Hi there,

I'm about to replace my ageing Canon XL1 and I'm trying to decide between the JVC HM700e or Sony S270e, any thoughts?

I do mainly ENG for newspaper websites, a bit of corporate and the occasional wedding. I edit on Final Cut Pro.

I prefer shoulder mount, and I like thew HM700e, but wondered if it's worth spending the extra £1600 on the Sony.

I like the idea of the HM700e straight to FCP, but what benefits will I get with the S270e?

Cheers
Lenny

For that much money, have you looked at the EX3 or even an EX1 plus shoulder mount?

Lenny,
The 700 with a 17X lens is the cats meow. Natively you can record to QT or MP4, no tape backup like the S270 which is HDV. IMO for news work no big deal. The 700 has 2 XLRs and the 270 has 4 channel audio not necessairly important in newswork. Either will work off of AB batteries although the 270 has a V lok plate standard while the 700 has the AB plate standard. IIRC the VF of the 270 is a bit larger but the LCDs of both are really nice. Weight of course is a bit different with the 700 being less. If it were me while I like the 270 (I've been a Sony guy for a looooong time) I would go with the 700. Lighter, 2 different codecs available without using add on's, 3 if you use the SxS card attachment, 4 if you count the MxR insert for that. Just seems like a better deal all round.

YMMV

For that much money, have you looked at the EX3 or even an EX1 plus shoulder mount?

Hi Steve, I have. I just prefer a shoulder mount for the work I do. I'm not wanting to start adding bits and bobs to make it sit or balance on my shoulder.

I know the HM700e quality isn't as good as the EX3, but how does it compare to the S270? I suppose it's CCD versus CMOS...

Lenny,
The 700 with a 17X lens is the cats meow. Natively you can record to QT or MP4, no tape backup like the S270 which is HDV. IMO for news work no big deal. The 700 has 2 XLRs and the 270 has 4 channel audio not necessairly important in newswork. Either will work off of AB batteries although the 270 has a V lok plate standard while the 700 has the AB plate standard. IIRC the VF of the 270 is a bit larger but the LCDs of both are really nice. Weight of course is a bit different with the 700 being less. If it were me while I like the 270 (I've been a Sony guy for a looooong time) I would go with the 700. Lighter, 2 different codecs available without using add on's, 3 if you use the SxS card attachment, 4 if you count the MxR insert for that. Just seems like a better deal all round.

YMMV

Hi Don,

Thanks for that. How does the actual quality compare between them? I suppose the S270e will be better in low light, although the HM700e won't suffer from rolling shutter issues. CMOS versus CCD I suppose. They are both 1/3 inch chips so are they both as good as each other?

I like the size of the S270e as it will take Portabrace armour, does the build quality seem similar? I'm not too worried about different codecs, on one hand the HM700e has twin SDHC cards which is handy, but the S270e has tape and CF card....

The problem is I can't try these cameras out locally, and I can stretch to the S270e, just wondering if it's worth it. If the picture quality or build quality is better then I would go for it as I want to make the right decision and not wish I'd bought something else....

It's a minefield.... :-@

Cheers

Lenny

I've been advised that the S270e codec isn't as good as the HM700e, that sound about right?

I personally haven't used the 270 but if it's built like the other DSR models I've owned and used over the years then it's built like a tank. There is Portabrace for the 700 as well and while I like the feel and look of the bigger camera the smaller cam (700) really speaks to me.I like the lighter weigh and smaller footprint, except for the fact it's only got 2 XLRS but again for newswork that shouldn't be a problem.
I'm sure either would be just fine for what you do but I have heard that the 270 gets hit up a bit with the CMOS rolling shutter challenge when in a scrum of photogs all flashing away to get their shot.
AS for lowlight, does that really matter in the news business? It never did to me when I was shooting it. Hell we just turned on another sungun. lol!

If it were me, I'd go for the 700 but that's just me.

Thanks Don, appreciated.

I've decided to go with the HM700e, just need to spec batteries, probably the IDX and also a tripod plate.

