I think this is because some of the USB drive take power from the USB connector and in this case the camcorder would have to supply power. May not be enough power in batteries in this mode to power the external hard drive too. Also better to have mains supply rather than corrupt data if battery shuts down during transfer.

Ron Evans

Yes, I see your point.

Am also interested in more data about the 700 vs the 690. I really have no desire to have a GPS function.
Viewfinder is a high high want.

Dave

Found the CX690 on the Sony German site
Sony UK do not list the CX690, PJ50 or the CX560, seems at the moment we are not getting the full range as announced at CES, but Germany, another pal 50/25p territory are!






HDR-CX690E (HDRCX690E) : Übersicht : Kameras & Camcorder : Sony (http://www.sony.de/product/cam-high-definition-on-memory-stick/hdr-cx690e)

Says Recording on an optional memory card - Recording on removable Memory Stick ™ or SD Card (Memory Stick Pro Duo ™ or SD / SDHC)

I do not see any internal flash like the 700v, so this implies only to memory cards? If so, what are the pro and cons? Cost of a 96gig memory card?

Says no GPS.

Am also interested in more data about the 700 vs the 690. I really have no desire to have a GPS function.
Viewfinder is a high high want.

Dave

I think that the GPS is quite useful if you are traveling. Sets the camera clock to the correct time zone and will record the location where you took the shot. If you then use the Motion Browser software that comes with the camera you can get access to all this information in the calendar view and search by all sorts of information. I would have liked this on the SR11 when I was travelling between New Zealand and Australia as I got the clock out by 12 hours several times !! Bright sunshine at 2am is not what I expected !!!

I have my CX700 on order will come in the next few days.

Ron Evans

Yes it's card only, at a price of 200 euros less than the CX700 it would suit me as I would never use the internal memory anyway as I always back up 16gb cards as i go to be safe.

Ron, would really like to hear what you think of the CX700 when you have had a chance to try it out.

Hmm, that "690" is interesting, as it hasn't been officially announced anywhere I've seen, but is a logical addition to the line,,, looks to be a feature reduced 700, which might be to meet a market price point. Pretty close in price to the CX560 though if my mental calculations are right?

The CX560 is actually an extension of the CX500/520 lineage (which came from the CX7/12 ancestry), Thus the "no VF" design. The CX700 extends the CX550 and since the HDD based cams seem to have vanished in favor of flash memory, I guess they also replace the "XR" series at the top of the line. Sony has offered similar variations in the lineup for at least 5 years, if memory serves. The nice thing is image quality has always been quite consistent across the Handycam line, so mixing "last year's model" with this years model, or an XR with a CX, in a multicam shoot is easy.

Just unpacked my CX700 battery is charging as I do not have any V series batteries will have to wait and let the small 50 battery charge. Attached are a few quick photo taken with the XR500.

Box includes a USB extension cord, a nice lens hood that you can see in the photo does not shield the flash when attached. Will report more when I have had a chance to play a little more. Haven't even read the manual yet just picked up 30 mins ago.

Ron Evans

Thanks for posting those photos, Ron. That's a pretty good lens hood.

Little bit more information. There are two USB connections. One is the built in cable that you can see with the plug that fits in the strap. This is used for upload with the included USB cable extension. There is another USB connection that needs a special cable ( not included) that is used for uploading to portable USB drives or the Sony direct to DVD recorders. This plug is behind the same cover for the Memory Stick and SDHC connections . It's getting dark hear now so will wait until tomorrow for some daylight shots but the picture is noticeably better than the XR500 so will give my NX5U a real challenge.

Ron Evans

Will be interested to hear how performance is - shouldn't be THAT much better than the XR500, or it really will be giving the NX a run for the money! Although the CX550 is pretty impressive, and they do seem to manage a few tweaks here and there each year...

I'd noticed "lens hood" in the description, that is a mighty substantial one! None shown on the CX560 list, so that really drops the price differential down since a hood like that is around $40 typically from Sony... hmm. and since adding a mic would pretty much drop this right smack dab on top of the MC50U (and that's before the additional features)... wonder if there will be some big price drops or what - this starts coming really close to a "mini-pro" package!

