Full press release located here:

Canon Introduces the Compact XA10 Professional Camcorder at DVInfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-introduces-the-compact-xa10-professional-camcorder.html)

More photos to be found in the press release linked above. Here's a few...

I just saw it on Canons website, along with their slew of new consumer camcorders. I like this model, and it's at a good price point too.

Yup, their new lineup of cams really is interesting.

They basically brought the same lens/sensor/dsp of their XF line to their top of the line consumer cam as well as the XA10.

The main differentiator in terms of image quality now is the codec.

All the gaps in the line feel like they have been filled now. Only thing left now is at the very high-end, with a Canon XL successor needed.

Nice, but when will they release a larger-sensor (APS-C) camcorder? If Sony can do it for $2,000, then Canon should be able to do it, with 24p, for $1,200-$1,500 (sans lens).

These are CES announcements. The camera you're proposing is not a CES thing (at least, not for Canon USA). It's more like an NAB thing.

I was hoping for a shoulder mount. B & H has de-listed the XLH1S and XLH1A from it's site and I was hoping for a replacement, could this be a CES thing. Maybe a shoulder mount XF ??

These are CES announcements. The camera you're proposing is not a CES thing (at least, not for Canon USA). It's more like an NAB thing.

I don't know Chris... It's true that it SHOULD be an NAB thing, but how many times have we seen prototypes at consumer shows, or at the very least, about a month or two before NAB the companies usually do full press releases and then show at NAB. I could see them having something up their sleeves that will be on display at CES, like that 4k concept camera at Canon Expo...

That being said... Please don't bring out that concept camera again. As Stu M said on Prolost, "Very Funny Canon... Now get back to work."

I was hoping for a shoulder mount... Maybe a shoulder mount XF ??
Not at CES. Remember it's a *consumer* electronics show. A shoulder mount XF is
very much a pro-level thing. This little XA10 is as pro as Canon's gonna get at CES.
They'll show their higher-end stuff at NAB.

anyone know how the newly releases canon xa10 differs/compares/is the same as the previously newly released canon xf100?

thanks in advance

be well

rob

I don't know Chris... It's true that it SHOULD be an NAB thing, but how many times have we seen prototypes at consumer shows...
In the dozen years that I've been watching, attending, or exhibiting at CES, I can tell
you that Canon has never once shown prototypes there. Only new products that are
30 to 90 days from shipping.

or at the very least, about a month or two before NAB the companies usually do full press releases and then show at NAB. I could see them having something up their sleeves that will be on display at CES, like that 4k concept camera at Canon Expo...
Panasonic and JVC will hold pre-NAB press announcements a couple of months in
advance. Sony seldom does and Canon never has, since I first started attending in 1996.

That being said... Please don't bring out that concept camera again. As Stu M said on Prolost, "Very Funny Canon... Now get back to work."
As Philip Bloom correctly pointed out, Stu wasn't clear on the "concept." Canon Inc.
had absolutely no intention of revealing their *actual* forthcoming 4K camera design
(that is, if such a thing actually exists...).

The only logical conclusion a person could make from that concept piece is that the
real thing isn't going to look anything like that. I was surprised that Stu couldn't make
that simple connection. From the way he wrote his blog entry, it seemed as though
he thought a Canon 4K camera would really ship like that -- while myself and others
carefully explained that it should be obvious that it wouldn't.

What Stu didn't get is that Canon just wanted to demonstrate their 4K acquisition
ability without tipping off the actual camera design that they're (supposedly?) working
on. See my article: Canon Inc. shows UHD at Canon Expo at DVInfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/optical-science/canon-inc-shows-uhd-at-canon-expo.html)

anyone know how the newly releases canon xa10 differs/compares/is the same as the previously newly released canon xf100?

Same: sensor, processor, lens, EVF, flip-out LCD.

Different: AVCHD codec (instead of XF), SDXC card slots (instead of Compact Flash), built-in 64GB flash memory. Flip-out LCD adds touch-panel controls.

Those are the main things anyway.

