I am now using an old mini tape unit, 17 years old and am looking very hard at the VG10. Many forums out there which ironically were written prior to the release slammed this consumer camera for short comings and some stated for the extra get the Z5 (ALMOST 2 TIMES THE PRICE). These two units are not even in the same class of camera. The main purpose for the purchase will be outdoor filming, dawn to dusk and the video put to DVD's. I am new to post production edit work and this will be my first serious camera. Should I buy this or get an older prosumer i.e.; GH1 or GH2 or XL2 which can be had second hand for less until I know more about what I'm doing. Again I must state that I am new to this and am not at the knowledge level of many of you.

Dino

My advise - if you can wait till CES/NAB - wait, CES is almost here; if you want new camera now - get Panasonic TM700, 'at least untill you know what are you doing', you will not have any regrets and for sure it has better picture than XL2
compare to VG10 you will loose shallow depth of field, (still doable with TM700, just takes some walking :)
and amazing white balance that VG10 has, but you will gain other things like power zoom, autofocus, focus assist and OIS, well VG 10 has them too, except for power zoom and focus assist, but only if you use e-mount lenses, and those are crap for the price;
even if VG10 would cost the same as TM700, I would choose Panasonic any day, and considering 2.5x price difference - well, that's me:)
anyways you need to try it to have a feel of the camera you've been looking hard at, I did, and i just wanted share my experience.
best.

I'd go to a specialist retailer that has decent test facilities and spend some hands on time with the VG10 and some of the high end consumer camcorders in the same price range. The VG10 does seem to have something of a marmite effect on users -people either love it or hate it. Personally, I Iove it :)

I don't recommend the VG10 in this case. It's a fine camera but from what I can tell (I'm not sure tho), not the right one in this case. In the big picture, you are taking a big leap from the old days of shooting and watching on tape to modern day shooting, loading onto a computer, editing and sharing.

Are you ready for it? Is your computer ready? Do you just want to replace your old camera and handle video the same way or go all the way to how video is handled nowadays?

The one thing I do recommend given where you are and what you said: Skip Tape. Go to a solid state camera.

I'd find it pretty hard to recomment the VG10 - it just doesn't seem to fall into any one category of camera with defining strengths.

If you are looking for a camcorder-style camera with power zoom then follow Buba's advice and go for a TM700. If however, you were looking for a larger sensor, interchangeable lens camera, then go for the GH2. If you are going to be filming at dawn & dusk then low-light performance will be an important feature - in this case I'd lean towards the GH2.

Whatever camera you go with, it is going to take some serious horsepower to edit. You'll need to assess whether your current PC will be able to handle the strain of editing (or even transcoding) AVCHD video, and if not, factor an upgrade into your budget.

I don't really understand the VG10's market placement. It doesn't have all the features that regular point and shoot consumers want (power zoom, compact size, etc) but it lacks the features that enthusiasts and professionals want (proper audio inputs with manual control, 24p, multiple frame rates, etc). The new GH2, on the other hand, offers everything the VG10 does but with less aliasing, more frame rates, manual audio control and some sweet looking/kinda gimmicky features like 40fps stills burst mode and 1:1 crop mode to keep the gadget freaks happy. The one thing you do lose though is form factor.

I was reading a review from someone who was using a VG10 for "run and gun work". He slated the camera, and in some ways he was right, but actually it was his fault for buying the camera in the first place. He had assumed the VG10 was a replacement for his trusty old VX2000. It isn't.

If I use my Z1 or EX1, I can set the camera up in seconds and I know I can get good results every time quickly and efficiently. I can take the camera into a wide variety of situations without ever needing to alter the configuration. Full sized controls allow me to adjust the image and of course there is professional audio inputs and control. When you are earning a living from your camera on tight deadlines, that's what you need.

Having now had my VG10 for a week, I can confirm it produces stunning images for the price (usual DSLR caveats apply). But it's fiddly and it lacks lots of niceties that higher end cameras have. Sony have also deliberately hobbled it with a lack of focus assist. In the days of SD you could get away with a lack of this feature but with HD large sensors it means you have to take time to get your shots right. I'd hate to be shooting a one off fast moving/unpredictable event on a VG10 for fear I'd look at the footage on a monitor later and find I was slightly out of focus. With the EX1 that simply wouldn't happen.