:-)

Lenny

Good for you Lenny. It's always hard to make the choice. As for batteries the 700 comes with the Anton Bauer plate so you need to get the V-lok plate to mount to it. A friend of mine has a 100 with IDX and when he got his 700 he didn't want to change battery brands so he got the V lok plate to use his IDX. I don't remmebr if the V lok plate mounts over the AB plate or if you have to remove the AB plate. In any case it's an easy switch. Once again I think you'll love the 700. BTW which lens are you going to get? The 14 or the 17. My suggestion is the 17 but that just me. Good luck and enjoy.

I thought the HM700E (as opposed to the HM700U) came with the V plate attachment rather than the AB?

Hi guys,

I've been advised to get the IDX rather than the A-B. I heard in the UK, the 700 comes with V-Lock plate.

I'm going for the Canon x14 as I heard the Fujinon suffers from CA?

I'm mainly a stills guy, and I got made redundant from the national newspaper I worked at before Christmas. I'm now freelancing so the video side is to supplement my other work. I worked in a video unit before, making medical training films. I started in Low Band u-Matic, then MII.

It's a steep learning curve, but I'm enjoying it. I made a few films on my Canon XL1 over the years as well.

--
Lenny Warren / Warren Media
lenny@warrenmedia.co.uk
Warren Media (http://www.WarrenMedia.co.uk)

Hi guys,

I've been advised to get the IDX rather than the A-B. I heard in the UK, the 700 comes with V-Lock plate.

I'm going for the Canon x14 as I heard the Fujinon suffers from CA?

Lenny -- as far as I know the "E" (Euro) version of the HM700 comes with the V-lock back as standard (the "U" -- USA version has the Anton Bauer back), so you're probably OK for the IDE batteries as-is.

I have the Canon 14x lens on my HM700, and while it's pretty good, it definitely has CA as well. From memory, the Fuji 17x has the least CA of the lot (the 18x was apparently pretty poor, but I may be mixing up the two). I don't find the 14x's issues to be worth worrying about in most cases, but that may just reflect the sort of stuff I do...

Yeah my bad. I forgot about the E. It is my understanding the European model does have the V-lok plate. I've used both the 14 and 17 on an HD250 and it's my opinion that the 17 is overall a better piece of glass. Not that the 14 is bad or loaded with CA or anything else, I just feel the 17 is a bit sharper. No real CA that I've noticed. Either will do the job quite well.
I've got to remember the US version is slighty different. :-()

Yes, think that's right, European spec has V-Lock as standard.

The originally specced x16 Fujinon was poor from reviews I've read, and the x14 Canon was meant to be much better. I'll check my supplier and see the price of the x17 Fujinon.

I'm thinking I'll not bother with the SxS adaptor, it adds a fair bit of money and I'm happy with SDHC and straight into FCP, or am I missing something?

I've got an 'E' spec and it definitely has a V-Lock plate. I bought the SXS back but I've never used it. I put it on once but it throws the whole camera out of balance so I took it off and it's been in a drawer ever since. I bought it because I was nervous about shooting to SD cards, but I've passed that stage now. I've been using it for a year without any problem.

I bought it with the16x Fujinon, what is supposed to be the problem with that lens? I know that just after I bought mine they started to sell with the Canon 14x.

I read reviews that said the x16 Fujinon suffered from Chromatic Aberration, although I'm sure it was a pre production camera so that could have affected it.

I'm waiting to hear about leasing, so fingers crossed. :-)

Here's another thought, does the V-Lock mount have a D-tap connector to plug in a PAG light? I've specced it with IDX battery, but the PAG says it has a D-Tap adapter for powering the light?

the E model might be different but my friend with the 700 (here in the US with the AB mount) changed it to a Vlok mount since he had the IDX batteries anyway and it does have the power tap. However maybe check it out on the IDX site or another camera store site just to make sure but I'm pretty sure that it would be there for you.

It definitely has a D-Tap socket Max 50w, at least mine does, I'm looking at it right now.

As for CA on the 16x Fujinon, I've never seen it on any footage I've edited. It may be something that can be seen on scopes, but I edit by eye so it's not been a problem I've been aware of.

You did well to chose the 700 over the S270, I had a 270 and found it a bit plasticky and the HDV codec is not very good now.

Like all 1/3" chip camera's keep the aperture as wide open as possible to cut down the CA, I ended up going for the panasonic HPX301 and the 17x lens that it has is better than the TH16x.

Hi Gary.
I've read many of your posts so I know you are a knowledgeable guy so could you expand a little on why the x17 is better than the x16 apart from the obvious longer throw.