Oh yeah, dumb question, how and where is the tripod mount? After the screwey position on the CX550, wonder if they rehired the tripod screw positioning expert!

Some shots of the bottom, side with the second USB connector, HDMI and the card slot, shot of the back with the mode switch etc.

The LCD is smaller but is very sharp and bright. Will do some more shooting tomorrow its dark now. What is surprising is taking some shots in my dark bedroom the data code shows 21db of gain and the image is pretty clean. Will do some more testing tomorrow against the XR500 and the NX5U.

Ron Evans

Ron, who did you order this from? Are others expecting to get soon? I also need the new cx160 ASAP so
am hoping they all ship

Got it from the local Sony store. I noticed it showed in stock on the Sony site so rang up and ordered it. Came in 3 days from Toronto I think. I was told there were only two in Canada.

Ron Evans

Well, at least looks to be centered under the camera, side to side, although pretty far forward again...

Somehow I think I've got that USB cable - seems like it's been used on some of their small P&S cameras. Definitley a bit weird having that cable sticking out on the strap the way they do...

I thought the imaging block was pretty much similar to the earlier 500/550 series, but sounds like they've tweaked things even more to get good lo noise and low light performance, guess technology continues to get better!

That whole hood thing now has me thinking the old CX500V's might be time to upgrade to the CX700... I like the CX550's too much to upgrade them, and can't imagine performance imroved that much between generations.

In the specs, I read that the chip has more pixels so it does look like an entirely different chip.

When you get the chance, can you please post 1080 60p clips on Vimeo?

That's the same USB port that the CX/XR550 has. I'd assume you can still use any old 5-pin mini-USB cable with it just like I do with my 550.

That port is interesting. It does not, in fact, look like the standard mini USB -- it looks more like their old component out proprietary D jack.

The USB on my xr520v is in the middle below. Note the difference in jack shape. But the pins in the middle do look similar. I dunno.

The port is not a standard USB port you are correct Adam. Needs a special cable that is not included though it does mention that the Sony DVD recorders will connect. I don't have one of those so do not know if they have a different cable for this purpose. There may be additional or less connections ? Will look closer this morning now its light. An interesting side note is the camera has not been outside yet but it knows where it is exactly on the map !!!!

Ron Evans

edit: Also the manual that came with the camera is for the CX560/560V and the CX700/700V. The " V " models have GPS.

Reading the manual choices on the CD there is also the CX690E. I loaded this as well as the CX700V to see if there were differences noted. The CX690E looks to be the same model without GPS or internal memory but does have all the other features of the CX700V including viewfinder and lens hood. So the top of this consumer lineup will be the CX690E, CX700E and CX700VE these are all PAL camcorders. The 690 does not appear to be in NTSC as far as I can tell.

Ron Evans

Hadn't realised this was out yet, at moment its priced £1500 preorder at amazon (!!!!). One quick question to those who have one - would the hood that comes with it fit a xr550?

The hood will not fit my XR500 not sure about the 550 series though. Price in Canada is $1299Can.

Paul I will try and record some 60P but today is not good weather outside for any shots of outdoor movement. It is dull, mix of rain and snow so not very pleasant. Could take a few days for the weather to clear up then I will try and get something interesting that makes 60P worthwhile. So far indoors I see little difference as expected.

Comparing to the XR500 and NX5U the colour seems to be a little lower easy to bring up to the same in Edius by adding about 5% to chroma then they match more closely. Wide angle is very wide compared to even the NX5U. The downside so far is that everything is in a menu. I would have like the low lux to be a switch like the XR500 but its buried in a menu.

Ron Evans

Ron -

I think this should have the customizable menu (unlike the XR500), so you can put up to 6 favorite buttons on the first "page" that comes up - that feature came back with the CX500 (released after the XR500), and unless they changed the menus again, should be present.

I think you and that other lucky guy in Canada must have gotten a couple they let out early, congrats on that!

Interesting observations on the model #'s, sounds like Sony has a "EU only" version in the 690, I suppose they figure the 560 serves the same basic purpose for the rest of us... have yet to actually SEE a "non-V" version of the cameras with GPS feature in the spec list, I really wonder if they exist (the 690 would be a "first", as a slightly dumbed down 700).