I bought my VG10 as a "B "camera, a role which it will perform admirably on the evidence so far. It'll get me those arty shots to drop into a production that will mainly be produced on my EX1. But would I use the VG10 as an "A "camera? No way. Don't get me wrong, for the money its a great camera but there's far better options out there.

I don't really understand the VG10's market placement.

It grabbed me. Proper video camera form factor, and DSLR lenses. It doesn't avoid the aliasing and moire issues but you have to live with that.

But what I was looking for was the ability to get certain types of shots my EX1 can't offer. The big wide opener, a nice wide jib shot, the shallow DoF drop in of a product. Probably 10 seconds worth of footage in a 5 minute production. At the price the camera was hard to resist.

From the evidence so far, it's going to deliver what I want. But anyone wanting to earn a living from one of these as their sole camera would be advised to look elsewhere. This is a B camera for those of us who find the form factor and compromises of a conventional DSLR totally unacceptable.

All IMO naturally.

how do you think this would work Panasonic AG-HMC40PU AVCHD Camcorder. At Vistec Canada. Cant find much reading other than the promotional info.

Dino

I have seen the B role use for the VG 10 on several forums. Like the DOF effect so subject is the impotrant part of frame. came across this Panasonic AG-HMC40PU AVCHD Camcorder at Vistec Canada Panasonic AG-HMC40PU AVCHD Camcorder Pro Camcorders - Vistek Canada Product Detail (http://www.vistek.ca/store/ProVideoCamcorders/245681/panasonic-aghmc40pu-avchd-camcorder.aspx) . You may have to cut and paste this link. It may be more practical.

thank you all for the reply'
Cheers Dino

That's also a very good camera, Dino, but one that's intended for almost the opposite purpose to the VG10!

It might help people to advise you if they knew exactly what you were planning on using the camera for - is it professional or personal - and whether you want something you can just pick up and run on auto or something with a bit more depth.

Dino...at this point, this discussion is no longer about the VG10. Rest assured no matter what camera you come up with, there's information her on DVInfo. Here's the place you can read about the AG-HMC40 and ask questions about it if it hasn't already been asked:
Panasonic AVCCAM Camcorders Forum at DVinfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-avccam-camcorders/)

I do a lot of hunting and fishing that I want to get on video. I am at this point more interested in putting together vidoes of these hunts and fishing trips than participating in the activity. Much of this happens at sunrise and near sunset. The VG10 was in the price range and was a step above the point and shot camera. The flexability of manual control settings would allow for low light shoots, coupled with lens options.

Thanks for the link for the panasonic. I will go there now.

Cheers, Dino

how do you think this would work Panasonic AG-HMC40PU AVCHD Camcorder. At Vistec Canada.
Dino
Good camcorder for the price, also gives you some room to grow, but again, image is not 2.5x better than TM700, if better at all in daylight, it has closer to pro level manual controls and sound features that you might need in the future, but XF100 that will be available very shortly could be a far better option if you could stretch you budget for another $1K. Now is the worst time to buy a camcorder unless you buying a Christmas present to film family videos; in less than a month CES will show new 2011 models for the consumer and later at NAB we'll see what pro market will have for the next year, wait and then make your choice, I'm not saying you have to buy newer camcorder, I'm saying knowing all your options will be easier to make a choice and not have any regrets later.
best.

Dino,

The VG10 sounds like a good bet for that kind of use. The lovely looking video below from a VG10 owning fly fishing enthusiast should provide ample demonstration!

YouTube - amphish1's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/amphish1#p/u/1/8JVmNtwqgqI)

I do a lot of hunting and fishing that I want to get on video. I am at this point more interested in putting together vidoes of these hunts and fishing trips than participating in the activity.

I think the "what will you shoot" question is not they key question.

IMHO the question is do want FILM LEVEL QUALITY and are you willing to invest the time to learn and the time to set up shots correctly. It sounds like you will have the time in field.

