I have a few questions:

1) I want to load my comp with 6 internal SATA drives. My motherboard accomodates two built-in SATA conections right on the motherboard itself for the first two SATA drives (a 40 gig system drive and 200 gig data drive) and for the other four data drives (they will be 4, 250 gig SATA data drives) I have to add two PCA SATA add on cards. Here's the question: Will the 4 additional SATA drives show up on my BIOS configuration for manual setup or will they just automatically configure?

2) As part of my boot sequence in my BIOS, can I use an external DVD burner connected via USB cable? I ask this because I'd rather use the internal space for hard drives and use the USB connection for an external DVD burner.

Thanks!

I have a few questions:

...

2) As part of my boot sequence in my BIOS, can I use an external DVD burner connected via USB cable? I ask this because I'd rather use the internal space for hard drives and use the USB connection for an external DVD burner.

Thanks!
Why would you want to include a DVD burner as a boot device? The boot device is where the operating system files required for system startup are located and it would be very weird to put them on DVD.

Wouldn't I want to include the DVD burner as a boot device if, for some reason, I have to re-install my operating system for a fresh start?

1) First question - why don't you get a 4 port controller instead of two 2-port controllers?

Third party controllers have their own BIOS for configuration. After they are configured on that BIOS, you have to tell the motherboard's BIOS where to put them in the boot order, etc. It can get messy having several different hard drive controllers in the computer, but it does work.

2) Yes, you can use an external USB optical drive to boot off of, but why not just connect an internal optical drive to the IDE ports? You aren't going to be using them with all of these SATA drives.

And, yes, you do always want to have an optical drive in the line as a boot device before the boot hard drive. You'll undoubtedly need to boot off of CD's at some point for system restoration or diagnostics. Every computer should be set up that way.

<<2) Yes, you can use an external USB optical drive to boot off of, but why not just connect an internal optical drive to the IDE ports? You aren't going to be using them with all of these SATA drives. >>


Edward:

Actually, I am going to use all six of my internal bays with 6 SATA drives. I am installing two PCI SATA add-in cards to connect four additional 250 gig SATA hard drives. Can I configure an external DVD drive via USB port into my boot sequence? Why do you advise against it? I come up with these ideas but look forward to others to help me prevent disaster!

Thanks

I guess it's all depends on size of your case. While a full tower can accomodate 6HDD + DVD, mids won't. I would add HDD fans and addtional case fans if you have any spots for them. 6 drives will heat up your office, so you won't need furnice for most time of the year :)

You definitely don't have the right case if you are using all of your bays up and can't fit an optical drive. A 6 hard drive configuration is not that uncommon for us. A boot drive, a 4-drive RAID 5 array, and a separate export drive is pretty standard for our Avid Xpress Studio configs. But you must get an appropriate chassis. We've been using Lian Li PC-61 for years, which has room for all of those drive, plus plenty of optical drives - also can consider Lian Li V2000b - or Lian Li V1000b - These case are made to hold lots of drives. We now switched over to Supermicro chasses with hot-swappable bays built into them. All of these enclosures are made to hold lots of drives and that's what you need.

But, regardless of all of that, YES you can use a USB external drive to boot from and its no problem.

Ed:

Here's what I have:

Dell 670 Precision Workstation, Windows XP 64 Bit O/S.

I have two main drive bay compartments: The first bay can accommodate three internal hard drives perfectly and the second one can accommodate three larger drives (the larger drives must be the DVD and CD players) for a total of six internal drives. You see, in order for me to fit my three internal hard drives in the bigger bay area, I have to buy a hard drive mounting kits to fit the smaller drives in the bigger bay. I hope I am not confusing anybody here.

Here is how I want my setup to be:

(1) 40 gig system drive
(5) 250 gig data drives
(1) External DVD Burner connected via USB cable

So you say this can be accomplished with no forseeable problems? Keep in mind that since my case will be filled with nothing but SATA drives, the IDE connections on my motherboard will not be used at all.

OK.. well physically you obviously can fit it all. BUT, it's going to be ungodly hot. That chassis is not made for that. (I'll try not to make any blatant anti-dell comments).

I think that configuration would result in overheating/underclocking/shutting-down of the processor and/or failure of the hard drives. Honestly.

Just my luck! Maybe I'll point a strong fan into the side cooling vents?

