i have never really thought about how much i am worth per hour and was wondering if you could help.
I edit, shoot, produce, know after effects well, but not amazing. Edit pretty good, and know photoshop really well.

what is the low end price for a freelance editor/videographer
and whats a high-end price for the same.

if you want to see my work
BizComm Media - Professional HD Video Production Cincinnati Ohio (http://www.bizcommmedia.com)
Dave Morgan - Video Director, Editor, Producer, Photography (http://www.morganvisual.com)


thanks.

Not to be intentionally vague or anything, but the TRUTH is, you are worth whatever you can
get someone to pay you. I was a 'staff' videographer/editor for 8 years. I was 'worth' somewhere
between $10-$15 an hour. I thought I was worth more, especially when some of my footage made
my company $100 a second (they sold it as stock footage to Nat Geo). My company did not
agree with me and basically refused to give me a raise......that position was worth a set amount
to them, and they figured they would have no problem filling the position if I left as there are enough
people who would want the job. As long as I accepted that, I was 'worth' what they paid me.

When I finally got tired of it and started my own company, I got to set my own 'worth', by what I
charge my clients per hour. I have some clients that pay my rate with no complaints, some who
pay it but complain about price, and others who call and say 'no thanks we didn't think
it would cost that much'. Just last week, I lost one job because I bid $1500 to produce a pretty
simple 10-15 minute talking head video. Earlier this summer I bid on a job producing 2 camera
HD footage of an event, along with a still photographer documenting the event and an audio guy
for sound. After I paid all my crew, I cleared almost 3 grand for the day. So one day I was
'worth' nothing as I didn't get the job and had no work.....another day I was 'worth' 3 grand.
It's actually a crazy balancing act full of highs and lows when you do it as a 'freelance' guy or
'one man company' type thing. You have days where you wonder if you should have bid just
a liiiiitle bit lower. Best you can do, is figure out your expenses and what you need to break even,
add your 'salary' that you want to make (taking into account that you have to pay for your own
healthcare, retirement and such) and then bid the jobs that come up and try not to agonize over
the ones you lose. The reality is, some days you will 'lose', others you will win....but at least YOU
get to set the 'starting point' at which you would like to be paid. If no one (potential clients) agrees
with you, you may have to lower that starting point.....and if enough of them agree that you
ARE worth that much, you may become 'overbooked' and RAISE your rates to cut back on the work
a little.

Dave - you ask what you're worth but don't say where you are. The people who are worth the most are those that are prepared to get off their backsides at a moment's notice, and travel. You're worth nothing to me unless you can be at my door ready to shoot.

tom.

...If no one (potential clients) agrees
with you, you may have to lower that starting point.....and if enough of them agree that you
ARE worth that much, you may become 'overbooked' and RAISE your rates to cut back on the work
a little.

And it's not unheard of to raise one's rates and find one's bookings INCREASE because the perceived value of the quality of work being done is now higher.

Many talented videographers have closed their doors and gone out of business.
Not for lack of talent or ability, but because they hadn't a clue how to run a business!
Rather than ask a stranger on a forum how much money you should make an hour, sit down and figure it out for yourself. Here is a start... What are your monthly expenses?

All the Best!

Dave

And it's not unheard of to raise one's rates and find one's bookings INCREASE because the perceived value of the quality of work being done is now higher.

That is actually a very good point. When I raised my rates, I was told by one client that I was hired
because anyone that would charge less than me 'wasn't taking the project seriously'. I was glad
that I had just raised my rates as it was a pretty big project with a decent budget!!

Based on Craigslist we're worth credit, maybe food, good karma and you get to network with other people who are also working for free so they can't hire you either.

If you walked past someone on the street corner selling Rolex watches for $5, you'd be suspicious too. Walk into a nice store selling the same watch for $500 and you'd probably be less suspicious. Undercharging is ALWAYS a business fail.

Assuming you're worth keeping alive and in business at the very least you should look at all your monthly living expenses as well as business expenses including the cost of gear averages over its life and figure you need to meet those expenses working about 20-25 paid hours a week. This is because you're going to have to do a lot of non billable work to run your business as well.

As your skills and gear improve, you can raise your rates but your base rate must ensure that you can live, pay off your gear, have enough money to update nearly all your gear every couple of years.

I think that you should break it up to figure out how much you should charge to make a business. On one hand you have how much does it cost, on the other, how much is it worth. The first is how much it cost you to produce the product, including your own salary, the other is how much the client is willing to pay, how much the product is worth to the client. If worth is less than cost then you don't have a business.