I find it interesting that folks think the VG10 won't work as an A camera. How did folks make a living shooting 16mm film? One word answer -- skill. OK, that is harsh, but it is at least partly true.

Moreover, the non-A belief is built on the idea that you have to live with a shallow DOF. The VG10 will shoot like any other camcorder UNLESS you work to get the DOF down. There is a complete misunderstanding of the chips. They offer the potential of a shallow DOF.

Hard to focus? Nonsense. The idea one needs focus assist (FA) comes from where? Use the super hi-rez EVF and you'll have no problem seeing focus. Anyone who has used either kind of FA knows how useless they are in the real world.

IF you think you can use the other still cameras you need to read this:

ProVideo Coalition.com: Camera Log by Adam Wilt | Founder | Pro Cameras, HDV Camera, HD Camera, Sony, Panasonic, JVC, RED, Video Camera Reviews (http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/awilt/story/overview_several_first-generation_versacams/)

The VG10 is the ONLY CAMCORDER at $2000 that delivers the quality the others do without dealing with still camera limitations.

PS: Please read about the Panasonic AVCHD codec before even considering any of its still cameras for video. With any motion or fine detail you get "mud." I saw this BEFORE they released the GH1 and it is now well confirmed. Think you can use the firmware patch to fix? Not unless you buy one built before the end of June. Pana locked the camera. And, Nikon -- no VF when shooting. Actually, I think that applies to the Canons as well.

The 700 is the best of the last generation camcorders. These camcorders will be boxed between the VG10 and the several new Sony and Pana big chip cameras--plus the next generation HD-SLRs. Buying one of these is like buying a VX2000 the day before Sony released the Z1.

Once you have seen video from the big-chip cameras on a bigger than 60" screen you will not want to go back to tiny chip camcorders.

The fishing doc shows the potential. But there are at least a dozen shots that are really bad. If this loo is what you want, the 700 isn't going to get you there.

Agreed re: the VG10's potential. The ability to use a decent sized HDMI monitor without shutting down everything else would really help with focusing primes but other than that I'm really excited by it. I bought one for short film and music video use over the D60 because I didn't want the DSLR form factor and love the footage I'm getting out of it. Exciting times ahead, I'd certainly feel a bit leery about recommending a fixed lens camcorder to anyone right now.

I chose that video because of the subject matter, because there were some really nice shots in amongst it and the footage seemed achievable by someone getting used to the camera.

First thanks for all of your patience and responses to my post.

Steve, "Once you have seen video from the big-chip cameras on a bigger than 60" screen you will not want to go back to tiny chip camcorders."
By this are you speaking of the chip in the VG10 or the 1/2 or greater chips in the Pro models. I see this on your sign out “Field Guide to Sony NEX-VG10 (ISBN 1435459032)” where can I read/acquire this. Another question, is the interlace 60 to 30p (no 24p) a big deal as to DVDs for personal distribution.


The situation I will be shooting in will be in the woods, farm fields, marsh and on the boat. I like the shallow DOF, start on a foreground image and focus to further image in the frame losing the crisp first focal point. This could be a fern on the forest floor to white tailed deer emerging from the marsh. Knowing this setting must be set means not all has to be done in this manner. This is the way you most often see them come in. They are ghost like, all of a sudden they are there, no audible announcement of their approach they just emerge and you think “how did you get there without me noticing”. This is what I am after.

Auto focus to manual focus with one touch is a must as there is almost no chance of having an unobstructed view of anything. As you can imagine following a subject through the forest what auto would do.
As for the time to learn, that is what this leg work now is about. I have been reading and confusing myself for the last few weeks and why I joined this forum, the process begins now.

Quality of final product depends on skill with camera and computer, both skills I now am short on. Do I need Big Budget studio footage, no, but to submit work to one of the outdoor shows and have it aired as a prostaff is a good dream. This is not big screen stuff as can be seen by the snow, I mean show on TV airing as I type this. Gain must be cranked, it’s grainy as hell. I can do this now. I filmed my daughter on her first hunt and a friend did the edit. Turned out great and those who have seen it are kind or actually like it. No big zooms, fast pans and I gave him loads of material to extract what he needed.

