Probably they want to discriminate from the video herd or they have been addicted to the VDSLR look. IMO opinion 2/3 inch(or S16), since it gives you 2.2X the DOF of S35, is a nice comprise between cost, weight and and DOFability. But I guess I am a minority.

Interesting to see if that changes when the Scarlet 2/3" cameras come out in a few months. So far, the images posted look less video than the DSLRs.

Interesting to see if that changes when the Scarlet 2/3" cameras come out in a few months. So far, the images posted look less video than the DSLRs.

"In a few months?" We'll see, but don't hold your breath. 2012 has been tossed around as the release date. But at least it'll give you time to save up for one. From what I've seen, it looks like a really nice camera.

Yes, I was a bit wary of giving a time scale, but spring/early summer for the fixed lens Scarlet seems to be possible. Of course, how quickly you can actaully get one after ordering is another matter.

An alternative if you want an ENG lens on a large sensor camera: http://blog.abelcine.com/2010/12/28/hdx2-23-lenses-on-large-sensor-cameras/

Currently 10 x zooms S35 zooms are expensive compared to the cost of this camera and they definitely don't have any auto functions. They are also big.

In the future, there may be lower cost 10 x zooms, but past experience shows it takes time for these to come out. You can't expect complete low cost systems to come straight away.

I don't see why people are going crazy for 35mm sensor run and cameras, there are so many practical problems. Keep that for 2/3" and smaller, those cameras are great for that type of operation.

I see several other ppl on different forums who are thinking about using this cam as a 'run and gun' camera.

The reasons are:

- the s35 sensor general video image quality and especially the low light video quality is mindblowing. Definately much better than any 2/3 camera

- price. If sony can give a good zoom lens with 'auto everything' option for a very good price, then it can be the ultimate camera (also beating AF100 which has very noisy image and has no room rocker)

The scarlet is mainly made for controlled situations (general movies), as there is no IS (for example F3 has IS), and still not sure about the auto functions. I don't know if the final modell will have a dedicated zoom rocker Definately NOT a good run and gun camera.

Also I don't believe that for 4-5-6K usd the Scarlet will be useable. You have to seriously pimp the camera with 10-15k usd accesories, so the idea of cheap camera will be gone.

As I know there is no new 2/3 camera in thr sub 6-7k usd price range. The closest one is the sony ex1 with 1/2 inch sensor, but as Alister Champan's test showed, the F3 18 db gain is around 0 db gain with Ex1.

Let me say I am sick of the opinion of several pro, who are saying: the s35 is a pro sensor, any camera with such sensor can be used for 'big' movies only and any other 'pro-like' situations. I think the camera user should decide which tool if he wants, and not the so called pros. Like everyone, including the run and gun camera operators want very good video image quality. It can't be resticted as 'the pros don't allow to use it'.

In my opinion there is no low or high reputation usage of camcorders. I think every user, including the feature film makers, nature film makers, wedding video makers, run and gun video makers, etc also can get the chance to buy the ultimate tool to make the best possible image quality.

There are lots of discussion about the shallow DOF is not good for 'run and gun' style of videos. But who sad that the run and guy cameraman wants to use shallow dof ? On the lens there are different F numbers, like 2.8, 3.5, 4, etc. Noone is pushing anyone to use F/4, it is possible the select f11 or f22 on the lens. Voila, shallow DOF problem is solved, so anything around f/11 can be used for big DOF.

If i look at the 6k usd price of the nxcam, i really hope that sony can give use some very cheap, also very good quality lens. But if we need to buy (i don't care about renting) 10-20k arri lenses, why the cheap camera price ? Anyone who can pay 10-20k for a lens or 100k for a complete arri lens package has so much money in his pocket that he can buy F3 or any other pro Sony modell.

There is no IS (assuming you mean image stabilisation) on the F3 at the moment. That will be a lens feature. Possibly someone will come up with a way to adapt a stabilised DSLR lens or produce an uber expensive stabilised PL lens.

As I said above, a fast s35 zoom of 10x or more is going to probably cost more than the camera and I question how many people will be prepared to pay that kind of money. Certainly those with deep pockets or big budgets, but that often excludes the "run n gun" crowd.

DSLR zooms don't track focus so very difficult to use run n gun.