I ask because I have seen a lot of comment about the x16 Fujinon, the original lens supplied with the HM700 I bought, and most of it was negative yet I've never really heard why, just that the ones supplied now are better. A while ago I did do a side by side comparison with a x14 Canon, the one that is now supplied as standard, and to be honest I couldn't see any difference in the quality of the image. Admittedly it was only a 'by eye' comparison.

Is it sharper, brighter, smoother, or is it a subjective thing? Is there something I could look out for in my recorded footage that will show me where it is letting me down?

As someone still using a GY HD100 and upgraded the lens from the 16x last year to the Fujinion 17x last year. The 16x is not rubbish and is OK when not wide open and its a free starter with the camera so fair enuff.

However having the 17x I can say its a different grade of lens, better contrast and sharpness, and more saturated colour and noticabely less flarey into the light. Less CA, but unlike the 100 series cameras those that came after have compensation for the vertical magenta-to-green tint that occurs when wide open or near wide open. It's still there on the 17x just about but far less - and only when wide open.

Its quite a bit heavier too.

I would also say that viewed directly on a monitor the 17x looks more obviously HD (compared with the SD output) than the 16x output so the resolution or fine detail contrast must be improved too.

I may get a 700 body to put the 17x on later this year and use the 100 with 16x as a backup / B-cam.

Thanks for that Les.

Is this the lens you upgrade to - Fujinon TH17X5BRM-D29 1/3" ?

Did you trade your x16?
What was the cost of changing?

My box says TH17x5BRM-29. I think there are variations with different control options. The lens was a one-off "used only once" deal, someone bought it for a full manual lens with a Sony S270 and traded both back ultimately deciding to match his exisiting Panasonic P2 rather than have mixed systems.

It was like new, better than a demonstrator. At the time - last summer I saw the 17x listed at anywhere between £1300-£1700, I got it for £1100-ish, just before the end of my accounting year so pretty happy.

I see the 17x currently listing at £1499 +VAT so unless you really hate the 16x I would stick with it until the camera pays for a new one. For me it was a case of: do I want a new camera? - maybe..well actually I still like the looks from this one, but maybe I can make it better.

I kept the 16x I don't believe it would really have any second-hand value as all the 1st and 2nd Generation JVC's came with one - I think its notional list price was about 700.

If I do get a HM700 body later then 16x can go back on the HD100. Or if I change systems then I would resell the 17x, Basically it gives me sufficient improvement to stick with the system for another year or so while things are developing so fast.

Thanks Les, very helpful.

Well, I've got my 700 now and I thik it's an amazing bit of kit.

It's not a huge difference in size to my Canon XL1 with MA-200 attached. I'm desperate to use it in anger.

Just a quick question, sorry if I'm sounding dumb, but what frame rate should I use it in? It came as 50i, but is there a quick rundown of what to use when? Forgive me if this info is elsewhere...

I'm on 1920x1080, so I can choose 24p, 25p, 50i, 30p, 60i.

I'm presuming I'm better on progressive?

24 for film look, but what about ENG? My end usage will be web and sometimes DVD.

Well, I've got my 700 now and I thik it's an amazing bit of kit.

It's not a huge difference in size to my Canon XL1 with MA-200 attached. I'm desperate to use it in anger.

Just a quick question, sorry if I'm sounding dumb, but what frame rate should I use it in? It came as 50i, but is there a quick rundown of what to use when? Forgive me if this info is elsewhere...

I'm on 1920x1080, so I can choose 24p, 25p, 50i, 30p, 60i.

I'm presuming I'm better on progressive?

24 for film look, but what about ENG? My end usage will be web and sometimes DVD.

Web and DVD is best shot 1920x1080i at 25p then down convert within your software to suit or keep it at 1080i 25p for web, don't bother with 24p at all as you are not doing cinema prints or international sales.

Sorry I double posted, my connection seemed to go down, not sure if it was website or my connection...

so for dvd and web, am I ok at 50i, what benefit would I get at 25p??

If you ever cover sport I'd suggest using 720p50 with your 700. It's what I use, and it makes watching football (soccer) so much nicer, plus you get smooth half-rate slo-mo for the goals as that is still 25 fps :-)

Have Fun,
Jim.

Cheers :-)