I had the VG10 in hand today and still think it is #1 on the list. I am wondering if renting it for a couple days or for the weekend would be possible. This will get sample footage to edit.

Again, Thanks to all, Dino

The VG10 is the ONLY CAMCORDER at $2000 that delivers the quality the others do without dealing with still camera limitations.



The VG10 may solve some of the problems - like form factor, but it still has many of the same problems as the still cameras. It still has terrible aliasing. It still has no power zoom. It still has no manual gain control for audio, not meters, no zebras, and a histogram that shuts off when you need it most. And yes, it has a viewfinder, but only if you're happy to leave the camera in auto mode - because all the controls are located under the LCD screen and as soon as you open that up to reach the controls, the VF switches off!

...and its still the best thing out there right now in it's price range ;)

Dino...don't confuse shifting focus (aka focus racking) with shallow depth of field. Focus racks can be done with non-large sensor camcorders. Take a look at Dave Old Duffer Rice's stuff on Vimeo. Anything older than September was shot on a Canon HV30 class camera (1-chip 1/2.7" sensor) and after September, a Canon XH-A1 (3-chip 1/3" sensors). If anything, nature videography affords you the environment you need to do focus racks and shallow depth of field effects with non-large sensor camcorder designs. I'm not dissing the VG-10. It's limitations that make it hard to focus and expose are well documented by others and you've already picked up that it only shoots 60i. There's no such thing as "the best camera", only the "best camera for you".

Here's an HVxx video of Dave's:
Sitka Alaska's Autumn Mystery on Vimeo

Here's an XHA1 video:
Autumn's Last Hurrah on Vimeo

The VG10 may solve some of the problems - like form factor, but it still has many of the same problems as the still cameras. It still has terrible aliasing. It still has no power zoom. It still has no manual gain control for audio, not meters, no zebras, and a histogram that shuts off when you need it most. And yes, it has a viewfinder, but only if you're happy to leave the camera in auto mode - because all the controls are located under the LCD screen and as soon as you open that up to reach the controls, the VF switches off!

Let's take the last, first.

Do you have a VG10? Because if you do, please use the FINDER/LVD switch! Otherwise you are repeating an erroneous post from last July!

No histogram? Try the DISP button!

And, how would you know if the aliasing is "terrible?"

Of course it has no power-zoom -- 35mm type lense don't have power zooms. Not a limitation of any of the cameras. The lenses that people buy interchangeable lens camcorders for don't have power zooms.

With an audio limiter there is NO need for a meter or gain control. You are think of analog recording. Digital audio has never needed these 20th century gadgets.

Do you have a meter that shows the digital video recording level? Do you have a control that adjusts the "write" signal to tape or card? How do you know its recording? In the early days of analog recording VTRs had these functions.

and you've already picked up that it only shoots 60i.]

Dear god, another person who doesn't know anything about the VG10!

It shoots PROGRESSIVE VIDEO. It always has, either 25p or 30p.

These comments are so like the owners of Beta-SP when Sony released the first DV camcorder. It hurts when you see your investments going down the drain. :)

The real question is if his work is being done for SD broadcast, wouldn't a used PRO camcorder be a better buy. Anything that shot DV or DVCAM might be a great option.

An HDV Sony FX1 that can output DV over FireWire might be perfect. Or, a Sony Z1!

I'd also look at a JVC HD-100 with a PRO Canon 18X zoom. I'll give him a free book I wrote on the HD100.

I'm not pushing the VG10!

[QUOTE=Dino Santarossa;1596495[/QUOTE]

What the VG10 records is 1080i60/30 becomes NTSC 480i60 easily. No ptoblem for the TV station.

Alas, there is no one touch! However, given the light, I expect you will lokk the the VF and manually focus. It's also the only way to see clearly enough to change focus. The LCD is very nice, but looking at a 3" screen 1 to 2 feet away does not work with these old eyes.

However, I am serious when I posted that maybe getting a last generation professional camera might be best for you. Although they shoot HDV, they send ordinary DV out by FireWire. I'll bet you can edit this easily. And you'll have the originals in HD.

Google the Z1 FX1 HD100. I think the HD100 with the a pro lens would blow you aware.

