Does anyone have a recommendation for a simple, light and compact F3 rig for ENG/EFP style shooting? I am thinking about a simple plate with short rails, a couple handles and a compact shoulder pad. Also, I am wondering if there is an opportunity to built a viewfinder adaptor (aka EX3) that would fit on the LCD and allow for most of the F3 body weight to sit on the cameraman's shoulder.

I'm looking for solution to the same problem. Short rails, shoulder pad, counter balance battery plate, quick mount to tripod, easy to store. Price $400-$800. Is anybody working on one?

You will be hard pressed to find a general rails solution for that price range although probably a couple of people will build a rails/baseplate/shoulder mount solution specifically for the F3 and you will see it advertised here, no doubt.

There is the Hoodman Loupe for the EX1 that should work without modfiication but the LCD screen is so far back that you will have to put a rails shoulder device on the camera to make it truly comfortable to use for any length of time...

EX KIT PRO-Hoodman Corporation (http://www.hoodmanusa.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HEXKP)

I think Genus are looking at a new camera plate that will allow their DSLR shoulder mount to be used with the F3.

Genus Shoulder Mount System - Genus Video and DSLR products (http://www.genustech.tv/shoulder-mounts/genus-shoulder-mount-system.html)

There is the Hoodman Loupe for the EX1 that should work without modfiication

I've already tried the Hoodman Loupe with an F3 and it didn't work. If you compare the design of an EX1 to an F3, you'll notice that the LCD is in an entirely different position. That difference is enough to make the Hoodman unusable on the F3. However, I'm sure Hoodman and other manufacturers will design something that will work comfortably.

It would be great to see a sturdy, clip-on LCD viewfinder adaptor that could be flipped in and out like the PMW-350 color viewfinder (see attached pic). When running and gunning with a wide lens, I prefer to look at the LCD but when on the sticks or when using longer lenses, I'd want to be more precise and look at my shots through a good viewfinder. I don't like the Hoodman design because it does not allow that kind of flexibility.

This would fall right within Zacuto's capability. Their Z-Finder product is excellent and very well made.

T.

Not many people recommend them due to cost, but the Zacuto 'Newsman' rig is great. I am waiting for my Zacuto rig to arrive this week but I added a few extra pieces to the back to hold V-mount batteries and wireless receivers in addition to a Varizoom zoom controller. With an EX3 and Dedo LEDzilla, 2 wireless receivers and an 88whr battery, the rig is almost perfectly balanced. Plus, the Zacuto has a lifetime warranty and really should be considered an investment because it will outlast all other video gear, not to mention that it holds resale value better than other video gear.

Steve - I've been looking at that. Do you know if the "zoffset" is fixed in a position or if the offset hight and sideshift can be adjusted? The Zacuto website is not clear on that.

Ola,

Are you looking to use the Offset? If so, it appears that only the height is adjustable; however, adjusting the height slightly adjusts the length. I think this is the best picture of the zoffset.

This looks wonderful!

Creative Video - Features Sony PMW-F3 review (http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=article/Sony+PMW-F3+review)

nevermind, read the article. doh.

That particular rig set up looks rather front heavy. Moving the V/F plus the shoulder pad a bit further forward would improve the balance.

With all due respect, I do not know if I would be brave enough to run and gun with this thing. I am not sure that it would fit my personal opinion of an ENG camera. From the discussions, focusing this thing correctly is a task, VF is to small and LCD not sufficient for quick focus. Add to that it's very shallow DOF and it would be at the bottom of my list. And then there is the pricing, it is 13k without glass and other options, with glass it is approaching the price of some pretty nice fully equipped ready to shoot cameras.

It's strange that CREATIVE VIDEO did the test 5 days ago and they still didn't know that the kit lenses with the F3 are all PL mount and not F mount as they stated in the review.
Don't they read the net??

That in no way is a handheld rig, not with an Optimo 15-40 built like that. I suspect he put the shoulder pad on for yucks, but never intended to actually shoulder it like that. Same with the O'Connor ogrips up front.