From what I've so far read on the Canon website product pages just released it seems to be mainly the codec (up to 24Mbps AVCHD versus the 50Mbps MPEG codec), SDHC etc. type cards versus Compact Flash, Internal flash memory (64GB) versus none in the XF100. Not sure yet if it has an auto Neutral Density filter. Lots of other subtlties no doubt that will emerge. I think it also lacks the "little control thumbwheel" but has that great feature of detachable handle/XLR unit. Oh, and it's about $1300 cheaper. Looks like a winner in many respects!

Hopefully we will know more very, very soon from folks at CES this week.

With the XLR audio capability and lens hood this might be that "bridge" camera attractive to those with a consumer camera budget who want to do wedding or event videography but need a camera that looks pro enough to impress the customer.

Based on my several years old Canon HV20 I have no doubt it also has a great pic. Will be interesting to see what the street price will be. I am guessing around $1500

When it starts shipping in March, street price will be at or very close to full MSRP, which is $2,000.

Same: sensor, processor, lens, EVF, flip-out LCD.

Different: AVCHD codec (instead of XF), SDXC card slots (instead of Compact Flash), built-in 64GB flash memory. Flip-out LCD adds touch-panel controls.

Those are the main things anyway.

andy/chris-

thanks for the info.

i know that canon's xf codec was a version of sony's codec "borrowed" from the ex1/ex3 series of cameras.

is the avchd codec that canon is employing w/the xa10, a new canon product or a tried & true flavor "borrowed" from another camera maker?

moving from 50mbps to 24mbps can be a headache depending on the use of the footage.

moving from compact flash to sdhc feels like a wash to me. agree/disagree?

having 64gb of flash memory is a big plus.

canon has gotten to tapeless very late but in the last 6mos they have introduced the xf305/xf300, xf105/xf100 and now the xa10. good to see canon trying to close the gap between them and sony/panasonic.

thoughts?

be well

rob

i know that canon's xf codec was a version of sony's codec "borrowed" from the ex1/ex3 series of cameras.
Well, actually no, Canon XF is not the same thing as Sony XDCAM although both codecs plus Panasonic P2 are all based on the .MXF file format.

is the avchd codec that canon is employing w/the xa10, a new canon product or a tried & true flavor "borrowed" from another camera maker?Neither. Canon has been producing AVCHD camcorders for years. Just like Sony and Panasonic, Canon is one of the original founders of the AVCHD format consortium.

moving from 50mbps to 24mbps can be a headache depending on the use of the footage.Or a boon, for those folks whose NLE systems can't handle 50mbps playback or real-time editing.

moving from compact flash to sdhc feels like a wash to me. agree/disagree?
Since it's AVCHD, it must record to SDHC or SDXC. There's no such thing as an AVCHD camcorder that records to Compact Flash.

Here's the deal:

If you want Compact Flash and a 50mbps format, stick with Canon XF.
If you prefer SDHC and the AVCHD format, then the XA10 is an option.

If you want Compact Flash and a 50mbps format, stick with Canon XF.
If you prefer SDHC and the AVCHD format, then the XA10 is an option.

pro. features aside I wonder which one has better overall performance, as soon as they both available I'll do side by side XF100 and XA10, I'm guessing they'll be close

I fly out to Vegas for CES tomorrow so I'll try to get pics and video of the new cams when I get there.

The XA10 has a touch screen LCD - unlike the XF100. If you look at the (albeit flash driven demos) on the Canon USA website of how this screen can be used (e.g. for 'Touch and Track' focus and exposure, also for selecting clips to review/playback) it certainly looks impressive and highly useful that it is a touch screen.

Note that you need to look at some of the "lesser" new VIXIA models to see these demos - as they are not in the detailed 'Features' and 'Specification' pages of the XA10 section of the Canon website (but these features are mentioned - so it has them!)

Well, actually no, Canon XF is not the same thing as Sony XDCAM although both codecs plus Panasonic P2 are all based on the .MXF file format.

I believe they all use .MXF as the wrapper & MPEG-2 is the codec.

But the JVC HM100 & HM700 shoot in XDCam (MPEG-2 codec) in either a .MXF wrapper or a .MOV wrapper (built for FCP).

Codec vs. wrapper two very different & sometimes confusing things.


Since it's AVCHD, it must record to SDHC or SDXC. There's no such thing as an AVCHD camcorder that records to Compact Flash.