If you going to shoot at f11 you may as well use a 2/3" or 1/2" camera. Yes the F3 can produce very nice images, but so can many, many other cameras. The PMW-350 produces a very nice, clean image and without the lens restrictions.

The problem is this. You stick a fully manual, shallow DoF camera in the hands of someone that is already right at the edge of what they are able to get away with and it will be too much to deal with. Ultra critical manual focus, manual exposure, no zoom. They will soon get fed up with it because while from time to time they might get some amazing results they will end up throwing away footage that normally would have been straight forward for them to shoot.

I have a pair of F3's on order, but there is no way I'm selling my EX1R. It's all about having the right tool for the job. It's like a farmer buying an Ferrari to plough the fields because it has more horsepower than his tractor.

I see several other ppl on different forums who are thinking about using this cam as a 'run and gun' camera.

Let me say I am sick of the opinion of several pro, who are saying: the s35 is a pro sensor, any camera with such sensor can be used for 'big' movies only and any other 'pro-like' situations. I think the camera user should decide which tool if he wants, and not the so called pros. Like everyone, including the run and gun camera operators want very good video image quality. It can't be resticted as 'the pros don't allow to use it'.

In my opinion there is no low or high reputation usage of camcorders. I think every user, including the feature film makers, nature film makers, wedding video makers, run and gun video makers, etc also can get the chance to buy the ultimate tool to make the best possible image quality.

There are lots of discussion about the shallow DOF is not good for 'run and gun' style of videos. But who sad that the run and guy cameraman wants to use shallow dof ? On the lens there are different F numbers, like 2.8, 3.5, 4, etc. Noone is pushing anyone to use F/4, it is possible the select f11 or f22 on the lens. Voila, shallow DOF problem is solved, so anything around f/11 can be used for big DOF.

If i look at the 6k usd price of the nxcam, i really hope that sony can give use some very cheap, also very good quality lens. But if we need to buy (i don't care about renting) 10-20k arri lenses, why the cheap camera price ? Anyone who can pay 10-20k for a lens or 100k for a complete arri lens package has so much money in his pocket that he can buy F3 or any other pro Sony modell.

I think the reason that so many "Pros" are opposed to the idea of the super35 sensors being used in a run and gun setting is because in certain cases is impractical.

The fact is yes, the sensor is huge and should be great in low light. But then comes the lens, which if you need a zoom lens is going to cut a couple of stops. Then for deeper DOF, stop down further. This in itself will negate any benefit in low light performance, and may even make it slightly worse.

Also, if HD and DSLR video have shown me nothing else, it is that many people have a ton of trouble not only achieving focus, but maintaining it especially on moving targets. Even on big tv shows, I can't tell you how many times i've spotted a focus point being on someone's ear rather than the eye. It takes a ton of precision and practice to be a good focus puller, and for the moment no camera can match it even closely.

And finally, I'd rather that Sony not include a lens on the nxcam version if it's just going to be a cheap pos. A huge sensor needs good glass. People are already testing different lenses on the AF-100 and the differences are breathtakingly bad on certain lenses.

Just my $0.02

One thing about Scarlet 2/3 vs. existing s35 and ff35 sensors: Scarlet's rolling shutter is likely to be negligible. That will make it viable in handheld or shoulder mount (with accessories) configuration.

Personally, I find stabilization to be as big a challenge as focus when shooting with a large CMOS sensor (5D2).

I don't think anyone is stopping people from using which ever sensor size they want. Although, you do find there's the right tool for the job you're doing and it's not always the largest sensor.

Regarding prices, I wouldn't say any of these camera base prices are what you'd use for a working kit. They usually need accessories. Also, don't expect cheap, very good quality glass, more pro stills lenses type prices.

Abel cine have an adapter that allows HD lenses to be used on large sensor cameras.
HDx2: 2/3″ Lenses on Large Sensor Cameras | CineTechnica (http://blog.abelcine.com/2010/12/28/hdx2-23-lenses-on-large-sensor-cameras/)
However, these lenses aren't cheap, but if you already own a 2/3" HD zoom it could be useful..

I admit I've been rethinking this whole thing. I actually don't like shallow DOF. Most of the time I would be setting the camera up to make the DOF pretty deep. The one area that is selling me is the lack of noise and low light ability. Even if I had to close the iris down to get useable focus, even if it turned out to only be as sensitive as the EX3 after I adjusted the lens, it would still have 60% less noise. That's a pretty big plus.