Figure out the cost and you have a lower bound:

There are direct expenses, material, transport, catering, equipment rental etc. Then equipment you own and not only camera but everything you use to produce the final product, must be written off over time, it's like renting from yourself, a proportional amount should be charged. Add to that your salary for the time you need to complete the project.

Indirect expenses are difficult to estimate, these are the costs of marketing and publicity, the time you need to prepare and present and offer to close the deal. Resources lost on deals you didn't close, not to mention idle time and the cost of your equipment gaining dust while loosing value.

It's easy to just keep whatever is left over when direct expenses are paid, but I think it is a good idea to assign yourself a salary by the hour and figure out where your expenses are.

The profit stays with the business once you've been paid and all expenses are paid. The profit is also the margin where you can choose to negotiate to close the deal.

BR

I used to have a pool of freelance cameraman and the average rate in Toronto is $ 20-35/hour. The company I work for then charges client $ 55/hour. So you can either be the freelance guy working $ 25/hour or the guy corporate clients hire directly and charge $ 55/hour.

For weddings I charge $ 500 for a 12 hour shoot.

Only $ 500 for a 12-hour shoot?? Is that just for taping or do you include the full package of editing, DVDs, etc.?

I suppose that $500 for 12 hours is for whatever you can get done in 12 hours. Doesn't seem to leave much time for post.

$ 500 for the shoot, no editing involved. That is the going rate in Toronto, I expect to pay the same if I double book

Everyone's advice is great but geared more for running your own business rather than freelancing.

For freelance, there are typically 2 customers: the client or the post house hired by the client.

Many freelancers I know (mostly AE artists) started at a post house or vfx facility and built their network before going out on their own. Potential clients must know who you are if you want to be hired otherwise you will be working for very little money because no one knows who you are.

For freelance editors, it is a MUST that you know FCP and a great benefit if you know Avid as 99% of post houses use only these 2 systems.

A ballpark figure is $25-75.

String - piece - how long?

This morning I got some work in the mail, two hours later, I'd finished. This afternoon, I spent 4 hours on a different project and haven't completed it yet. One works out to $165 an hour, the other by the time it's done, maybe $15, if I'm lucky.

Steve K. the key difference between freelance and running your own business is who's equipment. If you freelance "someplace else" then you're not footing the bill for the purchase and maintenance of the gear. You still need to factor in your leaving expenses and estimate on a 20-25 hour work week (given the ups and downs of freelance).

Paul R. J. You have a serious problem with your rate structure if what you say is true. $15/hr wouldn't even cover the cost of the gear expenses for me (so we're not talking about cost of living here).

Everyone's advice is great but geared more for running your own business rather than freelancing.

...

Freelancers ARE running their own business - they have no employees, true, and probably no storefronts but they are businesses all the same and the people that hire them are their customers. Pricing your bids or setting a rate that your client must offer in order for you to acept their gig as a freelancer is no different a process than pricing your product as any other small business would do.

Running your own business with GEAR as almost everyone stated is completely different from freelancing because there is very LITTLE overhead; thus, most people's 'bottom line' price would be very very low.

Furthermore, there is much more risk AND reward for running your own business versus freelancing. I can make $3k profit from a quick to shoot (1 day for shoot & edit) 30s TVC but it would take an entire week of freelancing to make that. Freelancing has a set price per hour range unless you are among the best.

Running your own business with GEAR as almost everyone stated is completely different from freelancing because there is very LITTLE overhead; thus, most people's 'bottom line' price would be very very low.

Furthermore, there is much more risk AND reward for running your own business versus freelancing. I can make $3k profit from a quick to shoot (1 day for shoot & edit) 30s TVC but it would take an entire week of freelancing to make that. Freelancing has a set price per hour range unless you are among the best.

Depends on how your price is determined, Do you passively let the client determine what they will pay you or do you tell the client how much they'll need to pay to secure your services? I do the latter, based on my perceptions of a) the current prevailing market situation; and b) my perception of my value viz a viz other competitors for the work.

You have a serious problem with your rate structure if what you say is true. $15/hr wouldn't even cover the cost of the gear expenses for me (so we're not talking about cost of living here
It's not so much a problem with the rate structure, more just the way some jobs are priced.

