Hi,
does any of you know of any commercial movies.. the one that go in the theatres.. made with Canon 5D or 7D. As far as I know the most commercial thing done is an episode of "House". I don't know of any "real" movies distribuited in theatres. Can somebody help?

Given the time it takes to get shooting through post, and the fact the camera has been around only two years, its not likely you will see one yet.

And you wouldn't for any major release. It would have to come from an independent film maker, I am sure.

Sure.. probably an indipendent.. but.. who? Two years is not so a short time... and I think is almost three years now (allthough 24fps is more recent). I don't expect a Tom Cruise movie... but some serious product in some serious indipendent film festival or so... Tribeca, Sundance...
I would like to see how printing on 35mm comes out, how action scenes are handled (being a CMOS camera), etc...

YouTube - Die Chefärzte der Charité, INTRO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y3iUMHUhnw)

Thanks. This is a documentary however... I would really like to see some movie... in the cinemas !
Did you any test on 35mm printing?

But anyway.. seems really good (allthough Ich verstende nicht detush).
Congrats !

Go have a look at ExposureRoom - Providing Exposure & Opportunity for Talent (http://www.exposureroom.com)


There was a full feature shot in India around a real traditional India wedding ceremony. The link to it can be found on the exposureroom front page. There is a poster image with a sunset backdrop to click on.

This is not a movie in the theatres... I am talking about something I could find in a Warner Village, in Space Cinemas, or so.... I need to know (or check for myself) how it looks printed on 35mm and projected on a 30 feet screen.

You're more likely to see the 5DMk2 used in feature films as a b-roll cam and used where it really shines. Low light and close quarters.

George Lucas' upcoming film "Red Tails" used the 5DMk2 in many scenes where larger cams wouldn't work easily. I've heard that there are upwards of 200 shots still in the latest cut.

Shane Hurlbut (DP Terminator Salvation) has shot a Navy Seals feature film that used the 5DMk2 as the main cam intercut with film. Again, some scenes still work better with film. They're still working on distrubution and hope to have it released soon.

Thanks Rick, this is great info.. what I was looking for...I look forward to see these movies and scenes

Thanks Rick, this is great info.. what I was looking for...I look forward to see these movies and scenes

The 5D has been used in several movies. Go look at Ironman2. Racetrack sequence. The low stuff from around the track, the "in the stands", the stuff where we are seeing Tony Stark in the car up close... all 5D stuff. They were used as crash cams too.

But anyone making a movie that would be destined for a real cinema release, with a 35mm film-out would have access to MUCH better equipment to shoot on than a 5D. Why waste the time? Securing a RED or similar camera for the length of the shoot would give a MUCH better product for maybe a $10k or $20k rental. An absolute pittance in comparison to what it takes to do a full length film-out.

As for putting 5D footage on the screen, I've done two 5D shoots. One has made 22 film fests or something like that now. We did that in 2009. And shot another (better) short in Summer 2010 on the 5D with the 24p firmware update. I've seen the first on a 40ft screen, and the new film on a 28ft screen. Both looked nice, but neither would get confused for an Alexa or a RED.

-P

"But anyone making a movie that would be destined for a real cinema release, with a 35mm film-out would have access to MUCH better equipment to shoot on than a 5D"

Not so sure.. I usually do corporate videos and in-house have a dolly, a steadicam, camera car, lights etc.. all sized for a small troupe. Now I have been contacted by a "once famous now less but still good" italian actor (here in italy) who wants to to a low budget full lenght feature movie. He wants to auto-produce it. So we'll have to use in-house equipment. But he still has good contacts so a distributor has agreed to distribute it (and pay for negative + positive copies print) if we give him a finished product on digital media....

Anyway... this is why I am asking.... Maybe the whole thing could actually work!

Anyway... this is why I am asking.... Maybe the whole thing could actually work!

It could, but I'd certainly be looking for a different camera to shoot on. The 5D is a pain in the butt. And I don't know that I'd be all that willing to shoot for a theatrical release with it. Maybe the new Sony or Panasonic. But if my name was on the line, I'd be looking for something other than a 5D.

The final episode of last season's "House" was shot completely with 5DMKII cameras (three of them), and they routinely intercut scenes with 35mm film. I think the DSLRs are good enough, but like any camera--the camera is a tool. You learn how to use it and get comfortable with dealing with its eccentricities, there's no real reason you couldn't make a narrative feature with one.

As to SHOULD you make a feature with one, that's a different deal. On any narrative feature length film, the camera is only a tiny fraction of the cost of the project. Most people would choose to go with big chip higher end cameras, like the Arri Alexa or Sony F35. But it you're an independent sort of guy down at the lower end of the food chain, the DSLR option is a good way to go. Given a choice between a high end camera and a couple of sets of fresnels and the 5D with one of the lighting trucks fully loaded from Lights On or other rental house, I'd go with the 5D and take the lights.