I looked at a VG10 recently, and it's a really nice cam. It can be an inexpensive training tool til the new NXCAM comes out. Plus, can't the E-mount and A-mount lenses be used on the NXCAM? I thought I saw a pic of the NXCAM with the e-mount 18-200 zoom, although I doubt the new cam and the VG10 have the same sensor.

I may get the VG10 just so I can learn about different lenses and smaller depths of field.

When I started out many years ago as a BBC assistant film cameraman, shooting with 35mm Arris and Cameflexes, part of my kit was a tape measure and American Cinematographer depth-of-field calculator tables. When the lighting cameraman had chosen the lens and given me the f. stop, I'd work out the distance to the subject and how much DOF I'd have to play with, pulling focus as necessary to pre-determined marks.
I'm slightly amused by the arrogance of some new-comers to shallow DOF cameras who think that they can just pick up the camera, and start shooting docs and other run 'n gun items. What's the betting that we're going to see a plethora of videos with hunting for focus shots - and shaky as well...
Get real guys - as it has been said earlier, choose the camera for the job; narrow DOF looks fine in some cases, but don't over-do it, 1/3 sensors are perfectly good for many productions - and it'll give you more time to concentrate on the subject matter.
Just don't diminish the craft...

Personally, I find stabilization to be as big a challenge as focus when shooting with a large CMOS sensor (5D2).

My personal experience with 5DII and 7D is the exact opposite. I manage to attain much better stabilized handheld shots, than with the 1/3inch camcorders I was using before and I attribute that to the sensor's size, given their unfriendly form factor (I don't use rigs, because it negates the portability advantage).
Does anybody else has the same experience?

.Even if I had to close the iris down to get useable focus, even if it turned out to only be as sensitive as the EX3 after I adjusted the lens, it would still have 60% less noise. That's a pretty big plus.

It's a matter of deciding your own personal priorities for the type of work you're doing. If you need a compact 14 x zoom lens as a priority, your decision could go the other way.

"In a few months?" We'll see, but don't hold your breath. 2012 has been tossed around as the release date. But at least it'll give you time to save up for one. From what I've seen, it looks like a really nice camera.

Jim Jannard mentioned late summer on a Scarlet thread. With all the build up, I expected a bit sooner than that, but given they need to meet a surge without bugs that seems to be a target date.

Hopefully, they'll also have essential modules like audio available from the start. Although, I wouldn't make any plans until you've got a camera in your hands.

One thing about Scarlet 2/3 vs. existing s35 and ff35 sensors: Scarlet's rolling shutter is likely to be negligible. That will make it viable in handheld or shoulder mount (with accessories) configuration.

On what basis do you make that assumption? Sensor size has nothing to do with the amount of rolling shutter. It is the read out and refresh rate that makes the difference. Alexa has negligible skew and that;s s35. Don't put all s35 sensors in the same basket as DSLR sensors designed for slow speed read out.


What on earth has image stability got to do with sensor size? Ergonomics... yes, but not the actual size of the sensor. Shoot the same field of view with two different sensor sizes and the amount of image motion will be the same for the same amount of camera shake.

Jim Jannard mentioned late summer on a Scarlet thread. With all the build up, I expected a bit sooner than that, but given they need to meet a surge without bugs that seems to be a target date.

Hopefully, they'll also have essential modules like audio available from the start. Although, I wouldn't make any plans until you've got a camera in your hands.
I believe Jannard has said spring for Epic-X, with Epic-S to follow shortly after (late spring). The "late summer" reference was to when hoi polloi (i.e., those without reservations) might receive their Epics.

Scarlet 2/3, which I mentioned in particular, can shoot a very high frame rate (150 fps burst). That means it has an exceptionally fast readout for a CMOS sensor. We should be able to throw that camera around with minimal jello. I have no idea about the read-reset times of the NXCAM line, but it's also CMOS. Has a spec been released? My experience is with DSLRs.

The 5D2 has a 25ms rolling shutter delay. In theory, a 150fps camera would have no more than a 6.7s rolling shutter time, and it would probably be closer to 4 or 5ms in practice. When shooting 24fps handheld, we'd have stuttering and/or motion blur issues well before rolling shutter comes into play.

RED's specs slower frame rates for its larger sensor cams. That might be due to resolution rather than size though.

