The way I chose to set up my packages is for full coverage of the ceremony and 2 hours at the reception with of course the option to pay for additional hours. All of the weddings I've done this at has worked out well, except the last one. What I tell the b & g is that the time starts when they enter the reception. Usually the b & g do pics after the ceremony which gives me a chance to get to the reception and video the hall. However, the last wedding I did it took over 2 hours for pics before the b & g showed up to the reception. So for 2 hours we stood and waited and then when they finally showed up I still had 2 more hours to go. So I'm looking for a different way to set things up and was wondering how others dealt with this situation.

Just a side note, I do NOT want to change from a time frame to "I'll cover the formalities" because I've been to weddings where they make the formalities span over a 4 hour period.....

We start our "time limit" from the beginning of the wedding ceremony. We, naturally, get there earlier to get the pre-shots and set everything up but time actually starts at the beginning of the ceremony. If they want to have a 4 hour gap between the two, no problems but all four hours count against their time.

I would add that a more fair option would be to charge for a 'non-activity' period which would cover time between ceremony and reception.

This 'non-activity' rate could be slightly less than your normal hourly rate but I am always wary of the 'charge for every minute' scenario which would scare people off especially if they know they are going to have a longish dead period between ceremony and reception.

Remember that sadly the videographer mostly 'gets the hinds end' of the budget - a perception I am REALLY working hard on to change!

Cheers

I can see the splitting of hairs really come into play in terms of when you're "on the clock" and when you're not. Ideally the bride and groom should outline for you when they want you to record. I'd lay out all of the reasons why the more expensive package may be better because then your camera is rolling a lot longer and you're getting a lot more footage.

If they can only afford "x amount of footage" then explain to them that it is your experience that we should be hitting the highlight points like: prep, ceremony, reception: dancing, cake... I realize the latter two items are difficult to determine because of photographers, long reception lines, etc... and schedules are so difficult to keep up with.

But you may get an idea of some of the timings if you talk work with the caterer or the wedding planner - so as to give you an idea of when they plan on eating.. Most brides and grooms know that they shouldn't be keeping their guest's food waiting -- (assuming that the b&g wait to eat at the reception) (especially if they pay a lot for their food!)

Good luck!
-Michael

the easiest and no brainer way of doign it is "thusly" god i hate that word...

shoot whatever preceremony stuff you need and give yourself half an hour BEFORE the bride leaves.. if the cars arent there by then, tough... therell be plenty of chances to get the cars in later anyway...

okies, so youve shot ur preps, and the brides gonna leave in half an hour.. so you leave NOW.. this gives you half and hour to set up and get ur preshots prior to anyone showing up..

okies, do ur thing at the ceremony, but advise the couple that any family shots WONT be filmed.. i mean who really wants to see a bunch of people standing around taking photos in a line up? Yeah u can get some nice candid stuff, but you can utilise this tium eto pack form teh ceremony and preapre for the photoshoot (theres usually 2.. the family shots, and then the formal bridal party BG shots.. THESE second ones ar ethe ones u want.. )

Now from here, just follow them.. compose ur shots on the fly, but get afew key shots which make your videos different from the norm.. its always good to have a specific shot which you can call your own..

anywyas, from here, find out what time theyre leaving for the reception, then leave half an hour before that. This gives u time to set up at the reception.

Now if ur package requires a set time limit, i actually tell the client to write down what time they want us to start shooting, and if they go overtime, tough.. they could easily have upgraded he package to include the full receptopn, but some people dont..
Dont fall into the trap of "we leave after the cake and first dance" what if theyre first dance is at 10pm?? and youve been there since 5 or 6...? Brides are prolly the most scrupulous people your ever gonna deal with, so even though your servicing them, dont forget, that its also a business transaction for them, and they WILL milk you for what your worth..
I tell them that if they go for our 3hour reception coverage, the time will start at the time the reception is stated on their invitation.
This is a fair call and they never argue that point. Basically they understand that we start when the reception starts, even if the couple isnt there yet..
Usually were shooting for about half an hour prior to any announcments so its a good time to get interviews.