I haven't shot with a Red but know others who have and I don't think the 5DII is any more of a pain in the butt than it can be.

The final episode of last season's "House" was shot completely with 5DMKII cameras (three of them), and they routinely intercut scenes with 35mm film. I think the DSLRs are good enough, but like any camera--the camera is a tool. You learn how to use it and get comfortable with dealing with its eccentricities, there's no real reason you couldn't make a narrative feature with one.


House isn't playing on a 50ft screen in the theater either. And it is notable that while that particular episode of House was shot on a 5D, that hasn't been repeated. It was a singular event. The fact is, that while under several circumstances the 5D can be an effective tool, it has a LOT of limitations when shooting narrative. Been there, done that.


As to SHOULD you make a feature with one, that's a different deal. On any narrative feature length film, the camera is only a tiny fraction of the cost of the project. Most people would choose to go with big chip higher end cameras, like the Arri Alexa or Sony F35. But it you're an independent sort of guy down at the lower end of the food chain, the DSLR option is a good way to go. Given a choice between a high end camera and a couple of sets of fresnels and the 5D with one of the lighting trucks fully loaded from Lights On or other rental house, I'd go with the 5D and take the lights.



At this juncture, you've got the AF100 coming in a couple of weeks, a similar Sony coming in a few months. The cost of the camera, in this case a 5D is nearly negligible. By the time you get it outfitted to do a feature (he didn't say a short), and pay for production, the 5D becomes nearly an afterhought in the budget. Heck, a good Mattebox will cost as much as the camera! Nevermind lensing it.

Yes, if you have to make other significant compromises to shoot on a much better camera, that needs to be weighed out. But I can name a pretty long list of cameras I'd rather rent than shoot a feature on a 5D. For one, I'd REALLY like to have timecode since I am going to need to sync sound. Lining up a few days of footage for a short with slate and clapper isn't a big deal. But doing a feature that way? Weeks and weeks of footage with maybe several hundred takes to sync. No thanks. I'll avoid that pain if I can.


I haven't shot with a Red but know others who have and I don't think the 5DII is any more of a pain in the butt than it can be.

Yea, but the rewards for that pain on the RED, or Alexa, or Viper, or any number of other cameras really makes it worthwhile.

If it comes down to shooting the movie with the 5D, or NOT shooting the movie because you really can't get anything else, then shoot on the 5D. I'm just saying I'd be looking hard at other options first.

Very interesting discussion.. i think the last episode of house was the double episode in which many shots are on a collapsed building, under bricks, etc.. A sort of 9/11 situation... Am I right? Dark light, small spaces.

I agree a full feature is quite long, and syncs can be a problem. For corporate use I have a Zoom Audio Recorder and I feed audio directly into the 5D.. but I agree.. for a feature I would use a slate and syncs for more quality. I also own a JVC HM700 and found some settings where the two cameras (depth of field apart) can look quite the same so maybe this camera can help me too..

Well.. let's see what happens. I'd really like to see some 35mm in a theatre done from the 5D..

By the way. This is an ad (made for national TV) I made with 5D: siRoma (http://www.siroma.com/lavori_CPL_Spot.html)

Don`t forget, that 5D makes films only HD resolution, while RED ONE a 4K camera with RAW recording.
It deliver uncompressed 4480 x 2304 resolution pictures - near 5 times more pixel information.
This is a really big quality difference.

I think RED an 5D are almost uncomparable.. resolution, compression, etc... But ... with 5D.. id not lower the price of the camera.... but of all around... the whole process needs less time and less people.

I haven't used it myself but I hear that PluralEyes makes mincemeat out of the sync process.

I think "Act of Valor", the Navy Seals feature that Shane shot, is going to open some eyes. It will be interesting to see how the 35mm and the 5D footage integrate.

I recently shot a half-hour pilot for FX on 1D's and from what I hear, there is a lot of positive feedback on the look. It certainly wasn't easy, particularly switching amongst a variety of lenses (I had a few Canon zooms, a set of CP2's, a set of ZE's and the Ruby 14-24, and every time we changed between styles of lens it was a reconfiguration nightmare for the assistants (mattebox donuts, rod length etc.). Shooting on a submarine didn't help with all that either.

I think that a carefully shot feature made on the Canons would do just fine on the big screen, particularly if it was a character-driven story.

Even better than Plural Eyes is the stand alone product they have out called Dual Eyes. With that one, you throw all your footage and your independently captured sound into a single directory, and select either generation of sound clip cut and fit to the video clip, or you can select preparation of a new clip with the sound generated.

I have done some testing with the product, but haven't put it to the full test. I think best way to use it is to shoot the 5D with AGC on (of all things) so the there is adequate sound for the program to compare.

