With the EU video camera import duty, it would always be a bit more expensive than in the US anyway.EU import duty on camcorders is 4.9% so it doesn't lead to a vast difference in price. VAT (sales tax) is much higher at around 20-25% but I assume that most purchasers of this camera will be professionals who are registered for VAT & thus able to reclaim that.

Indeed, it's not a big factor, a larger one may be dealers and others within the chain, not being so willing to cut the profit margins to the same extend as say the US.

For example, well known jeans are much cheaper in the US than in the UK

It's interesting to see how Sony and Panasonic especially, are carving out these micro-niches. A few threads back someone asked if this would be a Scarlet Killer. I'm not a Red fanboy, having not shot with one, but as far as capabilities go, they and Sony just different offerings from different philosophies.

Sony et al., have product lines to protect, divisions to differentiate and so on. Red is basically saying, let's go for it! Shooting RAW, multiple data rates, having HDR, etc. with all their models!

What IS nice is that what ever manufacturer we go with, we get more choices.

I'm not sure how this new Sony offering will turn out, but it is interesting to see how various features are implemented/withheld, and how different companies are trying to give different niche markets what they think they want. I guess the suspense has its enjoyments, like speculating in these forums. OTOH, it can get to be a bit irritating. I'll go away now...

1080 60p is a game changer. I can't wait. What is the price for the body and lenses and what's the release date?

So far quoted price has been about 6,000 Euros. No idea what the US price will be. Release date is around summer, 2011.

Awesome. I wonder how much lenses will be.

I'm wondering how shoot-ready one of these would be out of the box (not very, I'd wager) and how much it'll cost to get it there.

It's not a Red killer. It's not a Panny killer. It's not a DSLR killer. It's just another option, and its exciting.

I'm still very content with my HPX for day-to-day work and my 7D for when I want a more cinematic look. Both will continue to make me money until well after ALL these cameras are out (and at least the first generation is passed, to get the bugs out).

When the dust settles, I'll probably go with Red, since the idea of footage capture at 2,3 and 4k sounds really exciting.

I wonder if this thing on the side (red arrow) is the mic? If it comes with a lens, handgrip, and that being the mic it could be ready to shoot out of the box.

http://www.angelfire.com/al/metalalien/video/nx3.jpg

Thanks for that pic, EriK. It gives details to the dark areas in the Sony video. The rear plug is definitely an XLR input, not a power socket. And the battery compartment at first looked like some kind of memory slots to me.

As far as that being a mic, that's a good a guess as any.

F3 sensor means it's a winner. Are they going for a RED one type deal when it's just a block and you buy everything separate? Even handles? Aww whatever, I want one.

So sticker price of 8 grand US, means maybe 6 or 7 street?

I hope they don't cripple it somehow, like for no apparent reason it has more noise or whatever.
The US$8000 figure will be high IMO. That figure was derived by a previous poster applying the EUro/USD spot FX-rate to the apparent stated price of Eur6000. These products are ALWAYS much less expensive in USA, than Europe, so my guess is that the US$price MSRP will be around US$6000 and street price.... probably very close the Pana AF100, and maybe actually less. Just my view on that. Depends on final spec of course, and if it comes with a lens.

The mere fact that this news was rushed out as a spoiler (as Mr.Wilkinson pointed out, and i agree with him) i think demonstrates that Sony see the AF100 as direct competitor and i am sure the price will be vey close or actually less. My guess is around street-price of US$4200-4500 (or maybe actually less - Sony know Canon and now pana have a big headstart in the large-sensor video market, so they will be looking to lever themselves in there with aggressive pricing i would think). But it's really still a long way off. Spring or summer isn't that close really - i am sure Sony will be looking hard at how the AF100 sells.

Well the cheaper the better. If it makes video anywhere near the F3, things will never be the same. Besides minor updates where could they go from here? They could do 4k but that would kill what's so special about this chip, the incredible low light and dynamic range.

Bah who cares, just give me one.

Oh and you're welcome Glen. I included that picture of the back for that very reason.

I gather the new camera isn't totally finalised and Sony has done a bit of a RED by showing prototypes/images, which may or may not be representative of the final camera.

