Here's one more from Matthew Redmond and Scott Webster at Rocket Rentals in Auckland.

Download the following clip to your local hard drive and rename the .movx extension to .mov

www.hdvinfo.net/media/rocketnz/hd101bmxsample720p30codec.movx

This 37MB clip is a native 720p30 QuickTime .mov file which can only be played by those who have the codec on their system.

That looks so much better it's not even funny. The .m2v posted earlier was definitely recompressed.

I'm not so worried about this camera at all anymore, really. It looks at least as good at 720p as my FX-1 CF30 clips...and maybe better.

Something else I just noticed pulling this clip into FCP5...and something I'd also noted from HDV (from FX-1) clips played in Quicktime Player...

...that the gamma is different between the two. Pulling the BMX clip into FCP and playing back there, the gamma is much better and not washed out looking at all. In the canvas window, things look terrific.

Also, my dual 2ghz handles 720p MUCH better than 1080i (surprise surprise). Almost just like DV.

What codec do I need to see it, Im on PC?

Thx!

QuickTime 7, Public Preview version 2. Get it from Apple at www.apple.com

But don't install it on an editing machine, especially if you're using Premiere Pro.

I keep my internet computer completely separate from my editing computer -- so should you!

;-)

Chris, I installed QT 7.2 and after that After FX just hang...neither would the clip play anyways. Just un-installed it and got back to QT 6.5, now it seems to work fine again!

I wish I could have been a little bit more patient waiting for an answer. Strange though that the clip didnt play eventhough I had installed v7.2?!?!

I so really want and need to see this clip!

I'm getting poor performance when watching these clips. It's probably because my system is getting quite old. I can watch the HD-WMV's fine and they look great, but quicktimes and mpegs I only get about 2fps. Are most of you getting realtime playback on these clips? Am I going to have to finally get a new system if I want to transition to HDV? or am I doing something wrong? My system is:

Dual Athlon MP 2200
2 Gigs RAM

I don't know, perhaps this is best attempted with a Mac...

I have a PC w/QT7.2 but have not tried to download this clip.

Arent there any JVC m2t clips? I have no problems watching sonys raw clips in m2t format, they run great on my Athlon X2 4400 with 2gb ram!

What is the diffrence between m2t and m2v?

On a PC 7.02b20 just plays the audio...

Soroush,

I think the reason we're not seeing the .m2t files is because the people who are posting these clips are using Macs, and they've mentioned something about it needing to be "wrapped" into a quicktime file or something.

I believe an m2t is the raw data from the cam and an m2v has been recompressed.

Watching the QT file on PC is gonna be sketchy at best...QT for Windows has never been the speediest.

Soroush,

I think the reason we're not seeing the .m2t files is because the people who are posting these clips are using Macs, and they've mentioned something about it needing to be "wrapped" into a quicktime file or something.

I believe an m2t is the raw data from the cam and an m2v has been recompressed.

You would think QuickTime would handle this. I've used plenty of Mac DV Quicktimes before - why not HDV?

The clips I've provided are not much -- just some trade-show floor stuff from the WEVA exhibit. But I'm uploading them as native .m2t's, straight off the tape. No recompression, no alternate codec, they're exactly bit-for-bit what the camera recorded. 30p & 24p, motion smoothing on & off. But the camerawork and lighting and everything are quite dodgy -- it was tough to get time to do even a halfway decent job when you're hogging the camera and other people (and the booth reps) want you to just move out of the way! :)

So there's nothing professional about how they were shot, but at least you can see a few seconds of footage in the native mode, etc. Some of the clips I just extracted a still frame from -- like to compare black stretch +3 against black compress -3, so you can see the effect on dynamic range. Or to demonstrate the color palette -- the standard default palette is indeed very muted, but you can juice up the chroma level to highly saturated candy-apple colors. Those shots are saved as .png's, so they're mathematically lossless compression (i.e., no additional JPG artifacts).

Well these shots in their native format do look far better than the ones posted previously. There is no banding in these originals. And the footage does look very nice.

There is a noticable amount of "grain" in the shot which lends it a very different look than what I am used to. I'm using the word different here, because I haven't decided if I like it or not yet :)

At any rate, most people will have to take my word for it, because the HDV codec is only available to FCP5 users. So if you have a PC, or a mac without FCP5 you can't watch this, no matter which version of quicktime you have. I don't know why apple won't let you download it.

But I am much more relieved about the picture quality from this camera, now that I have seen the raw footage.

You would think QuickTime would handle this. I've used plenty of Mac DV Quicktimes before - why not HDV?

Once I deleted the X it got a QT icon and plays fine in the QT player.

The first played automatically in VLC.

It's interesting to me that the clips show a lot of motion blur (which I assumed was the Motion Filter). Look at the super wide tree trunks.

But, they also have a small amount of the typical (HD10) 30fps strobing.

Which raises the question of what shutter-speed was used? (It should have been 1/60th or 1/50th.) Was the MF enabled?

And why is the rider not in sharp focus over the whole run. Was the focus not right? Too little DOF? Too much motion blur?

Chris,

could you get me in to contact with the guys that did this clip? I mean I am having problems getting material on to my computer, quicktime 7 wont see it and FCP5 won't recognize it.

Hi David,

Are you re-naming the file? The file extension must be re-named in order to play properly... just remove the "x" from the file extension, as Steve notes above.

I pointed this out in the first post in this thread. I re-named the files to keep people from trying to play them directly from our server, which would bog things down for everybody else. Download the files to your local hard drive first, re-name the extension and it should work fine... if not, let me know!

