5U there are instances where the XR500 has the best picture.

My CX700 should be in my hands next week and will replace the SR11 !!!

Ron Evans

Ron what advantages does the CX700 have over the XR550?

Main advantages for me are the return of zebra for exposure setting, expanded focus assist like the NX5U, peaking for focus setting, 1920x1080P60 as well as it has 24P which I do not want buts lots might like the fad. I think it also has an updated imager and Bionz processor. HDRCX700V | Full HD 96GB Flash Memory Camcorder | Sony Canada (http://www.sonystyle.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=20153&catalogId=100803&langId=200&productId=8198552921666294237)

Ron Evans

Also, the CX700 has 96gb of flash memory (plus whatever you add via SD cards) while the XR550 has a 240GB hard drive. I'm guessing that Sony upped the flash memory in the CX700 because 1080/60p eats storage space more quickly than flavors of 1080i do.

A lot of nice features but keep in mind its 1- 1/3" sensor

If you can wait til the summer, Sony's coming out with a new compact NXCAM camera. It will have a dust and rain proof body, a detachable XLR module and 96 Gb of internal memory. That's 8.8 hrs. of continuous recording at 24mbps.
It's about the same size at the JVC HM100. Price, under $3,500.

For you NXCAM fans, there's also an upcoming Super 35mm sensor camera and a 3D compact camera that doesn't require 3D glasses to view the monitor.

Thanks, everyone, for all the comments...very helpful...

Ron...

Two followup questions for you...

1. Your CX model...because you have no control of the video gain, do you find the gain getting noticeably noisy in low light stage events? Just wondering how that cam will look when intercut with the NX5U under varying lighting conditions.

2. You mentioned the new CX cam will record 1080 60p. If you will be intercutting footage in that format with the NX5U...which would most likely be 1080 30p, how will that working on the editing timeline? Will your sequence for editing be a 30p sequence and when you add in the 60p footage, the editing software would drop every other progressive frame as it plays back on the fly?

Thanks for any tips!

John

I shoot theatre and the XR500 is used as the full stage view fixed unattended. I set the AE shift to -3 or 4 depending on what I know of the stage lighting. Under almost all condition it has less noise than the NX5U and a lot of the time less noise than the EX3. Intercuts with both easily. I set focus with the spot focus before the show starts and then when going on a well lit scene to check. Clearly if it goes to 18db gain it will be visible but most of the time this is not the case and the auto exposure is very good at containing the noise.

The NLE's should have no problems with a 60P on a 60i timeline as the temporal motion is the same. There are just full frames instead of fields. I do not like the slow frames rates so it will be 60i for all my projects until I have all the cameras at 60P. I will run the CX700 at 60i for the theatre shoots and use the 60p for family stuff. The output will still be 60i as Bluray and SD DVD are 60i anyway. Remember that 60i is only called 29.97 because two fields make a frame. Unfortunately they are not part of the same frame as they are 1/60 sec apart!!! The camera exposure rate is 60 frames a sec just like a 60p camera its just that only a field is recorded not a full frame.

Ron Evans

John:

I have to ask why NX5u footage "would most likely be 1080 30p" when you are shooting 60p with a CX700?

I avoid 30p for the same reasons Ron has often cited elsewhere. 1080/30i (what we used to call 60i before the offical nomeclature changed) and 60p will intercut quite well. You can edit it all on a progressive timeline if you choose. As Ron points out, you will still have to convert to another format for DVD or Blu-Ray, but you can store it as 60p for some future time and new media, if you want to .

On the other hand, it seems to me that, if you really like slower frame rates --- and some folks do have that personal preference --- you might as well skip 30p shoot in 24p which both the CX700 and NX5 will do.

As for noise, video noise is endemic in the darkest areas when shooting in dim light. That said, you will be suprised at how little there is with the CX cams in the lower reaches of its light sensitivity. The NX5 will go deeper into the dimness, but until you reach the absolute bottom of the CX sensitivity range, I've found my CX cams actually exhibit less noise in dimness than the NX cams do. This extra noise-cancelling porgraming in the CX is something that many of us wish had been available in the NX's auto modes, as well.

Thanks, everyone, for the very detailed thoughts about "second cameras." This is exactly what makes the forums so valuable...to learn from the experiences of others.