Example: JVC GY-HD110U HDV Camcorder HD100U HD110 720P HD100* - eBay (item 370460616007 end time Dec-26-10 23:26:35 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370460616007&item=370460616007)

Dear god, another person who doesn't know anything about the VG10!

It shoots PROGRESSIVE VIDEO. It always has, either 25p or 30p.

These comments are so like the owners of Beta-SP when Sony released the first DV camcorder. It hurts when you see your investments going down the drain. :)

You are right about it storing in 25p and 30p but you are wrong to put me in the Beta-SP box. I looked at this camera and many others a few months ago when it hit the scene. It's hard to keep track of them all but I did check B&H. Attached is what they listed. Neither Signal system nor Recording rate specify it lays it down in 25p or 30p.

But just now I took the time and went back to a review I'd read in HD warrior and noticed this:
"The first thing that has confused me is the 1080 50i now for all intent and purposes this camcorder records 1080 50i but that is capturing at 25p and wrapping it as 50i why…Confused ? Well, you’re not the only one. In brief, what’s going on is "

I don't mind the correction but I do mind the manner in which you did it. Here's the article:
HD Warrior Blog Archiv SONY NEX-VG10 Conclusions (http://www.hdwarrior.co.uk/2010/10/20/sony-nex-vg10-conclusions/)

With an audio limiter there is NO need for a meter or gain control. You are think of analog recording. Digital audio has never needed these 20th century gadgets.


Steve, it doesn't help that when you are picking up peoples errors, you are posting more errors yourself.

Let me assure you with digital, audio levels are just as critical. Take my EX1, a camera much further up Sony's food chain. It has full manual audio control. I can choose to switch a limiter in if I wish, but that would create other problems. I certainly need to pay attention to how the inputs are set or there will be problems.

All a limiter does is limit the signal when it reaches a certain level, thereby reducing the dynamic range. Basically I suspect the camera has an automatic gain control and a limiter which is a pretty normal setup in a consumer camera. And this is a high end consumer camera after all.

Sony don't offer control over the audio for the same reason the VG10 doesn't offer focus assist or a viewfinder that displays video when the LCD is open. That reason is they need to keep clear blue water between their different models.

Marcus, just open the lcd screen and press the button at the bottom right of the main control panel labelled lcd/finder. It will switch the lcd screen off and the viewfinder back on, only now you have full access to the controls/histogram etc...

Marcus, just open the lcd screen and press the button at the bottom right of the main control panel labelled lcd/finder. It will switch the lcd screen off and the viewfinder back on, only now you have full access to the controls/histogram etc...

But it is still the case you have to have one or the other, you can't have both.

Can you have both with the EX cameras? My XH-A1 will also only allow one at a time...

Can you have both with the EX cameras? My XH-A1 will also only allow one at a time...

I'm pretty sure it does. I don't use the viewfinder that much day to day but with the VG10 I found myself trying it out. I can't remember ever having to shut the LCD to view the viewfinder on the EX1. I can remember having to do it on my old PDX10.

The VG10's viewfinder isn't up to much. It seems to separate into RGB components if you move your head or blink which was rather distracting. I'd rather have a high quality B/W viewfinder than a poor colour one.

The other problem I've read about but can't confirm, is that you can't output via DVI with the viewfinder or LCD on. A shame as it would have been nice to buy one of those external recorders that does ProRes and stream out to that to avoid the AVCHD compression.

I think it is important not to label as a problem something only a tiny minority who buy a $2000 camcorder would ever use. Why not mention the lack of a 10 bit hd-sdi output?

This is all utter nonsense just like the beta sp folks used against DV. There's no need for HDMI or hd-sdi in the CONSUMER price range.

Preferring a B&W vf is fine, go find a $2000 camcorder that this. There's a song that applies to these kinds of posts, "wishing and wanting."

Likewise, the fact folks keep thinking they need a wider dynamic range is a problem of BELIEF. Digital camcorders have 16 bit input which is about 96 dB of dynamic range. This is the same dynamic range as a CD, so to argue that this is not enough flys in the fact that this a huge range for anything you are likely to record on a camcorder.

In digital, the only rule is no clipping.