I work for myself, but work across many areas - similar activities, but they pay very differently - some jobs that will be longer term are at the UK union rate or above - but this doesn't mean good. In fact, the trend is for fees to stay the same year to year, yet the complexity of the work increases and it takes longer to do the same things. We have a minimum wage here in Europe, which is roughly $10 an hour - six UK pounds. The trouble is that many employers simply offer this rate, and people work for it. I don't. I don't even price jobs by the hour. The snags come when simple jobs expand, and take up more time than budgeted and as a result, if you do calculate back to hourly you get depressed.

A good example is a project I'm currently working on. Installing motorised trusses for lighting in a studio. Plans drawn, components sourced and priced, ready for the actual quote - if the price is too expensive, then the client may just walk away, and we make nothing at all, and our time and effort was free - or maybe the client likes it (as in this one) but wants changes. So this morning, I re-draw the plans and start again. This is just how our business works - it evens out.

Our crewing jobs now get priced for short, medium or long days, and we just hope the medium ones extend into long ones!

Running your own business with GEAR as almost everyone stated is completely different from freelancing because there is very LITTLE overhead; thus, most people's 'bottom line' price would be very very low.

Furthermore, there is much more risk AND reward for running your own business versus freelancing. I can make $3k profit from a quick to shoot (1 day for shoot & edit) 30s TVC but it would take an entire week of freelancing to make that. Freelancing has a set price per hour range unless you are among the best.

Sounds like maybe a definition of "freelancing" is in order. I worked for many years as a freelancer, but I had about $80,000 of my own gear. To me, freelancing just means you don't have one steady job or client, but everyday you may be working for someone else, maybe doing a different job function for each one. So I "freelanced" as a sound guy, but I had all my own sound gear. I also freelanced as a camera guy, with my own camera equipment, did freelance editing, etc. So I had plenty of overhead, even though I did not have a storefront shop. So as someone else said earlier, freelancers ARE running their own business and definitely need to figure in any overhead costs they have into their rates. This includes their office set ups, insurance, expected costs of repairs, advertising, accounting, etc. in addition to the cost of the gear they would bring along on the job.

Btw, even if someone is working as a freelancer who does not own any gear, they still have a bunch of overhead costs of running their business that should be figured into their rates as well.

Have fun!

Rob

Btw, even if someone is working as a freelancer who does not own any gear, they still have a bunch of overhead costs of running their business that should be figured into their rates as well.

Such as mortgage/rent, food, insurance, utilities, transportation, taxes, licensing...

Now I'm mildly depressed.

Running your own business with GEAR as almost everyone stated is completely different from freelancing because there is very LITTLE overhead; thus, most people's 'bottom line' price would be very very low.

Furthermore, there is much more risk AND reward for running your own business versus freelancing. I can make $3k profit from a quick to shoot (1 day for shoot & edit) 30s TVC but it would take an entire week of freelancing to make that. Freelancing has a set price per hour range unless you are among the best.

There are PLENTY of freelancers who own their own gear, look in any big market and there are
plenty of freelance cameramen that own a camera package.....sound guys that own their
sound package.....editors that own their edit bay and so on. I am not sure what the
correct definition of 'freelancer' is, but I just see it as a general term meaning you are NOT
'staff' and get jobs on a case by case basis. I do a variety of work, sometimes I produce a
video from 'concept to completion' and write the script, shoot the video, make the motion
graphics, edit the video, score the video and so on. Other times, I am hired by a TV station or
other production company just to shoot an event or something similar. Still other times, I am hired
to edit some pre shot footage into a program. I still consider myself a freelancer, even though I own
my own gear......just as I also consider myself a 'small business owner'. I actually think
that a 'freelancer' IS a 'small business owner', and sometimes they DO own their own gear.
And there is no 'set price per hour range' as far as I know....at least it is not set by the client!
I set my price, and they can either pay it or not. Sometimes they pay it, other times they do not,
but they don't get to tell me that there is some sort of 'set fee' for 'my type' of work. I set my
prices myself.

People,

THIS thread is about someone asking about being a freelance editor, which does NOT include a bunch of gear.

Can we stay on topic?

About mortgage and transportation costs: If person A owns a $500,000 house and a $60,000 car, should that person automatically be able to charge more than someone owning a $200,000 house and $30,000 car - NO. However, if Person A has a studio in his house for business (which is why it costs so much), that is a different story.

People,

THIS thread is about someone asking about being a freelance editor, which does NOT include a bunch of gear.

Can we stay on topic?

