Apart from connecting via HDMI cable is there anything else I need to do? How about timecode and audio?

Extra cables needed with my XLH1.

Ron

Dear Ron,

You just need a HDMI cable, Type A to Type C.

Type A is the regular large connector
Type C is the mini HDMI connector

HDMI does not carry timecode, and the HV20 does not output timecode but it does output audio.

There are all different quality HDMI cables.

Type A to Type C cables are harder to find.

The ones that nanoFlash.net - Free Express Shipping*with purchase of nanoFlashOrder online or email rick@nanoflash.net (http://www.nanoFlash.net) sells have proven to be better than most.
These are the same that Convergent Design used to sell individually to our dealers.
These are the ones that are included in our nanoFlash bundle.

Other dealers may have these quality Type A to Type C cables.

I think what Ron needs is a Type C to Type C ( Mini to Mini) to connect that camera to the NANO.
Not that easy to find.
rafael

Dear Rafael,

The Canon HV20 uses a Type A (Large) HDMI connector.

We include a Type A to Type C HDMI cable in our nanoFlash Bundle, and these cables are available at nanoFlash.net (http://www.nanoFlash.net) and other dealers, of course, sell them also.

Dan is correct, The HV20 uses the Type A to Type C HDMI cable

I have an HV20 but the nano flash can't see it any more.

I also have a CD Nano Connect hooked to a Black Magic Multi-Bridge Ext,
that also can't see the HV20

Yet when I hook it up to a TV via HDMI it plays fine

If any one has any ideas I would appreciate it.

Dear Rob,

That is a tough one.

Are you using to the same HDMI cable when you hook it up to your TV?

I assume not, as the HV20 to nanoFlash cable has to be Type A to Type C.

While the HDMI cable to your TV would normally be a Type A to Type A cable.

Hi Dan,

Yes you are correct I am using a different cable to the TV ,

I tried 3 different HDMI cables so I don't think it's the cable.

I personally think it the HV20, probably a voltage thing,

because I hook up my Sony V1U via HDMI to the Nano and it had no problem

seeing it.

I just thought I'd ask, maybe someone else had the same problem.

Thanks

Hi Rob,

I realize this is an obvious item, so it is probably not the issue, but I thought I would throw it out there nonetheless. I would never have dared make this suggestion except that I have done it myself!

I sometimes hook an HV40 (similar to HV20) to a nanoflash. I am embarrassed to say that on occasion I have made the mistake of sticking the HDMI cable (small connector end) into the wrong plug on the nanoflash. The writing is very small on the nano and I have a little trouble seeing which is in and which is out. There is only one plug on the HV40 so I can't go wrong at that end.

Hope you find the answer soon,
Alan

H Alan,
Thanks for the suggestion but that was the first thing I checked.

Also don't be ashamed of hooking your HV40 to the nano that is a 1080 422 singnal

coming out of the HDMI port.

The reason I do it is because my EX1 is to heavy for my Merlin, and I hat having to capture

from tape.

Hi Rob,

Too bad -- I was hoping it would be easy.

Here's one other thought. I have found that the order of connecting things makes a difference. If you have the camera on and hook up the nanoflash with the HDMI cable already in place, they won't communicate. Instead try getting everything hooked up with the camera on and the nanoflash on but not seeing the camera. Then leave the camera on, and turn the nanoflash off, then on again. Depending on the model, it may mean disconnecting the battery. If that doesn't work try it the other way around (nanoflash on and turn the camera off then on). I also find it takes a moment or two (can be 10 seconds) for the two to complete the handshake.

By the way, I agree that the images from the HV40 into the nanoflash are amazingly good if the light is just right (not too contrasty and not too dark) and it is so nice not to have to deal with the tape.

Good luck, Alan

Dear Rob,

I have no idea why your nanoFlash works properly with another HDMI camera and not your HV20.

We use the HV30 in our lab all of the time.

What frame rate are you using?

Have you tried 1080i59.94 (which may be listed as 1080i60 in the camera)?

Did you selected "HDMI IN" on the NANO?
By default the NANO is set for SDI IN.
Rafael

Dear Rob,

Luben has suggested that you try turning off Video|E to E Direct.

If you have it off, try turning it on.

Thanks for the suggestion Luben.

Hi Ronald,

I was having the same issue with my HV20 and NF. One day when I went to use it, I had a No SRC message on NF screen. What I discovered is that the order of bootup is important for some reason. If I already have the NF booted before plugging in the HDMI cable, I get the error. But as long as I have already turned on the HV20 and have all the HDMI cables plugged in, then boot the NF, I get a signal.