Now, if you use a very sensitive mic that constantly forces limiting -- that's not good. But, the problem is that YOU are using the wrong mic. It's like plugging a 120 vac device into a 240 vac outlet and saying the device is faulty. You should know you need to match levels.

This is why pro cameras have a input attenuators switches. You set them to make a match. If you buy a consumer camcorder, you attenuate between the balanced mic and the unbalanced input. If you don't have the money for pro gear you have to have skills. One or the other.

In fact, I'd argue that the good thing about starting cheap is it forces one to develop skills.

Also, the VG10 does not have auto gain. That was another rumor posted months ago.

In fact, if you compare the VG10 against the other HDSLRs you'll find it compares very well. The Nikon records mono at 11kHz!

Sorry if I was too harsh, but I'm not sure what makes people post information when they don't use the product and they are relying on information that was posted and immediately corrected.

Professional isn't really the equipment one owns -- it's what you knows. Passing on old rumors -- before anyone had the product -- isn't very professional IMHO.

Professional: "There's been confusion and wrong specs printed about the 60i recording of the VG10. The sensor captures in 30p but Sony stores it in 60 fields.

Unprofessional: "Dear god, another person who doesn't know anything about the VG10!"

You are totally right about the confusion which was caused bySony when it published world-wide the wrong specs. You have to ask how a company this big can make this kind of error.

And, if you read one of the early "pre-reviews" they would have had it wrong. And, if you didn't go back and check and didn't read the post on other long thread here, you would never. I forget that some are coming into this new section without reading the other thread. I appologise.

And, there is a problem with a limiter if you are recording two channels and not stereo or mono. The limiter acts on both inputs at the same time.

You can kuldge a solution by using a mixer and setting both gains to not output levels above about -8dB. Then neither trigger limiting.

Also, it is reasonable to believe that although the digital circuits are 16-bits -- the lower 2-3 may be lost it digital noise. Moreover the Dolby compression may not support 16 bits.

So I do understand the feeling that one needs manual gains, I'm not sure how while shooting one could ride the gain on two channels and never allow clipping while increasing gain in low sound points. The gain controls are almost behind your ear.

I used to do recording and even in a studio this was very hard. Especially not to introduced errors. Mostly we allowed +6dB peaks because the clipping was soft.

The solution is someone with a mixer, but if you have a person for this they might as well have a 4 channel digital recorder. So when I say its a myth I should say I just don't see how one person could do anything else.

Apology accepted. I was surprised to discover the B&H specs tab was just flat out missing the 30p capability. After your post I dug up the Sony page and found the 30p recording there. In the end, I remembered stopping interest in the camera because I wanted a B-camera that did 24p. Otherwise, I would be leaning hard toward it too subject to aliasing and moire issues.

To be clear, I didn't bring up the limiter. Your knowledge about it is impressive.

The solution is someone with a mixer, but if you have a person for this they might as well have a 4 channel digital recorder. So when I say its a myth I should say I just don't see how one person could do anything else.


I manage to shoot most weeks with cameras with manual audio controls and don't have any problems. Having no controls is a problem because you can't compensate for someone who is quietly spoken, or who is very loud. The controls on the EX1 allow me to tweak as I go along. 80% of the time you don't need to touch them but there are always occasions that adjustments are needed.

But I'd never use the VG10 for audio anyway. As far as I'm concerned it might as well have no audio capacity, it's the look of the lenses I am after.

I bought this camera to test it and I am returning it back to the store. I can't film with this camera. The LCD is so small that it is impossible for me to tell what is in focus. If you want "close enough" shots then go ahead and buy it. I have EX1, AX2000 and xr550V; the LCD in VG10 is worst one; no peaking not even expanded focus; it is just ridiculous. The only way to film with this camera is to have external monitor. Period. If I have to use external monitor then I'd go with Nikon or Canon.

I'm sorry you felt unable to use the camera, but to state that it's unusable period without an external monitor simply isn't true. There are lots of people getting very good footage with just the camera and kit lens out of the box.

give me honest answer: filming with VG10 and using camera's [horrible] LCD can you tell what's in focus in your shot. honestly. I am using EX1 and maybe I am spoiled by its LCD and tons of info displayed on screen but I know one thing for sure I am doing this for living and I MUST be sure if my shot is focused properly.