Maybe you can just put it in the refrigerator.

HA! Good one! Although, I used to have a Gateway I switched to Dell since I needed a new machine and the price was right. I think the processors are liquid cooled because I saw tubes snaking out from around the dual CPU area. Besides, dontcha think Dell engineered their case to handle 6 drives if they made the room? I certainly hope so. I just bought these drives and I'd hate to have to send them back!

JEEZ Ed! You're killing me here! I had such a nice "pie-in-the-sky" feeling about popping in all those nifty SATAs!

How about this:

Go to the dell website, and look at the configurator for your computer. See what's the maximum # of hard drives you can configure in there. My guess is that it's 3 or 4. That's how many hard drives the computer is designed for.

You may even be able to sneak another drive or two over that, but the system is not designed for that. There's a chance that won't fly.

2- Have you looked into 500GB drives?
EXAMPLE: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822147008

3- In my experience, my case has no airflow over the drives. With two drives stacked on top of each other, the top overheated and would fail when it was hot.
So if you have a situation where the cooling on your hard drive is really bad (i.e. the 5.25" bays may not be that great for cooling if there's no airflow there) then you should really watch out.

I'm doing you a favor. Really. Hard drive failure is messy. That's why we have all of our nifty raid systems for protection.

Was the price really right for that Dell system? This is where I can point a little bit at the cookie-cutter, off-the-shelf type of systems they build. That's why I really don't ever argue with people when they start throwing Delll pricing with me. You get what you pay for.

Now, if I can try and be constructive about your problem I might have some suggestions...

First, if you already have these drives and the system and you are desperate, put it together and leave the side panel off. That might be enough to keep it cool for the time being, if 'time' is what you might need to make it work.

Second, there are products on the market that are sort of little enclosures that you can mount your hard drives in, which in turn mount in 5.25" bays. Why don't you pick up a few of those instead of the adapter kits. Those enclosures have all kinds of fans and things to keep the drive cool.... Problem at that point will start to become NOISE.

Third, you can hack some fans in your side panel to put some air on the drives. This obviously will only work if you are mechanicly inclined. A metal keyhole saw does the job beautifully.

Another consideration... does this quality Dell power supply have the juice to support all of these hard drives and fans? Hmmm... I don't think you can throw a wattage number at me either to support a positive answer. I can buy 600 watt power supplies for $30 and $300. There's a difference.

Another option for you... throw those drives in an external Firewire enclosure. Then at least you can use them and stop trying to make this Dell do what it won't do.

My Fellow Comrades:

All very good points. You've given me much food for thought. My case has large vents on top, front and back. Inside now are four drives plus a DVD burner and after over an hour's use, I feel no heat pouring out of any of the vents. Actually, the vents feel surprisingly cool! Is that a good judge of interior heat buildup? I don't know. I may be oversimplifying it.

My best bet is to call a Dell tech and ask. Of course, I must be wary of his answer since he is a Dell tech and might tell me anything I want to hear ("Ohhh sure, champ! You can load up that little baby with all the drives you want! Won't hurt a thing! You can't damage this little baby!")

I will make the call and let you guys know. Thanks for taking the time to deal with a computer moron like me.

Hugh

Another option for you... throw those drives in an external Firewire enclosure.

Quite a number of people seem to find that their Lacie drive failed, or that their firewire drive is dropping frames.

There are some firewire drives which don't have fans in them, and I suspect the drive gets really hot just by placing my hand on the case.


2- Hugh: You can use Speedfan to check the temperatures of your drive. They should all be below 45C or so.

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download337.html Just a download site, not the official one

Thanks Glenn. I will do that. In the meantime, a Dell tech advised me that 6 SATAs in my case with the 650 watt power supply will not overheat since they are spinning at 7200 rpm. She added that SCSI drives may be a bit too much for my case since they spin at 10,000. Hmmm.

SOOooooo... I jotted down my technical help "case number" and will see what's what. If there's a problem I can always call back and raise holy hell citing my case number and the advice given.

By the way, I paid extra for the Dell "Gold Plan" where the salesperson advised me that I get a "special" phone number and a special express service code that entitles me to talk to a "real" Dell tech in the continental United States with a hold time guaranteed to be less than five minutes. I wonder how much bullshit that is? What really frosts my balls is why these companies make you pay extra for what they should be giving you just for buying their product. Sheesh!