I saw that eyepiece at an AF100 demo last week, and immediately thought of it for the F3 for handheld.

Handheld with this thing is gonna be awkward. Not many lenses are going to encourage "supporting the whole camera in front of you while using the rear eyepiece" method.

I have developed a shoulder system for the AF100, out now.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-avccam-ag-af100-camcorder/490851-affordable-simple-af-100-shoulder-bracket-battery-plate.html#post1612333

I have an F3 on order and I will make a shoulder kit for it as well, probably similar. This kit will also be custom made for the NanoFlash and future CD products.

The F3 kit will be available wit AB Gold mount or IDX V-mount plates.

I am also about to ship my rail system that is independent of the shoulder/battery system. But will interface with it.

I will post here when I have a BETA version for testing available.

Some photos of the AF100 setup.

Sounds good Olef. Your work is always very nice and very reasonably priced. The F3 has a slightly different conguration to the AF100. Perhaps the rig could be adjustable so if used with a Zacuto Z-finder, the large side-mounted LCD can be used as the VF, in a similar way to the Sony EX3.

I am going to use the F3 for doco and EFP style work and need a rig that is light, practicle, compact and can be taken on and off a tripod easily. I am looking at assembling a system from parts manufactured by Vocas Systems BV. Although I am ordering the F3 with the 3-prime set, I will most likely use a combination of Nikon DX zoom lenses (17-55 F2.8 and 50-200 F3.5) and older Nikon SLR lenses (for the long end) using MTF's Nikon adaptor. Also, I will definitely use an external EVF such as Zacuto's EVF Z-Finder or Cineroid's one. I think this will give me much more better shooting/focusin accuracy and better balance because with the EFV mounted forward, I'll be able to better balance the camera on the shoulder mount. I am not planning to use a follow focus or matte box for EFP style work but will eventually when using PL lenses. So, this is what I have in mind from Vocas:

- 0350-0600 Rail support “Pro"
- 0390-0002 Handgrip set
- 0370-0001 15mm shoulder support
- 0370-0100 battery adapter plate (I am planning to power the camera and EVF from a single lithium V-Mount battery which will give me plenty of power for a day and help balance the rig)

Here is the link to Vocas products catalog
http://www.vocas.com/pdf/Vocas%20Systems%20catalog.pdf

Any thoughts?

Thierry.

Hi Theirry,

I am familiar with Vocas's incredibly light matteboxes but not their rails plates and adapters which look very good.

The rails support device looks very good and a lot lighter than a lot of the other solutions out there. One thing I would be thinking about is height adjustment. It doesn't look like it can go up or down to any great extent so you would be looking a riser for your heavier lenses or a mattebox that needs some gross adjustment for bigger lenses and so on. The options aren't all that great and most are quite heavy. I still am very attracted to this rails plate despite what I have said. I wouldn't preclude using a mattebox even though initially you do not plan on it. You want your baseplate to accommodate your needs now and in the future.

You should have a look at a video clip that Andy Shipsides has posted on the Able Cine Tech blog that shows an AF-100 kitted out with a shoulder mount solution. Some of the items are outrageously expensive but many of the options are affordable and the best on the market from a practicality standpoint.

AF100 Rigging: PL Mount Configuration | CineTechnica (http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/01/21/af100-rigging-pl-mount-configuration/)

Any thoughts? YES.

Have you tested that Vocas rig yet? I ask because my local Abel Cine has both that Vocas rig and the Zacuto Newsman rig (without offset bracket) and I greatly preferred the Zacuto, which is why I now have it for my EX3. With the Zacuto, I can do so much more due to it being modular. I have the Red Plate, Double Mount, Wireless Plate and Switronix V-mount plate.

DoubleMount, V3, includes 7" rods - Zacuto (http://store.zacuto.com/doublemount-v3-includes-7-rods.html)
Red Plate, V3 - Zacuto (http://store.zacuto.com/red-plate-v3.html)
Wireless Plate - Zacuto (http://store.zacuto.com/wireless-plate.html)

The Zacuto's hand grips are the perfect length to alleviate any stress on my back (I have a bad back).