I try to kep my packages basic. Too much info on the coverage side of things can get confusing for me and the client, especially if ive just shot 3 weddings over the same weekend (fri, sat, sun)
its always best to arrange with the couple what is coverd and what isnt, the way i see it, if im there to shoot the event, ill shoot whatever is worth keeping, or shoot what i can use to make the edit easier.
so i take these portrait shot times etc, as a way to rest, coz by then, ive already hit the 5hr mark so i deserve a rest.. but if its a Macedonian wedding, forget it.. trust me.. Maco weddings are prolly the hardest to ever do, let alone edit and deliver... Some people think Indian weddings are difficult.. no theyre just boring coz yur sittin there for 4 hours straight... cutting is easy, jsut make sure you have at least an hours worth of cutaways... but for Maco. i tell ya, there a friggin knightmare.. god money, but an extreme nightmare.. i can say that coz im part Maco myself, so theres no racial issues here.. hey maybe we can write up a culture sticky.. hmm..

oh i just remembered.. with the cake and the first dance..
I have done afew weddings on the cheap where the couple didnt even need us (us as in photographer and me) to stay longer than the time the meals came out.. prolly coz they didnt wanna fork out $100bux to feed us.. but either way, weeeve actually set up dummy cake cut shots, and even dummy bridal waltz's so even if you are restricted to time, get them to pretend to cut the cake, just make sure the angle your shooting at LOOKS like the knife is going through...who knows they might want to even bump up the official cake cut anyway..
as for the first dace.. u really only need 3/4 footage of the actual duration of the song..(slow mos will extend this and give u room to move during edit.... ) the song doesnt have to be played, but i find that gettin them to dummy the dance, is actually funnier and the response from BG is that they get a lil embaressed so they laugh.. this is a good thing as the looks they give each other is actually alot more natural as oppsed to feeling 100 prying eyes staring at them.... but in the end, they have fotos and a video which is workable with a story and doesnt bust their bank.. on top of that, you can even get some awesome shots this way, as you dont have to worry about being unobtrusive at this time. Theyre doing this for YOU and and Photographer, so getin in there and gettin those trippy shots is also a good thing..
bow about a hand held crane like shot over their heads DURING the dance... :) u dont see that often..or how bout setting up a light behind them and gettin the camera about 30cm from their faces and as they close in for a kiss you slowly zoom in while you pull the camera back?
its shots like this you CANT get in "real life" (well you can but youd look silly) so you can always get a good result, even if you think its a bad situation..

Jennifer,

I know zip about shooting weddings so I probably shouldn't even be replying.... But it seems to me that if you are on stand-by and unable to make money shooting another gig, are tying up your equipment and crew etc.; than you should be paid for this time.

Professional clients understand this. Perhaps you SHOULD add something to your contract regarding this issue. Try not to give any of your time away unless you are just starting out and need the video for your reel.

Sincerely,

Steph

My time starts generally a day or two before the rehearsal and ends either at the very end of the reception or [occasionally] after a morning after brunch. I work out w/ the B&G or wedding planner a day close to the wedding when all of the final preps start coming together. I work out the hours that I start to be before everyone else shows up :)

Then I'm at the rehearsal, rehearsal dinner, any after parties, etc. I've done a bachelorette party this way as well.

All of the footage (averages about 20 hours worth - up to 3 cameras) gets edited into a feature length mocku/documentary with normal feature style special features.

Probably doesn't help what is being looked for, but it throws some different boundaries and perspectives in the mix :)

Jennifer,

But it seems to me that if you are on stand-by and unable to make money shooting another gig, are tying up your equipment and crew etc.; than you should be paid for this time.
I second this. It's not like you can go home and walk the dog or do anything else meaningful with that time. Whether you're shooting or not, you're on the clock. There's always something to do. Here in Indianapolis, it's not uncommon to drive 30 minutes from the ceremony to the reception. By the time I park, unload, set up, and finish shooting establishing shots, the B&G are arriving. There's usually very little, if any, down time.

I sell my services in a continuous block of time starting one hour before the ceremony. There are no breaks for me. My clients know my availability, and they do with it what they want. My standard wedding is a six-hour block, but I can also provide comprehensive coverage in as few as four hours, if the ceremony and reception are at the same location. Don't sell yourself short. I started out charging only for time shooting but quickly realized how unfair this was.