As of this moment, I seem to be leaning towards the older CX550 or the new CX560. The comments about how well the auto exposure seems to work for stage, in conjunction with the -AE shift and/or spotlight is a pretty compelling element for me, especially when it would be an unmanned camera to supplement the NX5U...John

John and Ron,

Could you not just Deinterlace the 60i footage of your NX and your EX3 to 60p. Then work on a 60p timeline? To me the benefits of 60p greatly outweigh the extra time to deinterlace the footage in Adobe After effects.

Also i heard that the Panasonic Tm700 has the best reviews right now especially for the price point. I still want to stick with sony but i hear the tm700's 60p mode is 28mbps which is better than even the NX5. Will the CX700 also have a similar 60p mode that has a higher mbps?

I'm currently thinking that the new CX700 with the advancded controls seems to be an NX5 killer IMO. It almost has me considering selling her. I'm starting to question the need for a 5000$ ProCamcorder when their consumer line seems to get the job done and almost surpass their pro line for under 1500$!!

If you really want to shoot in very dark areas the CX with Low Lux will match the NX5U with less noise. Both at 1/30 shutter but CX700 was at 21db gain and still had less grain than the NX5U. Very impressive. It will also switch to Nightshot that the NX5U doesn't have . Its green though !!! CX560 should be the same.

The newer cams like my CX700 have now switched to AE shift in EV and will go from -1.0 EV to + 1.0 EV . Not sure how this relates to the range before but will find out in a week for the next show and will set up XR500 next to CX700 so that I can compare the results.

Ron Evans

Hi Chris I am starting to ask myself the same questions about my NX5U. The real difference is the fulll manaul control on real buttons and rings. Trying to change things going through the menus on the consumer cams will not cut it. However if you run all the time in automatic then they are great and why have a NX5U for full automatic operation anyway. I would certainly get a new NX type cam if it was like a NX5U with the CX700 inside. Is all the controls of the NX5U but the internals of the CX700. Large single chip "R" sensor would be fine with a bigger lens. Maybe this will appear soon ?

Most output is interlace for Bluray and DVD so may as well stay in interlace. CX700 60p is the same 28mbps as the Panasonic and of course is needed to record both fields for the frame and may actually be a higher compression than the interlaced at 24mbps. Not sure how the facts turn out about picture quality from both approaches. I instinctively feel that a full frame would require somewhat less than twice the data of an interlace frame. In this case there are twice as many pixels and only about 20% more data. The big advantage for the consumer is that they can playback on their LCD TV without any deinterlacing artifacts.

Ron Evans

As always, Ron is the voice of reason.

I want to expand on Chris's comment: "I'm currently thinking that the new CX700 with the advancded controls seems to be an NX5 killer IMO. It almost has me considering selling her. I'm starting to question the need for a 5000$ ProCamcorder when their consumer line seems to get the job done and almost surpass their pro line for under 1500$!! "

There is a lot of personal preference in that statement. Which is as it should be.

That said, it seems to me that the CX cams are only "NX killers" when you have segregated your actual needs and interests from the insidious effects of the gear snobbery --- to which we all sometimes fall prey --- and concluded that your video work does not require the flexibility (and accompanying bulk) of the NX cams.

For me, the NX and CX cams are simply different tools and I use them accordingly. Where I might see the NX controls and functions as necessary tools for some jobs, they just get in the way at other times. Sometimes, the CX does everything I need, so that is the cam I use..

If the CX cams give you everything you want, then there really is no reason to pay three times the amount of money to get a much bigger and more complex NX cam. Alternatively, if you like multi-cam shooting, you can buy three CX700 cams for about what it costs to buy a single NX. .Whether this is a good deal or not depends on what you do, what you want to do, and how you want to do it.

I basically reach for my NX when I need the 20x zoom; when I want the XLR, LPCM audio recording, and audio fllexibility; where I'm shooting in varying light where the smooth gain and white balance switching.will be important; where I want to be able to separately control shutter speed, iris, and gain, and the ability to use all of them while manually focusing; and, sometimes, all of the above. I find these functions important for some stage shoots and recording musical performances and some weddings. On the other hand, when I'm recording a meeting or focus group in even and unchanging lighting, all that functional flexibility does not matter. all I need is to feed audio through an XLR adapter to an unobtrusive CX cam stashed out of the way. (Unless, of course, my customer suffers from gear snobbery and I need to bring the NX so they feel they are getting professional work.)