I can stick 2 wireless receivers on the back; mount a nanoFlash to the rear EX3 shoe; use a Swit v-mount battery; use a 3.5lb weight on the very back; have a SolaENG 3 on the front shoe.

When I get the F3, I can easily attach a number of arms from Zacuto in various places for a 7" LCD.

And yes, I agree that the Zacuto parts are expensive but they have a lifetime warranty and hold their resale value very well.

I wonder if the new electronic Zacuto viewfinder would work, attached with a suitable Zacuto mount? The built-in LCD on the F3 is probably too close to the body and low to use with a traditional Z-Finder.

I've spent some serious time trying to figure out a good solution to do hand held with my EX1 and also to plan for the arrival of my F3. I've been using the chinese "el cheapo" shoulder mount for almost three years and it's OK but not good. In the last couple of weeks I've tried the Genus hand held rig and also tried configuring a Zacuto shoulder rig with batteries as counter weights.

My conclusion is that no matter what I try it's either unbalanced (front heavy) or very long and heavy. I finally decided to go about the problem in an entierly different way. I found the Turtle X from Easyrig (EasyRig (http://easyrig.se/)). It's almost laughably simple in it's concept but it works remarkably well. I've only heard good things about it from people who have used it extensively but I have myself only tried it in a shop and for 30 minutes in the field. So far it feels very good!

I've got my camera set up on Zacuto rails and I've ordered a Zacuto follow focus, a Genus Mattebox and a single Zacuto hand grip to get my right hand to a more comfortable position. Hopefully combined with the Easyrig this will be a very comfortable hand held rig for my F3.

Also, a very interesting rig from Sony here:

http://ws.sel.sony.com/PIPWebServices/RetrievePublicAsset/StepID/SEL-asset-219288/original/vctsp1bp_sp2bp_v2464.pdf

And a demo on YouTube here:
YouTube - SONY ?????????? VCT-SP2BP???? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAQiKVXxA2o)

I like the fact that it is primarely designed to go between shoulder and tripod and looks pretty slick and compact. As anyone tried it?

Thierry.

I'm not a big fan of any rig that puts the camera out in front of you.. Just too heavy and especially with a zoom lens.

I put together this for a test shoot (sorry for the low quality pics)

Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2cu4bj - Shared by AndyShipsides (http://yfrog.com/h2cu4bj)
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h4ftkbhj - Shared by AndyShipsides (http://yfrog.com/h4ftkbhj)
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2250ynj - Shared by AndyShipsides (http://yfrog.com/h2250ynj)

Combines a base plate, grips, EVF, follow focus, and a battery plate in the back. It felt good on the shoulder even with the small Optimo zoom. By putting the viewfinder to the side and putting thecamera on your shoulder, the whole rig become more useable.

You should have a look at a video clip that Andy Shipsides has posted on the Able Cine Tech blog that shows an AF-100 kitted out with a shoulder mount solution. Some of the items are outrageously expensive but many of the options are affordable and the best on the market from a practicality standpoint.

AF100 Rigging: PL Mount Configuration | CineTechnica (http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/01/21/af100-rigging-pl-mount-configuration/)

I missed your mention Andrew..what I posted above is basically the same rig with the F3 on it.

I'm not a big fan of any rig that puts the camera out in front of you.. Just too heavy and especially with a zoom lens.

I put together this for a test shoot (sorry for the low quality pics)

Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2cu4bj - Shared by AndyShipsides (http://yfrog.com/h2cu4bj)
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h4ftkbhj - Shared by AndyShipsides (http://yfrog.com/h4ftkbhj)
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2250ynj - Shared by AndyShipsides (http://yfrog.com/h2250ynj)

Combines a base plate, grips, EVF, follow focus, and a battery plate in the back. It felt good on the shoulder even with the small Optimo zoom. By putting the viewfinder to the side and putting thecamera on your shoulder, the whole rig become more useable.

I'd like to see that finder even farther forward, on something other than a noga arm...anybody in the early days of the Red EVF learned that finders on noga arms are for the birds, the forces loosen the arm and it moves around. The flipout LCD needs to be right by your cheek.