With Cineform, I will convert the footgage first to Cineform, then do the sound matching in Dual Eyes.

I have PluralEyes and really, really love it. It has saved me hours and hours (more like days or weeks, actually) during which I would've been slaving away at manual syncing without it (this was for a feature... probably not Sundance-bound, but we'll see). They gave it a huge post-release update that adds all the functionality of DualEyes as well. Sync worked for over 90% of the clips I sent it, so I'd say the lack of timecode is no problem.

I think comparing the 5DMKII to the Red or other high end cameras is meaningless. It is what it is. You can get good images with it if you learn the technology. Same with any other big chip camera. If I were going to shoot a low budget feature film digitally and had the money I'd go for the Alexa. On a lower level I'd probably go for the new Sony that's upcoming. On a micro budget I'd go for the 5DMKII at this point. I have seen 5DMKII and 7D footage on a 32' screen. Looks damn good.

On a micro budget I'd go for the 5DMKII at this point. I have seen 5DMKII and 7D footage on a 32' screen. Looks damn good.

Yep, you just have to deal with the pain of getting it there. And I'd take the 7D over the 5D on a narrative shoot any day of the week. More flexible, easier focus, usually needs less light.

Back on topic, James Franco said the 5D was used on his new film 127 hours

I've read that he used the 1D as a second camera, and the main camera was the SI, but I don't have any way of knowing which is accurate. Most people seem to be using the 5D when they intercut with film because of the higher resolution. But since he intercut with the SI, if that's correct, maybe that's why he used a 1D. Or maybe it was because of low light. I've heard about some movies shot with the F900 where they used the 7D as a second camera, and also about some that use the 5D when intercutting with film.

The 7D is, indeed, easier to use than the 5D in terms of keeping things in focus, because it doesn't have the super shallow DOF. But I don't see anything more flexible about it (except for the 720p 60 fps and I like Twixtor better for that to stay 1080p), and it doesn't need less light, unless you're talking about less light to get a deeper DOF, and that's true. I've used both cameras and although I haven't done a side by side comparison with the same shot, it seems to me a 2.8 on the 7D has about the same DOF as an f4 on the 5D. When I had the 7D I got by without a follow focus system, but when I bought the 5D, my first purchase after the first dolly shot with it was a follow focus system. In most of the shoots I do if I need more DOF, I will go from 160 to 320 ISO and on screen sizes where my commercial stuff shows (50" plasma is the biggest) nobody can see the difference. For festival stuff that will go to a big screen, I keep to 160 unless there's no way to do that. Generally it's not difficult to add enough light. I agree that it is more difficult working with the shallower DOFs of the 5D, but once you have some experience with it, it's not a big deal.

It's kind of amusing that so many people work so hard to get less DOF, and with the 5D you are often concerned with getting more. But that's applicable only to low light situations. The upside to that is if you want less you can get there without having to use your lenses wide open.

I moved to the 5D because of lenses and really wasn't expecting the image quality to be noticeable better, but it is. I guess the combination of bigger chip and higher resolution is responsible. I have intercut the two cameras and nobody but me has been able to see the difference. Probably for run-'n-gun type shooting a 7D with a fast zoom lens would be more appropriate; for more controlled things I like the 5D with primes.

Charles' comment about changing lens configurations is right on. I use the Redrock ring gears on all my lenses. Every lens has its own gear that stays on all the time. Instead of loosening and sliding the drive back and forth to accommodate lens length, I usually slide the camera back and forth on the long quick release plate. All my primes are close to the same length, so that works nicely. For the one zoom I have (70-200) it doesn't, but I rarely use the zoom. The only real hassle for me is that my Nikkors focus backward from the Zeiss and Canon lenses. That sorta sucks.

Bill,

My comment about the 7D being easier comes from a few factors.

1. I tend to like shooting at F2.8 to F4. But on the 5D this is PAINFULLY shallow, especially if we are moving the camera and/or the actors. This is compounded by...

2. The inability to monitor in HD. With the 7D you can put a nice big monitor on it and really see when you are in focus. The 5D really falls down here.

3. In order to maintain some depth with the 5D, you have to close the iris down, so instead of being at F2.8 or F4 where I want to be, I am suddenly lighting for F5.6 or F8. Usually not a problem, but sometimes it really is. Like when I had a shoot over the summer with a GRAND TOTAL of 1 15A circuit available to me for lighting. In a dark warehouse.

Each system has it's merits, but I find the smaller sensor cams to be a bit more user friendly. If I was doing all-pro gigs and we had dollys and other equipment that made things easier, I might feel differently.