I've shot a couple of weddings recently which could have been captured with what Philip Howells called, in a thread in the events and weddings forum, a security cam approach. (You deploy an array of small fixed cams around the room -- call it a "RAIC" for redundant array of inexpensive cams with which you "rake" a lot of video.) I've done other recent weddings where the reception lighting was weird and troublesome for my CX cams but easily handled with the NX.

So, for me, I see the CX700 not as an "NX killer" but as a complementary tool where they work well together and each does jobs the other cannot do as well or as conveniently..

Very good points Jay i dont think you could have said it any better personally! I should have been more thorough in my post also knowing it would start controversy! When i stated "NX Killer" it was honestly just out of frustration.

You are absolutely right in all of your points, and i'm happy you pointed out gear snobbery as thats one of the points i should have included. You've actually convinced me to keep my camera! I guess i just needed to hear it shouted out loud from someone who loves their NX as much as i do. To be honest the 1 thing i'm upset about is 1080 60p but as you said this is where a CX can be used as a tool rather than a replacement. I'm praying for a Firmware update that i honestly know will never come due to hardware limitations.

Batman Killer? Definately not! Right hand man Robin to the rescue! :D Thanks again Jay

Just a further update...that as a result of the comments on this forum, I did purchase a new CX560 from B&H which is coming tomorrow. I have a paid gig that requires two cameras the first week of April, a panel conference, and it will allow me to use the zoom reach of the NX5U and leave wideshots to the CX560. After I gain more time with multi-camera shoots and how they cut together, I'll report back with an update.

Thanks to all...John

John, I hope (which I believe) you will be happy with your choice. I would recommend you read Ron Evans comments, he is the one who probably has most experience in using this type of camera and the NX5U together. Ron always provide valuable informations such as which setups (gain, spot camera...) he makes for each of his cameras when filming his theatre shows.

Next challenge, after filming the multi-cam event will be the post-prod. Which computing platforms are you using ?

Well keep us posted !

I've had recent success matching a NX5 and MC50 when using Picture Profile 6 on the NX5. Contrast & sharpness very similar. Do note my use for multi cams is usually indoors at weddings.

I was updating this thread now that I have had experience shooting with the new Sony CX560 as an inexpensive second camera to be used in multiple camera shoots with the NX5U.

I shot some concert footage of a British chorale group who were on a North American tour...finishing up with a concert in La Jolla, CA. Their record label is Harmonia Mundi...and they hired me to shoot several new songs which will be edited with some voiceover and will go up on some popular video sites as promotional pieces later in June.

The CX560 was a locked off wideshot camera and I was manning the NX5U as a closeup camera. They were both synced with a simple clapboard and the footage is now being edited in Final Cut Pro's multicam mode.

First, I will say right off the bat that the resolution and clarity of the CX560 is stunning (I never imagined a camera so small could look so good)...and it cuts very well with the NX5U. I took one of the picture profiles in the NX5U and tweaked it to match the look of the CX560 (as the 560 doesn't really have tweakable profiles itself). I recorded the 560's footage to its own built-in flash drive. It takes SD cards but there is no way on that model to do a simul record like you can do with the NX5U.

All AVCHD footage was recorded in 1080 60i and converted to ProRes.

So for my very limited use of this camera as a locked off wideshot (in June I'll be shooting some panel conferences with it), it certainly delivers great footage...and is a viable second camera in those kind of situations with the NX.

Ron Evans owns the next higher up model, the CX700, which adds additional features. And I know he's impressed with the results he has been getting.

So if you are on a shoot with your NX5U and you need a second camera...for around 1K the CX models can give you great results under certain conditions. Unless, of course, you can afford a to buy a second NX5U...or it's less expensive cousin just revealed at the NAB....I think 3K?

Thanks for those that contributed to this thread...and I feel very good about the purchase and how it complements the NX5U...John

Thanks John for taking the time to provided us valuable information on your experience in using the CX560 camera in support with your NX5U.

Like other, I am very happy to read you are finding these two cameras complement well each other.