Try that and see if it works for you.

Dan, any idea why I'm experiencing this? I've had that issue before when connecting my computer to a FW device but never had issues with HDMI connections. Can you recreate this in your test labs? To get the error all I have to to is have the NF already booted before connecting the HDMI or if the cables are all connected and the NF is on, but the HV20 is not turned on yet, when I turn on the HV20 it is not recognized.

I'd be interested to hear if that's the case for others.

With my EX3 and SDI connection I have no problems and it doesn't matter what order I connect/turn on thing in.

-Garrett

H Alan,
Thanks for the suggestion but that was the first thing I checked.

Also don't be ashamed of hooking your HV40 to the nano that is a 1080 422 singnal

coming out of the HDMI port.

The reason I do it is because my EX1 is to heavy for my Merlin, and I hat having to capture

from tape.

Rob,

Would you care to comment on how the HV40 nano files look compared to EX-1 native or nano files?

Thanks much!

Dear Friends,

I was not aware that we had an issue in which one needs to boot up the nanoFlash last.

We will check this in our lab.

We have an HV30 and other cameras, but we do not have an HV20.

But, I think the HV30 and the nanoFlash may work the same.

So, we will start testing with the HV30 to see if the startup sequence is important.

We would like to resolve this.

Hi Alan,

My HV20 did work with the nano for a some time and that was exactly

what I had to do, some times I would have to shut the Nano off and then restart

Other times I would start the Nano on first, them start the camera.

If I changed any settings on the Nano, I would have to start the process all over again.

Now no matter what I do the Nano will not see the HV20 .

So in conclusion I think its lights out for this HV20, It probably time to upgrade anyway.

Thanks,
Alan and also Dan for your suggestions

Dear Rob,

I do not know if it is the nanoFlash or your camera.

It is interesting that the nanoFlash works fine with another camera.

So, I would not get rid of your HV20 until we resolve this issue.

If you want to send it to us, we could test it for you.

Hi Peter,

I have never used the HV20 and the EX1 footage in the same project.

But I can tell you that the quality is there, as long as you record at 100mb.

Although Canon and Sony treat color differently, and the HV20 is brighter.

But with some color and gamma adjustments, you could make it work.

Hi Dan,

I would be more then happy to send the HV20 to you.

Just tell me where to send it.

Thanks

I have mixed footage from my HV20 + NF with footage from my EX3. You can make it close but there is still a very noticeable difference. For the money, the HV20/30/40 is an exceptional camera. Even though it is an HDV camera it still can give a better picture than many of the newer AVCHD cameras. When paired with the NF even at 50Mbps it looks really good. The key is to not let the camera do any of the thinking. Set your shutter and exposure manually and use manual focus if at all possible.

But, at it's best, the HV20 with the NF can't come close to even the native 35Mbps picture you can get from the EX cameras. The EX's picture is cleaner, sharper, has more depth, captures better color and it just has more dynamic range. Motion on the EX is way better too. The EX can be made to look more like film where as the HV20 still has that video look, even when captured with the NF. You can be very impressed when looking at the HV20+NF footage alone, but when compared to the EX footage and especially when placed side by side, it's not even close.

So, when have I mixed footage? I use my HV20 as a backup cam as well as when I want to be very discrete. It is nice to be holding what is really a consumer/family cam but when plugged into the NF it makes a big difference, especially in post. I've also used it when doing gorilla documentary shooting. I just purposefully make sure the picture is different looking enough from the EX3 so that no one would think we're trying to match cameras when cutting. And, the great thing about recording to the NF is it removes the pulldown for me when shooting 24p.

-Garrett

Interesting comments above.

How does HV20 footage via a nano compare with XLH1 footage via the same route?
HDV footage is better on the XLH1 than it is on a HV20 as one might expect, but not horrendously different.

Presumably the differences are of the same magnitude whether with/without a nano.

Ron

Daer Friends,

In my opinon, the HV20, HV30, and HV40 are wonderful cameras and produce a very nice image, when there is adequate light.

However, when comparing these cameras to more professional cameras, one has to consider that the more professional cameras have better controls, are better in low light, and have better control over the images.

Interesting comments above.

How does HV20 footage via a nano compare with XLH1 footage via the same route?
HDV footage is better on the XLH1 than it is on a HV20 as one might expect, but not horrendously different.

