Here it is guys an e-mount in NXCAM format

http://www.dvinfo.net/news/sony-to-expand-35mm-sensor-camcorder-line.html

This is Panny's AF100 competition. You had to know it was coming.

This is Panny's AF100 competition. You had to know it was coming.
Yup, without a doubt. I guess tomorrow we'll hear about a price and more info. Nice to see it'll do 1080 60P in addition to all the other frame rates.

Which sensor I wonder? NEX or F3? Throw a mic and handle on that thing and call it done.

Gleemed from video. Just barely make out the XLR output on the back or DC input?. Leave the viewfinder off sony. Looks like all the fine controls will be touch screen?

Which sensor I wonder? NEX or F3? Throw a mic and handle on that thing and call it done.
The article said it is a S35 sensor, so I would figure the F3 sensor. It has a mic and handle if you watch the 40 second video in the article.

The article said it is a S35 sensor, so I would figure the F3 sensor. It has a mic and handle if you watch the 40 second video in the article.

That's the handgrip on the side I think. You saw a mic?

They didn't show it with the LCD open, bound to be a setting buttons, behind like on the VX2000. Handgrip have the media cards in it maybe ?

Very interesting. If this one has an HDMI output it would be a perfect companion with the Atomos Ninja. Especially with this form factor.

Kind of looks like an early Vision Research Pre Phantom camera... :) I like the idea but after seeing this brief shot of it and knowing it is AVCHD.... I now like the F3 better but hopefully they will shed some light on specs tomorrow and we can get some additional pics.... 1080 60p out of the gate is nice but what bitrate are we looking at for the AVCHD and what is the recording media?? 2011 is going to be exciting, I am not going to rush as the EX1 is working great for me now and I have been holding off for a 35mm Cinema Camera but was leaning toward the RED Epic or scarlet S35 if it ever shows up... but now the F3 and this are making options available... Will need to see detailed specs and some sample footage of what these cameras can do before I decide to give up on 5k and 18 stops with HDRx plus It kills me that no one else is stepping up to allow 120-225fps even in short bursts so we can really get some nice in camera slo mo. 60fps just is not fast enough for a lot of work I do and the Phantom rental although awesome!!!!!!!! Is not ideal as the budget for most projects is just not in the ballpark. I could really live with the 120-225fps range the RED provides... Sony and Panasonic please step up the fps on these new cams... firmware upgrade to allow for higher bursts would be very nice feature... not sure why it is missing from every camera but Jannard's. The cycle rate of this sensor should be fast enough to at least allow at least 120fps if not higher.

@ jason: I assume the recording media will be SDHC, SDXC or Sony's memory stick. Just like the NEX-VG10.

That's the handgrip on the side I think. You saw a mic?

Is this suppose to be the pro version of the VG-10?

Ozzy

Hmm. We'll know later today but this looks like a spoiling tactic to try and abate the demand for the soon to be available AF100 from Panasonic (it's understandable - that's business after all). I'm currently skeptical that we'll see this anytime very soon (i.e. next few months) from seeing this video...but would love to be wrong!

It's sure getting interesting!!!!!

EDIT: Back from school run and watched video again. Looks like only one XLR input on the back? (the rendered shot that also briefly shows the inadequate looking handle grip).

Sony doesn't usually "tease", the VG10 was less than a year from "concept" to sale, as were the EXMOR R sensors and super OIS. By the time they let something out from under the blankets, they are already well into the process of being able to deliver it to the end user.

Certainly is an interesting development of the E mount, and of course the A mount adapter - makes for a LOT of lenses potentially available to hang on the front!

That's the handgrip on the side I think. You saw a mic?Yes, just slightly in front of the handle. It's small enough to miss.

Latest web chatter is £6K Euros although I've had problems logging into Sony UK site today for some reason so can't confirm this (so don't quote me!). Even if true, I don't see how they can be so firm on pricing if it's not available until mid 2011?

I'm currently skeptical that we'll see this anytime very soon (i.e. next few months) from seeing this video...but would love to be wrongThe Sony website confirms that you are correct This new addition to Sony's professional "NXCAM" line will be available in the middle of 2011. so probably at least 9 months away. I think this announcement is just spoiling tactics to counter the Panasonic AF100/101 launch.