About mortgage and transportation costs: If person A owns a $500,000 house and a $60,000 car, should that person automatically be able to charge more than someone owning a $200,000 house and $30,000 car - NO. However, if Person A has a studio in his house for business (which is why it costs so much), that is a different story.

Ummm......look again. This thread is about someone asking about being a freelance
editor/videographer (yes he mentioned videographer in the initial post.) He does NOT
specify that it does not include a bunch of gear. I think we are totally on topic here.
A freelance editor/videographer many times DOES own a 'bunch of gear.'......as in my case.
Furthermore, he states that he 'edits, shoots, produces and knows After Effects ok but not
great' which leads me to believe that he is looking at doing much more than your contention that
he is 'just editing'. Hence my posts.

Ummm......look again. This thread is about someone asking about being a freelance
editor/videographer (yes he mentioned videographer in the initial post.) He does NOT
specify that it does not include a bunch of gear. I think we are totally on topic here.
A freelance editor/videographer many times DOES own a 'bunch of gear.'......as in my case.
Furthermore, he states that he 'edits, shoots, produces and knows After Effects ok but not
great' which leads me to believe that he is looking at doing much more than your contention that
he is 'just editing'. Hence my posts.

Ummm....dummy me. Sorry about that.

Na, not dumb, it's easy to overlook things in posts, I've done it hundreds of times myself.
I think one thing is true, a person who is hired as a freelancer who OWNS gear, will and
should charge more than someone who is going to use 'company gear'. Of course there is
another type of freelancer who rents, and thus the rental costs have to be built in, and may cost
more than the freelancer who owns gear.

However, as a freelancer, YOU can set your own rates. You may have to modify those rates if
you are not getting enough work, but you are the one who decides what you will charge. It is wise
to do some market research and try and find out what others charge, and so on, but
ultimately it is up to you......and you really need to know your market to do this well.

When I do small jobs which could be classified as 'freelance', I include the cost of my time and what it would cost to rent my gear such as $325/day for an EX3 kit. When I need an extra cameraman for a multi-cam shoot, I charge the cost of rental as a line item and the labor cost usually $400-500 for a full shoot; so, I can make a small profit from the labor. For example, we know an ABC cameraman so I pay him $400/day and bill $500. I have no problem paying good money to an experienced cameraman because I know the results will be good. However, for other less experienced operators, I usually limit what I'll pay to $250-300 and bill $400. This is for labor only as we provide the camera gear.

As a favor, I have charged only $250 for my time to shoot a quick 30 min event or 5min talking head. The delivery was just youtube and no editing was required.

I have one issue with charging whatever you 'want'. You really need to research your local market and what the rates are. For example, people working in Chicago for Chicago clients can charge a bit more whereas working an hour outside of Chicago has a lower 'market' rate. Essentially, charge as much as the market will bear. This is why Hollywood uses Canada for so many productions.

EDIT: Just read the rest of your post, Gabe, and you said exactly what I just said.

PS My foot is wedged pretty good in my mouth ;)

Still holding on to the basic idea that my business is built upon...

NEVER SELL TIME.

Every single second of every single day your INVENTORY is disappearing and you have NO option of a way to control the loss, let alone figure out a way to get it back.

Sell expertise. Never time. Period.



My 2 cents.

Every single second of every single day your INVENTORY is disappearing...

That's what makes it valuable. The less time you have and the more time that has been "disappeared", the more valuable it is. It's rare.

I'm very interested in your idea though. Anywhere I can read more?

Thanks.

Bill, I agree. Expertise is the best way to market and sell you services in order to be properly compensated. The problem I see is that this is also the most difficult approach for many clients.

I try to sell myself on quality and expertise but find many people just can not get off of shopping by price alone. Many times it seems one is competing with the very person asking for a quote as them doing it themsleves is on the table. Makes me shake my head when people want to sell premium goods & services for a premium price but are o.k. with putting it in a homemade YouTube wrapper!

I hate this end of the business. Clients seem so erratic at times that I never feel like I am running with the best numbers.

Beautifully put Tim, and I'm betting lots of us here feel the very same way. All I can sell is my expertise. All I can say is this is what I do, this is what I love doing, this is what I'd do even if I didn't have to. Because of this I don't have a demo DVD. I ask the prospective clients to tell me the month of their wedding day and I'll send them a complete tom-film shot in the same month last year. That way they can judge, in their own time, as often as they like, and put me face to face with all my competitors.

tom.