T.J.

Patrick,

What do you charge for your three day wedding coverage? I have been asked about it but am not sure I even want to get into it. Seems to me the price tag would have to be in the $4000 range to even start making that worth it.

Mike

Charging for "shooting time" is like charging by the minute for ACTUAL tape used. Instead of 2 hrs ceremony + 2 hrs reception, think in terms of six hours total time start to finish. Some you will shoot a lot, some not so much. Aim for average time/price and don't sweat the extremes.

I too agree with Stephanie. Keeping in mind that I don't normally do weddings, take it for what it's worth. I charge from the time I set up, to the time I break down. If I only shoot 3 hours, but was there 8 hours, they get charged 8 hours. It helps keep people mindful of my time.

I thikn you also have to keep in mind that your selling a service here too. Well it is very reasonable to want coverage to be continuous, or to charge for periods of inactivity, with all other things being equal, clients will often book with those who are more flexible. If your quality is like nothing else in the area and you feel you need to be treated that way, then of course you have plenty of freedom to do things how you would like.

From a marketing perspective, I think it is a much better route to estimate the average amount of inactivity, price your packages accoding to that, and don't worry about small variations. If you come up against something that is extreme, then add in an additional fee, but I would price your packages assuming a couple hours of inactivity. Of course this means that some will pay for that inactivity when they don't need it, but I think you get more value out of being flexible, reducing the number of additional fees, and having a more comprehenzive option. This is how we work our mid-to high packages. We are less flexible about our lower ones. Just another perspective.

I think it is a much better route to estimate the average amount of inactivity, price your packages accoding to that, and don't worry about small variations. If you come up against something that is extreme, then add in an additional fee, but I would price your packages assuming a couple hours of inactivity. Of course this means that some will pay for that inactivity when they don't need it, but I think you get more value out of being flexible, reducing the number of additional fees, and having a more comprehenzive option. This is how we work our mid-to high packages. We are less flexible about our lower ones. Just another perspective.

I would agree with Patrick's assesment. Having some time built in keeps you paid and the B/G happy! Be flexible for the "unexpected" I had a wedding three weeks ago where saddly the brides mother had a seizure and the B/G went to the hospital with her. The reception had just started, and they wanted to come back if everything went ok at the hospital. Three hours latter they returned in jeans and tee-shirts, looking a little down. They went through the rest of the reception and seemed to be alright. Myself and the rest of their vendors stayed as did most of the guests. While it was a large amount of time not-paid for, I felt a little good will would be better than playing the professional who's time was money and had to leave. Each situation is different, and while I realize this case is a bit severe you should use your best judgment.

Ok... In case of stroke, I could see sticking around, as that is something out of the ordinary. But 2 hours, because of a photographer? That is just not cool to do to a working person.

I am with Tim and Stephanie. I work mostly in broadcast and corporate communications but in the past have done weddings for friends at no charge and I have done them for actual paying work so I'm familiar with the frustrations. Most of the incidents and intricacies and just plain headaches that have to be endured that you all have described and that I have experienced is why I just don't do them anymore. Working for professional clients and consumers is two different things. They can both be demanding but the pro clients have the budgets and on the most part consumers....well.

The solution to all of this is to charge for your time according to industry standards, a worthwhile flat rate. Breaking your time down into all of these little tables and special circumstances is just a waist of time and is just plain inefficient. The standard (non union) these days is a flat rate for 10 hours with OT after 10 and DT after 12 hours. It is moving toward 12 hours as the mininimum though which still isn't that bad. (See rates below) This way, you are on the clock the whole time and if there is down time (beyond your control), you're still covered. On a couple of shows that I have worked on, producers have wanted the crew to do what is know as a split or walk away. That is, they want you available for the whole day but not necessarily committed. It may be split with a gap in the middle to prevent having to pay overtime. The thing is that you can't sell that additional time so you just have a break off the clock. This is very unpopular and usually doesn't fly with savvy crews. Your response may be, the folks we cater to won't pay rates like that. My answer is simply this, then find something else to do. There's no way I could produce wedding videos for a living at lower than industry standards and have to put up with what I have in the past and what others I know currently endure. I have a lot of respect for those of you who do produce this content and put up with the crap! I know exactly what you're going through and I am just not willing to put with it. I have been talked to like I was the help and that will NEVER happen again! That and working in retail, never again. Consumers are more demanding than any professional client that is actually paying you your worth all thanks to corporate America spoiling them with free this and free that.