I believe Jannard has said spring for Epic-X, with Epic-S to follow shortly after (late spring). The "late summer" reference was to when hoi polloi (i.e., those without reservations) might receive their Epics.

All rather confusing in a Scarlet thread, but some time later this year may cover the Scarlet 2/3" fixed zoom I suppose.

All rather confusing in a Scarlet thread, but some time later this year may cover the Scarlet 2/3" fixed zoom I suppose.
My bad. When I reread the thread, it wasn't actually clear which camera Jim Jannard was referring to. Someone had asked about the availability of Scarlet or Epic-S. He replied, "End of summer." That could mean either camera -- or possibly both -- will be available by that time.

Scarlet 2/3, which I mentioned in particular, can shoot a very high frame rate (150 fps burst). That means it has an exceptionally fast readout for a CMOS sensor.

As you say, it has a fast burst rate, but can it sustain that fast read out continuously without cooking the sensor? The F3 can shoot at full resolution 60P without any time limits (outputting over Dual Link HDSDi, no internal recording). Red One can do 120fps at 2k for short periods, yet at normal frame rates exhibits a similar amount of skew to an EX as both use a simple continuous rolling scan system where the read speed varies with frame rate. The EX is 2x frame rate and I believe that Red One is the same so you have a half frame period for integration followed by a half frame readout period. This allows the sensor to be used for both progressive and interlace.

That's interesting. I wonder if they might upgrade the control circuitry to enable fast reads at lower framerates in their second generation cameras.

I tested the 25ms skew time on the 5D2 at 30 fps and assumed that it wouldn't change at 24 fps. I need to do another test...

Here's some new video of the prototype:

YouTube - [InterBEE2010]SONY???03 E???????NXCAM??????? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdXMipeN-HI&feature=related)

YouTube - Sony NXCAM Super 35MM Development - CES 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uslCzD0bheY&feature=related)

Apologies if they've already been posted.
That handle thingy on top looks a little weird. But I can see where that front circle clamp can support the EX3 viewfinder.
Hmm..it clearly states 1080/60P.

Interesting that Sony has made public a "tentative" price of $6000.

BTW I'd bet that Sony is responding to feedback from the prototypes at the trade shows to make design changes.

Keeping my eye on it. Hope it turns out to have at least the same in camera picture quality as it's big brother.

Hope it turns out to have at least the same in camera picture quality as it's big brother.
That's some very optimistic prognosis,
I would rather expect NXCAM to be on par with AF100

Well it will already up the F3 in that it can do 1080x60p in camera. The F3 needs an external recorder to do that.

Some update here Sony NXCAM 35 Film and Digital Times: News (http://www.fdtimes.com/news/sony/sony-nxcam-35/) , it is more confirmation of what was speculated. One very important thing is that it will have the same sensor than the F3. New info is that it will come with two xlr input. They did not talk about the sdi output but I guess we will not have to wait to long because Sony will be launching it at NAB and expect delivery by June.

Sony seems to have embraced the s35 video market. They seem to have planned a whole line of product from the nex 5 camera in the low end, to the ultra high end with their 4k(8k) camera.

Here's even more info from DV.com:

Sony?s Big (NAB Show) Reveal ? Part I (http://www.dv.com/article/103538)

Based upon the pics, it looks to be quite small. Interesting is the look-down monitor, like a Hasselblad.

No news on the 10 bit sdi output that was said before. Let just hope.

Here's an example of a Hasselblad.

I've always liked the form factor of Hasselblads. If the NXCAM S-35 is similar, as the people who've seen it have said, it'd be a pretty sweet camera, at least as far as appearance.

Based upon the pics, it looks to be quite small. Interesting is the look-down monitor, like a Hasselblad.[/quote]

So, according to the article, Sony has three new NXCams to be revealed at NAB. The S35mm camcorder, a compact sized camcorder, probably the NXCam version of the HVR-A1, and a 3D NXCam. Should be interesting to see what all 3 cams have to offer. The article also said that we'll get a look at the pictures of these cameras after some embargo which ends on March 23. That's only four weeks away. So, we'll soon know what these camcorders look like.


Ozzy

3D, 35mm, super compact, nice! I'm excited to see Sony's offerings, but I think I'll be missing my 3rd NAB in a row.

Heath

I'll be checking this cam out in as much detail as possible. I'll share what I find out.