EVF bracket opportunity for VFGadgets.com!

Nate, I agree a viewfinder bracket of some kind would be best.

I'd like to see that finder even farther forward, on something other than a noga arm...anybody in the early days of the Red EVF learned that finders on noga arms are for the birds, the forces loosen the arm and it moves around. The flipout LCD needs to be right by your cheek.

EVF bracket opportunity for VFGadgets.com!

Nate

After playing I ended up doing the same thing with my EVF to try and get it lower. I'm going to gave David at VF a call to look into it. Also, I like what exmount.com did for their EX 3 shoulder mount. I hope they might be able to adapt it for the F3. Its all one piece with a built in shoulder pad that snaps into a Sony plate like some are used to on broadcast cameras

Hi Andy,

I picked up GENUS shoulder pad a couple of weeks ago not realizing the shoulder pad does not come with the rails mounting hardware. It's just the pad.

Does Abel Cine Tech sell the bits that attach to the GENUS shoulder pad? Here are the GENUS part numbers for the missing bits, if this is of any help.


SKU/Order Codes:

GCSM-LOK1/4
Lock-Off Knobs 1/4"

GCSM-ADP
Universal Clip-On Adaptor with Lock-off Knob

EVF bracket opportunity for VFGadgets.com!

Amen to that.

Andy...think you guys can pull that off?

I'm not a big fan of any rig that puts the camera out in front of you.. Just too heavy and especially with a zoom lens.

I put together this for a test shoot (sorry for the low quality pics)

Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2cu4bj - Shared by AndyShipsides (http://yfrog.com/h2cu4bj)
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h4ftkbhj - Shared by AndyShipsides (http://yfrog.com/h4ftkbhj)
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2250ynj - Shared by AndyShipsides (http://yfrog.com/h2250ynj)


Hey Andy,

To me, that rig and the handles do not look comfortable because the right arm is so close to the body. I have the entire Zacuto newsman rig with doublemount and red plate at the rear and my rig with an EX3 is soooo comfortable with little to no stress on my back (I have a bad back). All the weight is placed on my biceps and a little on my shoulder. Any chance you can assemble a similar rig with the F3 and snap a photo for us?

Thanks

Andrew: We can get those parts for you no problem. Abel is closed on Monday so I'll get you more info on Tuesday.

John: That is a rig from Kinomatik out of Germany, we worked with them in the past with their Movietube products. I'm interested in it and will try to find out pricing.

Steve: Zacuto snapped some pictures with the F3 here - Sony F3 Video & Kits (http://www.zacuto.com/sony-f3) - or are you looking to see a similar rig to mine with a Zacuto baseplate and grips?

Andy,

The video in that link is exactly what I was looking for. Now I must give Kari some grief when she gets back from her trip :)

Thanks

I'm not a big fan of any rig that puts the camera out in front of you.. Just too heavy and especially with a zoom lens.

I put together this for a test shoot (sorry for the low quality pics)

Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2cu4bj - Shared by AndyShipsides (http://yfrog.com/h2cu4bj)
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h4ftkbhj - Shared by AndyShipsides (http://yfrog.com/h4ftkbhj)
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2250ynj - Shared by AndyShipsides (http://yfrog.com/h2250ynj)

Combines a base plate, grips, EVF, follow focus, and a battery plate in the back. It felt good on the shoulder even with the small Optimo zoom. By putting the viewfinder to the side and putting thecamera on your shoulder, the whole rig become more useable.

Andy,

Understand. But I want to use the F3 for doco and news mag (and probably some news work too...), and I need a rig that:

1. Let me switch easily from tripod to shoulder
2. Is light and compact (as comfortable the Zacuto is, it is way to much rig for my taste)
3. Let me take some low shots by holding the camera by its handle (rig is either light enough or camera can be unmounted from rig)

I think I'd like to have the F3 body over the shoulder and use an EVF. I am planning to use the MTF Nikon mount with Sigma DC series lenses for weight and conveniency. I like Vocas's approach but it does not seem as if the shoulder pad can be mounted under the F3 body so it may end up being quite front heavy.