If you are not, at least, getting the rates below and are confident that you are providing a great product, then you need to seriously consider finding another profession because you are not getting what you deserve!

Recent Shooter Labor Rates
$400.00 / shooter / day for 10 hours & $60.00 / hour after 10 or 12 (negotiable)

Recent Gear Rates
$200 - $250 / camera / day - depending on camera (XL, DVX, PD 150, etc.)

$50 / wireless mic / day

Post & Tape Stock

$25 / hour import/export (more in & less out)

$100 / hour on-line & Graphics - $50.00 / hour

Tape Stock - TBD (usually $10 per 60 min load)

I have a friend who had plumbers at his house recently, and the bill included $6 an hour for the truck to be parked there. LOL

James what do you think about an all-inclusive rate for a day of production, including cameras, mics, lights, expendables, and one assistant? I just feel that clients don't want or need the detail, and they always hire me with my camera. Some use more mics and some use less.

And do you do half-day rates? (or maybe only with a one-day minimum?)

But if his rates are lower than you quoted, he should certainly focus on getting there (at least). But when you are new, any work is better than no work. And wedding people have other compensations, mostly that it fits into a nice extra-job schedule vs. full-time pay and commitment.

I would not have paid that $6.00 / hour parking fee! That is absolutely ridiculous. That's right up there with the phone company charging me an additional $7.50 per month for my second line. It's not enough that I'm already paying an entirely seperate bill for the extra line. Why don't they just go ahead and charge me for all of my neighbors' lines in the neighborhood too? That is highway robbery, legalized extortion!!

Oh, I agree with the one rate deal for everything. I was just itemizing everything in that post for info purposes to show how a total is derived. Most consumers don't give a damn about knowing all those details but pro clients sure enough want an itemized list of everything they paid for. This is known as a kit rental.

The production cost is determined by the number of people and what their positions are, number of cameras (what model), mic(s) (type), light kit(s) (type), expendables (usually just thrown in if not out of pocket costs). I never charge any extra for use of small things like stingers, power strips, gels, gaff tape, etc. unless it is a rental. If alot is used, I will charge for it as a kit rental or grip package. The reason I don't usually charge for that small stuff is because I'm already getting paid very well for the labor and the rental of my primary gear.

I don't do half days or splits (as I mentioned) because you can't sell that time not used. The one's that try that with you will only take from you what you let them.

I'm not talking about beginners in this discussion. I am talking about those that are making a living doing this and are established. We have all worked for free or next to free at one time or another. I'm not in this industry for the money, I just like what I do, but it just so happens that you can do very well in it. We all have bills to pay so I can't and I won't work for free or next to free!

Another industry standard still in use today but becoming rare is the portal to portal billing method. This means that your time starts from the time you leave the office to the time you get back to the office. I would say the folks from the old school with long term relationships with clients are the one's able pull that off because it can get quite expensive and if there's one thing these production companies don't like, it's extra expense.

All my literature and contracts says that my time starts when I arrive at the first location for the day and ends when I leave the reception, with all time in between locations and events included. I usually cut people some slack when their schedule requires a slightly longer day than expected, but at least I have a contract which says I can leave if I've put in the allotted time. I also try to make sure people sign up for a package which includes enough hours for their event, and then charge accordingly so I don't have to worry about billing extra hours after the fact. The way I see it, it's just tacky to be haggling about time and money at the end of the evening, so try to address that up front. If you find yourself in an unexpected situation, you have to decide whether to hassle the couple for extra money, or just suck it up and shoot the video you need to shoot.

I think sometimes you need to get the job done even if it falls outside the time frame. I would not, ever want an assignment or product look weak just because I didn't spend an extra hour or so getting it right.

I have done plenty of weddings to know most have there own pace, sometimes you get burned, but the book, tape has your name on it.

It is not like you can handle another asignment on the wedding day.

Charge more.