I'm qualifying this because Ford introduced the Sierra as a concept car and everyone said that Ford wouldn't manufacture a car like that, but sure enough the following year it came out.
Ford Sierra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Sierra)

Well - the time from announcement from promised launch is probably LESS than the AF100 is going to be. It would also seem to be quite logical to announce it at the same time as the F3, which itself was announced only a few months before launch.

The US$8000 figure will be high IMO. That figure was derived by a previous poster applying the EUro/USD spot FX-rate to the apparent stated price of Eur6000. These products are ALWAYS much less expensive in USA, than Europe, so my guess is that the US$price MSRP will be around US$6000 and street price.... probably very close the Pana AF100, and maybe actually less. Just my view on that. Depends on final spec of course, and if it comes with a lens.
.

That poster was me, sorry. I am ignorant of the international exchange rates. It was a guess, hopefully a wrong one. I prefer it be in the $4,000 - 6,000 range.

Well - the time from announcement from promised launch is probably LESS than the AF100 is going to be. It would also seem to be quite logical to announce it at the same time as the F3, which itself was announced only a few months before launch.

That's why I qualified it, since I read that they seem to be still working on aspects of it. These could be enabled features or perhaps the external design. Although, I imagine the latter tends to lock into the market's mind more than internal features.

What strikes me is the whole modular form factor, which does remind me of the reds. The emount ofcourse means it can use any lens ever made since 1945 right out of the box, since the adapters are already available.

I was playing last night with my new/old soligar 135mm f/2 on the vg10. To my surprise it was usable shot off a plain 501 head. It's really a sweet piece of glass for around 150. Another great low light deal is the Korean 85mm 1.4, which by all accounts is very sharp, and 240 new.

One would hope for a e-mount wide zoom of current nikon quality and speed someday. A lens like that in the 2-3k range would have a market waiting. Third party lens makers have got to eyeing the whole nex market.

Modular is fine but this thing looks like a brick. Looks more like a big DSLR than a video camera.

I've been thinking about it and I sure am going to miss the EX work flow and just all the hardware and so forth. XDcam EX is so easy to edit and looks so nice. AVCHD is such a pain, the high bitrate stuff even more so, to the point of it being stupid hard. At AVC 24mbps I would probably have to transcode everything into something else before dropping it into a timeline.

The modular approach is more what you'd expect for the F3 (which does look rather pro-consumer), rather than the NXCAM model.

BTW It's amazing how large the F3 looks with a 35mm motion picture zoom lens & matte box fitted.

All my experience is with the venerable pd170 and vx2k. I've been really surprised that tapeless prosumer cams- the good ones- all seem just as heavy or heavier.

Does anyone know how much this one weighs?

I finally bit the bullet and bought a vg10, which is wonderfully light. As most know it has a number of very silly limitations.

It is a flat out scandal that the Sony promo shows indie wannabe wandering around Bali with a tripod, while in fact vg10 tripod mount is ridiculous.

There is such an obvious niche for something between this 6k model and vg10. All they need is a better build and some more controls with the vg10-- well also moire filtering-- and it would be an instant star.

As far as the avhcd work flow, it seems no more pain than what it takes now to properly downsize for good DVD quality from the various hd codecs--- you can spend days reading those threads.

Seems to me that for less than $2k, the VG10 could have had a better OLPF, 24p (Canon has this on pretty much all of its AVCHD models), better controls, and 10-bit HDMI out (how much does 10- vs. 8-bit really add the cost of manufacture -- a few bucks?). XLRs are nice, but not really necessary -- if desired, they can be added on (and are, in fact, and add-on module for the 2/3-inch Scarlet).

Panasonic hobbled the AF100 with 8-bit HD-SDI/HDMI. Sony's hobbling their models with, in my opinion (obviously), excessively high price points. I really hope that Canon steps up to the challenge.

Seems to me that for less than $2k, the VG10 could have had a better OLPF, 24p (Canon has this on pretty much all of its AVCHD models), better controls, and 10-bit HDMI out (how much does 10- vs. 8-bit really add the cost of manufacture -- a few bucks?). XLRs are nice, but not really necessary -- if desired, they can be added on (and are, in fact, and add-on module for the 2/3-inch Scarlet).