Vegas already supports 1080p60 through the MainConcept decoder. FCP, Avid, Edius, and etc are the odd people out when it comes to editing 1080p60. (Unless they use CineForm)

is it possible to make a bluray in 1080 60P? No compatibility issues?

No customizable menus Dave. So its a several step process for almost anything. Click menu, click selection. click sub section click selection and then make changes and backout of all the menus. Long processes for some things. Manual control works as before on my XR500. Hold in button until section come up, make selection etc. The AE shift is now just +/- 1.0 EV. It is possible to set more than one control as long as they do not conflict. ie fix shutter at1/60 and then use exposure for example.

I have just posted a short video at 60P taken from my front door in the rain to Vimeo but it is still processing. Will post again when I know its up.

Picture is better than the XR500 in that even at its indicated 21db( which is also new none of my other many Sony's go more than 18db) of gain the picture is still very usable. Impressive.

Ron Evans

This is the same type of question I have. If I buy this camera, capture in 60p, what improvements in output media is available, and will folks see a difference watching?

No 1080P60 is not part of the spec. Playback directly to the TV will be better than interlace because the TV will not have to deinterlace and effectively make up for the missing information. If you save to a Sony direct to disc recorder then you can playback from that to the TV. But for editing on an interlaced timeline it should work as any interlace file. For stills from this video file there will be a big improvement as there is twice the data available though it will have been compressed somewhat differently to a 60i stream.

So the home movie market for which it is intended who edit in camera and record directly to a Sony DVD recorder will end up with 60P discs that they can watch of their holidays or family events in glorious colour and 60P. Either from the same recorder or the PS3. Yes they will be better than Bluray !!!

Ron Evans

Interesting, I would want to edit all my stuff via some package like CS5.

When HDV first came out, there was no way to get to folks, but I grabbed the material in this format anyways. Then when tools caught up, I was able to make into BR DVD's now.

I am hoping this same approach works with 60p. I can take all the pictures with this of my granddaughters, and in the future, be able to use this somehow with better video quality when the tools catch up.

I did the same with HDV and output the files back to HDV tape after editing then. Now with AVCHD for all my cameras. Most of these are 60i so will stay with that format for now but I like the idea of eventually moving to 60P for all of them and maybe by then the standards will change. At least all the files can be saved in the highest format. I backup everything to DLT data tape anyway. LTo3 tapes are cheap ($25 for 400G ) so will hold over 30 hours of AVCHD. Vegas will edit the files on a 60P timeline or 60i timeline as will Edius.

Ron Evans

Ugh, I can't believe they eliminated the "my menu" capability that the CX500/520/550 had... that'd be an even bigger leap backward than downsizing the LCD!

This raises an interesting question, and I think you have to leave the camera sit for 24 hours to find this out, but on the CX500/550 the lo lux "turns off" automatically and must be reset from the menu (thus warranting a top level button). Does the setting "stick" in the 700?

Tried to find a link to the manual, and it apparently isn't posted yet, though it did say you Canandians could get this while us Southern North Americans can't!


I'd suspect that the 60P is more or less "future-proofing" as the standards continue to ramp higher and higher - i'm guessing that Vegas will handle the footage fine, but that once again it will require more horsepower to edit. I've noticed that Vegas 10 seems to handle the 24Mbps from the CX550V with no trouble, but I need to play with it some more to see how well it does when comparing to the 16Mbps stuff from the CX500 (comparable to the XR500)

I see the 60p being handy for "slo-mo", since you'll have double the data, and for pulling frame grabs, again due to the higher rez. Not sure how much improvement you'd see in most video though...


Blu Ray burners are coming down nicely, so won't be long until storing 25-50G shouldn't be too difficult!

Very short video on Vimeo in 60P. Shot from the front door as it was raining on a very slippery /icy condition . Not going to wander around outside until tomorrow !!!

HDR-CX700V at 60P Not good weather!!!! on Vimeo

Ron Evans

HDR-CX690E on the Sony Latvia website in English. Doesn't mention a lens hood as an accessory...