I shot a short form doc last week with my 5D MKII. I agree with the others, if you are shooting for theatrical release, I would use a tool made for that like a RED, Alexa or something else. The 5D MKII is great for what it is, but the workflow for professional film making and the compromises that one has to endure in operating, focusing and monitoring would make it a nightmare for a feature IMHO. I own the AG-HPX170 also, I would use that for a feature film any day over the 5D MKII, the 5D MKII image is not going to hold up well in post without a lot of expensive massaging whereas I have seen my HPX170 blown up to an IMAX screen last year in Copenhagen for a film I shot and it looked surprisingly good, even though it was only shot in 1080i/24pA. Codec matters a lot more for projection that it does for television or the web.

I love my 5D MKII but it is a still camera that shoots video, it is not a cinema camera. It isn't even a video camera.

Just my opinion but if you are shooting something for theatrical release, there will be enough money to rent a more suitable camera for the task at hand.

Dan

A Beautiful Belly (2010) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1440110/)

We used a 7d to shoot sections of the "Fall of the Hunters Moon" movie that is in edit now. It is a feature length independent shot in North Carolina. It will appear in local NC theaters around March 2011. With any luck outside of NC if the response if good.

Shot entirely on the 7D
Canon 7D Shot SXSW Award Winning Tiny Furniture, In Theatres*11/12/2010 The Phoblographer (http://thephoblographer.com/2010/11/09/canon-7d-shot-sxws-award-winning-tiny-furniture-in-theatres-11122010/)
I just saw this in the theatre and it looked great
J

Hello,

I might be a bit off-topic, but the Norwegian comedy "Dag" (10 episodes) was done entirely on Canon EOS-1D Mark IV. The decision to do so was based on an intensive testing using the 5D Mark II. I haven't found out why the crew chose the 1D Mark IV instead of the 5D Mark IV, but I guess they had particular production needs? I've seen all the episodes on air AND the newly released DVD. It's just great television. I was amazed when I found out that it was done entirely on DSLRs. The picture quality stands out as being very filmic and high quality. In the behind the scenes interviews the DOP, an experienced filmmaker here in Norway, talks very positive about the experiences with the DSLR technology (even if he admits that the technology has quite a few shortcomings).

You'll find info on the DOP here: Pål Bugge Haagenrud - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0351777/)

I include a link to one of the trailers to this series. But please, this is a dark comedy. You might find some of the clips in this trailer offensive. You're warned. This series has been a huge success. Not once did the DSLR technology stand in the way of the storytelling. I really hope they'll make another series. I've enjoyed this one very much.

YouTube - Dag teaser.mov (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAqGh2uURGk)

Here is a link to an info page about the production. It's in Norwegian, but at least you'll see the camera rig.
Filmet Antonsen med speilrefleks | Journalisten.no (http://www.journalisten.no/story/62946)

I really enjoy using DSLRs in my work as a creative director. I've done quite a few productions utilizing the Canon 5D Mark II myself the last year. I'm actually doing a documentary using the 5D Mark II right now. I include a link to a short clip from another television documentary I did earlier this year.

Pemba outro sequence on Vimeo

Kind regards,
-terje

Dag is so sick. I love it. Hope it makes it to the UK.
Thanks for the links. Very useful.
Your work in progress is engaging.

Richard: Thank you for your kind words. The "new tools" (DSLRs and the new big sensor cameras coming soon) really make it possible for us independent film makers to explore the qualities that's usually associated with more expensive productions... :-) It's very inspiring times for sure. I'm looking forward to next year's NAB to check out all the new gadgets.

No wonder you enjoy the trailer link, being from UK? I must admit that I've quite a few British comedies in my film collection. There's nothing like British comedy :-)

I'll let you know if I hear of any plans of releasing "Dag" in the UK, Richard!

-terje

A new feature film 'The Rafters' by director John Carney (Once, Zonad) has wrapped recently. It had been shot with a number of 7D's that had been converted by FGV Schmidle in Germany for PL mounts etc. This movie will certainly be released in cinemas next year.

An image of the set up can be seen here: http://www.vastvalley.com/detail.php?id=368&category_id=2

Check this out on you tube.
The old trailer was shot with ex3 and sgblade.
The second trailer, the soundtrack(score) and the movie with Canon T2i.
YouTube - rodneycheukalam's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/rodneycheukalam)

I have heard that the subway footage on Black Swan was shot on a 7D in order to be stealthy. I hope to see it this weekend. It's in limited release in major cities right now.

Shot on 3 x 5DMkII's.
Shown in competition at this year's Tokyo International Film Festival on a 50 ft screen.
Any out-of-focus will become very visible, but apart from that, the image holds up perfectly (projection of an HDCAM tape).
Trailers:
[http://fotofilmvideo.com/Primaria/primaria.html]

IMDb:
[http://pro.imdb.com/title/tt1733317/]

Cheers
Dan.