Panasonic hobbled the AF100 with 8-bit HD-SDI/HDMI. Sony's hobbling their models with, in my opinion (obviously), excessively high price points. I really hope that Canon steps up to the challenge.

I consider XLRs very necessary on a professional video camera. Regardless of the sensor size, these are still video cameras. I want to plug in my mics without any attached gizmos.
I suspect10-bit over 8-bit is not just "a few bucks" to manufacture. Not sure why, but only the higher end cameras have this feature.
The VG-10 is marketed as a consumer cam. It still has the aliasing and moire issues that HD-DSLRs suffer from. The NXCAM shouldn't have these problems. But, you gotta pay for the upgrade. So far, this new cam sound pretty good.

Seems to me that for less than $2k, the VG10 could have had a better OLPF, ...........
If it had a better (for video) OLPF, it would seriously compromise any ability to take still photos. With current technology, manufacturers don't have any realistic option - either compromise the still ability, or accept a high level of aliasing.
and 10-bit HDMI out (how much does 10- vs. 8-bit really add the cost of manufacture -- a few bucks? ...........
It's not the giving of a 10 bit output that's the problem - rather whether or not it's worth it. If the camera noise threshold is above a certain level, 10 bit is pointless - all it's doing is encoding the noise with greater precision. Unfortunately, "10 bit recording" has got locked onto as a good marketing buzzword, whether it's worth it or not. The F3 may be one of the few cameras below $20,000 where 10 bit (and S-log etc) really does make a big difference.

It's not the 10 bit recording you're paying for - it's a camera with the front end specs to make 10 bit worth the effort.

Wow the red users are up in arms over sony's two new cameras. Bugs me they are so convinced a 1080p camera is not relevant these days. I feel the same thing about a 4k cameras. Hell I watch 95% of my movies at the Drive In and that is barely VHS quality.. ha ha.

The 1080p market is much larger than 4k and that won't change for many years, especially when the world is in an economic recession.

The current push is 3D, rather than more resolution, which is great to have at acquisition, but there's a lot of "good enough" by producers (which has generally always been the case, that's why DIs are mostly 2k).

Wow the red users are up in arms over sony's two new cameras. Bugs me they are so convinced a 1080p camera is not relevant these days. I feel the same thing about a 4k cameras. Hell I watch 95% of my movies at the Drive In and that is barely VHS quality.. ha ha.

What's a Drive-In? You mean like a burger place. :)

What's a Drive-In? You mean like a burger place. :)


Hey look everyone, Bob baited me to post a video. :)

Thanks Bob, ha ha. (I really wish we had a choice on whether the video would embed or just be a link)

Las Vegas 5 Drive In Movie on Vimeo

Thanks for sharing, that Erik -- back in high school, I
was a projectionist at our local drive-in. Good times...

The reason why we embed video clips here is to keep
eyeballs on DV Info Net. Our goal is to retain traffic
instead of sending it elsewhere. Hope this helps,

No problem Chris, just felt like a heel posting a big embed. We go to that Drive In almost every weekend. Picture is terrible but it's just more fun that a regular movie.

Back to the NXcam folks, nothing to see here. :)

MAN i wish we still had a drive in in my town. Drive ins were definetly the BEST way to enjoy B-Movies.

Erik,
Drive-ins are the best. Too bad they are hard to find now. It seems they are making a comeback where there is cheap land and enough space. Great memories.

To keep this semi on topic, if this NXcam really is a leap beyond the EX3 in low light. I will be making another video of that Drive In. I wanna capture the feel of being there as good as I can, without making the owner mad of course. :)

Also, I can't imagine how this thing will be held!! It's not designed for handheld that's for sure. Even with the grip if it will be awkward to say the least! Just make a damn camera Sony.. :)

Dear Friends,

I recommend that we do not judge this camera by this early mockup.

It will certainly change before it is ready for sale.

Here are some pictures of the prototype camera with a Zeiss zoom beside it.

Sony F3 and NXCAM 35 at InterBEE Japan Film and Digital Times: News (http://www.fdtimes.com/news/zeiss/sony-f3-and-nxcam-35-at-interbeee-japan/)

I like the idea of a modular camera. Perhaps the hand grip is reversible so that it sticks forwards or backwards (there's no rocker to stop you from doing this). Add a shoulder mount and viewfinder and you have a shoulder mount camera with the hand grip out beside the lens. Strip it down and you have a great camera for jibs or stedicams. With a short lens, twist the handgrip backwards and just use the LCD and you have a handycam. If as rumoured and certainly not denied by Sony this is using the same sensor as the F3 it should be rather good.