Looks interesting, although why is there what looks like a hot shoe on the front of the lens housing? Or is that some other kind of mount (microphone)?

Shame it's so far away though, definitely smacks of a little spoiling going on. Under 6 months is acceptable i think, over that then it's a marketing thing.

cheers
paul

I think the key giveaway here are the words "concept image" under the pictures on the website (at least the one I'm viewing now). Still, competition is good! OK, Canon, your turn - now the heat is on!

"For Professional." Good grief -- no proof-readers in Sony marketing any more?

Looks a lot like the Sony NEX-VG10 on steroids. The VG-10 sells for under US$2,000 with lens -- the 'pro' versions of Sony consumer cams have always been less than double the price of their baby cousins. So I have high hopes for a body only price nearer US$3,500 ... but that's just me hopin'.

Cheers,
GB

Shame it's so far away though, definitely smacks of a little spoiling going on. Under 6 months is acceptable i think, over that then it's a marketing thing.
Call me cynical then, but how long ago was the AF100 first announced? NAB? So that's 9 months by my reckoning. And I keep hearing things like "70% finalised" - are they going to meet their target date anyway?

Sony are saying "mid-2011", which could be between 6-9 months - it depends what "mid" means!

I think we're looking at more than a pro version of the VG10. Probably better sensor, and it's supposed to have true 1080p50(60) recording. Hence expect to pay for it.

It looks about the same size as a VG-10, but wider. But I'd really like an EVF. More than one XLR input would be nice, too. HD/SDI output would be sweet.
But talk about intriguing! If it's price-competitive with the AF100, 2011 is shaping up to be a really nice year - for us video techo-geeks, anyway.

So there was a second camcorder under the red cloth after all and a Panny competitor as well. I guess the price will be slightly more expensive than Panny and usually a little less professional friendly. The sensor will be from the NEX family to keep the cost down and my guess the shoe over the lens is for a VF.
We must salute Sony for being the only manufacturer with such a diversite line of cameras in every segment.

The sensor will be from the NEX family to keep the cost down ......
I'm not so sure. As said in another thread, I think it's interesting they are referring to it as a "Super35" sensor. (As with the F3 etc) If it was from the NEX family, I think it would be referred to as "APS-C". That makes me very optimistic.

The new NXCAM is on show here at Interbee. It is of a modular design with removable microphone holder, hand grip and many other parts. I don't think this will use the same sensor as the F3. The F3 is from the Atsugi factory and this is from the Shinagawa factory and they rarely share sensors. I suspect it will use an Alpha/NEX sensor but with an optical low pass filter specifically for video applications as opposed to the VG10's OLPF which has to work for both video and stills. On the rear of the camera body there is a huge opening that looks too big to be just a battery compartment so I suspect that some kind of media or recording section will dock into the rear of the camera. No genlock apparently, but other sync methods being investigated. I asked about this as I'm looking for a pair of cameras for 3D applications, so for me it will be F3's.

That's good info - so it's further ahead than I feared it might be. Any chance of posting some pics? (when you get time). Cheers Alister.

I'm not so sure. As said in another thread, I think it's interesting they are referring to it as a "Super35" sensor. (As with the F3 etc) If it was from the NEX family, I think it would be referred to as "APS-C". That makes me very optimistic.

Well, Super35 is 24mm x 13.5mm and APS-C is 23.5mm x 13.2 ... I can't believe the marketing department (or anyone, for that matter) would make anything of the 2% difference. But I have no special knowledge, just not reading anything into the Super35 reference.

Cheers,
GB

NEX sensor = not interested.

Well, Super35 is 24mm x 13.5mm and APS-C is 23.5mm x 13.2 ... I can't believe the marketing department (or anyone, for that matter) would make anything of the 2% difference.
Indeed, the physical sizes are similar, that's why there's so little implication for lens coverages. For marketing it may be a different story - the pro video range (inc the F3) have been referred to as "Super35", the consumer cameras as "APS-C". Little physical difference - big marketing difference.

But after the specific details Alister gives, it seems less likely......

Erik, why not interested? A VG10 sensor may not be as good as an F3 sensor, but with a video optimised OLPF it's likely to be comparable to the AF100 sensor?

David, I want those big pixels of the F3 sensor for low light. NEX sensor would barely be better than my EX in low light. Maybe this is another all new chip. Not the F3 sensor but another S35 chip? Hopefully similar to the sensor from the F3?