As per your editing with Final Cut Pro (multicam). What type of computing environment (computing, hard drive) are you using? Did it lag in some places or did you find the video editing to be smooth?

Are you using ProRes LT ?

Regards!

So if you are on a shoot with your NX5U and you need a second camera...for around 1K the CX models can give you great results under certain conditions. Unless, of course, you can afford a to buy a second NX5U...or it's less expensive cousin just revealed at the NAB....I think 3K?


The expensive cousin is, I believe, the NX70 which is supposed to ship in July. B&H currently expects it to sell for $3200 ($US). See this link.

Sony HXR-NX70U NXCAM Compact Camcorder HXR-NX70U B&H Photo Video


This appears to be the Sony Broadcast Division's replacement for the now-venerable A1u. It seems to be based on the CX700 platform but in a slightly bigger package. It has functions on buttons (as opposed to menus alone), a usable lens-mounted control ring, XLR connections and manual audio functions, and the ability to shoot 1080/60p.. It also has an interesting ability to survive abuse --- postings from NAB have shown one of these in a fish-tank being showered by water. Even if it is not exactly Chris Adefaya's "NX5 killer," it seems to be economically attractive enough to give pause to anyone considering an AX2000. For those doing multi-cam shoots, an NX70 partnered with some CX560s or CX700s, looks very attractive. It will be $300 ($US) less than the current price of the AX2000 while also coming with a usable external shotgun mike and the progressive shooting modes. At $1500 less than an FMU equipped NX5, it may be very attractive to those who do not feel the need for the high-degree of manual adjustability and control available on the NX5. Makes one wonder what an NX6 will be.

While Sony also is currently selling the shoulder-mounted HXR-MC2000, that camera seems to be in a lesser league. The attraction is the "pro-appearing" shoulder-mount package with XLR connections. However, while one would have thought it based on the CX550, it turns out instead to be based on the less capable CX360. It has the ¼ inch sensor rather than 1/3 inch sensor (less low-light capability), a 12x zoom (trading off a minor increase in zoom range for the loss of the the significantly wider wide-end of the zoom on the CX550), and uses the smaller 2.7 inch view screen of the CX550.

Note that the MC2000 does not, in fact, have XLR connections. It's just like the HD1000 in that regard.

Sony always seems to give something and take back something !!! All my cameras are Sony by the way. Having just got the CX700 the comparison with what I know of the NX70 is interesting. The control button on the CX700 will select and control the following focus, exposure, iris, shutter speed, AE shift, White shift. On the NX70 we have a ring that only controls focus, zoom and iris with a button for one shot focus, iris ( presumable auto /manual), expanded focus ( which can be set to be automatic on the CX700 and histogram ( not on the CX700). To me lots of useful things have now gone from controls to the menu. I use AE shift a lot so that is something I would really miss. Expanded focus button is in line with the NX5U but I like the automode on the CX700 if I am going to use manual focus at all preferring spot focus, which is on the menu of course!!! At first I thought that I had got the CX700 too quickly and thought the NX70 would have been better . Other than the weather proofing I am now not sure I would switch from the CX700 that I could buy three of for the same price as the NX70 !!!

Ron Evans

Thanks John for taking the time to provided us valuable information on your experience in using the CX560 camera in support with your NX5U.

Like other, I am very happy to read you are finding these two cameras complement well each other.

As per your editing with Final Cut Pro (multicam). What type of computing environment (computing, hard drive) are you using? Did it lag in some places or did you find the video editing to be smooth?

Are you using ProRes LT ?

Regards!

Multicam editing in FCP 7.0.3 is done on a 3-4 year old Mac Pro with a La Cie D2 Quadra drive via FW800. For both cameras the ProRes 422 files are the standard ones and they are one the same La Cie drive together.

I also have a Matrox LE unit that helps provide CPU relief on video playback when Final Cut Pro is toggled to "Dynamic Resolution." The multicam edit will play all the way through including dissolves without stopping -- including one color correction filter each. Though if I start to pile on many more filters, etc., I will probably start to encounter some issues at some point.

But so far it's all been very good and seems to run quite smoothly...John

Note that the MC2000 does not, in fact, have XLR connections. It's just like the HD1000 in that regard.

Adam is correct. The camera is in even a lesser league.