I do understand that you use the cameras to make your living, in common with many of the rest of us on this forum, and so need reliable performance.

I haven't had any problems so far with the kit lens, but I'm used to working without focus assist and just zooming in and judging it by eye (normally literally!) so maybe my requirements are less exacting.

This is the first time I've worked with primes and I am sometimes finding it a little tricky to pull focus accurately on mid-range subjects when I can't zoom in and check I'm sharp. That said, the 7" lilliput field monitor retails for very little indeed and should fix the problem if we don't get some kind of firmware update to help out...

see, using that 7" monitor defeats the point of creating shallow dept of field camcorder (I guess that was Sony's idea - to create one integral piece); if we have to carry additional equipment then it will be better to use Nikon or Canon cameras.
It is a step in right direction by Sony but first model (VG10) lacks so many necessary features; it looks like they cut corners to lower the price of final product. It shouldn't be so hard to provide peaking or at least focus expansion feature - it is all digital it could be easily done in firmware. To give you an example how far they went: they eliminated battery usage data so now you see only "dumb" icon of "full/empty" battery whereas in XR550V which uses same batteries you have exact amount on minutes remaining; in professional setting it is important for me to know where I am with power usage. It is not a rocket science for crying out loud.

give me honest answer: filming with VG10 and using camera's [horrible] LCD can you tell what's in focus in your shot. honestly. I am using EX1 and maybe I am spoiled by its LCD and tons of info displayed on screen but I know one thing for sure I am doing this for living and I MUST be sure if my shot is focused properly.

I'm amused to think how you might have coped in the days of 16mm.

As a fellow EX1 user, the VG10 is another tool for the toolbox. The lack of focus assist is pain but not a killer. This isn't a run and gun camera like the EX1. Each shot takes time to setup. You have to compose the shot, check and double check. You'll get wonderful results, but unlike the EX1 those results may not be quick.

With the zoom lens, focusing is easy, simply zoom in as normal and get your focus. With prime lenses its harder, but not impossible by any means. Of course with then non-Sony primes, you will have a distance indicator on the focus barrel to help you. Personally (and perhaps there is a way to tell this) I find the Sony lenses a pain because you have no idea where you are focussed other than by eye because the focus ring just rotates forever!

If I was shooting an event where things were happening quickly, and there was no chance of a retake I wouldn't be using the VG10. That's EX1 territory. You have to remember that the VG10 is essentially a handycam with a big sensor you can stick some nice glass on. You might argue its more expensive than a standard Handycam, but as soon as you have deducted the cost of the stock lens it really isn't.

That said, my Canon Legria has focus assist but lack other features that make it equally fiddly. So make of that what you will!

Marius,

A prosumer and Cinealta version of the camera are coming.The VG10 is a high end consumer camcorder. It was marketed and priced as such. It just happens to shoot amazing footage that can outclass cameras twice it's price.

If you want pro features such as you describe you have to pay for a pro camera, or accept a degree of improvisation/compromise in return for the picture quality. I happen to think using a VG10 involves far less compromise than a DSLR equivalent, hence my purchase. You don't, hence your return.

these improvements are very easy to make (for Sony); it is in the firmware;

But they're unlikely to make them on a consumer camera. I suggest you wait until the prosumer and cinealta versions come out later in the year and purchase one of those.

these improvements are very easy to make (for Sony); it is in the firmware;

It's not a question of how easy it would be for Sony to offer more features. It's about how they percieve the need to slice and dice the marketplace so that they do not cut their own throat.
The specs and features of this camera are well known, and thoroughly discussed/reviewed/dissected all over the web. There is no rational excuse for buying this camera and being surprised that it doesn't have the features of an EX1.
The VG 10 is for consumers and that is a deliberate marketing decision, not a technology/price limitation.
For the professional shooters who need pro features, the solution will arrive in 2011 with the addition of 2 new pro level 35mm chip cams. Sony really wants you to buy these cameras if you want more features.
They are simply not going to give the farm away in a $2K Handicam (actually a $1.2K Handicam, if you discount the lens).
I think it is a clever strategy personally- I can play around with large chip shooting using the VG10. If I get hooked on it, maybe I'll upgrade- I can even continue to use my existing lenses. If not, I'll still have a fun B cam for DOF shots.