On another note AVCHD doesn't bother me so much. Although hard to edit I find that format to be pretty robust when I use it. I put 9mbps in the same timeline and 35mbps EX and it holds up "good enough". So I imagine the higher bitrate (24mbps i'm guessing?) would look really nice if not better than the EX format.

Here's further info on the camera. Looks like AVCHD 24mbps (as expected) but outputs uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2. PL lens mount is available. Price is around 6,000 Euros, which is about $,8,000 US. It's a bit pricier than the AF100, but isn't it also supposed to shoot in 1080/60P? I wonder if the lens is included ,and if it's the same lens as the VG-10's.

> News > Sony announce un-named low cost super 35mm CMOS warrior (http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/news_script.php?story=83)

Here's further info on the camera. Looks like AVCHD 24mbps (as expected) but outputs uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2. PL lens mount is available. Price is around 6,000 Euros, which is about $,8,000 US. It's a bit pricier than the AF100, but isn't it also supposed to shoot in 1080/60P? I wonder if the lens is included ,and if it's the same lens as the VG-10's.

> News > Sony announce un-named low cost super 35mm CMOS warrior (http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/news_script.php?story=83)

One cool thing that is mentioned in the article is this quote: "...likely to be supplied with a Sony / Minolta manufactured zoom lens as standard." Sony has me intrigued with their latest option.

Af100 is 4/3, this is 35mm. Understandable the higher price pt. Canon, tell us yr game quick before the $$ flies!

NEX sensor = not interested.

Latest web reports about the Sony event in Germany today suggest it is the exact same sensor as what's in the F3. I could be wrong (I was not there) but that's potentially very exciting news in a 6000 Euro camera (for me at least, as I can't afford an F3, at least not yet!). The footage released today from the F3 (see that forum section) is absolutely stunning!

The S35 acronym instead of APS-C is purely for marketing reasons.Since is a pro version it has "pro-like" specs.
The sensor cannot be the same as F3, the price difference is huge to justify the extra functionality of the F3, so IMO is a tweaked NEX sensor.
Don't forget that usually $=E in number not in exchange rate, so it will be $6000 if the speculation is right. They charge 50% extra for 20% more sensor area, smaller form factor, interoperability with the NX line and the Sony badge, which is a lot but not absurd.
I still think the F3 is the way to go, provided it meets the expectations. Otherwise one can stick with DSLR's, because the instances where the 101 and the NXS35 are going to differ in quality are not that many and not always appreciated by the client/end viewer.

I disagree with you Emmanuel, the F3 is going to have S-Log, it's going to have 4:4:4 and the different mount which can us the 3 prime lens and the servo lenses that they are to show at NAB. It's not crippled by AVCHD. I can see them using the same sensor totally. It makes more sense to do it as the nxcam version is not going to steal thunder from the F3. Maybe amongst those who can't afford the F3 but I think those are the people Sony still wants to reach out to with this new modular camcorder. If some one wants SDI out I can see that being a extra modular piece one would have to buy. For me I'll take the AVCHD for my event jobs.

The S35 acronym instead of APS-C is purely for marketing reasons.
Not so, they are different sizes, as R Geoff Baker commented on a few posts back. Yes, the difference is slight in terms of area, but we are talking about two different sizes - so an APS-C sensor can't simply be labelled S35 for marketing.

FWIW, Sony is always developing newer sensors - basically "plug in" upgrades for existing cameras (higher specs of course), meaning they can sit behind a lens/mount with well known characteristics, so just the sensor and associated electronics are improved/tweaked...

It's a virtual certainty that Sony will be releasing a new "full frame" high rez sensor for the still camera side of the biz (which Sony has finally committed to also shooting video, preferably as well as possible). The A700 and A900 Alpha cameras are VERY well known to be overdue for replacement, and the A700 is discontinued. There's a very good chance that there will be some new high performance CMOS chips available that can migrate into the video side of the offerings.

While the NEX cameras (E mount) so far have been a little on the "toy" side of the equation, they've also been selling like sliced bread, as have the new SLT Alpha cameras. Sony knows there's a "professional" interest in these smaller, lighter, high performance camera "systems", probably a lot more than even they expected, and they no doubt will fill out the lines as quickly as they can. The E mount was designed from the ground up to be a VIDEO oriented lens mount, as they didn't feel the A mount was well suited to video.