Once I deleted the X it got a QT icon and plays fine in the QT player.

The first played automatically in VLC.

It's interesting to me that the clips show a lot of motion blur (which I assumed was the Motion Filter). Look at the super wide tree trunks.

But, they also have a small amount of the typical (HD10) 30fps strobing.

Which raises the question of what shutter-speed was used? (It should have been 1/60th or 1/50th.) Was the MF enabled?

And why is the rider not in sharp focus over the whole run. Was the focus not right? Too little DOF? Too much motion blur?

From memory the shutter speed was at 1/30th. Yes MF was enabled as this was the point of the shoot, to see the effect on fast moving objects with MF on.

Can't comment on focus, could of been me, I was on the shoulder at the time and I have struggled with the VF on the JVC. Iris was on auto for this clip.

The BMX footage is all observational, they weren't riding to direction!

If you are interested in more of the 'ms' function we do have some clips of a rugby league game. Believe me it all turns to custard when there are multiple fast moving objects in frame with ms on. So, yes finding the right shutter speed is going to be key in getting the best from the effect.

We are reluctant to post anymore clips due to the comments so far on the Quicktime, m2v and WMV transfers. These are not giving the camera a fair go. We can't pull m2t clips from FCP (unless someone can tell us how)

If you want a Rugby League clip let me know the best format to post in. it could be worthwhile as once you see it, you can pretty much forget about this camera for fast moving sports coverage.

I downloaded this, and then removed the 'x' on my non-editting machine with QT7 Public Preview 2 PC, and it refuses to play the video. Plays the audio just fine. When it tries to play the video, it wants to take me an Apple website with different codecs listed for download.

And I just tried VLC, and it refuses to play it at all....

From memory the shutter speed was at 1/30th.

The shutter-speed must be chosen by the CAMERA frame not the RECORDED frame rate. You were shooting at 60p (YES, the camera is shooting 60p not 30p), but recording at 30p. (I have no idea how you came up with 1/30 even if you thought the camera was shooting at 30fps.)

What we know:

Shutter-speed (for a 180-degree shutter) is the reciprocal of the frame-rate (expressed as a decimal number) divided by 2. (Yes, the decimal value is the reciprocal of the frame rate.)

For film: 1 divided by 24 is 0.0417 divided by 2 is 0.0208 by which you divide 1 yielding 48 (th of a second) which is the correct shutter-speed.

So for 48p -- shutter-speed should be 96th of a second -- 1/100.

So for 60p -- shutter-speed should be 120th of a second -- 1/120.

HOWEVER: JVC likely exposes the CCD for the full time of each frame. Now the math changes slightly.

If you used film at 270 degrees, the shutter speed should be 1/32 second. So, if a film camera could have a 360 degree shutter-speed -- it would use a 1/24th second.

So our equation changes to:

Shutter-speed (for a 360-degree shutter) is the reciprocal of the frame-rate (expressed as a decimal number).

For film 1 divided by 24 is 0.0417 by which you divide 1 yielding 24 (th of a second) which is the shutter-speed.

So for 48p -- shutter-speed should 48th of a second -- 1/48.

So for 60p -- shutter-speed should 60th of a second -- 1/60.

Thus if you used 1/30 -- your clips have no value if the MF was also engaged. And, it certainly indicates why everything turns to fudge.

I don't mean to be too harsh, but if folks are going to publish "reviews" and/or clips they have some responsibility to understand the technology they are using. This looks to be a repeat of what happened with the first JVC.

There are dozens and dozens of published stories and posts that explain progressive and how the HD100 works. This information is available at this site (try SEARCH), try GOOGLE, several other sites (incuding http://www.gyhduser.com), in Video Systems magazine (you can get for free), and the HDV@Work newsletter (from VS) which is also free.

In short, there is no cost to using the many resources available to everyone. I'd hate to think we'll go though the H1/HD10 experience again just because "newbies" simply won't take advantage of all the work done by HDV folks over the last 2-3 years. Most of it posted here!

TIP: when shooting for posting, speak into the camera at the head of the clip what your settings are so we can hear what we are watching.

how can we play this file?

What's your computer set-up, Jim?

Every time I try to d/l one of these clips linked in this thread all I get is a page of garbage. I'm using a Mac G5, dual 2.7 gig processors, QT7, and at home a Mac mini, 1.25 gig processor, QT7. Any suggestions?

You are "control-clicking" on the link, right Bill?

Tim

I've watched this on my Cinema display 23 inch, and while it is nice3 looking, I can't say it is any better or worse than the footage off my FX1/Z1U.

Am I missing something, should I see something more?

I'm not trying to start any sort of flame here, but it's looking alike a nice HDV image.

Comments?

DBK

Every time I try to d/l one of these clips linked in this thread all I get is a page of garbage. I'm using a Mac G5, dual 2.7 gig processors, QT7, and at home a Mac mini, 1.25 gig processor, QT7. Any suggestions?

Bill,

With Safari, right click (or command-click) and choose 'download linked file.' Note they have added the letter x to the file extension to prevent folks from streaming it as opposed to downloading it. When the download is complete, remove anything after the .mov extension and confirm your intentions in the pop up dialog box. The file will then play as a regular QT file. Why do folks do this? Because if you stream the file, it will re-stream it everytime you come back and click on the link. This eats up bandwidth and total transfer limits for the person hosting the file and they could quickly get nailed for some nasty over usage charges from their host provider.

regards,

-gb-

This particular clip has now been withdrawn, but we'll have others available soon. Many thanks to Scott Webster and Matthew Redmond for sharing this video.