Presumably the differences are of the same magnitude whether with/without a nano.

Ron

I've shot stuff with both my HV40/Nano and my XLH1S/Nano.

And yes, the HV40/Nano stuff looks really nice, but the XLH1S/Nano is a league better (better colors, dynamic range, sharpness, etc). Its what Dan mentions... you have far, far more control over the image parameters (knee, gammas, black range, RGB matrices, and many more that are just not possible to adjust with the HV cams), plus the pro camera is just a flat out higher quality image maker to begin with. Despite the use of the Nano, the HV footage still exhibits the color characteristics of its one sensor, which always looks muted compared to the XLH1S's footage from its 3CCD array (and I'm sure the optics are playing a role here too).

But all things considered, the HV cams are exceptional for the price. There is quite a noticeable difference between the HDV and Nano footage from the HV cam, especially in terms of sharpness.

Though the HV20/30/40 + NF gives a very impressive image, when compared to the XL H1 series of cameras there would be no comparison. Just the improvement in glass alone will make big enough difference that you could never get the HV series to rival it.

But, I've shot with my HV20+NF for clients because it was the right instrument for the situation, and they were more than happy with it. Properly set up, it can look very very good.

-Garrett

"You can't get a quart out of a pint pot" as they used to say and also "horses for courses".

My HV20 plus nano should be handy when I want some cutaway footage, location shots and the like when videoing birds with big lenses attached to XLH1.

Will need to develop some skills in quickly re-setting nano for HV20 and vice versa with XLH1.


Ron

Dear Ron,

In my opinion, the key to getting good footage out of the Canon HV series is having enough light.

At lower light levels, the quality of the image will drop off.

Totally agree. WIth plenty of light, the HV cams offer fantastic image quality, which is only further increased by the Nano.

But once the camera has to start using its gain, the image degrades fairly quickly. Unlike the XLH1S or EX1 where as you gain up, you still retain sharpness, color, etc., with the HV, the image sharpness, colors, etc. suffer much more in addition to the added noise from gain.

Dear Friends,

To add to Michael comments:

While our eyes work very well in normal indoor lighting, this level of lighting is not adequate for many cameras.

This comes as a surprise to many when they first use cameras (camcorders), and they sometimes wonder why their images are not a good as they expected.

These same cameras may work very well in bright sunlight and other lighting conditions, just not when the light level is low.

I generally have ND filter on my HV20 as I always use it outdoors, and find the images otherwise can be a bit harsh. As there is no separate timecode output will I have to trigger either directly on the nano or via the CD remote cable which I happen to have? If so do I need a tape in the HV 20?


Ron

ps before leaving the world of old English proverbs relating to "reality over hope" how about: "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear".

Totally agree. WIth plenty of light, the HV cams offer fantastic image quality, which is only further increased by the Nano.

But once the camera has to start using its gain, the image degrades fairly quickly. Unlike the XLH1S or EX1 where as you gain up, you still retain sharpness, color, etc., with the HV, the image sharpness, colors, etc. suffer much more in addition to the added noise from gain.

Michael,

Michael, this may be blasphemy, but I actually believe that an HV opened to 4 or 5.6, shooting outdoors and using the right amount of ND to prevent highlight blowout, would create an image that can rival an EX, XH or XL.

Those are very specific requirements that are impractical for many projects. But I think if you give it enough light, perferably daylight, and stay away from wide open or too closed, you can get a killer picture that is in the same league as the cameras in the group above it.

You own both, so you'd know better than me, but I don't think the above is as crazy as it sounds.

Dear Friends,

I would like to share a story.

A friend and I were testing his HV30 with the nanoFlash, nothing serious, just informal testing.

The interview subject was in front of closed blinds, with some light coming through, and one CFL half exposed in a reading light fixture. (CFL = compact fluorescent lamp)

With the HV30, feeding a HDMI monitor, one would have normally expected the CFL details to be blown out.

But they were not. One could see all of the details of the CFL. I was quite surprised. So the HV30 handled the nicely lit subject and the highlight details of the CFL.

The HV30 actually outputs full 4:4:4 over HDMI!

(But, the nanoFlash has to extract 4:2:2 from the HDMI for the recording.)

As there is no separate timecode output will I have to trigger either directly on the nano or via the CD remote cable which I happen to have? If so do I need a tape in the HV 20?

Ron


Ron, you don't have to have a tape in but you do have to turn off the power save mode the camera will shut down after 5 minutes. To trigger the nanoFlash either use the controls on the face or use a remote.