Absolutely agreed, Robert. The limitations of the camera are well documented and should be no surprise. Given the regular and vocal criticism of the VG10 I feel the need to re-emphasise how pleased I am with my purchase and the results I'm getting from it.

This is more of the same as the "my camera's controls lock out randomly. It must be faulty. I've sent it back and am getting a D60... What do you mean I was accidentally pressing the photo button with my knuckle?!" farago.

YouTube - Sony nexvg10 locks up while shutter release is pressed. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoHTwVsriQQ)

If people did their research properly before buying the world would be a happier place :)

I'm amused to think how you might have coped in the days of 16mm.

As a fellow EX1 user, the VG10 is another tool for the toolbox. The lack of focus assist is pain but not a killer. This isn't a run and gun camera like the EX1. Each shot takes time to setup. You have to compose the shot, check and double check. You'll get wonderful results, but unlike the EX1 those results may not be quick.

You told it very well. Each shot is set-up. And, can be repeated for multiple takes.

I'm not sure what the deal is with the LCD. It is big and high-rez. It does not work well with veri-focal glasses. But, the VF really is very nice

Now about audio. Lets assume we have a loud guy on channel 1 and a low-talker on channel 2. In terms of DIGITAL recording, there is no need to not simply allow the difference. The lower signal can peak at -20dB while the loud can peak at -6dB. Digital couldn't care. It's simply numbers. There is no strength or weakness! This is why digital is so great. The numbers can get screwed-up either. Any noise is introduced by the analog stage before the A/D converted. From this point until you view the movie it is all numbers.

In post ,you adjust the numbers to be more equal.

I'm not sure what the deal is with the LCD. It is big and high-rez. It does not work well with veri-focal glasses. But, the VF really is very nice.

I do believe the LCD and the VF are close, if not the same, as the EX1r. The specs are certainly similar- around 1 megapixel for both.
P.S.- I think it is not the LCD that doesn't work with your glasses, but rather the glasses that don't work well with the LCD :)

give me honest answer: filming with VG10 and using camera's [horrible] LCD can you tell what's in focus in your shot. honestly. I am using EX1 and maybe I am spoiled by its LCD and tons of info displayed on screen but I know one thing for sure I am doing this for living and I MUST be sure if my shot is focused properly.

The LCD is similar (possibly a different screen coating), the VF certainly isn't the same unless they've done a bizarre downgrade on the EX1R. The VG10 VF has a lack of resolution and has that thing that LED stage lights sometimes suffer from that of you move your head or blink, you can see Red, Green and Blue suddenly appearing from nowhere.

It's not a question of how easy it would be for Sony to offer more features. It's about how they percieve the need to slice and dice the marketplace so that they do not cut their own throat.

We know Pana limited the data rate of the Gh1 because folks hacked it. Then, Pana locked the code so you can't make the camera better.

But, there are a few firmware changes that would not give away the store. For example you can hold down the shutter button in MF. Why not activate the FA by pressing the shutter button when in AF.

And, the FOCUS button should simply TOGGLE between MF and AF.

These don't seem like marketing decisions. These are more like sloppy design.

Also, does anyone think it odd it hasn't been reviewed in any video magazines?

I get the sense the whole NEX line was rushed. But, the 3 and 5 are sure selling!

My first Nikon prime arrived this morning.

My goodness, how much easier it is to focus with a proper focus barrel. Had no trouble pulling focus to exactly where I wanted it and can hit the spot every single time.

If Sony are expecting professionals to use the e-mount lenses in the (unreleased) higher cameras, they might have tough time. A freely rotating focus barrel that gives no feel or indication of what the hell it is doing is just dreadful. 10 minutes with a Nikon is a different world. Yes the mechanisms aren't as smooth as I'd like for video but hitting the spot with the focus is so so much easier.

For those complaining about focus, ditch those Sony lenses and go and buy something decent guys. From what I've seen so far shooting is worlds apart.