For $10000 more you get dual HDSDI, the ability to use a budget lens, maybe a few extra features and ergonomics, and 35mbits MPEG2 instead of 24Mbits AVCHD.
I don't think you can justify a 160% price hike for the F3.
There must be a differentiation in the sensor or another major shortcoming in the new camera.

here's some video of the prototype:

YouTube - [InterBEE2010]SONY??? E?????NXCAM???? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9gmjjFF89I&feature=player_embedded)

Notice on the info card at the beginning, it clearly states 1080/60p. 30p. 24p.

On the top handle, what looks like a mic holder, but pointing the wrong direction - is that for a viewfinder?

Bloom has put some info on his blog.

http://philipbloom.net/2010/11/17/f3nxcam/

....There must be a differentiation in the sensor or another major shortcoming in the new camera.
You are probably right about the latter Emmanuel. Philip Bloom and a couple other people have confirmed it is the same sensor as the F3.

One of the pricing differential "reasons" is now clear. The new NXCAM will be "crippled" to do 25p or 50p in Europe and 24p and 60p in USA etc. Not switchable - Region locked.

here's some video of the prototype:

YouTube - [InterBEE2010]SONY??? E?????NXCAM???? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9gmjjFF89I&feature=player_embedded)

Notice on the info card at the beginning, it clearly states 1080/60p. 30p. 24p.

On the top handle, what looks like a mic holder, but pointing the wrong direction - is that for a viewfinder?


What exactly is that thing attached to the cold shoe? Is that suppose to be a mic holder?

Ozzy

F3 sensor means it's a winner. Are they going for a RED one type deal when it's just a block and you buy everything separate? Even handles? Aww whatever, I want one.

So sticker price of 8 grand US, means maybe 6 or 7 street?

I hope they don't cripple it somehow, like for no apparent reason it has more noise or whatever.

It looks about the same size as a VG-10, but wider. But I'd really like an EVF. More than one XLR input would be nice, too. HD/SDI output would be sweet.
But talk about intriguing! If it's price-competitive with the AF100, 2011 is shaping up to be a really nice year - for us video techo-geeks, anyway.

Does anyone see a way to attach an evf to this thing? How about adding extra xlrs with a beachtek or juicedlink?

I think it's too early to determine anything from looking at the body but if I were to say something anyway, I'd say that you'll have to piece things together so if you want it hand held, you can make it hand held and if you want it shoulder mounted you can make it shoulder mounted. Same goes for the view finder and extra XLR inputs. In other words they'll probably be a list of parts you can purchase for it. This can definitely increase the price.

Hopefully it will indeed have 1080 60p.
I really don't like the way they worded it since it sounds like theirs no guarantee.
"There is also a plan to implement 1080p (60p / 30p / 24p*2 or 50p / 25p) recording modes."

They wondered how Sony could make the F3 type camera as cheap as an EX camera. Simple. Make it a block with a sensor on the front... :)

Red scarlet killer?

Seems like RED will have it's buyers, regardless of other companies similarly featured/priced cameras. Perhaps as loyal a group of owners as there is. And people who've waited 2-3 years to get their cameras probably won't be easily swayed away....

But lower budget TV shows - reality and such - may be tempted away from RED by a simpler work flow and bigger brand name.

For guys getting into the game I'd guess it will ultimately come down to street price for a total package (lens, battery, etc) plus hype. In that respect, I'd guess it'll steal more of the AF100's thunder then the Epic.

One of the pricing differential "reasons" is now clear. The new NXCAM will be "crippled" to do 25p or 50p in Europe and 24p and 60p in USA etc. Not switchable - Region locked.

With the EU video camera import duty, it would always be a bit more expensive than in the US anyway. I imagine Sony are trying to prevent grey imports.Could be the frame rate is a hard wired rather than a firmware feature.

Europe is universally 25p except for theatrical feature films, so it's not really an issue in production terms unless you're shooting for north American clients for their home market. Quite a few feature films have been shot at 25 fps.

Looks wise, currently the F3 looks more like what you'd expect this new camera to look like. Although, Sony say it's a prototype, so (like the REDs) everything could change in that department.