Just to expand some more... There is nothing stopping AVCHD from being recorded onto Compact Flash, just there are no cameras out there that do.

The only limits of recording a specific codec (XDCam, DVCPro HD, AVCHD, etc. etc.) to a specific medium (SDHC, CF, P2, SxS, etc. etc.) is the models of cameras the manufactures choose to produce & an acceptable read/write speed of the medium that matches the necessary bandwith of a codec.


If you want Compact Flash and a 50mbps format, stick with Canon XF.
If you prefer SDHC and the AVCHD format, then the XA10 is an option.

One is Diet Coke, the other is Coke Zero.

Or, the best camera out there, is the best camera for you, which is often different than the best camera for the next guy, which is different than the best camera for me.

I'm impressed with, imho, the good selection of cameras Canon has released in the last year, yet none of them are as much as an improvement over what I have / need for me to be willing to go purchase something new.

The more I look at the new HF G10, the more I see its potential as a fairly significant upgrade compared to their former top of the line HF S21.

A 2MP sensor optimized for video as opposed to an 8MP for both video and stills. Having both a focus ring in addition to the custom dial (both rings customizable). A waveform monitor!!! 16 variable zoom speeds (just like my XLH1S). Manual white balance adjustment via a Kelvin dial in 100k increments... finally!!! (just like my XLH1S).

Looks like a great small camera to use!

Canon says of the new sensor:

- Video resolution of 900 horizontal and 800 vertical TV lines, for Full HD video with professional precision
- A 25 percent improvement in low-light sensitivity with a minimum illumination rating of 1.5 Lux, Canon's lowest Lux rating to date in a consumer HD camcorder
- A 280 percent improvement in dynamic range for exceptional reproduction of both highlights and shadows

NAB could be a very interesting place to be in April if the technology leaps continued into the pro stuff.

The more I look at the new HF G10, the more I see its potential as a fairly significant upgrade compared to their former top of the line HF S21.

I completely agree with that Michael. I recently bought a Panasonic SD-700, and the image you get from it is astounding. I also have a XL-H1 (first model), and while its ergonomics can't be beat, the latest batch of consumer camcorders is taking turns around it if you look at image quality (resolution), framerates (1080p50), low-light performance and touch-screen ergonomics and lcd resolution.

What a difference 5 years make!

For this reason, I am now trying to find a way to shoot great stuff with these small camcorders instead of buying a $10,000 camcorder like I did a while back. Combined with the VDSLR developments, I think you can create awesome stuff with a combination of camcorder + VDSLR and some proper lenses. The ergonomics are where the challenges are with this type of gear. But also the opportunities, as I can get into places with a small camcorder my XL-H1 can't get to. And you can carry them always, everywhere.

Wonderful times indeed!

Here is the link on Canon's website:
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders/vixia_hf_g10#Overview

Seriously impressed by all its features, I hope they don't limit the manual controls too much. I work at Canon (office printer division), so I can get it at discount rate... which usually means 20-30% off the MSRP. But I am not fixed at Canon, I also like Panasonic gear a lot so I am eager to find out what they will show later today).

i wonder if the newly released canon xa10 could be set-up with a nanoflash?

if so, i also wonder if the nanoflash footage would still be limited to 24mbps?

the xa10 does have a mini hdmi out.

be well

rob

It is good to see that after years of Megapixels races on these camcorders we are finally getting back to what really matters, image quality (for video). I doubt many people shoot stills on a camcorder, I always considered it a gimmick. Also, most people view their stills on a computer or monitor nowadays, for which 1080p extracts will do perfectly fine. It also looks like camcorder manufacturers, after the VDSLR surge, need to add extra attention, features and resources to their camcorder line-ups, to keep them alive. Canon's is normally the most conservative of the bunch (and late to the party), so I am looking forward to the other player's camcorder offerings at CES 2011. I hope they also unveil their EVIL system, but I don't expect that to happen at this year's CES.

24mbps AVCHD and 4:2:0... so basically an XH A1 with a bit better low light, full 1920x1080 res and single CMOS vs 3CCD...

Ill stick with the XH A1 for now. shame canon did not develop an MXF codec CCD camera.