Al in Philip Bloom's video the Sony rep said straight up, it was the same sensor. Are you saying he could be wrong?

A few days ago I asked the US Marketing Manager for Production at Sony Electronics if the NXCAM would have the same sensor as the F3, and he said that at this time he couldn't confirm that it did.

Well as long as it follows the same design, the large format low resolution chip. Although if they copied that much why not just use the same chip?

If it uses a large pixel count, small photosite chip, this means nothing to me and will just be another camera.

EDIT, I watched the Bloom video again. Not only does the Rep say it's the same as the F3 he answers follow up questions. Bloom was asking about 24p in Europe and the Rep said, well that is what the F3 is for. Implying directly it was function and not so much the sensor that separated the two.

At least that how I read it.

Hello,

I know we are still in the very early stages of the NXCAM, but do you think it will have in-camera IS to make the best use of the Alpha lenses?

Thanks.

In camera IS with 35mm sensor. that would be interesting and one of the first.

Someone over at another forum said he was at an event and the Sony Rep said it was a "similar" S35 sensor to the F3.. The word similar in spooky quotes. Hopefully similar means "exactly the same".

I've seen the Bloom interview. The rep said same sensor but that could have meant same size sensor, not exactly the same sensor. Of course Philip is not a journalist to make the clarification. As I had stated earlier, the price difference indicates similar but not exactly the same sensor. Of course by the time this baby is delivered, a lot of things can change even the sensor.

About time for more news...

Peek, no post | crews.tv (http://crews.tv/blog/2010/12/14/more-s35-nxcamfun-from-sony/)

Alongside the buttons, the most noticeable visible features in the new production design image are a big EX3-like viewfinder mounted on the top. There is also a top-handle handle mounted toward the front which serves as a mounting point for a mic – it seems to be designed to shift forward and back, possibly to assist in the balance of the camera.

With Sony’s pretty tight hold on the images, for now you’ll just have to take our word for it, this camera looks and sounds – from the tidbits we were given – unique.

Here’s what we were told:

* Super35mm CMOS sensor – the same physical sensor as the F3.
* Sony E-Mount lens mount- with adaptors for numerous stills lenses.
* Shipping “Mid 2011″
* Probable formal launch at NAB 2011.
* Price indication NZ$7,500 (say US$5’625 – US$6,000 or so depending on your exchange rate assumptions) excluding tax, putting it in within a few hundred dollars of the Panasonic AF100.

Very good news! The viewfinder is particularly interesting, as it appears the camera can now be semi-shoulder mounted, like the EX3. Plus, if it's identical to the EX3 viewfinder, that makes it one of the best on any camera. We can't be sure yet, but of all the large sensor cams, this cam may be the best for hand-held shooting.

This is why I didn't pre-order an AF100. I'll wait to see what's available come Summer 2011.

Erik:

Thank you for sharing these infos.

Glen:

I am also in the 'searching for a new, near perfect camera' project, but for me this cam is a big dissapointment.

Coupe of random ideas:

- mid 2011 can mean May, or even October. Lets add couple of months of delays, and we are already in December. Then Sony will release couple of low res and overcompressed videos on their website, so it is better to get info, user experience and sample videos from real users. Lets add another 3-6 months. After all we are in 2012 Q2 then, and I am sure that by that time another 2-3 new camera will be introduced.

(I am already said that I really don't like the marketing of the camera makers ?)

- still there is no information about the auto modes (af, iso, etc), if there is any zoom rocker, what kind of Image Stabilisation is inside the camera. As I also want to use if as a handheld camcorder, without this informations it is hard to decide

- the Sony E mount is a joke. The only usefull-like lems is the SEL 18200, which gaves 'below average' quality picture, very strange bokeh (as the test videos shows).

- the E mount lenses made for the NEX serie has only zoom and focus wheel. Where are the iris, etc wheels ? We need a proper zoom lens.