So, it looks as if all bets are open for F3 rigs and piecing something from various manufacturers may be the way to go. In that regard, it would be great if you could come out with specific combinations and list items and pricing?

Thanks for your input.

Thierry.

Thierry,

For me, my Zacuto rig and my EX3 work great for ENG work where I have it on the tripod most of the time but need to quickly remove it for shoulder shooting. I now leave my EX3 on the Zacuto rig 99% of the time.

I have rented the RedRockMicro shoulder mount a few times and it can't even compare to my Zacuto rig.

I, too, will be using the F3 for some ENG and event work.

1) At least with my Sachtler FSB 8, going from tripod to shoulder is quick and easy. The only thing easier is getting the Sony VCT plate and Zacuto V-wedge.

2) The Zacuto rods quickly and easily unscrew. It takes me less than 5mins to disassemble my rig and reassemble it.

3) Remove the handles in a few seconds and a camera can be held low.

Steve,

Can you post pics and a list of components used in your Zacuto's rig. I am not sure exactly what you have but would love to check it out. What lenses are you planning to use on the F3 for ENG/EFP style work?

Best,

T.

So, it looks as if all bets are open for F3 rigs and piecing something from various manufacturers may be the way to go. In that regard, it would be great if you could come out with specific combinations and list items and pricing?

Thanks for your input.

Thierry.

Good idea, I'll put the kit together and list it on our site.

I really like the Vocas stuff too. It's pricey but the built quality is quite amazing. The only problem I forsee is that the shoulder pad does not seem to be able to sit underneath the camera body but instead to the back. See Vocas rig for Panasonic AF100 bellow:
https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D456513_6308368_676509

So, it would make for quite a front heavy rig?

Thierry.

That's what I am going for. Vocas shoulder rig with MB-255 mate box system and MFC-1 follow focus.
http://twitpic.com/43eflr

Thierry.

That's what I am going for. Vocas shoulder rig with MB-255 mate box system and MFC-1 follow focus.
http://twitpic.com/43eflr

Thierry.

You will have a hard time pulling focus by yourself with that rig. Both hands needed to hold all that weight out front.

True with heavy PL lenses but with the lighter Sony's, I dont' expect this to be much of a problem. Also, I'll be using the F3 quite a bit with very light SLR lenses with no follow focus. I am eventually planning to add an EVF and slide the shoulder pad almost under the F3 body which will help balancing a lot when usign heavier lenses.

T.

Steve,
Can you post pics and a list of components used in your Zacuto's rig. I am not sure exactly what you have but would love to check it out. What lenses are you planning to use on the F3 for ENG/EFP style work?


Here are some images of my rig. I only had my EX1 to shoot video and take screen grabs for these images.

The list of parts:
1) Zacuto Newsman Baseplate Kit
2) DoubleMount w/ 7" Rods
3) Red Plate
4) Wireless Plate
5) Switronix GP-S V-mount plate
6) Wireless Bracket (this was given to me by a friend)
7) Zacuto 24" Male D-tap to Female D-tap and Camera Power "XP-EX-Z24"

For perfect balance with a Dedo LEDzilla on front, nanoFlash and wireless receiver on a t-bar on the rear shoe, an 88whr Swit battery and the 3.5lb weight on the back.

This rig has been the savior for my back. Hand holding an EX3 or EX1 for 10 minutes starts my back pain whereas I have gone over an hour with this Zacuto rig with zero back pain. For me, this is worth every dollar. Another big plus for Zacuto gear is the lifetime warranty and great resale value in addition to being modular with thousands of possible setups.

I keep the EX3 on this rig all the time and use a Sachtler FSB 8 which handles the weight without a problem but my FSB 6 cannot handle the weight. For most of the time, I do not use the 3.5lb weight and I use a Litepanels SolaENG 3 rather than the Dedo most of the time.

Looks like a well balance rig but with the F3 viewfinder behing far in the back, you'll probably have to add an EVF to the side for this to work.

Good pics though, thanks for sharing those.

Thierry.