CCD technology is dead in the consumer market. All new camera's... DSLR, camcorder, mobile phone... everything is CMOS. So I don't see any company launching CCD based camera gear in the consumer/prosumer/professional market (only the high-end maybe).

More photos to be found in the press release linked above.

Hey Chris, I can't find any pictures in that press release link.

CCD technology is dead in the consumer market. All new camera's... DSLR, camcorder, mobile phone... everything is CMOS. So I don't see any company launching CCD based camera gear in the consumer/prosumer/professional market (only the high-end maybe).

Exactly. (I was going to go into it a little more, but don't think this is the place for a CCD vs CMOS debate.)

Good (Picture Quality); CCD; Cheap... Pick two

CMOS is deadly to people who shoot Blair Witch handheld films in night clubs with strobe lights. But I believe for the rest of us CMOS has been a helpful way to keep prices low, while increasing picture quality.

Does anyone know if this will have the assignable ring (aperture, zoom, focus) like the XF100? ALso will me varizoom lanc I use with my xh-a1 work with this as well?

Thanks!

I am a corporate communicator using video for our intranet. I have been hoping to upgrade from my HF10 something this summer or fall, and while the look and features of this camera appeal to me, the price is more than I would expect considering what $2,000 will get in other cameras.

That new WM wireless rig looks interesting, seamless audio recording from up to 164 feet away. Wonder how they worked that out .. what happens at 165 feet?

And look at those shapes, the talent will baulk at the size of the mic .. does a wired lav plug into it.
What about '2 way communication' .. the talent would have to wear an earpiece and the cameraman a mic. Those boxes look like stand alones, there must be a fair amount of Bluetooth flying about.

Like to know more about this .. $250 is a clue.

Cheers.

If BlueTooth mobile communication is a clue, I wouldn't want that technology in my wireless microphones. But I haven't tried it so we have to wait and see.

That new WM wireless rig looks interesting, seamless audio recording from up to 164 feet away. Wonder how they worked that out .. what happens at 165 feet?


Well - 164 feet is 50 meters, so this is probably just one of those conversion oddities. Bluetooth's got build in error correction in the audio profile so this is probably the line of sight distance, where they can guarantee error free transmission. Bluetooth operate in a frequency band with a lot of noise, so the milage might vary depending on the surroundings.

I have one of the Sony consumer wireless sets. It is fine up to 80 feet, and is quite an cost effective way of getting decent sound. It might not be up to Sennheiser standard, but it is cheaper and surely beats an on camera mic big time.

I think it also lacks the "little control thumbwheel" It's there. It's been moved, along with the assignable custom button, to the back of the camera body. See the 4th image down, in the press release linked at the top of this thread.

There is nothing stopping AVCHD from being recorded onto Compact Flash... What's stopping it is the AVCHD consortium itself. See http://www.avchd-info.org/format/index.html and http://www.avchd-info.org/press/20060713.html. The only flash memory card types specified by the AVCHD consortium are Secure Digital and Memory Stick.

One is Diet Coke, the other is Coke Zero. If you're referring to Canon XF as "Diet Coke" then you're lumping Sony XDCAM and Panasonic P2 HD in with that description as well, due to their similarities. I don't think everyone will share your opinion. If you said that the "Diet Coke" of these HD formats was HDV then I would agree with you on that.

Hey Chris, I can't find any pictures in that press release link.Fixed...

...don't think this is the place for a CCD vs CMOS debate.Correct, this isn't the place for it because such a debate doesn't accomplish anything -- it doesn't change the situation. The *reality* is that CMOS is where it's all going, and nothing we say here is going to affect that. CCD is dead, as has been previously pointed out. What we're going to see instead are improvements to CMOS such as flash band compensation and other developments.

Does anyone know if this will have the assignable ring (aperture, zoom, focus) like the XF100? ALso will me varizoom lanc I use with my xh-a1 work with this as well? Yes to both: yes to assignable ring and yes to wired remote control (the protocol formerly known as LANC -- same thing; different name). Hope this helps,

I believe they all use .MXF as the wrapper & MPEG-2 is the codec.

But the JVC HM100 & HM700 shoot in XDCam (MPEG-2 codec) in either a .MXF wrapper or a .MOV wrapper (built for FCP).