Michael,

Michael, this may be blasphemy, but I actually believe that an HV opened to 4 or 5.6, shooting outdoors and using the right amount of ND to prevent highlight blowout, would create an image that can rival an EX, XH or XL.

Those are very specific requirements that are impractical for many projects. But I think if you give it enough light, perferably daylight, and stay away from wide open or too closed, you can get a killer picture that is in the same league as the cameras in the group above it.

You own both, so you'd know better than me, but I don't think the above is as crazy as it sounds.

I own an HV20 and an EX3 and unfortunately no matter how perfectly you setup the HV20 it can't even rival the EX3 in any situations. I've tried even with a carefully light scene, so I had full control of the lighting and set all controls for the HV20 so I was manually running it. I don't recall the exact f-stop setting but it was probably somewhere around the 5.6 range.

Sorry, there is still no substitute for better glass and superior processing.

-Garrett

...

The HV30 actually outputs full 4:4:4 over HDMI!

(But, the nanoFlash has to extract 4:2:2 from the HDMI for the recording.)

I'm actually not that surprise by this. While HDMI is not a robust as HD-SDI, it has much wider bandwidth. I believe the latest HDMI specs can handle even 1080 60p 4:4:4.

Do you have any idea if this a peculiarity of the HV-30 or Canon camcorders or if other makers are also outputting 4:4:4 out the HDMI? Just curious.

Thanks Dan.

Dear Peter,

Sorry, but I don't know.

I just learrned directly from Canon that the HV30 that the output is 4:4:4.

So, I assume that the HV20 and HV40 do the same.

I

Michael,

Michael, this may be blasphemy, but I actually believe that an HV opened to 4 or 5.6, shooting outdoors and using the right amount of ND to prevent highlight blowout, would create an image that can rival an EX, XH or XL.

Those are very specific requirements that are impractical for many projects. But I think if you give it enough light, perferably daylight, and stay away from wide open or too closed, you can get a killer picture that is in the same league as the cameras in the group above it.

You own both, so you'd know better than me, but I don't think the above is as crazy as it sounds.

Certainly no blasphemy here, lol. And not crazy sounding at all...

The HV actually seems to lock itself at 5.6 for as long as it possibly can in bright conditions when you shoot in TV mode to lock the shutter. It's image really is quite nice, and close to the same league as cameras above it, but I still wouldn't call it equal. The overall PQ of the pro cams are still better, mainly attributable to the level of control over image parameters. Just the ability to adjust individual RGB matrices in the XL alone is just one example. And the lens and 3CCD system still gives a characteristically richer color scheme. The HV's color from the 1 CMOS still feels slightly muted and dynamic range is more limited. But yes, in given ideal conditions, the HV cams shine and I feel they still rival the best out there in the consumer world.

Extremely belatedly, the thought of having to pay out £1000 for a new small camcorder plus the purchase of a tripod bracket to hold both cam and Nano being the spur, I actually tried just now connecting my HV20.

Settings : Trigger - Record Button

Source - HDMI

Timecode- Internal


All I get with cam in record mode, without a tape and Record Button on Nano pressed is the message:

"Still Awaiting Source". The HDMI cable I'm using works okay the other way i.e. when connected to HDMI "out" on the Nano and "in" on my monitor.

Would appreciate some suggestions as to what is wrong with my set-up. Will be v. pleased if/when I've proved to my own satisfaction that my Nano has (substantially) upgraded another of my old Canon camcorders,

Ron

Ronald, beware of false contact with HDMI connections. It happens often unfortunatly.

Also, you should look that, in the HV20 menus, the HDMI output is ON and perhaps 1080i resolution need to be selected (on Nano too)… I'm not sure that these menus options exist on the HV20 but you should have a look there.

Dear Ron,

You should be able to record from the Canon HV20 to the nanoFlash.

Without going into record mode, when properly connected and setup, you should see the frame rate display on the bottom left of the nanoFlash.

And, if you have System|Trigger set to Record Button or Record&Remote, you should be able to press Record and have it record (Of course System|Source must be set to HDMI).

Do you have a cable to test the HDMI output from the HV20 to your HDMI Television?

Thank you Dan and Ronan.

Well, it just worked without me changing anything! I switched the camera on, then the Nano, then pressed to Record button and voila!

Pitch dark here so will have another go tomorrow in daylight. Fingers crossed, maybe , as mentioned above, there needs to be a set procedure for switching everything on,


Ron

Stopped working!