OH and one more thing: The hard drives I bought from TigerDirect.com had fantastic prices and are considered "OEM". The salesperson told me merchandise marked "OEM" are plain box hard drives without software or the cables and fancy packaging that usually comes with the same hard drive that costs more. You guys don't think I am being sold grey market stuff, do you?

You aren't being sold grey market stuff. What they told you is true, but what they DIDN'T tell you is that OEM parts also have a reduced warranty. Sometimes down to days.

That was BS about the 7,200 rpm drives being fine.

If you are willing to chance it, I bet that 'case number' was a good idea. Might even want to try and call them, tell them you put all the drives in, and one overheated, and see what they do... But if you didn't buy the drives from them, what CAN they do? They aren't going to buy you new hard drives if it wasn't their parts.

Edwardo:

I have the nagging feeling that instead of getting a barely English-speaking individual in some other part of the world who attempts to help me by reading off of a list of what to tell me when I respond with "this or that", I have paid extra for an English speaking person in the United States who attempts to help me by reading off of a list of what to tell me when I say "this or that". Business in this country has become so sneaky and insidious.

<<sigh>>

The guy did tell me the warranty was reduced. But the hard drives are factory new, right?

Sometimes retail versions of a product come with a reduced warranty, so the store can upsell you on a service protection plan.
Sometimes the retail version of a printer doesn't come with a USB cable so the store can sell you an overpriced USB cable.
Go figure.

The websites should say what the warranty for an OEM hard drive is. Seagate I believe is 5 years, most of the others around 1-3 years. With WD, it depends on the version you buy.

OEM hard drives are new, not refurbished. Refurbished drives are marked as such (refurbished drives typically have a 90 day warranty or more).

2- There are some rebate deals that can be cheaper than buying at non-rebate prices from tigerdirect/newegg/zipzoomfly/monarch. Check hot deals sites for your country. Big chain stores usually run them.

3- I think putting one drive in one of the 5.25" bays should be ok. You can check temps with Speedfan. Two may not fly... I wouldn't know.

Thanks, Chan the Man! The bays are much bigger than the drives (hence my having to install them with adapters). Plenty of airflow on the sides.

I saw a reference to an external SATA enclosure once -- I don't know how they work, but that might be an option as well.

Glenn, 45C still sounds awfully hot (my processor runs cooler than that). Any suggestions on an ideal operating temperature?

Another way to check if they are factory new vs. refurbished is to check the part number and/or serial number. These can be cross referenced with the manufacturer.

I saw a reference to an external SATA enclosure once -- I don't know how they work, but that might be an option as well.
I have a SATA drive in an external SATA enclosure that I use for backing up my projects. Since it is connected by a SATA connection to my computer it's just as fast as my internal drives (important with the huge amount of material that has to be backed up).

At this point I don't know of any companies selling external SATA drives, so one has to buy the SATA enclosures and drives and put them together themselves. Also, no computers I know of have external SATA ports. The SATA enclosure I purchased, an Apricorn EZ Bus DTS, comes with a PCI card that has one external and one internal SATA ports.

Also, no computers I know of have external SATA ports. The SATA enclosure I purchased, an Apricorn EZ Bus DTS, comes with a PCI card that has one external and one internal SATA ports.

You mean no computer comes with an external port ON-BOARD. You obviously have a computer with an external SATA port. It's all a matter of what controller you buy.

There are also some pretty nifty things on the market that are PCI slot covers with an "adapter" that lets you plug internal SATA cables into it, then you can plug in another SATA cable externally. The alternative to just leaving a PCI cover off and routing cables through the open hole (which would work as well).

This business with external SATA drives is referred to as "DAS" (Direct Attached Storage). Same thing as having a SCSI card with an external port, and plugging a box full of SCSI drives into it. This is probably something many of you in higher-end Post situations have seen. The difference with SATA is that it's a different type of bus, with a significant different being that you can only have one device on a channel. SCSI can hold a whole slew, and you can also connect directly to external controllers as well, all of which is better suited for a DAS array.

You mean no computer comes with an external port ON-BOARD.
Yes, that's what I meant.
You obviously have a computer with an external SATA port.
Only because I added them (although I custom built my computer in the first place). Still, I know of no commercial computers that come preconfigured with external SATA ports.