Codec vs. wrapper two very different & sometimes confusing things.
...

Zach,

FWIU, MPEG-2 <> MPEG-2 in many cases.

Hello everyone,

I've been out of the loop for the past couple years with regard to the trends and advances in video cam technology, but I decided it might be time to think about replacing my Sony HC9 miniDV cam. I've been reading about the latest offerings at CES this year and this Canon XA10 has really caught my attention for a number of reasons. I've owned 6 miniDV cams over the years. The last one I purchased was the Sony HC9 which in 2008 was considered one of the better consumer cams alongside a couple Canon models for under $1500. The AVCHD format was still relatively new a few years ago. I can recall a couple models that were available, but the miniDV tape format seemed to be already on the way out with everyone going to hard disk/flash. Nowadays, I'm seeing less and less of the miniDV format and more of the AVCHD. I always liked miniDV tapes because I didn't have the computer hard drive space to backup files and miniDV tapes were an instant archive. I just bought a brand new computer last month with huge drives and a Pioneer Blu-Ray burner so archiving digital footage would now be very easy for me to do. Considering 1 miniDV tape would only hold about an hour worth of footage, I can store much more material on blu-ray discs for much cheaper and much longer since losing quality over long periods of time shouldn't be an issue with a disc as compared to tape.

Basically, I'm kind of on the fence as to stay with the HC9 or upgrade to the XA10 (with a budget between $1500-2000). I would think that in the 3 years since I bought my HC9 that the video quality would have improved at least a little if not quite a bit with the new XA10. I use Sony Vegas 10 for editing so the miniDV vs. AVCHD format shouldn't be an issue with regard to editing. The 2 main things I've always disliked about the HC9 and the miniDV format has been transferring my footage to my computer in real time and also the lack of XLR inputs for external microphones. I solved the XLR input issue by simply adding a BeachTek XLR adapter. I'm not sure how fast footage can be transferred from the XA10 to a computer, but I'm sure it is faster than real time. I know the XA10 isn't available yet and hasn't been thoroughly reviewed, but it looks like a solid video cam from the specs and has the type of features I'm looking for with a budget between $1500-$2000. If I decide not to upgrade to the XA10, I'd probably just keep using my HC9 for another year to see what comes out in 2012. I've seen practically all of the other new video cams for 2011, and the XA10 was really the only one that I'd probably consider buying.

I'd love to hear some thoughts to help me decide on this potential upgrade.

Thanks!

What's stopping it is the AVCHD consortium itself. See AVCHD INFORMATION WEB SITE (http://www.avchd-info.org/format/index.html) and AVCHD INFORMATION WEB SITE (http://www.avchd-info.org/press/20060713.html). The only flash memory card types allowed by the AVCHD consortium are Secure Digital and Memory Stick.

Some thing I didn't know, thanks for correcting me & the info.

I was more saying... recording AVCHD onto a CF card is NOT like putting diesel into a regular gas engine. There is nothing in the nature of CF or AVCHD that would make the combo impossible. Thus, the only thing stopping AVCHD on CF cards is the consortium & manufactures.



If you're referring to Canon XF as "Diet Coke" then you're lumping Sony XDCAM and Panasonic P2 HD in with that description as well, due to their similarities. I don't think everyone will share your opinion. If you said that the "Diet Coke" of these HD formats was HDV then I would agree with you on that.


I wasn't meaning to go that deep. I really don't want to go into a debate about HDV = Diet Coke; BetaSP = Coke in a bottle from Mexico with real sugar; Pepsi = M2... but that does sound like it could be a humorous blog subject :-)

For the people who like Coke in a zero-calorie type... some people will choose Diet Coke, others Coke Zero & others Diet Coke with Splenda. There is no best zero-calorie Coke, just the best choice for the person who bought it.

Same thing for people looking to spend around $2k on a small HD video camera with pro features.... some will choose the Canon XA10, others will choose the JVC HM100 & others will choose the Panasonic HMC40. The best camera to buy, is the best camera for you. The worst camera is buy, is the camera that is best for someone else.