Is there a list of small current camcorders that are known for sure to work with a Nano?


Ron

Dear Ron,

Almost any camcorder with an HDMI output can be used with the nanoFlash.

It sounds you have have a HDMI cable problem.

Or your HDMI output from you camera may be bad.

Do you have a cable that allows you to connect your HV20 directly to an HDMI Television?
If so, you could easily test the camera end.

Does the nanoFlash say "No SRC" at the bottom left.

If so, then the nanoFlash is not receiving a proper signal from your HV20 (if all of the settings are correct, which they seem to be since you had it working for a while.)

Ron,

I've got an HV20 and nanoFlash and have used it many times to record. One thing that I noticed is that the boot order sometimes makes a difference. I can't remember what exactly I do but I believe I fire up the nanoFlash first then turn on the camera. If that doesn't work do it the other way around.

I'm not sure why this makes a difference but it just does for me.

-Garrett

Dan,

The HDMI cables ( I have three different ones) work okay when connecting the Nano to my monitor, and I can connect the HV20 to a monitor using "normal" HDMI cables.

I think therefore it has to be said that the HV20 and Nano does not work consistently enough to be considered a reliable combination.


Perhaps I should start another thread asking "what small camcorders can be recommended for use with a nanoFlash?".

Ron

Hi Ron,

I have an HV40 that I tested with the nanoflash a while back. I recall that the order of connecting the cable , turning on the camera, and turning on the nanflash were important. If you have everything connected and turned on and the nanoflash is not seeing the source, try switching the camera off then on, or the nanoflash off then on, or unplugging and re-plugging the cable in. The nanoflash does not automatically see the HV40 source all the time. I remember that once I figured it out it worked.

The resulting images are better than the HV40 all by itself, but in low light or really bright light the images are not so great.

Hope that helps,
Alan

Dear Allan,

Thanks for posting.

The HV20, HV30, HV40 produce some nice images, but they are not great low light cameras.



Until proven otherwise, I would plug up the HDMI cable.

Then I would power on the nanoFlash,

Then I would power on the camera.


For HDMI, the camera interrogrates the receiving device, such as the nanoFlash, which needs to be on.

Hi Dan,

You are quite correct. When the conditions are right, nanoflash images from an HV series camera are really good, better than one might expect. Even when they are not so good, using a clean-up program like Neat Video can make a remarkable difference to marginal images, such as some low light images.

Another trick to remember is to turn off the power-saving feature of the camera. Otherwise it can be frustrating to get everything working again quickly enough to catch what has just started to happen. Linking a remote control to the nanoflash makes starting and stopping the recording a lot easier. I first rigged a belt holder for the nanoflash and relied on the tally light on the remote. That was not too smart and I was constantly wanting reassurance that the nanoflash was actually recording so I changed the rig to have the nanoflash attached behind the camera (still using the remote). That was much better although pretty crude. A simple DIY rig could be made so everything could neat ant tidy -- mine in test mode used a lot of bits and pieces held together with duct tape, but it worked. The test was done at a family Christmas party so the light was extremely variable, but very few clips were so bad they could not be tidied up enough to make the family happy.

Alan

While we're at this, is this issue also present on the Sony HC7/HC9? I have both a HV30 and HC7 and would like to know which one would be better compatibility wise.

I can't replicate what ever happened last night when momentarily I got a signal from the HV20 to the Nano.

I'll start another thread asking for PROVEN recommendations of small cams for use with a nanoFlash.


As for Alan's comments about mounting the camera and Nano. I have a small bracket which takes a quick release plate in the middle and has slots on either side taking 1/4 inch screws. I can thus screw a Nano onto one side and my HV20 (or other small cam) onto the other.

For power I use, and highly recommend, a Canon CH-910 Dual Battery Holder/Charger which connects to the power socket of the Nano via a special cable supplied by NanoFlash.Net.

910s can be picked up on ebay, and Canon clone batteries are muck cheap. I keep the charger either in a tripod skirt when using a 'pod or in my pocket or attached to a belt when not.

Recommend this set up even for those not using Canon cams.

Ron

Dear Ron,

As you may be aware, the nanoFlash requires a Type A to Type C (mini) HDMI cable.

The HV20 uses the Type A side which is full size HDMI.

Do you have a Type A to Type C cable, or are you using a Type A to Type A cable with an adapter?

Do you have two Type A to Type C cables so that you can test a second cable?