In both articles there was no mention for a HDSDI OUT. Does anybody know if it is implemented? For me is very crucial.

One thing about Scarlet 2/3 vs. existing s35 and ff35 sensors: Scarlet's rolling shutter is likely to be negligible.

Why do you say that? All the other 2/3 or 1/3 cmos sensors exhibit the same amount of rolling shutter, why would scarlet be any different?

Scarlet 2/3, which I mentioned in particular, can shoot a very high frame rate (150 fps burst). That means it has an exceptionally fast readout for a CMOS sensor.

Or it may have the same rolling shutter as RED in 2k mode. Which means about half, but also only 1/4 of the pixels is used.

Or it may have a "slightly" better rolling shutter when shooting high fps but still have a lot of wiggle when doing regular speed.

In both articles there was no mention for a HDSDI OUT. Does anybody know if it is implemented? For me is very crucial.

It's odd that no one who's seen the camera has mentioned this. That would have been one of the first things I'd have checked for, as I suspect most people on this forum would have as well.

Since this is called an NXCAM, and the existing NXCAM, the NX5U, does have a 10-bit HD/SDI port, it would seem logical to have such a port. The competition, the AF100, certainly does (8-bit, anyway).

In both articles there was no mention for a HDSDI OUT. Does anybody know if it is implemented? For me is very crucial.

If that info doesn't surface before NAB I'll be sure to find out. I need it as well.

It's odd that no one who's seen the camera has mentioned this. That would have been one of the first things I'd have checked for.
I strongly suspect the people who saw it are under an embargo regarding a lot of details, the self "censored" photographs being an obvious example. It seems likely that external outputs are something else this applies to.
Since this is called an NXCAM, and the existing NXCAM, the NX5U, does have a 10-bit HD/SDI port, it would seem logical to have such a port.
Seems sensible reasoning.

FS-100 NXCAM S35mm Sony Camera Has A Name:

On the 23rd of March expect that the new Sony NXCAM Super 35mm Cine Compact camera with removable lens will officially be called the FS-100? You can also bet money that regional editions of the Sony NXCAM will be sold as the FS-100E, FS-100P, FS-100U etc but will come to be universally called the Sony FS-100 NXCAM camera. NB theses are tips we received and sources have a great track record so far.
Prices bandied about for the Sony FS-100 NXCAM S35mm camera have been $7,000 and $6,000 but we have had a few whispers that it could well be lower than $6k.
Keep watching for the March 23 NXCAM showing when all is revealed.


Sony FS-100 NXCAM S35mm E Mount
FS-100 features a single 23.6mm x 13.3mm F11 ISO800 Exmor Super35 CMOS sensor which is the same as the the PMW-F3 camera Sensor.
Interchangeable lenses attach to the camera via E-mount. Third party manufacturer lens mounts will be available for other type of camera lenses.
Records AVCHD Full HD.
The S35mm NXCAM sports a 3.5″ flip-out monitor sits on the top of the camera which makes the modular design look like a Hasselblad camera.
Expect plenty of 1/4-20 and 3/8-16 screw mounts on the cameras body.
There will be a mic extension removable top handle and right side hand grip also removable.

Keep an eye out for Sony announcements on the Sony FS-100 NXCAM.

FS-100 NXCAM S35mm Sony Camera Has A Name: | Cinescopophilia (http://cinescopophilia.com/?p=5058)

"FS-100"
this is the same name of a cannon consumer camcorder. Not that anybody are going to confuse the two, but shouldn't this be a consideration?

I think that is H FS100...

While I appreciate Cinemascopophilia's guarantees on the name of this camera, I think I'll wait until the official announcement from the Sony Corporation before I call this camera the FS-100.

FS-100 is also the "Firestore" disk... I had one for my HPX171...

And a SDI framestore card from Axon :P

Big surprise here Den Lennie Teases News Of A Prototype Camera He Is Using: Sony FS-100? | Cinescopophilia (http://cinescopophilia.com/?p=5194) we could be seing the first footage of the NXCAM/FS100 camera.

creativevideo in uk has changed the status of the new NXCAM S35 from coming soon to Expected: 02/05/2011

creativevideo in uk has changed the status of the new NXCAM S35 from coming soon to Expected: 02/05/2011

That would be May 2, 2011 for us yanks.

Sorry, Glen already posted the same info.