I use Sony Vegas 10 for editing so the miniDV vs. AVCHD format shouldn't be an issue with regard to editing.
actually I think that will be the only issue you will have after upgrade from HDV to AVCHD in general,
AVCHD is much heavier codec and takes a lot more processing power, but it also comes with solutions like cineform, plus tapeless workflow is a major advantage, so overall you'll gain more than loose.
Of course picture quality is improved since HC9, and looking at XA10/HF G10 it'll be an amazing camcorder and I can't wait to get one in my hands. I would certainly replace HC9 ( i used to own one) with XA10, but just in case wait for the footage comparison from TM900 and CX700.

Well - 164 feet is 50 meters, so this is probably just one of those conversion oddities. Bluetooth's got build in error correction in the audio profile so this is probably the line of sight distance, where they can guarantee error free transmission. Bluetooth operate in a frequency band with a lot of noise, so the milage might vary depending on the surroundings.

I have one of the Sony consumer wireless sets. It is fine up to 80 feet, and is quite an cost effective way of getting decent sound. It might not be up to Sennheiser standard, but it is cheaper and surely beats an on camera mic big time.

Thanks for that Jos .. the 2 WM illustrations end on don't show the controls, so there's more to come. Wonder if the mic copes with dual XLRs and 48volts .. might not for $250.

Cheers.

The Sony bluetooth wireless sets work surprisingly well - I've now modded a couple to have a hardwired lav mic for more versatile use - it would be NICE to have a input jack, but no such luck with the Sonys, though I did experiment with modding the latest ones that have an OUTPUT jack... but it won't work as an input when re-configured.

Hopefully Canon will put an input for a lav on the transmitter. It ooks like a minijack on top of the units. I doubt that they will go beyond a mini jack, as I think this mic is also an option for DSLRs, It is impossible to judge the size of the units, but they are probably the size of the Sony units, meaning that there is no room for anything like a XLR.

In my opinion there is a 200 USD sweetspot for wireless prosumer wireless mics. I have only an occasional need to for wireless mics, meaning that an investment in a Sennheiser kits is unrealistic. And I can easily live with prosumer build quality and mini jack I/O.

As well as all the very detailed XA10 information on the Canon USA website that was posted at the start of CES 2011, see here:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/professional_camcorders/xa10

I have also just found this Canon overview:

Canon Digital Learning Center - The XA10: Canon's Smallest and Lightest Pro Camcorder (http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=3586)

Happy reading!

There are some lovely new exciting features about the XA10, but why does Canon seem to also go backward in some things.
I have enjoyed using the little HFS100 on a number of paid jobs, and getting some excellent images from it.
That particular camera had a larger chip than this new model, with many more pixels, allowing an intergral x1.7 "tele" function to be used which wasn't half bad. It looks like I'll need to purchase a separate tele-converter for the XA10...

Its all about compromise with these cams. Canon saw that they wanted to maximize video quality this time around over features like hi res photos and the like. So using the 2.07MP chip allows for that.

The slightly higher yet much denser pixel packed sensor on the HFS100 allowed for that tele function as it was sampling a smaller section of the sensor.

The new sensor cannot do this because of its final native 1920X1080 size. But this trade off should increase overall image quality by a fairly significant amount over last years models.

All the gaps in the line feel like they have been filled now. Only thing left now is at the very high-end, with a Canon XL successor needed.
The gap I see is between XF100 and XF300. I'd like to see something about the size and weight of the XF100 with a longer zoom lens, even if it did lose a little at the wide end. XF300 may be a lovely camera, but it's too big and too pricey...

So is the Canon XA10 the first camera to suggest shots?

Story Creator is a unique function of the XA10 Camcorder that allows the camera to guide users in the creation of different video clips to assemble into a finished story during post-production. With this feature enabled the user can choose from a variety of different scenarios that they may be shooting including travel, kids and pets, party, ceremonies and events, and video blogging. The XA10 will suggest specific shots to tell the story and helps the user keep them organized.

from: Canon Digital Learning Center - The XA10: Canon's Smallest and Lightest Pro Camcorder (http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=3586)

Good Grief !!

Am I missing something, or does the XA10 indeed lack the ability to record 720p60? That's a deal-breaker for me.

Sorry, no 720p mode in the XA10.