- I guess it will be AVCHD camcorder. For serious jobs, still the XDCAM 35/50 Mbit/s video is the standard. I know that AF100 has avchd, and some people like it, but based on the test videos I can tell I am not impressed

- It is overpriced, like the latest canon xf100 (and of course xf300 is overprices, too)

- The price difference between this cam and the F3 is a very serious question. If the sensor will be the same, and all the IQ will be the same (assume this cam will be pro modell), and PL mount adapters will be ready soon hopefully, then what will Sony will leave out from F3 techique / IQ, to sell it about half price (as this cam will be 6K USD) ?

Is is so hard to ask any camera maker to impress us with a medium priced, quality camera ?

I'm not familiar with E-mount so I can't really tell ya. Seems worse case you get an adapter and go full manual with a 3rd party lens right? Not saying that is ideal but I think a lot of pros try to use full manual most of the time anyway.

I do wonder what Sony is going to do to keep this camera from looking as good as the F3. Just seems un-Sony to make two cameras that can produce the same image but one is half the price. I know all those connections on the back of the F3 make a lot of things possible but still.

I don't like AVCHD only because of the horsepower it takes to even watch it. I know a lot of people transcode to something more friendly to a NLE but Xdcam EX has made me so lazy. I can just drop the mxf files in Vegas and go at it. I will not be able to do that with 24mbps AVC, as stout as my computer is that would slow things to a crawl. So I either live with it or hope the NX has HS SDI and buy a nano.

I love the EX3, and it's deep DOF. I am personally completely annoyed with the out of focus look that has overcome every video on Vimeo these days. I'm really only looking at the NX, or F3 for that matter, for the signal to noise ratio and the awesome low light.

Is there any confirmation if this camera will have on SDI out and Genlock? If it does it may be great when coupled with a NF or similar recorder.

Hello,

I use a Z7, and at night in the city I can, with confidence, use 6 or 9db, and still like the images. Now I realize that the 1/3 chips are on the low end of market. Looking to do a feature shoot with a lot of night shoots on city streets, run and gun.

Assuming the 35mm NXCAM is being equipped with Sony alpha 1.4-2.0 lenses, how does that measure up?

I understand it's basically theory at this point, with this camera.

Frankly, if that set up doesn't absolutely blow my Z7 out of the water, I don't know if it would be worth losing the ENG style capability for run and gun.

Any help would be great.

William

Since we're just talking theory at this point and, ultimately, implementation will tell the real story, larger sensors tend to be better in low light. Couple that with a fast lens and it could well blow the Z7 out of the water.

For example, even with all the problems HDSLRs have with video, one thing they do shine with, is low light performance.

- the Sony E mount is a joke. The only usefull-like lems is the SEL 18200, which gaves 'below average' quality picture, very strange bokeh (as the test videos shows).

- the E mount lenses made for the NEX serie has only zoom and focus wheel. Where are the iris, etc wheels ? We need a proper zoom lens.

the E mount is just a mount. What it does having going for it is a very short flange back distance. This makes it very easy to adapt to other mounts and may prove to be significant when it comes to zoom lenses as it's easier to produce a zoom with a short flange back than a long one.

If your expecting a 10x or more, servo zoom lens for a s35mm sensor then be prepared to have very deep pockets. The bigger the sensor, the harder it is to make a decent zoom, even harder to make a fast one.

- The price difference between this cam and the F3 is a very serious question. If the sensor will be the same, and all the IQ will be the same (assume this cam will be pro modell), and PL mount adapters will be ready soon hopefully, then what will Sony will leave out from F3 techique / IQ, to sell it about half price (as this cam will be 6K USD) ?

The sensors might well be the same, but image quality is not just down to the sensor. It's also dependant on the way the signal is processed. It is conceivable that the 35mm NX could have a better image than the F3, but the reverse is more likely.

Currently 10 x zooms S35 zooms are expensive compared to the cost of this camera and they definitely don't have any auto functions. They are also big.

In the future, there may be lower cost 10 x zooms, but past experience shows it takes time for these to come out. You can't expect complete low cost systems to come straight away.

I don't see why people are going crazy for 35mm sensor run and cameras, there are so many practical problems. Keep that for 2/3" and smaller, those cameras are great for that type of operation.