HDR-CX690E (HDRCX690E) : Overview : Cameras & camcorders : Sony (http://www.sony.lv/product/cam-high-definition-on-memory-stick/hdr-cx690e#pageType=TechnicalSpecs)

The hood is listed as an accessory in the manual (thanks, Ron), so it is likely to be in the box.

I am trying to find out if the Remote input is compatible with the Sony SPK splash packs. I have been using the HDR-SR11 in a spalsh pack for a couple of years. I am hoping the CODEC on this new camera will be better for shooting actions sports in water situations. I am generally filming off the back of a wave runner in the surf.

Thanks for any info

It should be compatible - generally the A/V jack has the remote input to accept the plug from the SPK.

You may have to use a different sled or modify one of them to position the camera, but I've been using SPK-HCB (older version of the sport pack) with CX550V's currently, and everything all the way back to the HC series in the past.

Not only will you find the encoding has improved, the sensor is better, and now with 60p it should also make for better shooting... Oh yeah, and most importantly, the OIS is massively better...

Yeah!!! Just got my shipping email from Sony Style. My cx700v will be here Wednesday. Can't wait!

Have been thrilled with my xr500v I bought 2 years ago.... Can't wait to are this top it.....

Will be interested to find out how you view changes from the XR500. I like the addition of zebra, peaking and expanded focus and the audio display. Lighter and smaller than the XR500 too. Noise seems to be very well managed.

Ron Evans

So, if I buy this camera, and record in 1080p60, what do I do with the material? BR only supports 1080p30.
Just trying to figure out how one is going to delivery to a customer to watch, now or into the future.

You can drop every other line and deliver 1080 60i, if you want smooth motion. Or you can slow the video by half for a clean slow motion effect.

Even if you will deliver in 60i, capturing in 60p rather than 60i is worthwhile. Interlace is terrible for post. If you want to "fly in" or "push down" a video frame, you can do it smoothly with a 60p source, while DVE effects with 60i material often flicker.

So, if I buy this camera, and record in 1080p60, what do I do with the material? BR only supports 1080p30.
Just trying to figure out how one is going to delivery to a customer to watch, now or into the future.

Bluray doesn't support 1080p30. Bluray is 1080i, 720p or 24p. Remember this is a consumer camera. The consumer can edit with the software provided by Sony or in-camera and playback on a Sony TV in 60P. That's Sony's intent. Same for Panasonic I expect. 60P will integrate fine in a 60i project and will then make a Bluray at 1920x1080i or a SD DVD as normal. For the future if the standards change then maybe there will be a 1902x1080P60 in the standard. The output from the CX700 has integrated fine both in Vegas 10 and Edius V6 with files from my NX5U and XR500. Just make sure the NLE has the properties correct.

Ron Evans

Ron, I am able to use CS5 to take 1920X1080p60 (just rounding) and have a BR disc made with 1920X1080 at 29.97fps setting and it works just fine. Now, looking around the web, it looks like one can author the full avchd 1920X1080P59.94 fps with some sw packages, burn onto dvd or BR media, and a number of BR players will play this avchd disc it sounds like. All I want from my output is a simple menu structure like a DVD has to just allow folks to move around easily in the material with thumb nails to show them what they are going to.
I guess the question is unless the monitor takes a native 1920X1080P59.97fps input, it would not matter.
So much to learn at this point, but still seems the bottom line is I will take video at the max quality and deal with tool improvements down the road. At least CS5 Premiere Pro can be set to work with the full quality video, even though I am not sure it means much.

Ordered my camera yesterday so hope to be playing with next week. I have my second granddaughter due in 3 weeks, so granddad needs to be ready with the camera.

Yes Dave most NLE's will just take fields from the full frame in a normal 60i project. That's what CS5 did for you ( 29.97fps is 60i). So until things change you can just make Bluray or DVD's as normal. PS3 will play the native files from any disc they are written too.

As to monitors, all the flat panel NTSC moitors ar 60P native. They unfortunately have to deinterlace the normal 60i input to display, so 60P is what they want, certainly over HDMI.

Ron Evans

Ron, cs5 Pro one can get to a project of 59.94 fps. So, when I bring in my video, I do not get the red bar on the timeline, just the yellow. When I input to encore, yep, only 29.97 option. BR output looks good.

I have been reading there is avchd authoring tools out there that will put menus with a Avchd disc that some devices will play the native 1920X1080p 59.94 fps.

Fun stuff to play with. Still wish I could have gotten a cheaper camera, but I wanted the eye piece so was forced to get the 700. Really did not need the GPS or large flash card, but what the heck.

I thought that the Motion Browser would make a 60P disc but it will not as far as I can tell. I have Edius V6.02 and Vegas 10 which will also use a 60P timeline but on export to Bluray of course will revert to 60i ( 29.97) to the spec.

Copying the files to a disc they will play in the PS3 though so will also have to see if I can find an authoring program that will do 60P BDAV.

Off away skiing for a week now.

Ron Evans

Ron,

Just like you, had really crappy weather here the day I got my camera (showed up last wednesday). So I've only been taking inside pictures, certainly NOT worth posting yet.

Do you have any issues with the transfer speed into a PC? My XR500V transfers stuff at about the speed you'd expect. However, the CX700V is dog slow. I mean I recorded a 58MB file and it took 2 minutes to transfer. The same size file on the XR500V took like 15 seconds.

Windows is not griping at me about "the speed can be faster" on the USB port.

You having these issues?

Stacy

Hello, I've been frequenting this thread to see if the CX700 is a good camera for me, but couldn't find enough info online, so I just bought it.

I didn't know you couldn't control the iris, shutter, and exposure at the same time. Does anyone know a way around this? Or at least be able to view the iris, shutter, and exposure on the LCD display at the same time? This is a real dealbreaker when I need complete manual control.

Here is a quick video review I did: YouTube - Sony HDR-CX700v REVIEW (http://bit.ly/ia2zUz)

Thanks.

Jeff ,
when did you buy the 700?
I chose to go with the cx550V because it was a great price, has the bigger lcd at 3 1/2", and pic quality wise its virtually identical to the 700 and 560.
the new features, peaking, zebras, 1080p and 24p would make sense for me on a higher end camera where you would use them.
but its hard to beat the performance and pic quality you get out of the cx550v.
on all these cams you can only utilize one manual adjustment,so you wont be able to control more than one at a given time.
the auto focus on this camera is excellant. im so used to shooting all manual focus (dsr300 dvcam) that i didnt think much of auto focus .but its very solid on the cx550v.
besides, since its so good, you wont use manual focus, besides the fact that using the little dial to focus is a pain.
if youre still under the return period, i would send it back and get the 550v. sony still has them for 950.

Jeff, good catch on the zebra, peaking and expanded focus not being on the CX560V... although on a small camera may not be a "necessity" - lived without them on prior Sonys.

As for "need complete manual control", there are limits to what you can do with the small form factor camera - on a bigger cam where you could have separate buttons/knobs for each function, it might be workable, but when you think about how these operate, you could easily end up "up a creek" without a control... with a larger cam, you just jump from button to button if you "need" to, but in a small camera, you've got to change button settings... As it is, you can press and hold the function button, choose EITHER iris or shutter, make your selection, then press and hold again and choose AE Shift...

You can use AE shift to alter the cameras "built in" exposure settings, in effect over-riding the preset exposure (which you also override when you adjust "exposure", albeit in a more coarse way, letting the camera decide best settings for shutter and aperature).

Effectively you are telling the camera to operate with aperature or shutter priority with the other two settings, I suspect this is done to prevent getting your image too far out of whack - this is after all a camera designed for the consumer. You should still be able to use AE shift if you want a blown out image or an artificially dark one.

As Jim notes, these cameras are already highly optimized, and generally will be able to adjust to a shooting condition faster than you can get to a button to change a setting... I find setting the AE Shift a bit to the "-" side and using exposure if and when needed is more than sufficient to control image quality in most shooting conditions.

In my mind the big difference with the CX700V is the 60p and the 28mps data rate at this setting. If you have looked at 60p at 28 mps from the Panasonic TM700 you know that the detail, lack of artifacts, and handling of motion is exceptional.

Pat